Binding And Loosing

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matthew 12:43-45

As were told from scripture
this Generation does appear to be the terminal one :crying
sadly enough I do believe many who are tormented with unclean spirits
do not have a clue how to deal with what is worse
and also most never hear the gospel truth about sin the nature of it
what to do about it etc....

this passage is not really good news
because it does state the more wicked and the last state
often enough victims of this are left hopeless and as you say victimized
further by religion not helped . :tsk:
 

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
This is probably quite correct as well, but I don't like to give up on people...

Elijah, genuine spiritual warfare is a terrible tangle. There are a lot of people out there who think they know what "binding and loosing" should mean, and when it doesn't work like they think it should work, they only get frustrated and try harder. Thats when you get into the really weird stuff from beating up victims, blaming victims and all manner of odd rituals. I don't know what the "good answers" are supposed to be. I've dealt with a lot of personal attack on myself of the spiritual variety, and the answers I'd get from Jesus Christ after I learned to not turn to the likes of Bob Larson were very unexpected to say the least!

What I understand so far is that humans can't grapple demons on our own strength, regardless of any sensitivities we might or might not have. Its easy to get the idea that some people have some kind of "deliverance anointing", but its not that simple, and more people get out of deliverance ministry than stay in and be effective. What I am sure of is that forgiveness is really important, I mean forgiveness towards ourselves and others. And thats such an unexpected answer that most people won't accept it, but with the Bema Seat of judgement recording my words, that has been my personal experience with Jesus Christ! Believe me, I tried everything else first, and I've had some strange backfire type experiences along the way. My understanding from Scripture is that our only genuine refuge is to be as much as possible in a Covenant relationship with Jesus Christ by willingly and lovingly keeping (as opposed to angrily obeying) His commands as taught in the Bible, and forgiveness is one of the most important. Thats been my experience.

:thinking:
I am not certian I should disclose this meg but when I first began to be really seeking out God spiritually one thing that drove me in my beginning to do so was because I as a young child did
see the manifestation of some thing very paranormal and very demonic . As I can truly testify many victims of these type of things are simply wrote off to the mental health pro's to be drugged and tortured :crying

In my serious pursuit to get answers Ive mostly found the religious dont have it
I never gave up on the person who I witnessed as a child was tormented by such :crying
I could not do that :crying
yet what I did find was a individual who had familiar happenings
I really did believe that person could guide me to understand
what happened in the end however was a betrayal and farce :crying
which left me believing more in the passage I shared than in any hope of
having real peace of mind regarding a person I never gave up on praying they could be well
which really I have had great difficulty in forgiving the fact that individual only toyed with leading sincere people looking for truth and answers down the garden path and in the end displaying more of the thing called legion than actually being of any Christian benefit to me or others :rolleyes

Ill send you the link for better explaining who I am referencing meg
PM

:thinking:
In my child hood meg I know I saw and was exsposed to
some things I never should have been and I really know it did lead me to
seek God with all my heart
In my own experience Ive only seen visibly what demons can do to people
and worse was really knowing how trapped the person was and how much they suffered
pain persecution being gunnie pig experiment for the drug guru's under a mental health banner
none of what I saw or know about the person was pleasant
worse was the feelings of being helpless to help them
I once had a real passion for people who suffered under demonic powers
yet like I said meg the one thing that turned me away from that was I found for the most part
the one in the know that I looked to for answers :rolleyes only victimized confused and betrayed
no help at all :rolleyes
I eventually grew to have peace about the person I was concerned about I knew in real life
the day they died they were as right as if they had never had a problem ever and died knowing
they were free forever and going to God :yeah:
so even though I witnessed seeing really scary things :fear
I also was able to witness their end their last day of life and testimony
this person meg was precious and left this world singing Jesus Loves me
the child version :crying it was tears of joy and real joy to visably see a really persecuted person
who had a serious tormenting life be as set free as bird before going
however this was recorded as fact
the only true good sign of total clarity and sanity seen in the person in many years
it lasted one day and the individual died

 

Meg

Well-Known Member
This discussion has been moved to PM. But I will say this. What Elijah is describing happening to someone else I have dealt with first hand. I blundered into some very serious mistakes, and some people I know personally blundered into much worse.

The inability for the majority of Christian ministers to handle these things calmly through closely working with Jesus Christ and depending on Scripture first with humble and candid prayer as a backup is simply devastating... Jesus Christ understands our vulnerabilities in a way that is utterly unique to Him as these words from our dear brother Elijah underscore:

it was tears of joy and real joy to visably see a really persecuted person
who had a serious tormenting life be as set free as bird before going
however this was recorded as fact
the only true good sign of total clarity and sanity seen in the person in many years
it lasted one day and the individual died

This ties into why I am so thankful that Jesus Christ really in The Way, The Truth and The Life, and that He really is God. We really are safe in Him and with Him...
 

Enoch

New Member
Elijah
You are so right. These so called deliverance preachers do more harm than good. Before someone is totally delievered all the open doors in that persons life and generational line must be closed. This is a very time consuming process and can only be done by the Lord Jesus Christ nobody else.

When you see a person fall down and a preacher standing over them saying you are delievered. If by some chance a demon is casted out he will go to a dry place and come back with seven more powerful demons because the rooms have been swept clean. Then that person is much worse off than before.

What exactly has to be done. First have total faith and trust in The Lord Jesus Christ that he will set you free.

Before any delieverance can be attempted the blood of Jesus Christ must be applied then the spirirt of confusion must be dealt with. This is one of the enemy main weapons.

First know this could take weeks if not months maybe years and it may or may not ever be successful.

Have the Lord reveal to you all the generational curses in your complete generational line. The right hand man of the enemy is King Balak all he does is put curses on people. The enemy can't attack you till Balak curses you. Then have The Lord help you break all your generational curses one by one. He will confirm to you that all your generational curses are broken and all your generational doors are closed.

Then start with your early childhood go to The Lord and he will reveal to you what you have to deal with there. We have all suffered traums in our early years and we carry them thru out our life and they affect us just as much today as when they occured in our early childhood.
The Lord Jesus Christ actually told me my son your little boy is now healed.

Then go on to your present situation. This could take awhile but if all your doors are closed from your generational lines and early childhood you can move forward. Do not move forwrd till all those doors are closed.

Well by now you must assume I have been thru a complete delieverance. It is a humbling and frightfull experience. When you have demons buzzing all around you and you cry out to the Lord why has thou foresaken me Lord. You know your making progress. This is not for the faint of heart. Only thur complete faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ was this possible. I remember the time The Lord told me I will not let them harm you my son.

To put what I have just put on a public forum will make the enemy real mad at me to say the least. But I have no fear of the enemy our Holy Father has extended to me a complete hedge of protection (Job 1:10) The enemy has no access to me none what so ever.

Before attempting any deliverance please go into deep prayer and fasting to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Only with his help guidance and protection should you attempt this.He will let you know if you should proceed and how you should go about this. May God bless and protect us all and take us all home as soon as possible.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
I have major problems with the "generational curse" concept, primarily because I'm adopted. I also have major problems with the dependence on guesswork to figure out how to break the chains of sin in someone's life. Lets have a look at Scripture, if we may:

Isaiah 30:15-18

15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:

“In repentance and rest is your salvation,
in quietness and trust is your strength,
but you would have none of it.
16 You said, ‘No, we will flee on horses.’
Therefore you will flee!
You said, ‘We will ride off on swift horses.’
Therefore your pursuers will be swift!
17 A thousand will flee
at the threat of one;
at the threat of five
you will all flee away,
till you are left
like a flagstaff on a mountaintop,
like a banner on a hill.”
18 Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
he rises to show you compassion.
For the LORD is a God of justice.
Blessed are all who wait for him!

As to "generational curses, again, allow me to illuminate this issue with Scripture:

Jeremiah 9:13-14

13 The LORD said, “It is because they have forsaken my law, which I set before them; they have not obeyed me or followed my law. 14 Instead, they have followed the stubbornness of their hearts; they have followed the Baals, as their fathers taught them.”

Jeremiah 9:23-24

23 This is what the LORD says:

“Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom
or the strong man boast of his strength
or the rich man boast of his riches,
24 but let him who boasts boast about this:
that he understands and knows me,
that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the LORD.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as a generational curse. The idea that there is comes from an incorrect reading, an imaproper exegesis, of Exodus 34:7. A proper exegesis will consider the context of what is said, a proper identification of those to whom the warning was issued, along with all of the other bible verses on the topic. A proper exegesis will include reference to the teaching of Deuteronomy 5:9-10; Deuteronomy 28:1-14 which proclaim blessing to the obedient and Deuteronomy 28:15-68 which proclaims curses only upon the disobedient; Deuteronomy 30:19-20; Ezekiel 18:6-20; I could go on and on, especially into the New Testament. Instead I will keep this short by quoting Pastor Dan Rodrigues:

"In Christ, my past has been blotted out. The curse has been broken and I am free in Him! (Colossians 2:11-15, 1:12-14, Galatians 5:1, 13) God took my sin, death and curse and put it on Jesus so that I would walk free from them and inherit the blessing. (Galatians 3:13, 14) The blood had made me righteous and I am no longer under the curse as a punishment for sin! (Romans 3:21-26) Now, even if I sin, I can confess my sin and receive cleansing from all unrighteousness through the same blood that redeemed me. (1John 1:7-11, 2:1-2) This means that I can stay free with the liberty that Jesus purchased for me. Satan has no more rights to your or my life. He is a defeated foe and has no right to enforce the curse in our lives. (Hebrews 2:14, 15, 1John 3:8, Colossians 1:13)"
Every single Christian has, through Christ, complete power over Satan and his demons. (Mark 16:17; Luke 10:19; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:8; etc) There is no bondage in which he can hold us based on somebody else's actions. If we are in bondage to Satan and our flesh it is because of our own actions, not an ancestors.

This erroneous teaching of generational curses has done much harm in the Body. I am sure Satan enjoys and promotes the silliness that ensues, for it takes people's eyes off their real problems and lessens the all-sufficient work of Christ. Those who promote it are usually well-meaning, but unfortunately their belief is unscriptural ... as a full and proper investigation of scripture reveals.
 

Enoch

New Member
Exodus (20.5) You shall not bow down to them or worship them. For I The Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.

Lamentations (5.7) Our ancestors sinned and are no more and we bear their punishment.

Generational sin is real it is what the enemy uses as a back door to attack us. Until you deal with generational sin thru The Lord Jesus Christ you will never be entirely set free.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Bring the rest of the scriptures to bear, the specific circumstances and context of the ones you quote and you will see a different picture emerge. However, let's ignore that for a moment and go to the New Testament. God provided instruction on every single aspect of Christian life in the New Testament. Where does He talk about "Generational Curses" (even indirectly) in his instructions to the Body. Our deliverance is complete in Christ. Respectfully, to believe that one can be indwelt by Almighty God yet still under a curse is to completely fail to understand the nature of God, the totality of Christ's sacrifice, and the effects produced in us who believe.
 

Enoch

New Member
I believe every word in the scripturers is the word of God. We can not add or detract from the word.

I will stand on Exodus (20.5) and Lamantations (5.7). My best advice to you is to pray to The Lord Jesus Christ for guidance.
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
I agree that we must not add or subtract from the word of God, bro. But we must rightly divide it. And that requires a lot more than finding a proof-text or two, out of context, and building a doctrine on it that is actually contradicted by a lot more scriptures. Whenever there is an apparent contradiction between scriptures, it is always the doctrine we have drawn from some of those scriptures that is wrong, not the scriptures. On that basis alone we cannot allow the doctrine of generational curses to stand. But that aside, if there is such a thing as a generational curse that can interfere with a Christian being able to walk as a Christian, then where is God's instruction on the matter in His Word to the Church? He gave us every other instruction in the New Testament to deal with every conceivable problem as individuals and as a corporate body. But not on that.

Everything I have ever read by those who teach that there are generational curses and who give instruction on how to release yourself form that curse is the fabricated product of their own imaginations. Nowhere in Scripture does it tell you how to free yourself. Mainly, I suggest, because nowhere in Scripture does it tell you you are bound by them. Yes, the children of those who are wicked tend to the same wickedness themselves since the way in which a child is raised tends to stick with him or her their entire lives. UNLESS CHRIST INTERVENES. And just to make sure we understand that, God has given us the clear explanation by devoting the entire eighteenth chapter of Ezekiel to the fact that individuals are bound only by their own sins, not those of their fathers ... or vice-versa. A point reinforced in Isaiah 3:10-11 and Jeremiah 31:21-34, among others. To refuse to believe that we are bound by and responsible for only our own sin is to deny God's Word and to deny the efficacy of the Cross by saying that faith in Christ alone is insufficient to set us free.
 
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Robert

Well-Known Member
I believe every word in the scripturers is the word of God. We can not add or detract from the word.

I will stand on Exodus (20.5) and Lamantations (5.7). My best advice to you is to pray to The Lord Jesus Christ for guidance.

And I will stand on the following:

"So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8:31-36, NASB, emphasis mine)

"Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." (Hebrews 9:23-28, NASB, emphasis mien)

"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. " (1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:1-2, NASB, emphasis mine)

Essentially, what you are saying Enoch is that Jesus' blood was NOT powerful enough to save to the utmost; that even after being saved we are still cursed. That goes directly against scripture; either his blood covered ALL or it covered NOTHING. And taking one or two verses out of context does not support your case: any verse, taken out of context, may be twisted to whatever form the user wishes. That in of itself is a form of eisegesis, which we must never do with scripture.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
I agree that we must not add or subtract from the word of God, bro. But we must rightly divide it. And that requires a lot more than finding a proof-text or two, out of context, and building a doctrine on it that is actually contradicted by a lot more scriptures. Whenever there is an apparent contradiction between scriptures, it is always the doctrine we have drawn from some of those scriptures that is wrong, not the scriptures. On that basis alone we cannot allow the doctrine of generational curses to stand. But that aside, if there is such a thing as a generational curse that can interfere with a Christian being able to walk as a Christian, then where is God's instruction on the matter in His Word to the Church? He gave us every other instruction in the New Testament to deal with every conceivable problem as individuals and as a corporate body. But not on that.

Everything I have ever read by those who teach that there are generational curses and who give instruction on how to release yourself form that curse is the fabricated product of their own imaginations. Nowhere in Scripture does it tell you how to free yourself. Mainly, I suggest, because nowhere in Scripture does it tell you you are bound by them. Yes, the children of those who are wicked tend to the same wickedness themselves since the way in which a child is raised tends to stick with him or her their entire lives. UNLESS CHRIST INTERVENES. And just to make sure we understand that, God has given us the clear explanation by devoting the entire eighteenth chapter of Ezekiel to the fact that individuals are bound only by their own sins, not those of their fathers ... or vice-versa. A point reinforced in Isaiah 3:10-11 and Jeremiah 31:21-34, among others. To refuse to believe that we are bound by and responsible for only our own sin is to deny God's Word and to deny the efficacy of the Cross by saying that faith in Christ alone is insufficient to set us free.

Adrian, thank you! Jeremiah 9:13 "leaped out" at me in May 2006 on the first night of the women's retreat when I was delivered 2 days later, and the understanding I had at the time was that I was not under any kind of "generational curse", even though that issue didn't come up at the time. However, the "generational curse" issue did come up a couple of years alter when I went for help over a bad nightmare that had troubled me deeply. Frankly, I panicked, I mean really panicked! I felt like I'd just been hit in the guts with an ice cold spear, because I am adopted and my family history was erased. A curse like that, had it been real, might have been any number of things! Later that week, the Holy Spirit did explain what the dream was all about, and His answer was so unexpected, in that it was tied to how I perceived myself and how I was holding Jesus Christ at a distance because of the mistaken impression, that even the pastor who prayed for me was completely floored.

Thank you for using your skills with handling Scripture to refute that devastating mistake! I cringe at the family strife a mistaken accusation like that has the potential to cause!
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
And I will stand on the following:

"So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8:31-36, NASB, emphasis mine)

"Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." (Hebrews 9:23-28, NASB, emphasis mien)

"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. " (1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:1-2, NASB, emphasis mine)

Essentially, what you are saying Enoch is that Jesus' blood was NOT powerful enough to save to the utmost; that even after being saved we are still cursed. That goes directly against scripture; either his blood covered ALL or it covered NOTHING. And taking one or two verses out of context does not support your case: any verse, taken out of context, may be twisted to whatever form the user wishes. That in of itself is a form of eisegesis, which we must never do with scripture.

:yeah: Robert! :yeah:

Great post!!!
 

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
:thinking:
much of this is very new to me and I dont fully understand just yet
so I am going slow with digesting this but please be patient I need to understand it all
because it is of importance :((
 

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
:thinking:
where to begin I would need to know if a person who was normal very normal
suddenly did something so unreal :shocked and attacked but you could not make identification regarding eyes or voice "IS" that was it a demonic attack ? I have to know it must have been :((
because of what happened and so as a child I could not understand what occurred or why
I was attacked by a person who may have had a demon problem and it scared me horribly :fear it is not hard to describe what happened just very scary to tell :((
 

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
:thinking:
what is the first thing right to do in the event that your attacked by a individual who has a demon ?
It is very difficult to see and know someone and suddenly you dont see their eyes or hear their voice :shocked that is the biggest problem about it .Even a child can identify a human eye and voice :(( and know the difference if that suddenly changes and is not the persons which is what I saw :shocked
I guess the one thing that really confused me is it was most assuredly was not the eye's of who I knew and I could not connect it to being the person (((( not at all))) Ive never been able to identify what occurred with a human :scratch:


 

Meg

Well-Known Member
:thinking:
what is the first thing right to do in the event that your attacked by a individual who has a demon ?
It is very difficult to see and know someone and suddenly you dont see their eyes or hear their voice :shocked that is the biggest problem about it .Even a child can identify a human eye and voice :(( and know the difference if that suddenly changes and is not the persons which is what I saw :shocked
I guess the one thing that really confused me is it was most assuredly was not the eye's of who I knew and I could not connect it to being the person (((( not at all))) Ive never been able to identify what occurred with a human :scratch:



Call on Jesus Christ. Ask Him to help, since He's the only one who can.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matthew 12:43-45

As were told from scripture
this Generation does appear to be the terminal one :crying
sadly enough I do believe many who are tormented with unclean spirits
do not have a clue how to deal with what is worse
and also most never hear the gospel truth about sin the nature of it
what to do about it etc....

this passage is not really good news
because it does state the more wicked and the last state
often enough victims of this are left hopeless and as you say victimized
further by religion not helped . :tsk:

The thing that most people don't seem to understand is that unclean spirits can't just get into a person filled with the Holy Spirit and in a right relationship with Jesus Christ. This is why satan cannot and does not drive out demons and neither do people. The Lord might work through someone, but trust me, the Lord alone does the heavy work, the people stand as a prayer guard. And when Jesus Christ closes a door, NO ONE can open it, not man, not devil.

Revelation 3:7

7“To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

These are the words of Him who is Holy and True, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open
 

Elijah's Mantle

Well-Known Member
The thing that most people don't seem to understand is that unclean spirits can't just get into a person filled with the Holy Spirit and in a right relationship with Jesus Christ.

:((
I agree with that
so how in the round world does someone claim they healed people while under demonic possession ?
which is what some go so far as to claim :scratch: would that be why they say their later state is worse ?
:doh: well it was quite not sensible to get information from a demoniac to try to help any one else
I guess that is the real reason when that door was shut it has never been opened since :(( the real bizarre part is the fact that the person making such claims is accepted as Holy spirit filled all the while those who was attacked by the person found closed doors
can that be called Christian ? that has always confused me as well :scratch: that is why I would have to know they exercised their own will and words even God would know it :(( well makes sense why ? they could not help even their own selves and rather non Christian things occurred
that does explain some of it meg :((
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
:((
I agree with that
so how in the round world does someone claim they healed people while under demonic possession ?
which is what some go so far as to claim :scratch: would that be why they say their later state is worse ?
:doh: well it was quite not sensible to get information from a demoniac to try to help any one else
I guess that is the real reason when that door was shut it has never been opened since :(( the real bizarre part is the fact that the person making such claims is accepted as Holy spirit filled all the while those who was attacked by the person found closed doors
can that be called Christian ? that has always confused me as well :scratch: that is why I would have to know they exercised their own will and words even God would know it :(( well makes sense why ? they could not help even their own selves and rather non Christian things occurred
that does explain some of it meg :((

Elijah, it is extremely important to understand this about people who are not submitted to the Holy Spirit, and the following statement applies most strongly to non-Christians.

Pagans, to use a generalized term, make up their stories as they go along. If one "god" doesn't seem to be effective, they easily switch "gods" or alliances. If one type of spirituality, say Buddhism, for example doesn't seem to be working, they will switch to say, Yoga, for example. So any time you hear the so-called testimony of a non-Christian seeker, they will have a story of several different techniques, often referred to as "paths" which they have tried, abandoned and then tried something else. Christians don't do that. If you look at a really advanced Christian, and our Adrian (Mattfivefour), who sets a very good example for us all, what he expresses is digging deeper and deeper into the Bible, always using the Bible itself to answer questions about the Bible itself until he has developed a very broad understanding of Scripture without having any desire to look beyond Scripture.

This is the "narrow gate" of Salvation vs the "broad way" to destruction.
 
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