Signs of the times (MOVED from Terrifying weather in DFW metroplex thread)

**GlennO** · April-4th-2012, 06:55 PM

Little Joe said:

We better be looking up as the signs of the times are speeding up................

Joe, I am so thankful My Redeemer chose to have me live in the age where the SUPER-sign [Israel] has been revealed! Your repeated exhortations to HIS Church to be "looking up" are careless and uninformed and could actually stumble the new babes among us. Whether a believer believes in the rapture doctrine or not has NOTHING to do with a believer's salvation. No one but the Father knows when Abba will say "Go Get Her Son!" Those covered by His Blood are going up at that trumpet call!

There is no function, action nor degree of vigilance that will assure the catching up of the Church when the fullness of the Gentiles is to be completed.

Looking up will simply give you a stiff neck! As I stated on another of your posts, Jesus taught us to 'Engage in business until I come.' Luke 19:13b ESV

Let's be found as occupiers doing what is pleasing to our Redeemer at the sound of the "Upward Call".

Maranantha!

**Littlejoe** · April-4th-2012, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by GlennO

Little Joe said:

Joe, I am so thankful My Redeemer chose to have me live in the age where the SUPER-sign [Israel] has been revealed! Your repeated exhortations to HIS Church to be "looking up" are careless and uninformed and could actually stumble the new babes among us. Whether a believer believes in the rapture doctrine or not has NOTHING to do with a believer's salvation. No one but the Father knows when Abba will say "Go Get Her Son!" Those covered by His Blood are going up at that trumpet call!

There is no function, action nor degree of vigilance that will assure the catching up of the Church when the fullness of the Gentiles is to be completed.

Looking up will simply give you a stiff neck! As I stated on another of your posts, Jesus taught us to 'Engage in business until I come.' Luke 19:13b ESV

Let's be found as occupiers doing what is pleasing to our Redeemer at the sound of the "Upward Call".

Maranantha!

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Well i think i will take what Jesus said in Luke 21..Look...Up.Because in an hour you think not your lord doth come.

**mattfivefour** · April-7th-2012, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Littlejoe

Well i think i will take what Jesus said in Luke 21..Look...Up.Because in an hour you think not your lord doth come.

Respectfully, bro, the teaching here that "your Lord doth come" is speaking of the Second Coming, not His coming for the Rapture.

And the "look up" here does not mean "lift your eyes to the sky". It means "straighten up your posture", in other words, "stop being bowed down". The word is anakupto. It is the word used earlier in Luke when the story of Jesus healing the crippled woman is told. Luke 13:11 says, "And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up." The word translated "straighten up" is anakupto. So the thought in Luke 21 is to cease being bowed down by what has happened to you and instead straighten up because the end of that tribulation is at hand. And this teaching is meant for Israel not the Church. Let me explain.

Jesus has just revealed to his disciples (and those others gathered around) an absolutely terrifying litany of horrors to come. He has just told them that men "will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake.“ And He warns "you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and everyone will hate you."

He says that then "Jerusalem will be surround by armies" and adds that those will be "days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles!"

Then, he says, "nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom", and "there will be great earthquakes", and there will be "plagues and famines" all over, and there will be "terrors and great signs from heaven ... signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

But, he says ... those who are my people at that time should stop being bowed down and instead straighten up, because their redemption from all of these horrors is drawing nigh— He, Yeshua ha Mashiach ... Jesus the Christ ... Himself will come in the clouds "with great power and glory!" The end of their horrors is at hand!

As Robert correctly points out, then, these words are for Israel, not for the Church. The saints who comprise the Church will have been removed by God at least seven years prior to this moment. Specifically, this promise is to the one third of Tribulation-period Israel who shall survive the days of the outpouring of God's Wrath. "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land (ie: Israel), saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." (Zechariah 13:8-9)

Therefore the "look up" —which really means "straighten up, stop being bowed down by the heavy tribulation you are going through"— is an exhortation to those descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (in other words to those men and women of Israel) who will have made it to the end of the outpouring of the wrath of God. "Be no longer bowed down! Straighten up! The end is here! Your Redeemer comes! You are safe!" And then, as it says in Zechariah 12:10 "they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

And then the glorious end is revealed ... that "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land." (Zechariah 13:1-2) Then, as Ezekiel says in a number of places (in chapters 36, 38, 39, if I recall correctly) God will sanctify Himself in Israel, all Israel will be His, and because of Israel all the nations of the world will worship Him.

See, brother, how important it is to correctly discern what of God's Word relates to Israel and what relates to the Church? He has given great promises and great hope to nation Israel here. But to us in other passages (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9) He has given an equally great promise and an equally great hope (in fact in terms of us personally we could consider it even greater)— We will not go through the Great Tribulation, we will not be subject to the wrath of God, but we will be kept safe from all of these horrors. To us this is indeed possibly the greatest promise.

But to all creation, including the Church and the world, the greatest promise of all is THIS: that following the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on earth, God will deal finally with sin and Satan, then dissolve all that now exists in fervent fire, and totally remake Creation. There will be a new heaven and a new earth (Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1)—totally free from all corruption, decay, and sin ... a perfect Creation ... perfect for all eternity.

And it is there that we shall dwell ... with God ... forever.

**GlennO** · April-9th-2012, 02:36 AM

Brother Matt !! Thank you for that solid exposition !! Plenty of Light and meat for all!

**2Timothy4:1-5** · April-9th-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by mattfivefour

Respectfully, bro, the teaching here that "your Lord doth come" is speaking of the Second Coming, not His coming for the Rapture.

And the "look up" here does not mean "lift your eyes to the sky". It means "straighten up your posture", in other words, "stop being bowed down". The word is anakupto. It is the word used earlier in Luke when the story of Jesus healing the crippled woman is told. Luke 13:11 says, "And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up." The word translated "straighten up" is anakupto. So the thought in Luke 21 is to cease being bowed down by what has happened to you and instead straighten up because the end of that tribulation is at hand. And this teaching is meant for Israel not the Church. Let me explain.

Jesus has just revealed to his disciples (and those others gathered around) an absolutely terrifying litany of horrors to come. He has just told them that men "will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake.“ And He warns "you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and everyone will hate you."

He says that then "Jerusalem will be surround by armies" and adds that those will be "days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles!"

Then, he says, "nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom", and "there will be great earthquakes", and there will be "plagues and famines" all over, and there will be "terrors and great signs from heaven ... signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

But, he says ... those who are my people at that time should stop being bowed down and instead straighten up, because their redemption from all of these horrors is drawing nigh— He, Yeshua ha Mashiach ... Jesus the Christ ... Himself will come in the clouds "with great power and glory!" The end of their horrors is at hand!

As Robert correctly points out, then, these words are for Israel, not for the Church. The saints who comprise the Church will have been removed by God at least seven years prior to this moment. Specifically, this promise is to the one third of Tribulation-period Israel who shall survive the days of the outpouring of God's Wrath. "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land (ie: Israel), saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." (Zechariah 13:8-9)

Therefore the "look up" —which really means "straighten up, stop being bowed down by the heavy tribulation you are going through"— is an exhortation to those descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (in other words to those men and women of Israel) who will have made it to the end of the outpouring of the wrath of God. "Be no longer bowed down! Straighten up! The end is here! Your Redeemer comes! You are safe!" And then, as it says in Zechariah 12:10 "they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

And then the glorious end is revealed ... that "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land." (Zechariah 13:1-2) Then, as Ezekiel says in a number of places (in chapters 36, 38, 39, if I recall correctly) God will sanctify Himself in Israel, all Israel will be His, and because of Israel all the nations of the world will worship Him.

See, brother, how important it is to correctly discern what of God's Word relates to Israel and what relates to the Church? He has given great promises and great hope to nation Israel here. But to us in other passages (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9) He has given an equally great promise and an equally great hope (in fact in terms of us personally we could consider it even greater)— We will not go through the Great Tribulation, we will not be subject to the wrath of God, but we will be kept safe from all of these horrors. To us this is indeed possibly the greatest promise.

But to all creation, including the Church and the world, the greatest promise of all is THIS: that following the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on earth, God will deal finally with sin and Satan, then dissolve all that now exists in fervent fire, and totally remake Creation. There will be a new heaven and a new earth (Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1)—totally free from all corruption, decay, and sin ... a perfect Creation ... perfect for all eternity.

And it is there that we shall dwell ... with God ... forever.

Very Nice!!!!