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Discussion in 'Christian Chat' started by Robert, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

    My thanks to MattFiveFour in helping me to write this topic. :thumbup

    The CFR.

    The Tri-Lateral Commission.

    911 "truth”-ers.


    The Illuminati.

    The Jesuits.

    The Bildebergers.

    The Rothchilds.

    The New World Order.

    "Shadow Government"

    These are but a small sample of the many conspiracies that I have heard of in my time.( At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if the Girl Scouts end up on the list someday!! ) I'm sure there are plenty others, but this small list is just what comes to the front of my mind when I think of this topic. Each one is a conspiracy that those who worry about it sincerely believe lurks in the shadows, and would threaten to jump out at us when we least expect it....

    But how much do we need to be concerned?

    Conspiracies and their theories have been around since man first learned to talk to one another; in fact, one of man's first conspiracies was to get together and build the Tower of Babel. (For the story on that sordid affair, refer to Genesis 11:1-9) It would seem to be in man's nature to conspire against other people they perceive to be a threat, have something they want, or wish to be in control of.

    But as far as conspiracies, or "confederations" go, God has some advice for us:

    "Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us. For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread." (Isaiah 8:9-13, emphasis mine)

    Although Isaiah is speaking to the people of his day, this also holds true for us as well; our fear is to be the LORD, and not man. And this is not the only place that God tells us not to be afraid of men:

    "In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me." (Psalm 56:11)

    "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." ( Matthew 10:28-31)

    I am not saying that we should walk about unprepared; but rather, instead of hiding in basements armed to the hilt for an armed invasion, we need to be out doing our father's business.

    One thing in particular has always struck me about these global conspiracy theories: they have been going on for a long, long time. Take the Illuminati, for example. Or the Knights Templar. All these things are purportedly conspiracies to enslave the world. Well what mortal man takes part in a conspiracy that hundreds and hundreds of years later, even a thousand or so, still hasn’t come to fruition? Doesn’t that seem odd? There have been ample times in the history of the world when a true conspiracy could have ruled the world and enslaved all of civilization. But it never happened. When some tried to rule the world, they were beaten. In the past couple hundred years, it was people whom conspiracy theorists have named as members of some of the dangerous “hidden” societies that worked to help beat back the would-be conquerors.

    What’s my point? Conditions in the past have been far more favorable to the enslavement of mankind. Weak civilian populations, with few freedoms, accustomed to living under absolute monarchs, without access to media … are the perfect fodder for a dictator. How come it never happened?

    Because it can’t. I suggest to you that while there may be specific conspiracies from time to time, involving various important people, there is no over-arching conspiracy to rule the world. Except from one source. Let me tell you about it;

    Lucifer had been the highest angel in heaven, as he was originally created: "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." (Ezekiel 28:12-14)

    But this wasn't enough for Lucifer:

    "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." (Isaiah 14:13-15)

    "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." (Ezekiel 18:15)

    Lucifer conspired with one third of the angels in Heaven to depose God, and remove him from the throne, with Lucifer taking the seat for himself!

    But God would have none of it.

    Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    "By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." (Ezekiel 28:16-17)

    Lucifer's plan to take Heaven and the seat of the Universe from God failed miserably; he had been removed from his position in heaven, and became known as the Adversary, or Satan. He no longer enjoyed the same privileges as the other angels, and his position was taken by his onetime subordinate, Michael. (This draws a parallel as compared to the the first son, Cain, and the second son, Abel.) He had neglected to consider one thing: a finite being CANNOT defeat an INFINITE one.

    So, since he could not assault God directly, Satan's next move was to claim what God held the most dear in creation: Man...

    "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:1-5)

    By causing Man to sin, he put a barrier between God and all of mankind: that of sin and death. He successfully bound humanity with those accursed chains, and the rule of creation was taken from man.

    But unbeknownst to Satan, God already had a plan in motion: he would redeem Mankind through his own blood. To do this, God had to ensure that he had a race of people through whom he could conduct this plan. That race would be started through a man named Abraham:

    "Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. " (Genesis 12:1-3)

    And through his lineage down through the centuries, God created a nation unto himself: Israel. Time and again, Satan tried to destroy them from both without and within; but God was faithful to his promises to them:

    "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." (Isaiah 7:15)

    Even when Israel sinned so greatly that God banished them to Babylon, he never forgot his promises to them, and stood by his nation, restoring them after 70 long years in exile. Almost 500 years later, God in the flesh was born to that nation: Jesus the Christ:

    "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke 1:30-33)

    Satan did hid damnedest to try to destroy the Saviour: from the murder of the innocents in Bethlehem by Herod the Great, to the temptation in the wilderness, Satan threw everything he had at Christ. But in spite of all his trickery and connivance, Christ never swayed from his mission to save humanity from the bondage they languished in:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16)

    Jesus died for us on the cross, paying our penalty in our place. Satan thought he 'engineered" Christ's death by manipulating the Pharisees and Scribes into hatred against Jesus; to the point of arresting him on a false charge and breaking several Sanhedrin laws in order to conduct an illegal trial.

    But Satan was NOT in control of the situation; All of this had been planned in eternity past.

    On the day Christ rose from the dead, Satan's kingdom took the equivalent to a coordinated ground and air strike from God himself! God smashed the forces of darkness, and took the keys of death and hell from that miserable old serpent, Satan.

    The judgment of the Cross sealed Satan's fate that day. And to make matters worse, what was created on the day God sent the Holy Spirit to mankind was something Satan had no plan for: the Church. Each member being sealed by the Spirit of God; and preaching the Gospel of our Lord:

    "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

    Now, Satan seeks to destroy and consume as many as he can, with the intention of destroying Israel before God can return to keep the remainder of his promises to her. To do this, he manipulates the world against Israel, and seeks to whittle her down to nothing. And he seeks to paralyze and marginalize the church by the same means he used to isolate and deceive Eve:

    Questioning God's word, and allowing for heresy to creep in.

    My brothers and sisters, we can seek conspiracies and secret organizations all we want; but the true conspiracy is the one Satan hatched millennial ago. And through God's written word, we know that Satan will NOT prevail against God. In the end, God will finally deal with Satan once and for all.

    There are going to be those that will claim "we have to watch for these conspiracies, or they'll take everything from us!!" Do we trust God so little that we cling tenaciously, even vehemently to "our rights?" Have we so little faith in our Lord that we deem it necessary to fight the battle against Satan in our own power?

    If we do, then we have already lost.

    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12)

    If we confine our time to fighting the people of this world, then we are playing right into Satan's hands. If we try to take on Satan himself or his minions, we will surely be crushed; Satan can easily pulverize the average human, and wipe the floor with him on all levels!

    Do we dare to take him on on HIS terms?

    No, we must trust in God's promise: "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:35-39)

    The Lord fights our battles for us, and as the time draws closer and closer, we need to be about our Father's business; this I CANNOT say strongly enough!!! We must continue to be a witness to those we encounter, not a spectacle for those we meet and talk to to gawk at and mock, giving the church a black eye" as it were.

    I bid all of you the peace of the Lord.


    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  2. readytogo

    readytogo Well-Known Member

    :thumbup Excellent post, Robert! And I thank Mattfivefour for his helping you to write it. I see enough news today that confirms Bible prophecy without resorting to the need for "conspiracy theories". While I believe that we should remain watchful of our "environment" (sensitive to changes all around us), I don't think that we are intended to use these things to stir up people into a frenzy where they are running in circles rather than running to God.

    Lately, in reading the forum, I have been reminded of the verses in Ephesians 4:14-15

    14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

  3. Ort

    Ort Well-Known Member

    If a man who cannot be confirmed as a U.S. citizen, who refuses to release a valid birth certificate or his school records (which would more than likely show he's not a citizen), can buy the White House for $650 million dollars, become our president, and nobody in our government OR media cares about it or reports on it, or does anything about it...............I'm not supposed to think there's a whole bunch of people in cahoots? No conspiracies happening? :scratch: I must respectfully disagree.

    I just believe that there is a difference between satan's rebellion, and earthly machinations. Of course God wasn't about to let satan do what he thought he was going to do. But, one day the entire world will be ruled by one man, the anti-Christ. He will literally hold the power of life and death over the entire earth. And that isn't a conspiracy theory, but the truth that will be upon us (soon, IMHO).

    I'm not trying to be a pill or start a fight, but I just had to let my feelings known. I just don't want to be afraid to speak up if I disagree, but I don't want people to think it's more of the same ol' same ol' that's happened here in the not-so-distant-past. I hope you both don't feel that way, as it's not my intent to be divisive. :hug2:
  4. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    I cannot speak for Robert, Ort; but I for one do not think you are trying to start a fight. Nor do I find your find your comments divisive. You are contributing to a discussion that I believe God would have us have and that I think will be edifying to all of us.

    Yes, Ort, one day the entire world WILL be ruled by the Anti-Christ. And yes, he will literally hold the power of life and death over the entire earth. But no, that truth will NOT be upon US. WE will be gone. Taken by our Lord from the wrath of God. Even the Anti-Christ is used by God for the fulfillment of His purposes. What is coming upon the earth is ordained by God and is designed to bring the remnant out of the world and into eternal life with Him ... in other words the Tribulation saints. But that is not our issue. That is not our concern. At least it shouldn't be.

    And that is Robert's point.

    BTW, Robert is being far too kind in referring to my "help". This awesome post is Robert's work. I merely offered a few editorial suggestions. God will use this post, I am convinced, to speak to some people. Too often our board of fellowship and comfort, of instruction and correction, of edifying in love, has been sidetracked into issues that are not of true benefit to the body. I know some will disagree. But, respectfully, I think they are in error, although I understand their concerns and just how much their spirits are vexed—as is mine—by the rapidly deteriorating condition of this world. But vexation is one thing. Worry and fear and anxious concern are another. The vexation and the realization of where this world is headed should spur us to prayer and a closer walk.

    Worry about the horror that is to come should not create fear in a child of God, but rather a provocation to work more faithfully for our Lord.

    I believe that is why this burden was laid upon the heart of one of our brothers here— for everyone's benefit. Robert has written as he has felt led. All of the concerns, the structure, the scriptures, came together for him as a result of his prayerful consideration of this subject. I was glad to be asked for my opinion before he posted it for I, too, share the concerns that prompted Robert's post. But it is he who has prayed long and hard over this subject, well before he ever started writing. I think his points are worth considering.

    I am not suggesting people turn a blind eye to what is going on in the world. Not at all. We NEED to consider the times and pray, preach, and persevere more than we ever have. But we do not need to fear what is coming. We only need to trust our God and fearlessly walk as HE would have us walk ... saying what He would have us say ... and doing what He would have us do. Fishing for the "evidences" to try to discern conspiracies does not help us do that. We were called to fish for men, not conspiracies. The latter merely sidetracks us, diverting our attention from that which is proper and necessary and good.

    Thanks for starting this thread, Robert. I think the discussion that has begun is one we need to have here. And I pray that all of us can contribute to this topic in the spirit of love and brother/sisterhood (as have RTG and Ort) and let our views be placed peacefully and respectfully before one another ... not in human wisdom but in the gentle wisdom and counsel of the Word of God.

  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

    Thank you Matt. You summed it up perfectly.

    And don't worry Ort; it's no crime to disagree. All of us in the body of Christ will not agree on everything, but it doesn't lessen the bonds we have with one another. :hug2:
  6. readytogo

    readytogo Well-Known Member

    I too have been troubled by what I have been seeing in "the world". I am also amazed at how quickly that the country in which I grew up has slid downhill. I can only speak for myself but I don't put the recent election of the President in the category of a "conspiracy theory" with the "Illuminati" for example. Conspiracies involve secrecy among a few elite. What was done in the recent election was done in plain view and with the "consent" of many people.

    Romans 1:28 (New International Version)

    28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

    It's disheartening to see (to say the least), but we were told that these things would happen. God is still in control though. But as the world begins to panic about what is going on today, we are to have faith that He is allowing things to happen in order to bring about His will. We were told that there would come a time when the world would move toward one world government headed by the AC, but were we told that we should panic? This is a pre-trib forum. We have faith that we are NOT going to be here when that happens. The AC won't be revealed until we are taken out of the way!

    More upsetting than the "conspiracy theories" that I see being posted here is the feeling of panic and/or raw fear that I am sensing in the members here! And when we have "guests" here, this is what we are conveying to others.

    2 Timothy 1:7 (King James Version)

    7For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

    And yet lately, I see a lot of that spirit of fear on this forum. That is NOT from the Holy Spirit. That is a "gift" of the unholy spirit!

    1 Corinthians 10:31 (King James Version)

    31Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

    How is talking about conspiracy theories bringing glory to God? How is the talk about arming ourselves for protection against the powers that be edifying to Him? Can anyone find any place among the teachings of Christ where He tells us that we are supposed to store up weapons to protect ourselves and our possessions in the last days? This is not to say that I think that it is wrong for people to have a means to protect themselves. But to be looked upon as an "oddball" for not having or even wanting a firearm is upsetting to me!!
  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member


    We need to trust God; he must be our rock and our high tower, our shield and our fortress.
  8. Ort

    Ort Well-Known Member

  9. Ort

    Ort Well-Known Member

    :hug2::hug2: Thanks for understanding. You are right that we are not to waste our time on such things, but there are conspiracies and they are being put into place because humanity is so sinful. I guess I was just assuming that he was saying there was no such thing as conspiracies. There are indeed, but while they affect us, as believers they do not concern us as we are not of this earth, but merely passing through.

    That being said, of late I have been having a heaviness of heart at all the nonsense that has been coming from the White House and our Usurper-in-Chief. Wrong is right and right is wrong and anything evil is good and anything good is evil. It just gets me down, and it didn't used to. I don't know why I am being bombarded by this lately. :idunno: But I can tell you I don't like it. Anybody else feel this way, or is just me? :scratch: And if it is just me, am I a failure as a believer? :scratch::scratch:
  10. happy2serve

    happy2serve Well-Known Member

    Thanks Robert for the post. :thumbup That was a very good summary. It takes guts to talk about things like the Illuminati/Jesuits. I think there is some truth to many conspiracies, and I think these conspiracies will become more and more important as we enter the NWO.

    By the way, I heard somewhere that the girl scouts used to be Christian based but now are New Aged based. I will look for the source and see if it is accurate or not.
  11. mattfivefour

    mattfivefour Well-Known Member

    No you are not a failure. And I say that not out of my own judgment but out of the Word of God. You see the Bible speaks of someone just like you. "God rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men (for by what he saw and heard, that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds)." —2 Peter 2:7-8

    What is happening to you, Nancy, is your spirit is being vexed (which is the word used by the KJV translators) at the lawless deeds of the world around. It doesn't mean you are a failure. It means you are sensitive, that you have a heart after God.

    But I call you to remember one thing: were it not for Jesus Christ and the great salvation He purchased on Calvary and which He freely gave to you, you would be just like the rest of the world. You, too ... indeed all of us ... would be living in our own lawless deeds. That you are not like that is only because God had mercy on you. Likely someone, or more than one person, was praying for you. Return the favor. Pray for the lost.

    Indeed, these worsening, increasingly evil times are actually a blessing to the furtherance of the Kingdom for we are not alone in feeling profoundly disturbed and vexed by what is going on in the world. Many unsaved people are feeling the same unease and do not know what to do. Well, we know what to do. And having that answer we have great opportunity to share it with those who are striving for hope in the mire.

    I quoted above from 2 Peter 2 because I wanted to show you how Lot was vexed in his spirit but God nevertheless calls him "righteous". He calls you righteous as well. Righteous in Christ. But I want to go back to those verses in fuller context because they say something important to us, relevant to the way you feel. "4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8 (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment."—2 Peter 2:4-9

    Does that give you comfort, sis? It should. Read the passage again. It tells you that you do not need to worry ... that just as surely as you are saved and kept eternally so the lost who refuse His grace will be lost eternally. Not one will escape divine justice. Their punishment is sure.

    So you can safely rest in the secure knowledge that God is in control. And if what is going on vexes YOU, just think what it is doing to the Righteous, Holy God! Trust Him that He knows what He is doing. Just keep your eyes on Jesus, serve Him as best you can, and know that surely righteousness shall prevail, the righteous shall live with Him forever, and the wicked shall receive what they have sown.
  12. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member


    It vexes all of us, and none of us that are in Christ fell comfortable in this world. Nor should we; this is not our home, but a temporary trip, a visit to a forsaken land that is dying.

    I am not saying that we should ignore the world around us Ort. By no means; we are to be vigilant and keep aware of the events around us. But we must never lose sight of our purpose in this world: to point people to the only safety and rescue out of this mire of darkness and despair: Jesus Christ. Matt sized it up right.
  13. Ort

    Ort Well-Known Member

    Amen and Amen...........and...........:hug2::hug2::hug2:
  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

  15. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member

  16. Meg

    Meg Well-Known Member

    Great article, Robert. I hope this thread continues to bless many.

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