The timing on the 2 witnesses of Revelation

Neil777

Active Member
Does anyone know the timing of the 2 witnesses? Does their ministry start at the mid point of the tribulation?

I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.

The second woe and third woe are at the end of the tribulation.
 

Hannah

Well-Known Member
The two witnesses are from the Start of the Trib to Mid-point.

After the two witnesses have completed witnessing to the World God then sends the Angels who take the warnings and the salvation message throughout the Earth in the Second Half of the Tribulation.

So God ensures the WHOLE world hears the Gospel message throughout the entire Tribulation time.

:hat:
 

Neil777

Active Member
So the 2 witnesses are sent to Israel and prophecy all these disasters but do not tell them the antichrist will betray them and enter the temple and proclaim he is God. And why is the second woe after they are killed? The first woe is after the fifth trumpet which is near the end of the tribulation. It just doesn't make sense.
 

BuzzardHut

Bird Mod
So the 2 witnesses are sent to Israel and prophecy all these disasters but do not tell them the antichrist will betray them and enter the temple and proclaim he is God. And why is the second woe after they are killed? The first woe is after the fifth trumpet which is near the end of the tribulation. It just doesn't make sense.
Been a while since I edited my chart

Here's some more confusion :lol:

The Chronology Of Revelation and Prophecy
 

Chris

Administrator
Staff member
Perhaps this will help:

Timing Of The Two Witnesses | GraceThruFaith

Timing Of The Two Witnesses

Q. I noticed recently that you believe that the 3.5 years that the 2 witnesses are on earth during Daniel’s 70th week does not correspond to the 1st 3.5 years but overlap to 2nd half. Please give me scripture that leads you to that conclusion.

A. The 2 witnesses first appear in Rev. 11:1-12 before the 7th Trumpet sounds. But the Great Tribulation doesn’t begin on Earth until Rev. 13 . Also, after their 1260 day ministry they will be killed and their bodies will lay in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days, during which time people from all over the Earth will celebrate (Rev. 11:7-10). This will have to happen sometime before the Great Tribulation ends. Therefore I conclude that the ministry of the 2 witnesses will begin before the Great Tribulation starts and will be over before it ends.
 

Neil777

Active Member
I am just finding it difficult to believe the 2 witnesses will start their ministry in the first half of the tribulation. The reason is they are prophets of God. They will know who the messiah is (Jesus). They will also know who the antichrist is. But with all the prophecy where they stop rain and turn water into blood, the Jews are not told who the messiah is and the antichrist is going to defile the temple and proclaim he is God. Instead they are not told who their messiah is and they endure great suffering after the antichrist enters the temple and proclaims he is God, killing these 2 witnesses. It just seems to make more sense they start their ministry a little before the midway point and are killed at the 6th trumpet.
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
I am just finding it difficult to believe the 2 witnesses will start their ministry in the first half of the tribulation. The reason is they are prophets of God. They will know who the messiah is (Jesus). They will also know who the antichrist is. But with all the prophecy where they stop rain and turn water into blood, the Jews are not told who the messiah is and the antichrist is going to defile the temple and proclaim he is God. Instead they are not told who their messiah is and they endure great suffering after the antichrist enters the temple and proclaims he is God, killing these 2 witnesses. It just seems to make more sense they start their ministry a little before the midway point and are killed at the 6th trumpet.


Good afternoon Neil,

What is your supporting reference for saying that the Jews will not know who their Messiah is based on not being told?

Thanks,
Dave
 

ShilohRose

Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that the purpose of these witnesses is to be witnesses, to preach the Gospel and repentance, even while they are performing miracles of the Moses and Elijah type.
 

Neil777

Active Member
Good afternoon Neil,

What is your supporting reference for saying that the Jews will not know who their Messiah is based on not being told?

Thanks,
Dave

It seems that the Jews trust the antichrist and do not expect him to enter the temple and claim he is God. If they know Jesus is the messiah, they also believe the New Testament and know what will happen. Are you all saying the Jews in the first part of the tribulation already believe in Jesus as the messiah? And yet stay around and wait for all this to happen.
 

Neil777

Active Member
We also know that the OT daily sacrifices are still in place until the antichrist comes in the middle of the tribulation and makes himself God.
 

BuzzardHut

Bird Mod
Most Jews are atheists and are double blinded believing Israel and the Temple is the messiah; they will use the Antichrist to get their messiah temple built but then the AC will turn the tables on them at midtrib; the AC will pull out their dependency on the temple rug from beneath them causing them to flee and look for another savior. only a few Jews will be saved at Jesus' second coming; Jesus will save those who see Him for who He really is and cry out for Him to save them.
 
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Neil777

Active Member
Most Jews are atheists and are double blinded believing Israel and the Temple is the messiah; they will use the Antichrist to get their messiah temple and the AC will turn the table on them at midtrib; the AC will pull out their dependency rug from beneath them causing them to flee and look for another savior. only a few Jews will be saved at Jesus' coming; Jesus will save those who see Him for who He really is and cry out to Him to save them.

So God will send the 2 witnesses to Israel (most likely Moses and Elijah) in the first half of the tribulation. They will do all these miracles like turn water into blood and cause the rain to stop, and if anyone wants to harm them fire will come out of their mouth and devours them, and they will not convince the Jews anything. And the Jews will continue in unbelief until the daily sacrifices are taken away and they have to flee out of the city. Then what did they accomplish being sent to Israel?
 
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araj54

Well-Known Member
So God will send the 2 witnesses to Israel (most likely Moses and Elijah) in the first half of the tribulation. They will do all these miracles like turn water into blood and cause the rain to stop, and if anyone wants to harm them fire will come out of their mouth and devours them, and they will not convince the Jews anything. And the Jews will continue in disbelief until the daily sacrifices are taken away and they have to flee out of the city. Then what did they accomplish being sent to Israel?

Good point.
 

Neil777

Active Member
This what I am proposing. Please have an open mind. The rapture is pre-trib. And the tribulation is 7 years. But the day of the Lord is at the opening of the sixth seal in Revelation. The day of the Lord is not the tribulation but the last part of the tribulation.

In Malachi 4-5 it says:
"See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.

The first 3 1/2 years is the beginning of sorrows. The great tribulation starts at the mid-point. Those days are cut short at the sixth seal and this starts the day of the Lord judgment. What do you guys think?
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Good Morning Neil,

It seems that the Jews trust the antichrist and do not expect him to enter the temple and claim he is God. If they know Jesus is the messiah, they also believe the New Testament and know what will happen. Are you all saying the Jews in the first part of the tribulation already believe in Jesus as the messiah? And yet stay around and wait for all this to happen.

I don't think you followed my question... Believing doesn't come by virtue of hearing a message does it? If that were the case then everyone who reads a billboard, or hears a street preacher, or who flips to the correct station on TV would be saved....

Israel has been hardened right? (Rom. 11:8) So this hardening has something to do with the purpose of the tribulation right? Even if some Jews hear the message and repent, the New Covenant and purpose of the tribulation will not be completely realized until all of Israel is saved... (Jer. 31:34). Right?

Kind regards,
Dave
 

BuzzardHut

Bird Mod
So God will send the 2 witnesses to Israel (most likely Moses and Elijah) in the first half of the tribulation. They will do all these miracles like turn water into blood and cause the rain to stop, and if anyone wants to harm them fire will come out of their mouth and devours them, and they will not convince the Jews anything. And the Jews will continue in unbelief until the daily sacrifices are taken away and they have to flee out of the city. Then what did they accomplish being sent to Israel?

I think many Jews and Gentiles will believe and be saved because of their ministry, but the hardest will not believe due to their faith in their temple until the AC takes that crutch away from them.
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
I think many Jews and Gentiles will believe and be saved because of their ministry, but the hardest will not believe due to their faith in their temple until the AC takes that crutch away from them.

That's right... Jews come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ all the time (Rom. 11:1). The tribulation finds a purpose in bringing a national repentance to Israel. (Rom. 11:25-32)
 

Neil777

Active Member
So you guys are saying the Jews in charge of the temple sacrifices will see these 2 witnesses that Jesus sent, fire proceeds from their mouth to kill anyone that tries to harm them, turn water to blood and still will not receive their message. These are the priests in the temple. So these priests are so hardened they will not believe these signs? And why would anyone try to kill these 2 witnesses in the first half of the tribulation? These are Jewish prophets. If anyone tries to kill them it will raise concern as to why especially when they are in Israel and witnessing to the Jews.
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
So you guys are saying the Jews in charge of the temple sacrifices will see these 2 witnesses that Jesus sent, fire proceeds from their mouth to kill anyone that tries to harm them, turn water to blood and still will not receive their message. These are the priests in the temple. So these priests are so hardened they will not believe these signs?

Hi Neil,

Yeah... Imagine that?

Jesus healed lepers, blind people, cripples, and rose from the dead... and people still didn't believe. (Luke 16:31).

Sorry for the playful sarcasm... It's my understanding that all of the events of the tribulation lead to the national repentance of Israel. We can't make the assumption that a/some priests will not repent at the witness of the 144,000, or "the two"... but personal salvation is different than national salvation; Israel was hardened through her rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. Israel, will have their veil removed and call for their Messiah through the events of the tribulation.

Now it's not that you haven't made some interesting points concerning the timing of the witnesses, it's just, the point of Israel hearing the gospel as a prerequisite of salvation lacks any foundation.

Hope all is well,
Dave
 

Neil777

Active Member
Also, the entire world will see their dead bodies in Jerusalem. 3 1\2 days later they go up to the clouds and the world must know this. Then there is an earthquake in less than an hour predicted 2000 years ago. All this happens for the entire world to see. And yet most of the world will follow the antichrist for the next 3 1/2 years. In this day of the internet and satellite communications. The unbelief in the world is just too much to deal with. It still seems to me this happens later like near the end of the second half. It just does not fit, especially because the second woe is passed when this happens.

No scientist today can predict an earthquake within an hour, let alone predict 1/10 of a city to fall. Yet the entire world will see this and will follow the antichrist right after he enters the temple, proclaims he is God and for 3 1/2 years follow him even when his enemies (2 witnesses) just went up in a cloud to heaven and an earthquake happened that was predicted 2000 years ago. A question people will be asking is how can this guy claim to be God when his enemies just went up to heaven in a cloud?
 
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