pythons
Member
Everlasting Life,
Thanks for the welcome!
Yes, the SDA's do 'diminish' Jesus in a very specific way that dove-tails into their historic anti-Trinitarian beginnings.
Ellen White initially was a Methodist (Trinitarian) however she started dating & subsequently married James White - who was a militant anti-Trinitarian. In the process of Ellen being bedded down and bred by James Ellen changed her views and allegedly started having anti-Trinitarian visions and proclivities to feverishly promote anti-Trinity rhetoric - which she did.
To understand the SDA mindset one must 1st understand "The Great Controversy Theme". Ellen White wrote a book called "The Great Controversy" which, for the most part, encapsulates SDA theology and process. Basically "The Theme" described by Ellen is that.
A)
After Adam & Eve eat of the forbidden fruit & get expelled from Eden Lucifer the archangel makes a "legal charge" against God that nobody could follow His Laws, that He was too strict with Adam & Eve, was too ham handed with them, etc. Lucifer promulgated this legal charge both throughout the angelic ranks AND published the charge to all the Alien planets throughout the Galaxy - angels and aliens were whispering - could this be true - is God unreasonable and too difficult?
B)
God was NOW in a real pickle - hauled into Galactic court on trumped up charges by Lucifer the archangel - SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE.
C)
Michael the archangel steps forward and volunteers to "RISK IT ALL" and be born as a human with "concupiscence" to attempt to eek out Salvation for mankind. IF Michael fails Father God will see to it that Michael is smitten and annihilated eternally. If Michael makes it he will become the Christ. Thus, Michael came to earth to "VINDICATE GOD'S HOLY LAW" proving that God is fair & just, essentially proving to the Galaxy that Lucifer is a liar, the Father of Lies.
The total fight from beginning to end IS "The Great Controversy" and the "Theme" is simply understanding why Michael came to earth and the terrible risks he accepted by volunteering for the mission. Understanding this helps to understand where the SDA's are coming from and why they see everything the way they do. To be honest if I believed in the GC Theme I would believe like they do.
Here are a few examples of what I'm illustrating.
Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples.
Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.--Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. ("Notes of Work," Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}
Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}
Ellen participated in Michaels work of vindication.
Ellen White
Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil's purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. God has spared my life that I may present the testimonies given me, to vindicate that which God vindicates, and to denounce every sophistry [intended] to deceive if possible the very elect.--Ms 126, 1905, pp. 3, 7. ("A Warning Against Present Dangers," typed December 29, 1905.) {5MR 144.1}
The SDA's view Ellen as a Prophet and as such her writings are a more clear set of instructions on those distinctive doctrines SDA adhere to. Ellen is believed to be God's actual PEN - this is why many SDA's refer to Sister White as "THE PEN OF INSPIRATION".
Ellen White
In ancient times God spoke through the mouths of prophets and apostles. In these days he speaks to them by the Testimonies of his Spirit" (Testimonies, Vol. 4, p. 148; Vol. 5., p. 661)
Ellen White
If you lessen the confidence of God's people in the testimonies he has sent them, you are rebelling against God as certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abirum" (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 66).
Ellen White
The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, NOT His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")
Ellen White
"God has set me as a reprover of His people; and just so surely as He has laid upon me the heavy burden, He will make those to whom this message is given responsible for the manner in which they treat it. God will not be trifled with, and those who despise His work will receive according to their deeds." (Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 679)
Unlike the Bible writers Ellen was allegedly provided with the specific words to use.
Ellen White
There are those who say, ‘Someone MANIPULATES her writings.’ I acknowledge the charge. It is One who is mighty in counsel, One who presents before me the condition of things” (1MR 30).
Ellen White
We MUST follow the directions given through the Spirit of Prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
When you speak with a fully trained Seventh-day Adventist its helpful to know these things (and a great many others) are solidly locked in their mind. As I've said earlier there are some great Christian men and women in the SDA Church - some really do accept the Trinity and reject the Arian creature Christ teaching of Ellen White - it's just that they are not very vocal about it.
Thanks for the welcome!
Yes, the SDA's do 'diminish' Jesus in a very specific way that dove-tails into their historic anti-Trinitarian beginnings.
Ellen White initially was a Methodist (Trinitarian) however she started dating & subsequently married James White - who was a militant anti-Trinitarian. In the process of Ellen being bedded down and bred by James Ellen changed her views and allegedly started having anti-Trinitarian visions and proclivities to feverishly promote anti-Trinity rhetoric - which she did.
To understand the SDA mindset one must 1st understand "The Great Controversy Theme". Ellen White wrote a book called "The Great Controversy" which, for the most part, encapsulates SDA theology and process. Basically "The Theme" described by Ellen is that.
A)
After Adam & Eve eat of the forbidden fruit & get expelled from Eden Lucifer the archangel makes a "legal charge" against God that nobody could follow His Laws, that He was too strict with Adam & Eve, was too ham handed with them, etc. Lucifer promulgated this legal charge both throughout the angelic ranks AND published the charge to all the Alien planets throughout the Galaxy - angels and aliens were whispering - could this be true - is God unreasonable and too difficult?
B)
God was NOW in a real pickle - hauled into Galactic court on trumped up charges by Lucifer the archangel - SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE.
C)
Michael the archangel steps forward and volunteers to "RISK IT ALL" and be born as a human with "concupiscence" to attempt to eek out Salvation for mankind. IF Michael fails Father God will see to it that Michael is smitten and annihilated eternally. If Michael makes it he will become the Christ. Thus, Michael came to earth to "VINDICATE GOD'S HOLY LAW" proving that God is fair & just, essentially proving to the Galaxy that Lucifer is a liar, the Father of Lies.
The total fight from beginning to end IS "The Great Controversy" and the "Theme" is simply understanding why Michael came to earth and the terrible risks he accepted by volunteering for the mission. Understanding this helps to understand where the SDA's are coming from and why they see everything the way they do. To be honest if I believed in the GC Theme I would believe like they do.
Here are a few examples of what I'm illustrating.
Ellen White
To be redeemed means to cease from sin. No heart that is stirred to rebellion against the law of God has any union with Christ, who died to vindicate the law and exalt it before all nations, tongues, and peoples.
Ellen White
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Christ did not come to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. He did not come to lessen the law of God in one particular. He came to express in His own person the love of God. He came to vindicate every precept of the holy law.--Ms 145, 1897, p. 4. ("Notes of Work," Dec. 30, 1897.) {11MR 345.3}
Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}
Ellen participated in Michaels work of vindication.
Ellen White
Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil's purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. God has spared my life that I may present the testimonies given me, to vindicate that which God vindicates, and to denounce every sophistry [intended] to deceive if possible the very elect.--Ms 126, 1905, pp. 3, 7. ("A Warning Against Present Dangers," typed December 29, 1905.) {5MR 144.1}
The SDA's view Ellen as a Prophet and as such her writings are a more clear set of instructions on those distinctive doctrines SDA adhere to. Ellen is believed to be God's actual PEN - this is why many SDA's refer to Sister White as "THE PEN OF INSPIRATION".
Ellen White
In ancient times God spoke through the mouths of prophets and apostles. In these days he speaks to them by the Testimonies of his Spirit" (Testimonies, Vol. 4, p. 148; Vol. 5., p. 661)
Ellen White
If you lessen the confidence of God's people in the testimonies he has sent them, you are rebelling against God as certainly as were Korah, Dathan and Abirum" (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 66).
Ellen White
The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, NOT His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")
Ellen White
"God has set me as a reprover of His people; and just so surely as He has laid upon me the heavy burden, He will make those to whom this message is given responsible for the manner in which they treat it. God will not be trifled with, and those who despise His work will receive according to their deeds." (Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 679)
Unlike the Bible writers Ellen was allegedly provided with the specific words to use.
Ellen White
There are those who say, ‘Someone MANIPULATES her writings.’ I acknowledge the charge. It is One who is mighty in counsel, One who presents before me the condition of things” (1MR 30).
Ellen White
We MUST follow the directions given through the Spirit of Prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
When you speak with a fully trained Seventh-day Adventist its helpful to know these things (and a great many others) are solidly locked in their mind. As I've said earlier there are some great Christian men and women in the SDA Church - some really do accept the Trinity and reject the Arian creature Christ teaching of Ellen White - it's just that they are not very vocal about it.