Gifts Of The Holy Spirit

Kist

Member
I find it such a shame that so many people attack the gifts of the Spirit because they feel they have not received it, much like I think it's a shame that a lot of focus is put on one single gift, while there are so many, thanks for listing them btw Meg. I feel, and fear that a part of it is a lack of understanding of ones shortcomings in order to see the truth. And with that I mean the following. We, as humans, still feel like we should do all by ourselves, and as such aren't always open to the gifts of the Spirit, and if we are, we aren't always aware of any shortcomings in ourselves that would mean receiving a certain gift isn't for you. To take myself as example, and the most common gift of speaking in tongues. I remember just being saved, and hearing this pastor speaking saying oh you need to speak in tongues to be saved, and all that nonsense. I believe he said that was THE sign of being saved. So naturally I became concerned. So I seeked the Lord, I was really frightened, and I blatantly asked why I did not receive such a gift. Well let's just say I got my answer, I know why I don't speak in tongues, though I'd rather keep that for myself, but I'll tell you this, it is a part of my shortcomings, a shortcoming that combined with the Gift wouldn't be good for my relationship with God. I learned that you receive the Gifts that God knows are good for you, and ofcourse also for others. And I think it's also a part of maturity in Christ. And I know what would happen if I'd speak in tongues, by that I'm not saying it will never happen, because with God everything is possible, that is the beauty of a Life with Christ. But it's still a part in which I need edification, a remnant of my former life I suppose.
On the different side of the spectrum of things you'll see the people only seeking Gifts, gifts and more gifts. Well you know, I'm not even going to explain what's wrong with that.
I know there are a lot of people out there that say I don't know what my gift is, and other things a long those lines. Well I'd like to say this, it can be hard to discern between what is a gift from the Spirit and what is a talent sort to speak, but nothing truelly good is achievable without Him. I think most people possess far more gifts than they are aware of. God can let you shine in areas you hadn't dreamed about in shining in, if the need arises. But for that to happen you need to surrender to God, let Him work in and through you, and you will see that when that need is there, He'll be there to pull you through.
 

GlennO

Well-Known Member
Mattfivefour said:
Barna's got it backward. You grow a church from the inside out. Come to think of it, Barna hasn't got it at all.
Sad but true! :(( His Ventura HQ is very near my former back yard. The fruit of his tree tastes of the world and the flesh. I read his book Unchristian. Made it through 3 chapters. I'm pretty sure R. Warren digs it.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
If its OK and all, could y'all please not derail this thread grousing about Barna. Thx...
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
On the different side of the spectrum of things you'll see the people only seeking Gifts, gifts and more gifts. Well you know, I'm not even going to explain what's wrong with that.
Indeed! Those who seek gifts are going to find error and deception. those who seek the giver will get what is good.
I know there are a lot of people out there that say I don't know what my gift is, and other things a long those lines. Well I'd like to say this, it can be hard to discern between what is a gift from the Spirit and what is a talent sort to speak, but nothing truly good is achievable without Him. I think most people possess far more gifts than they are aware of. God can let you shine in areas you hadn't dreamed about in shining in, if the need arises. But for that to happen you need to surrender to God, let Him work in and through you, and you will see that when that need is there, He'll be there to pull you through.
Absolutely. Stop worrying about your gifts! Start living for Christ. Start that process of daily surrendering to Him. Daily reckoning yourselves dead to your own lives, hopes, dreams, desires, plans, and purposes ... and alive only to serve Him. THEN you will begin to see gifts operating in your lives. God doesn't give and say "Use". He simply says "Go". And when you go you will find He has given what you need.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
Indeed! Those who seek gifts are going to find error and deception. those who seek the giver will get what is good.
Absolutely. Stop worrying about your gifts! Start living for Christ. Start that process of daily surrendering to Him. Daily reckoning yourselves dead to your own lives, hopes, dreams, desires, plans, and purposes ... and alive only to serve Him. THEN you will begin to see gifts operating in your lives. God doesn't give and say "Use". He simply says "Go". And when you go you will find He has given what you need.

Kist and Matt really have super good points!

The reason I brought this up is that many people feel ineffective in their faith and get discouraged. Thats not good, so calmly discussing what these gifts may be, I think, might be of some value. People should feel good about their faith, and be able to feel confident; when we feel confident in Him, it shows.
 
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mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
The reason I brought this up is that many people feel ineffective in their faith and get discouraged. That's not good, so calmly discussing what these gifts may be, I think, might be of some value. People should feel good about their faith, and be able to feel confident; when we feel confident in Him, it shows.
And the best way to " feel confident in Him" is to have an actual relationship with Him. Just as real as you have with your spouse, or your best friend, or anybody else. Christianity is not a philosophy, it is not a religion, it is not even the believing of certain truths. It is a one-on-one, personal, living relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The Word tells us that we have boldness of access directly to the Father through Jesus, because of what He did at Calvary. God wants us to know Him ... and He has provided everything necessary to make that possible. But we so often want to engage in religious—yes "Christian"—rituals and practices and go through various motions and actions, rather than simply getting to know HIM by spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him. Your spouse doesn't want you just to buy things and do things and give gifts. HE/she wants your love, they want your time, they want that special relationship that marriage gives. They don't need a sign of your love, they want that love itself. And nothing you can do, give or suppl;y can substitute for that actual love. God wants us the same way.

The intellectualization of Christianity has not led to a greater knowledge of God. It has led to the many destructive theologies that pollute the churches. The multitudes of pastors who have no discernment and who do not know the truth of God's Word but rather are versed in all the "fine" points of intellectual theology they have been taught are the result and thus the reason why so many churches are either dead or are following false doctrines. And the growth of church and Christian "help" ministries and the proliferation of Christian self-help books are evidence of the lack of relationship the average church-goer has with Jesus Christ.

God help us! The lack of that relationship is not His fault. It is solely ours. Let us get back on our faces in humility before God, accept His Word as it is written, and then allow Him to build with each of us the individual, personal relationship He desires to have with us.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
And the best way to " feel confident in Him" is to have an actual relationship with Him. Just as real as you have with your spouse, or your best friend, or anybody else. Christianity is not a philosophy, it is not a religion, it is not even the believing of certain truths. It is a one-on-one, personal, living relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The Word tells us that we have boldness of access directly to the Father through Jesus, because of what He did at Calvary. God wants us to know Him ... and He has provided everything necessary to make that possible. But we so often want to engage in religious—yes "Christian"—rituals and practices and go through various motions and actions, rather than simply getting to know HIM by spending time with Him, talking to Him, and listening to Him. Your spouse doesn't want you just to buy things and do things and give gifts. HE/she wants your love, they want your time, they want that special relationship that marriage gives. They don't need a sign of your love, they want that love itself. And nothing you can do, give or suppl;y can substitute for that actual love. God wants us the same way.

The intellectualization of Christianity has not led to a greater knowledge of God. It has led to the many destructive theologies that pollute the churches. The multitudes of pastors who have no discernment and who do not know the truth of God's Word but rather are versed in all the "fine" points of intellectual theology they have been taught are the result and thus the reason why so many churches are either dead or are following false doctrines. And the growth of church and Christian "help" ministries and the proliferation of Christian self-help books are evidence of the lack of relationship the average church-goer has with Jesus Christ.

God help us! The lack of that relationship is not His fault. It is solely ours. Let us get back on our faces in humility before God, accept His Word as it is written, and then allow Him to build with each of us the individual, personal relationship He desires to have with us.

W:pray:W Matt! WOW! I have never, in all my searching, heard anything like this! My goodness, I wish I had a long time ago!
 
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Kist

Member
Excellent post as always Adrian.

A relationship with Christ is the most precious thing in life, in fact it is so precious that I must admit the one fear I got and that is losing that. Which I know is totally biblically unsound and such, but I suppose it is what falling short sometimes does to me.

I also did some more thinking about gifts, and came to another insight, which is that we often see Gifts as something we receive, and then it is OUR gift, and we can choose what we do with it, and when we do it. Well this just isn't true, receiving a Gift is something that doesn't happen to one for our glory, or because of our merit. Once you receive His gift for you, you become a sort of vessel for Him, and you are called to use that Gift for Him and His glory. The old saying goes with great power comes great responsibility, the same goes for the Great Gifts He gives.
 

Nell

Member
There has been so much good meat in this thread. You can't help but to learn from all of these wonderful posts from such knowlegable people.

Meg, thank you on starting a topic such as this, Since I have determined that I can't speak in tongues, I looked at the things that I am talented in that God can enhance. Back in college I used to love public speaking. I would often enter speaking competions and place in the top tier of the US. I can go infront of a crowd of a million and not blink. But, alas, I don't think I am called to the ministry because I am female. So, I am still working on finding out what I have/ who I am. I did ask the Lord that question you suggested me to ask Him "Who do you think I am " I haven't gotten a response yet. But I am patiently waiting.

BTW Meg, I may be wrong, but it seems you also have the gift of encouragement.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
There has been so much good meat in this thread. You can't help but to learn from all of these wonderful posts from such knowlegable people.

Meg, thank you on starting a topic such as this, Since I have determined that I can't speak in tongues, I looked at the things that I am talented in that God can enhance. Back in college I used to love public speaking. I would often enter speaking competions and place in the top tier of the US. I can go infront of a crowd of a million and not blink. But, alas, I don't think I am called to the ministry because I am female. So, I am still working on finding out what I have/ who I am. I did ask the Lord that question you suggested me to ask Him "Who do you think I am " I haven't gotten a response yet. But I am patiently waiting.

BTW Meg, I may be wrong, but it seems you also have the gift of encouragement.

:yeah: Good for you Nell! It was exactly for people like you that I started this thread! :hug

OK, that being said, I am very firmly convinced that just because the word "gifts" is what the translators used, doesn't mean these are "little presents" handed off lightly. The Greek word is Charisma, but that isn't the same as the American use of the word. In English, charisma means "attractive", basically, but in Greek, it means something more like a royal bestowal of something very valuable, something we must take care of, as we might fine silver or highest quality porcelain, or for the men, a really expensive car. You get the idea.

The next aspect of all this, is that the Lord must train and prepare us before we are ready to use these gifts He sees in us. If I have the gift of encouragement, and I well might, that is only because I know so much about loneliness and suffering, both my own and that of my closest friends. I have shared in some very serious tragedies, both the sudden kind and the kind where someone's hopes and life unravels slowly and very painfully. No one understands pain like the one who has been through it...

Then there are the serving gifts, such as speaking and writing. We can only discuss what we know. Therefore, if we wish to discuss Jesus Christ, we must spend time in His Word and in deep, private, and hopefully lengthy prayer. If that sounds like work, really, in practice, its not. The process of getting to know the Son Of God is just spectacular, because His perceptions are so much cooler than anything you could find anywhere else! Anyone, absolutely anyone who has really taken the time to get to know Him expresses themself with a level of awe and wonder that speaks of Another, rather than speaking of ourselves. It just shows, because people who are really serious about the Lord talk about how He changed our point of view, rather than how we might have found the best way to get something out of Him.

So do pray, asking the Lord how you might serve Him. The two most important things we could do are to reach the lost and strengthen the faithful. One glance at the apostasy board will tell just how important it really is to first make sure you are doing more good than harm by the largest margin possible on the side of pointing others to Christ. It also matters what unbelievers think of us, as they are our harshest critics. Have you ever heard of a "back seat driver"? Thats a person in a car who isn't driving, but has plenty of advice for the person who is driving, and unbelievers and weak believers are the back seat drivers criticizing everything other Christians are doing when its evident we are trying to get good at this...

So it might be OK to suggest that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are hard to find but easy to use, because when it does flow, it flows very smoothly, maybe making us look better than we know we are. But lets see what Mattfivefour says to all this :hide :lol:
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
:lol: I think I have said it, sis—
Stop worrying about your gifts! Start living for Christ. Start that process of daily surrendering to Him. Daily reckoning yourselves dead to your own lives, hopes, dreams, desires, plans, and purposes ... and alive only to serve Him. THEN you will begin to see gifts operating in your lives. God doesn't give and say "Use". He simply says "Go". And when you go you will find He has given what you need.

As Nell said earlier, "There is good meat in this thread" and indeed there is. But ultimately I return to the statement I made above. It is in the doing that the gifts are revealed and in the doing that they are perfected. First ask and ask for whatever gifts He wishes to give you not for the possession of them but that you may serve Him in the way He wants. Then just begin to do the little things that are placed before you, the little things that become obvious to you; and as you are faithful in them, much more will be given you. (Luke 16:10; Matthew 25:21,23)

I hope this helps.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
The thing is Matt, at least in my case, I got really worried, I don't remember exactly when, maybe 2005 or so... Anyway, I felt the Lord was putting all this work into me and not getting much return in me being much use to Him. I prayed really deeply about that, and He said I wasn't ready. He explained that He was working through a complex process, and indeed, He was. Thats why I said what I did. But I still respect your opinions and insights, you come up with some very profound material!
 
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Meg

Well-Known Member
In prayer this morning, the Lord asked me to revisit my prayer journal. What I am about to share here is part of an entry I seem to have forgotten to date, but it was sometime between Oct. 07 and March '08. First, a bit of background... People who are sensitive and empathetic to the hurts of others suffer terribly without the support of the Holy Spirit. In the days of my own youth, it was the beautiful people, the ones who really cared about others who died young... They'd try to numb their sensitivity with drugs; they were the heaviest users... They were usually very gifted in art or music as well. Two of my closest friends were like this. Bruce, my homosexual brother and closest friend I have spoken of often. There was another, Paul, of whom I rarely speak online. Paul saved my life when I was 16, in great danger, thousands of miles from home. He took me under his 21 year old wing by teaching me how to take care of myself on the streets of a beach town in S California, so I could stay out of trouble at least for a while... Paul was a delightful person, warm, funny, wise for his brief years and one of the most gifted musicians I have ever heard play any instrument anytime anywhere. He played guitar... He died at 23 from complications of drug abuse and depression. The following is from my prayer journal:

...An observation I worked out with the Holy Spirit this morning in prayer. I was thinking about Bruce and how he died. And Paul and how he died, and how obviously gifted they both were. And I always hang on to TD Jakes lovely statement that God didn't give anybody everything, but He gave everybody something. I was thinking that satan takes special delight in destroying especially gifted people, but the Holy Spirit said that satan goes after people who discover and express their gifts and that people who think they are not gifted simply are blind to their gifts. I am quite certain that folks who enter into Eternal Life will find gifts they never guessed were there. The bottom line is that the devil is on a focused mission to kill the beauty in people. And my deepest heart prayer is that God grant us a way to make it stop.
 

Meg

Well-Known Member
Journaling? TD Jakes? :fear :hide :runaway:

The "journal" is a plain old notebook in which I have occasionally recorded things that seemed important. I'm glad I have it, as it really shows how far I've come, and it also helps me keep track of things like what year something happened, and details I would have forgotten.

As to Jakes, he used to do a lot right. Very right. As to what he's doing now, I haven't watched TV in over 2 years, and I find unduly worrying in apostasy in which neither I nor anyone I know participates in to be draining.

If anyone feels they must bash a preacher someone else has been listening to, the only decent thing to do is offer a positive alternative. To destroy what someone does have without replacing it with something better is cruel.
 

micah719

an adopted son of The Most High God John 6:37-40
The Bible. Read it again and again, until you know it at least as well as the multitude of preachers out there...that way the dodgy ones won't find it so easy to pull the wool over your eyes, and maybe you can even help others. Why get your spiritual food second hand?

The devil has been casting doubt on God's Word since the beginning. Eve added to the Word, subtracted from it, doubted it, and disobeyed it. The Lord Jesus Christ defeated the devil by sticking to Scripture, especially when the devil tried to trick Him by twisting it.

There's enough material on this forum about Mr Jakes, and members that know much more about him than I do. Perhaps there are also some that know a bit more about journaling. Though perhaps it is a waste of time....
 
In prayer this morning, the Lord asked me to revisit my prayer journal. What I am about to share here is part of an entry I seem to have forgotten to date, but it was sometime between Oct. 07 and March '08. First, a bit of background... People who are sensitive and empathetic to the hurts of others suffer terribly without the support of the Holy Spirit. In the days of my own youth, it was the beautiful people, the ones who really cared about others who died young... They'd try to numb their sensitivity with drugs; they were the heaviest users... They were usually very gifted in art or music as well. Two of my closest friends were like this. Bruce, my homosexual brother and closest friend I have spoken of often. There was another, Paul, of whom I rarely speak online. Paul saved my life when I was 16, in great danger, thousands of miles from home. He took me under his 21 year old wing by teaching me how to take care of myself on the streets of a beach town in S California, so I could stay out of trouble at least for a while... Paul was a delightful person, warm, funny, wise for his brief years and one of the most gifted musicians I have ever heard play any instrument anytime anywhere. He played guitar... He died at 23 from complications of drug abuse and depression. The following is from my prayer journal:

...An observation I worked out with the Holy Spirit this morning in prayer. I was thinking about Bruce and how he died. And Paul and how he died, and how obviously gifted they both were. And I always hang on to TD Jakes lovely statement that God didn't give anybody everything, but He gave everybody something. I was thinking that satan takes special delight in destroying especially gifted people, but the Holy Spirit said that satan goes after people who discover and express their gifts and that people who think they are not gifted simply are blind to their gifts. I am quite certain that folks who enter into Eternal Life will find gifts they never guessed were there. The bottom line is that the devil is on a focused mission to kill the beauty in people. And my deepest heart prayer is that God grant us a way to make it stop.

:(( Jim had a brother years and years ago that also succumbed to drugs for a period of his life. His brother used to play the guitar and was very talented, but once He came to Christ, he put it aside as it was too much of a reminder of his past. He turned his life around, loved the Lord and started playing the guitar again and writing music. He had young children and a wife that loved him. His life was looking up. One day an aneurysm burst in his brain and a few days later he died. The years of his life that were wasted on drugs...Satan fed him lies once he came to the Lord that writing music would be dangerous. Again, years wasted. Jim does have the peace of knowing that he will see his brother again one day, but a talented life snuffed out way too soon. I wish I had met him! We never know where an inspiring message will come from! God can use anything at any time! We just have to "hear His voice".
 

Kist

Member
If I look at the story you tell Keeplookingup, I am reminded of something. We often focus too much on our own capabilities, without remembering we are new beings in Christ. This man you speak off, he was scared because his flesh would have fallen back were it not for God. This fear is understandable, it is something that can only go away through learning to listen to the spirit, and trusting in God. Yes it is a shame he "wasted" those years, but we all go through that process. That is one of the reasons why a sin ridden life before we come to Christ is such a burden, everything we do in life has it's consequences sadly. I think all of us here would love to have done certain things differently in our lives at one point, but the important thing is to make it contribute to good in the end.
 

GlennO

Well-Known Member
I can not breeze by an endorsement of T.D Jakes. He is not okay!


When questioned for his opulent lifestyle, including an expensive home and a Mercedes-Benz automobile, Jakes merely refers to himself as an investor and an author. The Apostle Peter, however, said, “silver and gold have I none” (Acts 3:6).

It is obvious that the religion business is very lucrative for some. The Dallas Observer magazine reports:

“His conferences draw tens of thousands. His television show, broadcast on both the Trinity Broadcasting Network and Black Entertainment Television, reaches hundreds of thousands. He has spawned his own industry, T.D. Jakes Ministries, which sells his books — 10 in all, with five best-sellers — and videotapes, the income from which allowed him to spend nearly $1 million last year on a residence in his hometown of Charleston, West Virginia.”11

The Dallas Observer goes on to report: [circa 1996]

“He says he is not embarrassed by this, even though his extravagant lifestyle has caused controversy in his hometown that will likely follow him to Dallas. His suits are tailored. He drives a brand new Mercedes. Both he and his wife Serita are routinely decked out in stunning jewelry. His West Virginia residence — two homes side by side — includes an indoor swimming pool and a bowling alley. These homes particularly caused the ire of the local folks. One paper wrote at length about the purchase and made much of their unusual features. A columnist dubbed Jakes ‘a huckster.’”12

Yet, what is most disturbing about Jakes’ prosperity is not the wealth itself, but his false teaching about Jesus to justify his fortune. The Dallas Observer shares further:

“Besides, Jakes says — during an interview and in his sermons — Jesus was a rich man. He had to have been, in order to have supported his disciples and their families during his ministry.”13

To add to his false and mythical Christ, Jakes brazenly says:

“The myth of the poor Jesus needs to be destroyed, because it’s holding people back.”14


Jakes obviously perverts the true biblical picture of Jesus in an effort to advocate his own lifestyle. The Fort Worth Star Telegram reports:

“Jakes, who drives a Mercedes, has moved with his wife and their five children to a luxurious seven-bedroom home with swimming pool in the White Rock Lake area of Dallas. He said the home cost more than $1 million. ‘I do think we need some Christians who are in first class as well as coach,’ Jakes said.”15

Sadly, in the case of so many prosperity teachers, they are the ones flying in “first class” by way of the donations of their impoverished flock while the latter fly in “coach” — or miss the flight altogether because they lack the money to even buy a ticket.

All this when the Scripture is so very clear: “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich” (2 Corinthians 8:9). Our spiritual riches came only because he stripped and divested Himself of all earthly goods (Ephesians 1:3).

Archaeological excavations of Nazareth in the 1950s demonstrates the little village to have been occupied in Jesus’ day by poor agricultural people.16 As we’ve seen Scripture clearly shows the poverty of Jesus.

More at link
full article and footnotes
"Get Ready" for T.D. Jakes - The Velcro Bishop

2nd source link: http://apprising.org/2008/09/05/keeping-you-apprised-of-td-jakes-on-the-trinity/
 
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