What proof is there that the Jesus and the Apostles existed?

B@rry

Defender of the Faith
I would like to prove the authenticity of the New Testament from an historical point of view as I am responding to questioners on various secular forums and youtube.

Can you suggest some objective evidence that the Apostles and Jesus existed other than the New Testament? Or maybe prove that the New Testament writings are historically accurate.

Many thanks guys.
 

Steve53

Well-Known Member
I've never yet encountered one self professed atheist that could offer a cogent and credible rationale for their disbelief that could withstand intellectually honest scrutiny.

Unbelief is nothing more than rebellion against God and the knowledge He has placed of Himself in every human heart.

If one is up for the apologetic discussion that will surely follow, try asking an atheist if they are really truly sure they're an atheist and not an agnostic...
 

mattfivefour

Well-Known Member
Great advice, Steve! I've always liked the two circles approach to atheists. Draw a huge circle that represents ALL of the knowledge in the entire universe. Then ask the atheist how much of it he possesses. It helps to remind him that Albert Einstein said that he (and mankind in general) did not even know one thousandth of one percent of the knowledge in the universe. Disagree with Einstein and say we know a full percent of it. Then inside the big circle draw a small circle representing our one percent of all knowledge in the universe. Now ask the atheist if we only know what is in the small circle, is it reasonable to believe that there are things in that vast big circle that we do not know. Then, is it not possible that God could exist somewhere in that 99 percent we do not know? If he reluctantly agrees, then tell him he is not an atheist, he is an agnostic.

If he persists in saying it is NOT possible for God to exist in the 99% we do not know, then he is simply ignorant in making declarations about something that exists outside of his knowledge.

Guaranteed to produce a fun time for all! :hehheh
 

Rez63

Active Member
F
Great advice, Steve! I've always liked the two circles approach to atheists. Draw a huge circle that represents ALL of the knowledge in the entire universe. Then ask the atheist how much of it he possesses. It helps to remind him that Albert Einstein said that he (and mankind in general) did not even know one thousandth of one percent of the knowledge in the universe. Disagree with Einstein and say we know a full percent of it. Then inside the big circle draw a small circle representing our one percent of all knowledge in the universe. Now ask the atheist if we only know what is in the small circle, is it reasonable to believe that there are things in that vast big circle that we do not know. Then, is it not possible that God could exist somewhere in that 99 percent we do not know? If he reluctantly agrees, then tell him he is not an atheist, he is an agnostic.

If he persists in saying it is NOT possible for God to exist in the 99% we do not know, then he is simply ignorant in making declarations about something that exists outside of his knowledge.

Guaranteed to produce a fun time for all! :hehheh
Funny how atheism proves Rom 1:21-22 to be true!!
 

Steve53

Well-Known Member
....

If he persists in saying it is NOT possible for God to exist in the 99% we do not know, then he is simply ignorant in making declarations about something that exists outside of his knowledge.

Yup. Willfully ignorant and without an excuse before God.

Guaranteed to produce a fun time for all! :hehheh

Hopefully not fun for the atheist in the sense that making them uncomfortable with their lack of belief might lead them to seek the Lord.
 

railfan727

Active Member
I've never yet encountered one self professed atheist that could offer a cogent and credible rationale for their disbelief that could withstand intellectually honest scrutiny.

Unbelief is nothing more than rebellion against God and the knowledge He has placed of Himself in every human heart.

If one is up for the apologetic discussion that will surely follow, try asking an atheist if they are really truly sure they're an atheist and not an agnostic...

Unbelief is nothing less than absolute foolishness in the eyes of the Lord. Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1
 

Geri7

Well-Known Member
Perhaps you might want to post this Great Hymn for the Atheists

I serve a risen Savior
He’s in the world today.
I know that He is living,
Whatever men may say.
I see His hand of mercy;
I hear His voice of cheer;
And just the time I need Him
He’s always near.

Chorus:
He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!
He walks with me and talks with me along life’s narrow way.
He lives, He lives, salvation to impart!
You ask me how I know He lives?
He lives within my heart.

In all the world around me
I see His loving care,
And though my heart grows weary,
I never will despair;
I know that He is leading,
Through all the stormy blast;
The day of His appearing
Will come at last.

Rejoice, rejoice, O Christian,
Lift up your voice and sing
Eternal hallelujahs
To Jesus Christ the King!
The Hope of all who seek Him,
The Help of all who find,
None other is so loving,
So good and kind.
 

paidinfull

Well-Known Member
Question: "Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"

Answer:
Typically, when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with “outside of the Bible.” We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D., more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.

It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.

Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html#ixzz3ZXlTy0ts
 
That is excellent advice, B@rry. These books give irrefutable evidence for the truth of the existence of Jesus and the Apostles. All from secular and extra-biblical sources. Historically, there is far less evidence that Socrates, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, and a host of other historical figures existed than there is about Jesus and the Apostles.

There is some very good and deepo apologetic information on the http://www.provethebible.net/ website. An almost exhaustive list of topics is covered. Including what you are looking for. And it's free. (Their article specifically on whether there ever was a Jesus may be found on this page: http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201.htm#21 )

I also highly recommend to ALL Christians the page: http://www.provethebible.net/prooftest.htm

Ha! I just got that book (New Evidence That Demands a Verdict)... added it to my arsenal of growing books! Excellent!
 

railfan727

Active Member
Well... a profound thought just hit me the other day.

If the Bible is merely a human construct as the non believers claim, knowing what we know about human nature (pride), who would have ever written something like "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) completely on their own?
 

Hol

Worships Him
Well... a profound thought just hit me the other day.

If the Bible is merely a human construct as the non believers claim, knowing what we know about human nature (pride), who would have ever written something like "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) completely on their own?
:amen
 
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