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Seventh Day Adventist vs. Born Again Christian

Discussion in 'Modern Cult Groups & Errant Religions' started by Happy4u&me, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. Happy4u&me

    Happy4u&me Member

    Not sure where to put this but what's the difference between the Adventist and Born Again Christian - besides worshiping on Saturday & no rapture?
  2. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    There are many differences between SDA doctrine and Christianity.

    The primary one is that they reject the idea that salvation is by grace alone through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross. SDA doctrine is that His death and shed blood only paid part of the price. We have to keep the Old Testament law to finish the work. If you fail to keep the law you are not saved. In fact only as you keep the law and are seen to be righteous then is your sin gradually blotted out.

    The SDA also hold to the blasphemous doctrine that Satan plays a role in our salvation. Jesus has taken our sins but God has not forgotten them. The sins will be placed on Satan who will bear them away. THEN we will be free of them.

    Another key false doctrine is that we cannot know for sure that we are saved. We can only know it for sure when we have died.

    Add to this the fact that you MUST accept Ellen White as the true prophet of God and all of her teachings as divinely inspired; and that meat is bad and God prefers us to be vegetarians. Finally if you reject any part of SDA doctrine ... especially keeping the law, then you are bound for hell. In fact if you refuse to join an SDA church you are most likely lost.

    On ANY ONE of the above points, but primarily on salvation by works, we can determine that the SDA preaches another gospel and therefore is to be rejected by true Christians.
  3. Happy4u&me

    Happy4u&me Member

    thank you mattfivefour! That was very informative. We have some friends that are adventists and want to address these points with them.
  4. Ruth

    Ruth Well-Known Member

    Here is a great site to do lots of research on:

    When I first realized the many different belief systems out there - I spent several years studying various ones / cults to try to figure them out. They all had their subtle and not so subtle differences to Christianity. But over time, I started to get confused as to which ones believed what.

    Then the Lord showed me that the best way to discuss counterfeits is to really know the real thing so well that you can point out the errors of a counterfeit with ease.

    Get to know the gospel message so well,God so well, the scriptures (whole counsel) so well that you can respond to any errors spontaneously.

    I don't know all the scriptures but I know the Lord and His message very well.

    My real name is not Ruth but I chose it to go by here because the book of Ruth IS the gospel message and it is my favorite book in the Bible next to the 4 Gospels.

    I hope that helps on top of what Matt presented.
  5. Happy4u&me

    Happy4u&me Member

    that a great site Ruth. It has lots of information. See, I'm not sure if these adventists follow all the adventists rules, but not sure. I know that they see the recent new turn that the Adventists are going through. They(Adventists) are trying to fit in with the world and changing some things to agree with the recent masses(more the younger crowd) and they don't agree with some of it.
  6. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    Nevertheless, they believe salvation is begun by Christ on the cross and then finished by each of us following the law. THAT is another gospel. The bible is clear on that ... especially in Galatians where the Holy Spirit through Paul deals with that very issue head on.

    Jesus paid it ALL. When He said "It is finished" He meant "It is FINISHED!!!" It is so offensive to me when people lessen His sacrifice and suggest man could somehow do something to help save himself.
  7. all very true, they take great store in ''works" and pointing fingers, also if you fall out your bound for hell,they give all new believers about three months of brain washing right out of the bible,but there are a lot of great folks who are sda`s but are just mis lead
  8. IGWT

    IGWT Well-Known Member

    Hi All.

    This is by Timothy Oliver off the Watchman fellowship profiles. I hope it gives you the answers that you are looking for.

    Organization Structure: Headquarters in Washington, D.C. Organized as representative democracy. Lower echelons elect representatives to higher units; determination and administration of policy, enforcement of doctrinal orthodoxy, imposed from top down. President, and Executive Committee of General Conference are standing chief administrative offices. Lower administrative units are the General Conference, Divisions (over continents), Union Conferences, local Conferences, and congregations. Several small Universities and Colleges and numerous well respected hospitals are maintained worldwide.

    Unique Terms: “Investigative Judgement,” “Spirit of Prophecy,” “Coming into the Truth” (believing and living the full SDA message and lifestyle), “Remnant Church.”

    The world was predicted to end in 1844 with the Second Coming of Christ, by William Miller, a New England Baptist itinerant preacher. Miller's followers condemned all the churches of the day as apostate and “Babylon,” and warned Christians to come out of them. A great many did, and the “adventist” movement was born and grew rapidly (Melton, J. Gordon, Encyclopedia of American Religions, Vol. 2, pp. 21–22).
    Christ did not appear in 1844. After this “Great Disappointment,” one “little flock” still insisted the date of their original predictions had been correct. They decided the event marked by 1844 was not the Second Coming, but the entrance of Christ into the Holy of Holies in the Heavenly Sanctuary. There, they said, He began the “Investigative Judgement.” This doctrine was received and endorsed by Ellen G. White (Ibid., p. 680).

    From 1844 to 1851 the group taught the “shut door” doctrine, based on Jesus’ parable of the ten virgins. Anyone who had not accepted the Adventist message by the time Jesus entered the Holy of Holies was to be shut out permanently, as were the five foolish virgins. Cut off from the Bridegroom, they could not join the Adventists or have any hope of eternal life. Ellen White not only approved and taught this doctrine, but her first vision experience was largely responsible for its being received by the Adventist group (Brinsmead, Robert, D., Judged by the Gospel: A Review of Adventism, pp. 130–33).

    By 1846 the group had adopted the Seventh-day Baptists’ view that the Saturday Sabbath must be observed by Christians. A highly elevated form of this doctrine, together with the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, became the hallmarks of Seventh-day Adventism. In 1850 James and Ellen White began publishing a magazine, The Review & Herald, to disseminate adventist and sabbatarian doctrines. This helped many of the remaining “Millerites” to coalesce into a distinctive body which adopted the name of Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1860, and formally incorporated in 1863, with approximately 3,500 members in 125 congregations (Encyclopedia of American Religion, Vol. 2, p. 681).

    Ellen White never held official title as the head of the church, but was one of its founders and acknowledged spiritual leader. She rather disingenuously declined to claim the title of “prophet,” calling herself a “messenger” instead (Damsteegt, P.G., et. al., Seventh-day Adventists Believe. . ., p. 224). But she claimed to have the “spirit of prophecy,” and that her messages were direct from God for the guidance and instruction of the church. With her knowledge and consent others called her a prophet, and even “the Spirit of Prophecy” (Barnett, Maurice, Ellen G. White & Inspiration, pp. 5–17). Having only a third grade education, Ellen White said for years she was unable to read, bolstering the claim that her beautiful prose was inspired by God. However, it has been discovered that she not only read, but plagiarized other Christian authors throughout virtually all her writings. The sad facts of this matter have been thoroughly and indisputably established in several books. (e.g., see; Rea, Walter, The White Lie; and Judged by the Gospel, pp. 361–83). Ellen White died in 1915 at age eighty-eight.

    Historically, evangelicals have had difficulty defining and categorizing SDA. Much SDA doctrine is biblically orthodox. Within its ranks are many true Christians, some even in positions of prominence. At various points in its history, most notably in the 1888 General Conference, the SDA church has been shaken by the biblical gospel. In the 1970s this became quite intense (Se: Paxton, Geoffrey, J., The Shaking of Adventism). Unfortunately, it produced a polarization. The church administrators generally became more entrenched in the unorthodox positions of traditional SDA, while some pastors and even whole congregations left or were asked to leave the SDA church (“From Controversy to Crisis,” CRI Journal, Vol. 11, No. 1, pp. 9–14). In official publications the SDA church continues to defend Ellen White legends, and maintain there was no difference in the degree of inspiration she received from that received by Bible writers (Review & Herald, 4 October 1928, p. 11; “Source of Final Appeal,” Adventist Review, 3 June 1971, pp. 4–6; G. A. Irwin, Mark of the Beast, p. 1; “The Inspiration and Authority of the Ellen G. White Writings,” Adventist Review, 15 July 1982, p. 3; Ministry, October 1981, p. 8; see also, Judged by the Gospel, pp. 125–30). In their June, 2000, General Conference they voted to more aggressively affirm and support the “Spirit of Prophecy through the ministry of Ellen White”(Adventist Today, [online: July 2000] ). They also teach a number of other doctrines clearly irreconcilable with the biblical gospel (see “Doctrine,” below). So long as these things continue, evangelicals must persist in questioning the status of the SDA church organization in Christianity, and much more, her claim to be God’s only true, end-time “Remnant Church.”

    SDA teachings most clearly contrary to the gospel and unorthodox in nature are its insistence on water baptism as an essential prerequisite to salvation, its teaching about the end time significance of sabbath observance to identification of true believers, and its doctrine of the Investigative Judgement.
    Baptism: “…Christ made it clear that He required baptism of those who wished to become part of his church, His spiritual kingdom.” “In baptism believers enter into the passion experience of our Lord.” “…aptism also marks [a] person’s entrance into Christ’s spiritual kingdom.…it unites the new believer to Christ.… Through baptism the Lord adds the new disciples to the body of believers — His body, the church.… Then they are members of God’s family” (SDA’s Believe…, pp. 182, 184, 187).

    The Sabbath: “…[T]he divine institution of the Sabbath is to be restored… The delivering of this message will precipitate a conflict that will involve the whole world. The central issue will be obedience to God's law and the observance of the Sabbath.…Those who reject it will eventually receive the mark of the beast” (Ibid., pp. 262–63).

    In one of her most revered works, Ellen White wrote that Sabbath observance would be the “line of distinction” in the “final test” that will separate God’s end-time people who “receive the seal of God” and are saved, from those who “receive the mark of the beast” (The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan, p. 605).

    Describing a supposed vision direct from God, Ellen White wrote, “I saw that the Holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers” (Early Writings, p. 33; emphasis added). She also wrote of some Adventists failing to understand that “Sabbath… observance was of sufficient importance to draw a line between the people of God and unbelievers” (Ibid., p. 85).

    The Investigative Judgement: “In 1844…[Christ] entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgement which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin… It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgement vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom” (SDA’s Believe…, p. 312; emphasis added).

    “…[O]ur High Priest enters the holy of holies [in 1844]…to perform the work of investigative judgement and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits… Every man’s work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness… The law of God is the standard by which the characters and the lives of men will be tested in the judgement… As the books of record are opened in the judgement, the lives of all those who have believed on Jesus come in review before God… Names are accepted, names rejected… as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life… Jesus does not excuse their sins, but shows their penitence and faith, and, claiming for them forgiveness, He lifts His wounded hands before the Father… Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner… [Christ] had kept His Father’s commandments, and there was no sin in Him… this is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble” (Great Controversy, pp. 480, 482–84, 486, 623).

    According to Ellen White one must believe this doctrine to be saved. “Those who would share the benefits of the Savior’s mediation should permit nothing to interfere with their duty to perfect holiness in the fear of God… The subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgement should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position [in the Holy of Holies] and work [investigative judgement] of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs for them to fill. Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God… All who have received the light on these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ’s work in behalf of men… It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects… The intercession of Christ in man’s behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon a cross. By His death He began that work which after his resurrection He ascended to complete in Heaven” (Ibid., pp. 488–89; emphasis added).

    Other distinctive SDA teachings include vegetarianism and other “health” issues; the doctrine of “soul sleep,” a misnomer for the belief that between death and resurrection one is essentially non-existent except in the memory of God; the annihilation of the wicked (as opposed to conscious torment for eternity).

    Biblical Response
    Baptism: Rom. 3:21–26, 28; 4:4–6, 23–24; 5:1; Gal. 2:16; 3:26; 5:1–6; Eph. 2:4–10; Col. 1:13–14; 2:13–14. These passages make it clear that salvation is entirely by God’s grace alone, apart from any works, and laid hold of by faith alone. Baptism is mentioned in close proximity to some of these passages, but the New Testament uses the word baptism in various ways. Clearly, the “one baptism” (Eph. 4:4–5) that is essential is the baptism of the Spirit. If a passage makes baptism essential to salvation it can only refer to the baptism of the Spirit, or it would conflict with other Scriptures which plainly teach salvation is apart from any human work.

    The Sabbath: The quoted statements above, particularly Ellen White’s, are crystal clear. Sabbath observance, not trust in Christ alone for complete forgiveness of sins and eternal life, is to be the dividing line between the saved and the lost in the end time. This is certainly antithetical to the gospel defined by the passages above. See also, Rom. 14:5–6; Col. 2:16–17. The Old Testament Sabbath was never anything more than a shadow of the substance. The reality of the New Testament Sabbath rest of God, which Paul and the writer of Hebrews make clear, is Christ Himself, and the rest one experiences from one’s own works when one enters into Christ (Heb. 4:1–10).

    The Investigative Judgement: the whole concept of the investigative judgement is antithetical to the Gospel. Jesus did not wait until 1844 to enter the Holy of Holies in heaven (Heb. 1:3; 6:19–20; 8:1; 9:6–12, 24; 12:2). Neither is he still making an atonement in heaven (Heb. 9:25–26; 10:11–14). The investigative judgement proposes to “vindicate the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus,” by showing they were “loyal,” “penitent,” and “faithful” commandment keepers. This is an outrage. God’s justice in saving sinners is vindicated by Christ’s death on the cross, period (Rom. 3:24–26).

    Even when speaking of being saved by the righteousness of Christ, Adventist writers refer to imparted righteousness, seldom to the biblical concept of imputed righteousness. Calling it “Christ’s righteousness,” while insisting on the believer’s perfection of character as a prerequisite to salvation, is at worst a thinly veiled works salvation, or at best an attempt to mix grace and works, something the Bible says is impossible to do (Rom. 11:6). Mrs. Whites words are crystal clear—one will not be forgiven until all sins are eradicated from one’s life and one’s character is perfected. Precisely the same heresy is found (besides many others) in Mormonism. It is not the salvation by grace alone through faith alone offered in the Bible.

    The error is compounded by the teaching that this latter day 1844 event must be believed in to exercise the proper faith necessary to be saved. When Jesus said on the cross, “It is finished,” i.e. completed, paid in full, it cannot be that there is yet another salvation event more than 1800 years later, just as essential to salvation as Christ’s death on the cross, in which one must believe in order to be saved. This is clearly “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6–9).

    Other doctrines: Some of the SDA health message may actually be helpful, and it does not conflict with the gospel except when, as is often the case, spiritual stigma is attached to non-observance of its asceticism (Gal. 2:11-16). The soul-sleep doctrine conflicts with the gospel because, closely examined and fully understood, it actually constitutes a denial of the resurrection (though it is doubtful any SDA understands it to be so). Notwithstanding a smattering of “proof-texts,” the annihilation doctrine is definitely aberrant from the teaching of the Bible. It leaves the sinner facing no eternal consequences for his sin; angst over annihilation will not survive annihilation. Indeed, many people today think annihilation preferable to even this life. They live on only because they cannot shake the conviction that there is “hell to pay.” God has set eternity in their hearts (Eccl. 3:11).

    God Bless you all
  9. stargirl

    stargirl New Member

  10. paul&katie

    paul&katie Well-Known Member

    What does Seventh Day Adventism teach? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

    Ellen G. White has been proven over and over a false prophet who cannot be from God as Gods prophets are never wrong.
  11. LostNoMore4

    LostNoMore4 Well-Known Member

    Wow - that IS a Satanic denomination to the HIGHEST order!

    I wonder how they're going to react when this One World AC Leader emerges? My guess is that they'll welcome him in open arms.
  12. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    She says this, yet Mrs. White and her followers believe that one must keep the law in order to go to heaven. In other words, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was not sufficient. Faith PLUS. And Faith plus anything is another gospel, according to the Holy Spirit through Paul in Galatians.

    They teach that it is a "lie that you can still go to heaven while breaking the law." They also truly believe that worshiping God on Sunday rather than Saturday is of Satan and, according to their own writings, it is the same as accepting the mark of the beast.

    In the 27 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church, one states: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.

    E.E. Cleveland, on of the SDA's most famous evangelists, who died just this summer, wrote: "I believe in the Testimonies. Mrs. White's writings are the world's Only Inspired Bible Commentary." She herself wrote: ""God was speaking through clay. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision the precious rays of light shining from the throne." (Visions Of Mrs. E. G. White Testimony 31 p. 63)

    Unfortunately Mrs. White made numerous prophecy blunders while claiming to speak only the words of God. You can read a couple dozen of them at Seventh-day Adventist view Ellen G. White as an inspired prophet

    Like all false prophets, her lip profession of faith in Christ fools a lot of people ... but it is her actions that prove that she was not of God. Don't be fooled. And certainly do not be fooled by the SDA today which has watered down her claims and her pronouncements so as to paper over the errors and make themselves appear to be founded on the principles of sola fide, sola scriptura, sola gratia.
  13. myinnuendo999

    myinnuendo999 Well-Known Member

    Your'e so right and some of the changes are very dangerous. I met an Adventist recently in a Christian Chat room who said that she was told John 1:1 was misinterpreted and that it does NOT mean that Jesus is God... I don't know if She was taught this at her Adventist church or what.
  14. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    No I don't. Not in the way you mean it. Because the Bible does not teach that.

    The thief on the Cross called Jesus "Lord" and asked Him to remember him when He entered His Kingdom. Jesus told him that he would be with Him in Paradise "this day".

    Now the thief was not a law keeper. He had stolen ... and maybe more. But even if he were no more than a simple thief, the Word tells us that he who offends the law in the least way is guilty of violating it all. Yet Jesus told him that he would be in Paradise with him. How? Simply by acknowledging Jesus as Messiah and Lord and placing his faith in Him. That's it. Plain and simple. He clearly hadn't kept the law ... yet he was assured he would join Jesus after death. Grace by faith alone ... without keeping the law.

    Now we WILL keep the law after true conversion, but not by TRYING to keep it however, but because the only law keeper who ever could do it perfectly was Christ ... and He by His Spirit now dwells in us, working out in us what He has worked in, both providing the will and the doing. Our salvation rests not in that law-keeping, but in our faith. Jesus Christ and Him crucified. That is the gospel. We supply nothing. Even the faith we have comes from Him.

    And to those who feel that after being saved by faith they then have to produce works to maintain that acceptance with God, the Holy Spirit prompted Paul to write: "O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth...? This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?" (Galatians 3:1-3)

    The Greek construction of that last part is rhetorical and requires the reader or listener to answer in the negative. There is no real question. The reader must understand that "No! We are not perfected in the flesh." We are saved by faith, we are perfected by faith.

    And respectfully, that is the end of the discussion.

    But, you say, Abraham kept God's law. No. He didn't. The Law had not been given. But even God's natural law was not kept by Abraham. In fact we find in Genesis that Abraham lied and deceived even after being accounted righteous by faith. Yet, for all that, he believed in God, trusted Him, and offered blood sacrifices on a stone altar ... all of which foreshadowed the Cross. And therefore his faith was accepted and righteousness of God was imputed to him, not by the law but by his faith. And so he is today among the righteous in Heaven.

    Paul describes it in the third chapter of Galatians, part of which I quoted earlier. In it you will not find Abraham's obedience to the law raised at all, only his exercise of faith:
  15. BuzzardHut

    BuzzardHut Bird Mod Staff Member

    If it walks like a cult, talks like a cult, then it's a false church and a cult
  16. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    Of course an unrepentant person cannot be saved. They must be repentant. But on what basis are they saved and kept? Faith. And true faith WILL produce obedience to God in ALL things ... but it is the nature of Christ within that produces those works, not we in our flesh trying to keep laws.

    It is clear from the answers you have given me that you do not grasp what I have been saying. For example, you respond to my use of Galatians 3:1-3 in terms of salvation. But Paul is not talking about salvation here. He is speaking of sanctification. And THAT, he says, is also by faith ... and NOT by works. In fact that entire Galatians passage I posted speaks EXCLUSIVELY of sanctification by faith, specifically as opposed to works.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  17. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

    (Deleted in the interests of the forum.)
  19. Saved by Jesus

    Saved by Jesus Well-Known Member

    ...that's some pretty messed up thinking! Very sad to think this is what they follow.

    Thats a good one Buzzard Hut...I'll have to remember that line!!!
  20. myinnuendo999

    myinnuendo999 Well-Known Member

    Rom.11:6 “And if by grace then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. but if it is by works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." It is either one or the other it can't be both, these are two different covenants.If you choose to be under one then you are removed from the other.

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