Are there carnal Christians?

RonJohnSilver

Well-Known Member
This question came up at our Bible Study group. A member was referencing an author who said that there were two ways to 'categorize' or see unproductive 'believers'. First, they had basically lost their faith due to sin or abandonment or that they were never saved in the first place. I think these two extremes are part of the Calvinist/Arminian belief systems. A third view, though, is of casual or carnal Christians, those who are legitimate Christians but, for whatever reason, have never produced any fruit. That's what this one author believes.
The group, as a whole, rejects the possibility of losing one's salvation, so that's out. The problem is that, while most of us didn't believe the 'never been saved' argument, we couldn't find good verses or examples to refute it. So, that's our dilemma. We believe that there are such things as 'carnal' Christians, but we're having trouble proving it with scripture or examples. Can anyone help?
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
This question came up at our Bible Study group. A member was referencing an author who said that there were two ways to 'categorize' or see unproductive 'believers'. First, they had basically lost their faith due to sin or abandonment or that they were never saved in the first place. I think these two extremes are part of the Calvinist/Arminian belief systems. A third view, though, is of casual or carnal Christians, those who are legitimate Christians but, for whatever reason, have never produced any fruit. That's what this one author believes.
The group, as a whole, rejects the possibility of losing one's salvation, so that's out. The problem is that, while most of us didn't believe the 'never been saved' argument, we couldn't find good verses or examples to refute it. So, that's our dilemma. We believe that there are such things as 'carnal' Christians, but we're having trouble proving it with scripture or examples. Can anyone help?
Hope these scriptures help. https://www.openbible.info/topics/carnal_christian
 

greg64

Well-Known Member
Pretty much all of 1 Corinthians speaks to this. They were doing all kinds of bad things there yet Paul called them saints and accepted them as believers. I've heard Andy Woods speak on this several times, but don't have a reference handy.

A few I recently read come to mind:

1 Corinthians 3:1-4

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (especially verse 11)
 

Everlasting Life

Through Faith in Jesus
Pretty much all of 1 Corinthians speaks to this. They were doing all kinds of bad things there yet Paul called them saints and accepted them as believers. I've heard Andy Woods speak on this several times, but don't have a reference handy.

A few I recently read come to mind:

1 Corinthians 3:1-4

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (especially verse 11)

Yes, he sometimes calls the books 1st and 2nd Californians.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
We believe that there are such things as 'carnal' Christians, but we're having trouble proving it with scripture or examples. Can anyone help?
May I suggest Lot? He is the scriptural picture of a carnal believer, the carnality is plainly shown in the Old Testament; the fact he was a true believer is shown in the New. I don't know it's it will help, but if you are interested, the case is laid out in a 2014 article on RF: "Carnal Christians: Is There Such a Thing?" https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/carnal-christians-is-there-such-a-thing.88506/
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
I think all Chriatians have at times, probably more often than not, been carnal.

Jack Kelley, as usual, IMO, nails it:

From our brother Jack, who now resides with Him:

“The Greek word translated “carnal” in Romans 8:7 is usually translated “flesh” in the King James and “sinful” or “sin nature” in other translations. It’s described as “the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.” The phrase is often used to describe Christians who in the opinion of others are living in a sinful manner.

All humans are prone to sin because we all have a “sin nature”. And remember, sin is not just a matter of external behavior. It also permeates our very thoughts. So all it takes are carnal thoughts to be a carnal Christian. Therefore, every Christian is a carnal Christian to some degree, and will be until the rapture, when our sin nature will be removed.

If only those people who have given up every part of their will to Christ are saved then Heaven will be a very lonely place. Surveys show that the vast majority of those who call themselves born again Christians today live lives that for the most part are indistinguishable from their unbelieving neighbors. Fortunately, our salvation is based on what we believe, not on how we behave (John 6:28-29).

God in His mercy has forgiven all of our sins and because we believe that when Jesus went to the cross He paid the penalty that was due us, He no longer counts our sins against us (Colossians 2:13-14). So the old bumper sticker is true. “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven.”

https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/carnal-christians/
 

lightofmylife

Blessed Hope-Prepare To Fly!
Between our flesh nature which is not born again, and the battle with :diablo we have temptations. Galatians 5 tells us to walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The flesh and Spirit war :pirateduel against each other. Notice the blue hat for the Dems, and the red hat for the Repubs.
 
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Andy C

Well-Known Member
Greetings
if I may
is the carnal mind is enmity with Christian
Is a carnal person a spiritually immature Christian or the mind of an infant?
Only to those of mature faith can he impart God's wisdom
let's see what is to be carnal mind

Because the carnal mind (the thoughts of men) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to (Divine) laws of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:7 (KJV)

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal and walk as men?
1 Cor 3:3 (KJV)

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1 Cor 3:4 (KJV)

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1 Cor 9:11 (KJV)

For whether we are beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we are sober, it is for your cause.
2 Cor 5:13 (KJV)

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2 Tim 1:7 (KJV)


For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; (for man's laws) it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:5-8 (NKJV)

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
Romans 7:18-19 (NKJV)
I understand the scripture you posted, but I dont understand the point you were trying to make, or if you even believe a true, born again Christian can be carnal?
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
I am confused by a lot of these posts... Is it a bot, troll, or real seeking person? Everything seems so cryptic... Very odd.

I've wondered if maybe English in this case is a 2nd language. The posts just don't tie together but are like a hodge podge of thoughts that seem often unrelated to each other. Maybe somebody is testing a new AI bot to see how well it interacts.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
As a native Californian, I regret that my original home has become so screwy, however, my sister always reminded me that while California had the reputation, we natives knew that Oregon was the real home of the fruits, nuts and flakes.
As a native and former resident of CA, and now Oregon, I must be a be a bowl of raisin bran with nuts and strawberries on top..:biggrin

I moved out of CA in 1993, and later moved to Oregon in 2017. However, even this easy going man has had enough, and will soon move back to NC
 

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
You might ask MattFiveFour he used to live there, and athenasius she does. :bouncies
:bouncies:bouncies:bouncies:bouncies:bouncies

Your post is giving me a headache for some reason... must be my allergy to Yucateco red habanero sauce. I can't ask either of those two, their impressions of Canadians are probably jaded... I've spent some time going up and down the Alaska Highway. Most of the people I've come across were probably a wee bit carnal. I got stranded in Watson Lake, Yukon once. I had been trying to get through Canada without having to get any Canadian currency. I told some church goers my predicament... I think they thought I was asking them for a little charity but I was just sharing my predicament. They became scarce real fast, but one did suggest I find an ATM. Stupid me, I hadn't considered that and fortunately I had my ATM card that I probably hadn't used in over a decade... It worked and I found myself with a pocket full of loonies. I got stranded on a Friday afternoon and it turned out there was a Canadian holiday that weekend so I had to stay until Tuesday morning before I could find someone to do a repair. Then on my way back through I got stranded in Watson Lake again. Same thing, Friday afternoon and that weekend had a Canadian holiday... The reason I needed cash when I got stranded was because western Canadians for the most part want to be paid with cash... no receipt involved. That's the only way they can avoid the high socialist taxes their oppressive govmint demands of them.
 
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Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
As a native and former resident of CA, and now Oregon, I must be a be a bowl of raisin bran with nuts and strawberries on top..:biggrin

I moved out of CA in 1993, and later moved to Oregon in 2017. However, even this easy going man has had enough, and will soon move back to NC
On a side note Andy i must say i woukld die to compete in an athletics meet in Oregon , the new track they have built down there is producing some mega fast times and records for the college athletes and even the professional ones
 

Spartan Sprinter 1

Formerly known as Shaun
To add to Andy's post about Jack Kelley's opinion on carnal christians i also remember Jack saying that we do not lose our salvation, however , we do fall out of fellowship with the Lord on this earth while we don't confess our sins and that it leaves us more prone to the enemies attack in our lives.
 
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