Gog-Magog invasion timing

cavalier973

Well-Known Member
Anything, in particular, that you find exasperating about Andy Woods? I am beginning to listen to him and I would love to know what you find 'concerning' about his teachings. I love listening to him although I do tend to find myself dozing off to his voice. He's a natural sleeping tablet which is fantastic.
Not concerning, necessarily. I don't charge him with false teaching, at all; but failure sometimes in being consistent.

The primary example I am thinking of is his sermon/lecture series on Revelation. He states early in the series that when you see a number recorded, then you take the number literally. When the letter to the church at Smyrna mentions that they will have tribulation for ten days, then it means ten days, not ten years or the reigns of ten Caesars, or the like. When it says that the Kingdom lasts for a thousand years, then it means a literal thousand years--it isn't a symbolic number meaning a very long time.

That's sound, and I agree. But, when he talks about the sealing of the 144,000, and notes that the Tribe of Dan isn't mentioned, he says that it isn't because Dan isn't sealed along with the others, but because John wants to keep it neat and clean with twelve tribes, because that is the idiom throughout the Bible--the "Twelve Tribes of Israel".

Which means that either the 144,000 number isnt literal--it is actually 156,000 Jews that are sealed; or, the "12,000 from each tribe" isnt literal, and there are less than 12,000 from each tribe sealed, with a portion of each tribe mentioned being actually members from the Tribe of Dan.
 

Belle of Grace

Longing for Home
But, when he talks about the sealing of the 144,000, and notes that the Tribe of Dan isn't mentioned, he says that it isn't because Dan isn't sealed along with the others, but because John wants to keep it neat and clean with twelve tribes, because that is the idiom throughout the Bible--the "Twelve Tribes of Israel".
Cavalier, Andy is a very personable man, and if you email him at his Facebook page, Andy Woods Ministries, he will very likely explain what he was saying in this teaching.
 

Hidden

Well-Known Member
China interests me. Firstly because they aren't mentioned except thru the broader "kings of the east" which imply a coalition, NOT a strictly Chinese led invasion and I agree that is later in Revelation.

Where they sit in relation to Ezek 38 is unknown in prophecy.

Here's a couple of things that rattle around in my head when I look at China though.

They are rivals of Russia for world domination. (if you ever saw the cartoon Pinky and the Brain, the theme of world domination will give a chuckle)

SOOOOO

That means to me that somehow, in someway they don't interfere with the Russian Turkish Iranian invasion listed in Ezek 38.

But contrary to the doom and gloom prophecy buffs who are ALWAYS predicting America's destruction I think America IS present as one of the cubs/daughters of Tarshish.

There are 2 main contenders for Tarshish-- one being Spain (if that is true then America, Spain and South America will launch that all important question to Russia --have you come for spoil?.

The other is Britain (and for reasons of that fact they fulfilled a prophecy of Isaiah with ships bringing survivors of the Holocaust to Israel I think it IS Britain).
and either way, America IS THERE just along with Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada which would be a likely grouping of Tarshish and her cubs/daughters if Britain is the winner of the Tarshish prize of Ezek 38.

SOOOOO
that means
America is around in a weakened state (just like right now under Biden if you ask me) or if the Lord tarries and this takes a while yet for Ezek 38 to play out then some future president that the Dems manage to put into place which seems likely.

BBBUUUUTTTTT and it's a big big BUTT
China isn't.

They are either too weak to try and challenge Russia for control of Israel (which they WANT -- plenty of news articles on their Belt and Road project and of their buy up of Israeli ports (similar to what they've done in the Panama)

OR

something happened to take them out of the equation for now. I think there are 2 things that could happen-- Mt Paektu which straddles the North Korean and Chinese border is a MASSIVE super volcano system that is sort of like Yellowstone in the Pacific North West area. Then there is the 5 Gorges dam which has some serious engineering defects that last years floods threatened to take out. That would gut China for quite a while. Either one.

China is an oddball. When I discuss prophecy with people I know they usually respond with, "What about China?"

Your theory is interesting for sure. A volcanic eruption...hmm, plausible.

Because right now it's kind of difficult to picture the AC subjugating China without some massive carnage. Another possibility is that the AC putting down 3 kings could be part of the second seal, which is basically WWIII, or WWIV, if you consider the Ezekiel scenario as WWIII.
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
It's just interesting that if China WERE to survive the Ezek 38 elimination of Russia, Iran, Turkey and the muslim world in general, CHINA would be the strongest leading nation, NOT the EU or even America.

They would rush into that power vacuum to fill it. It would be their dream situation.

BUT

the BIBLE doesn't mention them, and the AC comes from the people who destroyed the Temple according to Daniel, which is ROME.

SO

if China ISN'T in the way of the EU rising to global power as the prophecies indicate

THEN

China has to have something happen between now and then to take them out so that the AC CAN rise from the former Roman Empire. PLUS the seat of power for the AC is the rebuilt Babylon (or Rome depending on how you see it).

Because America (a daughter of either Spain or England so either Tarshish candidate works) is still around to protest in Ezek 38

THAT MEANS THAT America survives (in a weakened state) but China is not even considered as a force to be reckoned with till AFTER the mid point of the Trib IF they are part of the Kings of the East.
 

katt

Well-Known Member
You know, I never thought about The Rapture taking out many Chinese citizens..I believe that is over half of the Chinese population..and if a natural disaster takes out half of what's left, China which already has a shortage of females, just may find in population all they have left is that million man army, causing them to unite all of Asia and head towards the ME where they have more than their share of females, by way of the Euphrates, thus fulfilling the Revelation Prophecy...
 

Andiamo

"Let's go!"
So could the recent ramping up of attacks in Israel facilitate Ezekiel 38? At the risk of sounding really dumb, I used to think neither had to do with the other, but now I'm wondering if these events could be the FUSE because of Iran's relationship to Hezbollah and Hamas. (A fuse at least where Iran is concerned...I realize it starts with a hook in Gog, not by a fuse)
 

athenasius

Well-Known Member
So could the recent ramping up of attacks in Israel facilitate Ezekiel 38? At the risk of sounding really dumb, I used to think neither had to do with the other, but now I'm wondering if these events could be the FUSE because of Iran's relationship to Hezbollah and Hamas. (A fuse at least where Iran is concerned...I realize it starts with a hook in Gog, not by a fuse)
Absolutely YES this will someday light the fuse where Iran is concerned, and that could have implications for the Damascus destruction as the start of the chain of events leading to Ezek 38.

Here's how I get there.

Iran is present in Lebanon thru Hezbollah
Iran is present in Syria (they were chummy with Assad long before the Russians joined the party in Syria, and they are busy little beavers always building arms depots and training centres that Israel routinely bombs -- all over Syria but especially around Damascus and also in the Golan Heights.
(They are pretty much in control of large areas of Iraq as well)
Iran is funding Hamas in the Gaza via Qatar and helps out with terrorist groups in the so called West Bank.

Iran is coming in from all directions at Israel and has lately been trying use things like that oil spill or attacks on Israeli shipping as well.

Think of it as a pincer movement. They want to come at Israel from the North via the Golan Heights, the north west from Lebanon, the west and south from Gaza, the east from the "west bank" and at the same time Iran is also doing the same pincer movement to attack Saudi Arabia so they can take over Mecca and Medina and control Islam world wide thru access to those holy sites of Islam. That is why the Houthi's.

Iran has been working on this project for decades and it's part of their slow invasion of the areas around Israel. Where possible Iran tries to use proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis) so that their own blood isn't spilled and also so that they have plausible deniability for blind and foolish American presidents such as Obama and Biden.

As I've said in other threads, I am convinced this present uproar in Gaza has Iran's fingerprints all over it.

It is NOT a coincidence that as Biden is lifting sanctions, and easing things up for Iran that they are doubling down on their Satanicly inspired attacks on Israel.

What may happen is that Iran will fire up all their proxy fighters to weaken Israel (in their thinking) for a final push to take over Jerusalem. This has long been their goal and it's why they named their elite fighters the Jerusalem force in Persian. I forget the name, but it's to do with Jerusalem.

This has been in the works with the mullahs of Iran ever since President Carter pretty much sold out the Shah of Iran and encouraged the takeover (and the American hostages were collateral for his lack of understanding).

Getting back to Damascus which I think is the fuse for Ezek 38. Remember the WMD's that were in Iraq? Well before it fell, Saddam Hussein sent most of them to Syria for Assad to take care of. According to various intelligence reports over the years many of them are still buried in and around Damascus.

They include chemical, biological and other weapons of mass destruction.

Damascus is literally sitting on a powder keg, and the unfortunate side effect of their secret stash of WMDs is that Israel or anyone could accidentally set them off, not being aware of what they are bombing at any given moment. Other than what they think are the usual targets.

The final point is this.

GOD

has that final say about when the whole thing blows up. Not Iran, not Israel, nor Russia, nor Hamas. Nor their puppet master Satan.

This what we see right now is setting things up.

Like previous uproars and uprisings it may calm back down.

I don't know how many times I've watched and figured it would start and it doesn't.

That is because God stops the enemy from doing what he wants to do (if he can kill off the Jews in Israel, he can prove the Bible and God's prophecies to the Jews wrong) EVERY SINGLE TIME

till the day comes when God allows it to continue.
 
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Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
China interests me. Firstly because they aren't mentioned except thru the broader "kings of the east" which imply a coalition, NOT a strictly Chinese led invasion and I agree that is later in Revelation.

Where they sit in relation to Ezek 38 is unknown in prophecy.

Here's a couple of things that rattle around in my head when I look at China though.

They are rivals of Russia for world domination. (if you ever saw the cartoon Pinky and the Brain, the theme of world domination will give a chuckle)

SOOOOO

That means to me that somehow, in someway they don't interfere with the Russian Turkish Iranian invasion listed in Ezek 38.

But contrary to the doom and gloom prophecy buffs who are ALWAYS predicting America's destruction I think America IS present as one of the cubs/daughters of Tarshish.

There are 2 main contenders for Tarshish-- one being Spain (if that is true then America, Spain and South America will launch that all important question to Russia --have you come for spoil?.

The other is Britain (and for reasons of that fact they fulfilled a prophecy of Isaiah with ships bringing survivors of the Holocaust to Israel I think it IS Britain).
and either way, America IS THERE just along with Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada which would be a likely grouping of Tarshish and her cubs/daughters if Britain is the winner of the Tarshish prize of Ezek 38.

SOOOOO
that means
America is around in a weakened state (just like right now under Biden if you ask me) or if the Lord tarries and this takes a while yet for Ezek 38 to play out then some future president that the Dems manage to put into place which seems likely.

BBBUUUUTTTTT and it's a big big BUTT
China isn't.

They are either too weak to try and challenge Russia for control of Israel (which they WANT -- plenty of news articles on their Belt and Road project and of their buy up of Israeli ports (similar to what they've done in the Panama)

OR

something happened to take them out of the equation for now. I think there are 2 things that could happen-- Mt Paektu which straddles the North Korean and Chinese border is a MASSIVE super volcano system that is sort of like Yellowstone in the Pacific North West area. Then there is the 5 Gorges dam which has some serious engineering defects that last years floods threatened to take out. That would gut China for quite a while. Either one.
Question

The reference to the kings of the East crossing the Euphrates, is it possible that isnt about the Ezekiel war but rather it could be in reference to Armageddon? My understanding is they are two separate wars, Ezekiel war is at the beginning of the tribulation and Armageddon is at the Second Coming. What's your take?

I found these to explain why I'm thinking China won't be part Ezekiel war.

"The assembling of the armies begins at the same times as the divine judgement of the sixth bowl. At this time the Euphrates River will be dried up, making it faster and easier for the armies of the “kings from the east” to assemble. The armies joining him will be those of the seven remaining kings out of the ten described in Daniel 7:24-27 and Revelation 17:12, 13. Their goal will be the final destruction of the Jews. (See Revelation 16:12-16)"
https://www.raptureforums.com/revel...-a-chronological-order-of-events-in-8-stages/


"The timing of the Gog-Magog Battle after the Rapture of the Church but just before or at the very onset of the Tribulation best fulfills these prerequisites and makes the most logical sense in the prophetic timeline"
My View (Nathan Jones)

"Obviously, all of the timing views struggle over some particular point. Which view a person holds rests more on what they see as the view which provides the most logical harmonization of the prerequisites. I have to agree with Dr. Rhodes that the timing of the Gog-Magog Battle after the Rapture of the Church but just before or at the very onset of the Tribulation best fulfills these prerequisites and makes the most logical sense in the prophetic timeline. This is how I see the timeline most likely playing out:"

1. The Rapture of the Church removes the Restrainer.

2. Israel subjugates her surrounding neighbors in fulfillment of Psalm 83.

3. The Gog-Magog Battle destroys the Russian and Muslim influence in the Middle East, makes the world aware of God’s presence, and restores Israel’s belief in the God of the Torah.

4. The Antichrist makes a peace covenant with Israel which starts the seven-year Tribulation, then conquers what is left of the Middle East, and birth’s his Revived Roman Empire.

5. Israel spends the seven years of the Tribulation burning the weapons.

6. Jesus returns at the end of the seven years to defeat His enemies at Armageddon resulting in Israel acknowledging that Jesus is God’s Son.

7. Jesus gathers the people from all over the world for the Sheep-Goat Judgment, which results in only believers entering the Millennial Kingdom.

8. At the very end of the Millennial Kingdom, a final battle takes place that is reminiscent of the first Gog-Magog Battle.

Time will tell when the Gog-Magog Battle will truly take place. But, Israel is a nation once more as prophesied, and the coalition of invading nations are already working together for the first time in history. The scene is pretty much all set for this epic battle to be waged and in the not-too-distant future.
https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/understanding-gog-and-magog-part-7-of-7.177850/
 

Andiamo

"Let's go!"
I don't know how many times I've watched and figured it would start and it doesn't.

That is because God stops the enemy from doing what he wants to do (if he can kill off the Jews in Israel, he can prove the Bible and God's prophecies to the Jews wrong) EVERY SINGLE TIME

till the day comes when God allows it to continue
Wow, mind blown! Thanks so much, Margery! I read your post three times, and Will keep reviewing it as I watch these events....continue to unfold? We will see!

You have watched many times and figured it would start....and this is the first time ever I have watched and wondered if it would start...so bear with me :bluesclues

And AND....isn't it different this time? Because....

BIDEN...already .proving to be the most Israel hating administration ever,
PUTIN and his armies and ships everywhere,
and the new water passages he has created, because of Greece and somewhere I forget
and the unfinished-yet-so-close pipeline-that-ticks-him-off,
SYRIA and the countries that are more aligned now than they were when Obama was in office. ?

:popcorn2 :popcorn2 :popcorn2 <-------BIGGEST POPCORN EVER!
 

seated with Christ

Come quickly, Lord Jesus.
The stage is being set.

And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. Ezekiel 39:17
 

Andiamo

"Let's go!"
The Gates of hell will not prevail against the church
AMEN!

If there is one thing I got out of reading Footsteps of the Messiah, it is the fact finally driven into my brain that this...all of this....is GOD's program.

Leaders, governments, politicians, the EU, the UN, Soros, and the devil himself can come up with their plots, plans, and takeovers. But God and God alone is the one in control....complete control and anything that happens is PERMITTED by HIM, works by HIS will, to fulfil HIS plan.

I almost don't even care what happens to me anymore. Go ahead...take away my air conditioning, fuel, food, water, toilet paper. Restrict my movement, muzzle my mouth. Kill me if you want to. Any fear I have is swept away when I focus on the fact that you can't take away my God, my Salvation, my security and my future eternity.

I am so excited to see God's program playing out. He wins. WE WIN.
What an privilege to be witnesses and participants in this last hour.
 

Jan51

Well-Known Member
AMEN!

If there is one thing I got out of reading Footsteps of the Messiah, it is the fact finally driven into my brain that this...all of this....is GOD's program.

Leaders, governments, politicians, the EU, the UN, Soros, and the devil himself can come up with their plots, plans, and takeovers. But God and God alone is the one in control....complete control and anything that happens is PERMITTED by HIM, works by HIS will, to fulfil HIS plan.

I almost don't even care what happens to me anymore. Go ahead...take away my air conditioning, fuel, food, water, toilet paper. Restrict my movement, muzzle my mouth. Kill me if you want to. Any fear I have is swept away when I focus on the fact that you can't take away my God, my Salvation, my security and my future eternity.

I am so excited to see God's program playing out. He wins. WE WIN.
What an privilege to be witnesses and participants in this last hour.
You did catch the Gates of whom I was speaking? LOL
 

Andiamo

"Let's go!"
So this apparent war doesn't seem to be stopping. Israel knows that they stand alone, and need to take care of the bully themselves.

The bully, Hamas, has run and told their big brother, Russia, "We are ready for a cease fire!"

Putin is sitting there, in his opulent, ten billion dollar palace. Lifted up by the splendor surrounding him. Feeling very much like the Czar he knows he really is.

A thought comes to his mind. "You can fix this problem once and for all. And not only that, but you can take the spoil."

It's the same, whispered thought that came to Hitler. "Just get rid of them."
Putin turns away from that thought. He doesn't want to believe that he is this evil.

Israel flattens Damascus, and Putin is filled with rage. The hook is set, and turns his face back to that thought.

"The final solution."
 
Fascinating study. This headline from FoxNews TODAY should pique everyone's curiosity.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/erdog...t-lesson-over-its-conduct-toward-palestinians
See link above for full article.

Erdogan tells Putin that Israel needs ‘deterrent lesson,’ report says​

The Turkish Presidential Communications Directorate said the two leaders talked by phone Wednesday about the conflict. Erdoğan emphasized the need for "the international community to give Israel a strong and deterrent lesson" and called on the U.N. Security Council to step in with "determined and clear messages" to Israel, according to Turkish officials.

He also suggested to Putin that an international protection force should be considered to shield the Palestinians, The Associated Press reported.

Erdoğan also spoke to Middle East leaders about the rising violence. He told King Abdullah of Jordan that "inhumane" attacks against Palestinians were directed at all Muslims and that Turkey and Jordan needed to come together to stop them, according to the news organization.
 

Lovin Jesus

Well-Known Member
So this apparent war doesn't seem to be stopping. Israel knows that they stand alone, and need to take care of the bully themselves.

The bully, Hamas, has run and told their big brother, Russia, "We are ready for a cease fire!"

Putin is sitting there, in his opulent, ten billion dollar palace. Lifted up by the splendor surrounding him. Feeling very much like the Czar he knows he really is.

A thought comes to his mind. "You can fix this problem once and for all. And not only that, but you can take the spoil."

It's the same, whispered thought that came to Hitler. "Just get rid of them."
Putin turns away from that thought. He doesn't want to believe that he is this evil.

Israel flattens Damascus, and Putin is filled with rage. The hook is set, and turns his face back to that thought.

"The final solution."
Agree. I still believe that the Gaza Strip is the doorway for Iran "Persia" to make their way into Israel to participate in the Gog of Magog war. They have had proxies there for the purpose of attacking Israel. Thing is, I really don't think Iran even realizes, though it's in the prophecies, that they are already lined up for this war of Ezekiel 38-39
 
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