Estonia and Finland integrate coastal missile systems and increase NATO activity which is worrying Russia

athenasius

Well-Known Member
I agree. Two reasons immediately spring to my mind.

1 is being the dispensations which @Spartan Sprinter 1 mentions. God is either dealing with Israel OR the church, there is very little overlap. Something that Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum brought out in a YTube sermon Jan 8 this year, in a live stream put out by Grace Bible Chapel of San Antonio.

The PRIMARY purpose of this whole Ezek 38-39 event is to reach out to ISRAEL to bring them back to knowledge and belief in God. It's a process-- and it's part of the purpose of the Tribulation.

My opinion is that this and Isaiah 17 (Destruction of Damascus) are the beginnings of God dealing with Israel's unbelief. I think they are linked but that is just speculation on my part.

Romans 11:25-26 says it is the Rapture which allows the scales to fall from their eyes, and these events begin their journey thru the Tribulation.

Romans 11: 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved.


My second reason being the way God says that He will make HIS name known among the nations. This is HIGHLY significant in my opinion because if we were still here, there's at least a few Christians even in the invasion forces (conscripted) and certainly around the world. We are conspicuous by our ABSENCE. Here's the list and if I haven't missed any it adds up to 6--the number of man usually referring to his fallen state.

SIX TIMES God mentions the nations and their lack of knowledge of HIM.

Ez 38:23 "23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’"

Ez 39: 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.

Ez 39: 7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

Ez 39:21 “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them.

Ez 39:23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword.

Ez 39:27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
Well said athanasius that's partly why imo at the ezekiel war the feast of Trumpets become prophecy and the Muslim religion will be destroyed. Also why such as Andy Woods is wrong on these chapters of the Bible, the rapture will happen around this prophecy, so keep watching I repeat its just my opinion.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
My second reason being the way God says that He will make HIS name known among the nations. This is HIGHLY significant in my opinion because if we were still here, there's at least a few Christians even in the invasion forces (conscripted) and certainly around the world. We are conspicuous by our ABSENCE. Here's the list and if I haven't missed any it adds up to 6--the number of man usually referring to his fallen state.

SIX TIMES God mentions the nations and their lack of knowledge of HIM.
I didn't properly finish this thought.

The reason it's significant is that if Christians are here, sprinkled around the planet like we are, God wouldn't say that the nations lacked knowledge of Him because we would be there-- in each country even the most muslim ones. There are Christians everywhere. Till we are removed.

The fact that God is making Himself KNOWN among the nations (goyim- gentiles) is because nobody is left among the nations who knows Him. God still wants people to get saved, both Jew and Gentile during the post Rapture period (emphasis is now on the Jews).

This places Ez 38 & 39 AFTER the Rapture in my opinion.

But NOT LONG after the Rapture because people will start getting saved right away. For God to say the nations don't know Him means that we are gone and the post Rapture saints haven't started getting saved in any big numbers yet.

I also think there is a gap of time after the Rapture but before the AC signs the covenant with Israel. That signing of the covenant is what kicks off the Tribulation. Not the Rapture. The Rapture removes the Restrainer which allows the AC to emerge.

The sequence of events in my opinion is:

1: Rapture removes the whole Church living and dead. The Holy Spirit lifts His Restrainer action thru the Church when she is gone.

2: The Gog Magog war happens sometime after the Rapture.

3: The AC begins to emerge in public. This maybe minutes to months.

4: The AC makes that covenant that starts the Tribulation.
 
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athenasius

Well-Known Member
A thought has suddenly come to me and could the church be given a warning so that a last push for evangelism happen especially those that are watching this start to come together, that would be awesome, getting all tingling just thinking about it.

well apparently the Bible says we see the day approaching, so we have to have some idea of the nearness of the Rapture, not in specifics but a general sense that it's soon, getting more and more urgent all the time. So yes, I think we are in that stage now-- more attention to evangelism in the part of the church that is watching and waiting for the Rapture.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
I didn't properly finish this thought.

The reason it's significant is that if Christians are here, sprinkled around the planet like we are, God wouldn't say that the nations lacked knowledge of Him because we would be there-- in each country even the most muslim ones. There are Christians everywhere. Till we are removed.

The fact that God is making Himself KNOWN among the nations (goyim- gentiles) is because nobody is left among the nations who knows Him. God still wants people to get saved, both Jew and Gentile during the post Rapture period (emphasis is now on the Jews).

This places Ez 38 & 39 AFTER the Rapture in my opinion.

But NOT LONG after the Rapture because people will start getting saved right away. For God to say the nations don't know Him means that we are gone and the post Rapture saints haven't started getting saved in any big numbers yet.

I also think there is a gap of time after the Rapture but before the AC signs the covenant with Israel. That signing of the covenant is what kicks off the Tribulation. Not the Rapture. The Rapture removes the Restrainer which allows the AC to emerge.

The sequence of events in my opinion is:

1: Rapture removes the whole Church living and dead. The Holy Spirit lifts His Restrainer action thru the Church when she is gone.

2: The Gog Magog war happens sometime after the Rapture.

3: The AC begins to emerge in public. This maybe minutes to months.

4: The AC makes that covenant that starts the Tribulation.
This is an interesting conjecture as most commentators suggest that when the Rapture occurs then the first Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse occur in somewhat rapid succession after the Rapture. However, there are some "timing" problems with this view. I just read an interesting opinion today on another website that suggests their is a dual prophecy "hidden" in the Revelation. Here is a quote from that article:

"Many (including the author) believe the first horseman of Revelation 6 is the Antichrist. Because the Seal Judgments of Revelation 6 are the beginning of judgments, they conclude Antichrist will immediately sign the covenant and ride into power as a man of peace. However, in the Bible there are many prophecies with double bearing. For example, Isaiah was given a prophetic sign for his generation, but the prophecy also extended to and was fully fulfilled by Christ‟s first advent (Is. 7:14-16). The King of Tyre was warned of his demise in Ezekiel 28:12-19 but the prophecy also applied to Lucifer‟s fall, and will be entirely fulfilled when Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10). Therefore it is possible that the Antichrist will arise onto the world stage as a man of peace, then war will ensue, then he will confirm a global peace accord with Israel and the world, then more war and great tribulation will follow. A two stage promised peace period agrees with the prophetic double bearing found elsewhere in Scripture."

There were many "timing" arguments laid out in the article as to why a "gap" between the Rapture and the seven year tribulation is possible. The article suggested that the gap period plus the Tribulation would equal a total of ten years. This would equate to three years after the Rapture for the AC to rise to power, formation of the ten kingdoms, the implementation of the OWG, etc.

Here is the explanation from the article: (I haven't included all the details),

"The number seven is the most repeated and significant number in the Bible. Starting with the Creation week in Genesis, and found throughout the Bible culminating in the final Book (Revelation), seven represents completion, perfection, fullness.
The second most significant number in the Bible is ten. Examples include the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), the ten plagues (Exodus 7-11), and the final ten kings (Dan. 7:24; Rev. 13:1; 17:12). Here are some other examples:

“Because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice” (Numbers 14:22).

“Then it came about, after about ten days, that the LORD struck Nabal, and he died” (1 Samuel 25:38).

“These ten times you have reproached me; You are not ashamed that you have wronged me” (Job 19:3).

“So it was, when the Jews who dwelt near them came, that they told us ten times, „From whatever place you turn, they will be upon us‟” (Nehemiah 4:12).

“Please test your servants for ten days” (Daniel 1:12-15).

More examples include: Ten generations from Adam to Noah (Genesis 5); Laban changing Jacob‟s wages and testing him ten times (Genesis 31:7); a ten year famine and testing period for Naomi (Ruth 1:4-6); the disciples were commanded to wait ten days in Jerusalem until they were empowered by the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:49; Acts 1 & 2). See also: 1 Samuel 1:8; 1 Samuel 25:5.

From these examples we see the number ten can signify law, judgment, completeness, testing. How appropriate then if this age concluded with a ten year period of worldwide testing and judgment in parallel with a seven year testing of Israel.

"A potential problem to this 3 year gap theory is the first horseman of Revelation 6. Many (including the author) believe the first horseman of Revelation 6 is the Antichrist. Because the Seal Judgments of Revelation 6 are the beginning of judgments, they conclude Antichrist will immediately sign the covenant and ride into power as a man of peace. However, in the Bible there are many prophecies with double bearing. For example, Isaiah was given a prophetic sign for his generation, but the prophecy also extended to and was fully fulfilled by Christ‟s first advent (Is. 7:14-16). The King of Tyre was warned of his demise in Ezekiel 28:12-19 but the prophecy also applied to Lucifer‟s fall, and will be entirely fulfilled when Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10). Therefore it is possible that the Antichrist will arise onto the world stage as a man of peace, then war will ensue, then he will confirm a global peace accord with Israel and the world, then more war and great tribulation will follow. A two stage promised peace period agrees with the prophetic double bearing found elsewhere in Scripture."

The season is close! Look up, our Blessed Hope Comes Soon. Maranatha!
 
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ItIsFinished!

Blood bought child of the King of kings.
This is an interesting conjecture as most commentators suggest that when the Rapture occurs then the first Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse occur in somewhat rapid succession after the Rapture. However, there are some "timing" problems with this view. I just read an interesting opinion today on another website that suggests their is a dual prophecy "hidden" in the Revelation. Here is a quote from that article:

"Many (including the author) believe the first horseman of Revelation 6 is the Antichrist. Because the Seal Judgments of Revelation 6 are the beginning of judgments, they conclude Antichrist will immediately sign the covenant and ride into power as a man of peace. However, in the Bible there are many prophecies with double bearing. For example, Isaiah was given a prophetic sign for his generation, but the prophecy also extended to and was fully fulfilled by Christ‟s first advent (Is. 7:14-16). The King of Tyre was warned of his demise in Ezekiel 28:12-19 but the prophecy also applied to Lucifer‟s fall, and will be entirely fulfilled when Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10). Therefore it is possible that the Antichrist will arise onto the world stage as a man of peace, then war will ensue, then he will confirm a global peace accord with Israel and the world, then more war and great tribulation will follow. A two stage promised peace period agrees with the prophetic double bearing found elsewhere in Scripture."

There were many "timing" arguments laid out in the article as to why a "gap" between the Rapture and the seven year tribulation is possible. The article suggested that the gap period plus the Tribulation would equal a total of ten years. This would equate to three years after the Rapture for the AC to rise to power, formation of the ten kingdoms, the implementation of the OWG, etc.

Here is the explanation from the article: (I haven't included all the details),

"The number seven is the most repeated and significant number in the Bible. Starting with the Creation week in Genesis, and found throughout the Bible culminating in the final Book (Revelation), seven represents completion, perfection, fullness.
The second most significant number in the Bible is ten. Examples include the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), the ten plagues (Exodus 7-11), and the final ten kings (Dan. 7:24; Rev. 13:1; 17:12). Here are some other examples:

“Because all these men who have seen My glory and the signs which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not heeded My voice” (Numbers 14:22).

“Then it came about, after about ten days, that the LORD struck Nabal, and he died” (1 Samuel 25:38).

“These ten times you have reproached me; You are not ashamed that you have wronged me” (Job 19:3).

“So it was, when the Jews who dwelt near them came, that they told us ten times, „From whatever place you turn, they will be upon us‟” (Nehemiah 4:12).

“Please test your servants for ten days” (Daniel 1:12-15).

More examples include: Ten generations from Adam to Noah (Genesis 5); Laban changing Jacob‟s wages and testing him ten times (Genesis 31:7); a ten year famine and testing period for Naomi (Ruth 1:4-6); the disciples were commanded to wait ten days in Jerusalem until they were empowered by the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:49; Acts 1 & 2). See also: 1 Samuel 1:8; 1 Samuel 25:5.

From these examples we see the number ten can signify law, judgment, completeness, testing. How appropriate then if this age concluded with a ten year period of worldwide testing and judgment in parallel with a seven year testing of Israel."

The season is close! Look up, our Blessed Hope Comes Soon. Marantha!
Who is the author ?
You came back and edited your post after the author was requested , but still didn't provide the authors name.
Why not provide the author in the first place?
If one deems the information worth providing
then one should provide the name of the author attatched to said information .
Doesn't make any sense at all not to.
:tappingfoot
 
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Jaybird

Well-Known Member
I went back to the PDF I downloaded to look for the the author's name and it is not mentioned on the article. I added some new information to my post and then looked at the website I downloaded the article from looking for a name. No luck, then I went to bed.

I know the administrators prefer that we not post links so I have not. I can copy the entire article and cite the website I downloaded it from or post the link to the site (there are other articles).

Chris, what is your preference?
 

Círeth

Purry, roary, one.
I agree. Two reasons immediately spring to my mind.

1 is being the dispensations which @Spartan Sprinter 1 mentions. God is either dealing with Israel OR the church, there is very little overlap. Something that Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum brought out in a YTube sermon Jan 8 this year, in a live stream put out by Grace Bible Chapel of San Antonio.

The PRIMARY purpose of this whole Ezek 38-39 event is to reach out to ISRAEL to bring them back to knowledge and belief in God. It's a process-- and it's part of the purpose of the Tribulation.

My opinion is that this and Isaiah 17 (Destruction of Damascus) are the beginnings of God dealing with Israel's unbelief. I think they are linked but that is just speculation on my part.

Romans 11:25-26 says it is the Rapture which allows the scales to fall from their eyes, and these events begin their journey thru the Tribulation.

Romans 11: 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved.


My second reason being the way God says that He will make HIS name known among the nations. This is HIGHLY significant in my opinion because if we were still here, there's at least a few Christians even in the invasion forces (conscripted) and certainly around the world. We are conspicuous by our ABSENCE. Here's the list and if I haven't missed any it adds up to 6--the number of man usually referring to his fallen state.

SIX TIMES God mentions the nations and their lack of knowledge of HIM.

Ez 38:23 "23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’"

Ez 39: 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.

Ez 39: 7 “‘I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

Ez 39:21 “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them.

Ez 39:23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword.

Ez 39:27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations.
You make really excellent points amd I can't fault your logic.

Previously I always thought those were pre-rapture as one final great big "Wake up Humanity!!!" call before we go.

Pants. Pants. Pants!!!

I wanted to see those prophecies happen and the world fall in awe at God's feet after it did.

I don't suppose we'll see what's going on on Earth post-rapture?
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
I can't see the tribulation starting immediately after the rapture, the key imo is the signing of the 7yr peace treaty with Israel we would have to be still here for that to happen, so it's the rapture, ezekiel war, signing of peace treaty and tribulation with space between each one, days or weeks either one difficult to say.
 

Jaybird

Well-Known Member
I can't see the tribulation starting immediately after the rapture, the key imo is the signing of the 7yr peace treaty with Israel we would have to be still here for that to happen, so it's the rapture, ezekiel war, signing of peace treaty and tribulation with space between each one, days or weeks either one difficult to say.
When you look at the timing of what needs to happen in rather quick succession it doesn't add up. This is why there has to be a "gap" of 1 to 3 years. The Tribulation plus the gap could be anywhere from a total of 8 to 10 years. We see the stage being set right now for the apparatus of the OWG and perhaps they will move into position more quickly then we anticipate. However, the major events we know about must happen and seven years is not enough time.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
You make really excellent points amd I can't fault your logic.

Previously I always thought those were pre-rapture as one final great big "Wake up Humanity!!!" call before we go.

Pants. Pants. Pants!!!

I wanted to see those prophecies happen and the world fall in awe at God's feet after it did.

I don't suppose we'll see what's going on on Earth post-rapture?
@Círeth so good to see you! Big hugs sister! Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more convinced I was that Gog Magog for one had to be post Rapture and pre Trib even by a short little bit makes sense. I know there's no problem about the burning of weapons in the Millennium-- Babylon's remains will continue to smoke the whole 1000 years but I keep coming up with the problem that the Jews on the run from the AC in the last half won't have time to supervise the burning of the weapons, and a few of them would be likely to rescue a weapon or two from the burn pile and use it on the AC.

So I keep coming back to the concept of a few days/months/ even a couple of years between the Rapture which is the tipping point for the left behind world. The Restrainer is removed, and evil everywhere that had been held back like holding back a dam that has already ruptured--and the restraint is suddenly removed.

I think that is when all the plots and plans of the globalists and of the various power players on the world scene will suddenly "work". And chaos will be everywhere.

The AC begins to arise in public. Gog Magog happens-- and likely Isaiah 17 as God and Israel renew their covenant relationship. The Eurocrats take advantage of the loss of Russian power to take the spotlight. Israel is the other major power left standing. The AC may even make his deal with Israel thinking that Israel can help him come to the forefront of the 10 nations. It's speculative. We might see things begin just as we get taken out and the loss of the Restraining action of the Holy Spirit may tip the whole mess into overdrive.
 

Círeth

Purry, roary, one.
@Círeth so good to see you! Big hugs sister! Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more convinced I was that Gog Magog for one had to be post Rapture and pre Trib even by a short little bit makes sense. I know there's no problem about the burning of weapons in the Millennium-- Babylon's remains will continue to smoke the whole 1000 years but I keep coming up with the problem that the Jews on the run from the AC in the last half won't have time to supervise the burning of the weapons, and a few of them would be likely to rescue a weapon or two from the burn pile and use it on the AC.

So I keep coming back to the concept of a few days/months/ even a couple of years between the Rapture which is the tipping point for the left behind world. The Restrainer is removed, and evil everywhere that had been held back like holding back a dam that has already ruptured--and the restraint is suddenly removed.

I think that is when all the plots and plans of the globalists and of the various power players on the world scene will suddenly "work". And chaos will be everywhere.

The AC begins to arise in public. Gog Magog happens-- and likely Isaiah 17 as God and Israel renew their covenant relationship. The Eurocrats take advantage of the loss of Russian power to take the spotlight. Israel is the other major power left standing. The AC may even make his deal with Israel thinking that Israel can help him come to the forefront of the 10 nations. It's speculative. We might see things begin just as we get taken out and the loss of the Restraining action of the Holy Spirit may tip the whole mess into overdrive.
Thank you. Hugs much appreciated. Hugs to you, too. (Edit: Mobile phones are silly.)
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
@Círeth so good to see you! Big hugs sister! Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more convinced I was that Gog Magog for one had to be post Rapture and pre Trib even by a short little bit makes sense. I know there's no problem about the burning of weapons in the Millennium-- Babylon's remains will continue to smoke the whole 1000 years but I keep coming up with the problem that the Jews on the run from the AC in the last half won't have time to supervise the burning of the weapons, and a few of them would be likely to rescue a weapon or two from the burn pile and use it on the AC.

So I keep coming back to the concept of a few days/months/ even a couple of years between the Rapture which is the tipping point for the left behind world. The Restrainer is removed, and evil everywhere that had been held back like holding back a dam that has already ruptured--and the restraint is suddenly removed.

I think that is when all the plots and plans of the globalists and of the various power players on the world scene will suddenly "work". And chaos will be everywhere.

The AC begins to arise in public. Gog Magog happens-- and likely Isaiah 17 as God and Israel renew their covenant relationship. The Eurocrats take advantage of the loss of Russian power to take the spotlight. Israel is the other major power left standing. The AC may even make his deal with Israel thinking that Israel can help him come to the forefront of the 10 nations. It's speculative. We might see things begin just as we get taken out and the loss of the Restraining action of the Holy Spirit may tip the whole mess into overdrive.
Good one athanasius.
 

daygo

Well-Known Member
I totally agree. The timing of these events is the issue. The actual Tribulation is seven years in duration, but the events that lead up to the Tribulation could take months or a few years. I hope we are out of here before all that "you know what" hits the fan. Come quickly Lord Jesus!
Wondering if after the ezekiel war it's 7yrs for the burning of weapons then the tribulation.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
Wondering if after the ezekiel war it's 7yrs for the burning of weapons then the tribulation.
Could well be.

A lot of the bible scholars who look at this after the rapture before the tribulation scenario (not Andy Woods but people like Bill Salus and I think Mark Hitchcock and Ron Rhodes talk about a 3.5 year gap or so from the rapture and before the Trib starts so that the burning of weapons is finished by that critical half way point into the 7 years.

That allows the weapons to finish burning, just before the Jews have to run for it as the AC turns on them, does the the Abomination of Desolation and kills the 2 witnesses.

So while they run to Petra, they aren't burning weapons and God is their sole source of supply, safety etc in Petra or wherever it is that God directs them to go.

I think it will be a re run of the miraculous escape from Pharoah and manna in the wilderness. This time it will be the escape from the AC, and God I think will be providing food and water and likely stopping their clothes and shoes from wearing out, just as He did before.

Bookends of Jewish history. The great escapes, meeting with God in the wilderness, Who meets all their needs.
 
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