Jerusalem the Garden of Eden?

[eddie]

Jimmy DeYoung spoke at my church yesterday and said he believed that the garden was exactly where Solomon built the Temple in Jerusalem. Jimmy DeYoung lived in Jerusalem for 18 yrs while he studied Biblical prophecy. He's a great speaker. Just wanted to get some thoughts on this subject.

[FaithInChrist]

When I saw the title I immediately thought you must have been listening to Jimmy DeYoung. I honestly do not know. He believes that Adam was created on the land the Temple Mount sits on and that area was/is where The Garden of Eden exists. He believes that the word "Eastward" in "Eastward in Eden" means not a location, but a time, as in "beforehand in Eden".

Honestly, I do not have enough biblical insight to know how this holds up to what other's believe. I do believe that God holds that parcel of land very dear, and perhaps this is where man was brought forth?

[mattfivefour]

The biblical description of Eden's location (Genesis 2:10-14) based on its 4 rivers would tend to indicate that it could not have been at the site of historical Jerusalem.

[nillapoet]

In Grant Jeffery's book Unveiling Mysteries of the Bible, he talks about where he thinks the garden is located. He gives a lot of good reasons.

I just wish I could remember anything from that chapter.

[JC1949]

well.......me not going back to the Garden..of EDEN......
Actually I am more interested in the Garden of Gethsemane where our Savior prayed before going to the cross.....and where has been shown that there is NO other way,but the cross,HIS DEATH on that cross for ALL my (yours and everybody else ) sins.....

When we will FINALLY be with HIM,I am sure we will know about Eden and all.....I am just waiting FOR HIM to come a catch us UP an AWAY....

[seank6]

The biblical description of Eden's location (Genesis 2:10-14) based on its 4 rivers would tend to indicate that it could not have been at the site of historical Jerusalem.

this is what i always thought.. Eddie and I are members of the same church and when Jimmy said that, it was hard to take what the rest he said cause it sounded like opinion instead of biblical fact but he was a good speaker except for that and the fact he was pushing his dvd's and books out in the lobby...

[dave-o]

I'm wondering why it could possibly matter where Eden was.

[seank6]

I'm wondering why it could possibly matter where Eden was.

it doesnt really matter your right ..curiosity as to what someone teaches

[Robert]

Actually, I know right where the Garden of Eden is.....




Antarctica, where the brave Emperor Penguins guard it night and day

[mattfivefour]

[seank6]

Actually, I know right where the Garden of Eden is.....




Antarctica, where the brave Emperor Penguins guard it night and day

no thats where they keep the cheeseburgers cold!

[eddie]

I'm wondering why it could possibly matter where Eden was.

It really doesn't.

[mikhen7]

Adrian (Mattfivefour) is 100% correct. We have the Bibles description of the location of Eden and that is all we need for the facts. However one of the issues was in locating the rivers in order to pinpoint the location or at least a generalized location of it. About 15 years ago I preached a sermon on this very subject, highlighting the locations. Moody Atlas locates it here:
GardenOfEden.jpg


A river flowed out of Eden to water the garden, and there it divided and became four rivers. The name of the first is the Pishon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. And the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is the Gihon. It is the one that flowed around the whole land of Cush. And the name of the third river is the Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. Genesis 2:10-14 (ESV)

The Tigris and the Euphrates Rivers are easy to identify. The Pishon and Gihon are a little more difficult.
Since the Gihon is said to run through the whole land of Cush some have taken it to mean Ethiopia and therefore thrown out the Baby with the Bathwater. Maybe they should study a little more.

Cush ‑ Gen. 10:6‑12. (Ethiopia). It is said that he dwelt in southern Egypt, Abyssnia, Nubia, and Ethiopia. Amos 9:7 gives us an allusion to what seems to be that of Cush being in Ethiopia or the south of Egypt.
He had several sons. Note the Locations of the Sons:

The Sons of Cush

1) Seba ‑ Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9; Ps. 72:10; Is. 43:3, 45:14. Seba is the ancestor of the ancient Sabeans. (see also Sheba). Josephus (Ant. 1:6.2, 2:10.2) places him in Meroe.₂₅ Meroe is the ancient capitol of Ethiopia. It is located about 150 miles north of modern Khartoum, Sudan. It is noted for its rich iron deposits. “The LXX reads Seba as Soene (Aswan), which also underscores an African locale, to the south of Egypt and probably not too far from Cush.”₂₆
2) Havilah ‑ Gen. 2:11, 10:7, 29, 25:18; 1 Chron. 1:9, 23; I Sam. 15:7. They can be located somewhere in the Arabian Peninsula, possibly modern day Yemen. Yemen was known for its gold deposits.
3) Sabtah ‑ Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9. Walvoord places him east of Yemen. Lockyer ‑ middle of south Arabia.
4) Raamah – Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9; Ez. 27:22. According to ancient maps, he can be found in southwestern Arabia.
5) Sabtechah ‑ Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9. Found most likely along the eastern coastal shores of the Persian Gulf. The LXX translates the name Sabathaka, possibly a location along the trade routes in modern Hadhramaut, in the southern Arabian Peninsula.
6) Nimrod ‑ Gen. 10:9‑12; 1 Chron. 1:10; Micah 5:6. Nimrod may be a son of Cush or a direct descendant. He is not listed primarily with the other five sons of Gen. 10:7. Nimrod is the ancient descendant of the inhabitants of Nineveh, Babylon, Asshur, and the Fertile Crescent in Mesopotamia. Genesis 10:10 lists the following names of what I take to be cities or land areas similar to counties: Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh in the land of Shinar (Sumer).

Taken from "Those Who Are Wise Will Shine" Structuring the nations, appendix A, MH author

Prior to the descendants of Shem, Ham, and Japheth migrating to other lands, they lived in ancient Mesopotamia. Even Cush who went to Ethiopia lived there. 5 of his sons were all in the Mesopotamian area. It is highly unlikely that Cush migrated to Africa then bore his children only to see them migrate back to their fathers origins. The land of Cush could also be an early designation of the area in Southern Mesopotamia where he lived prior to migration to Africa. His sons stayed behind. Wikipedia also says as much: The city in the Mesopotamian area which best fits the description is called Kish (derivative of Kush or Cush) located in a plain area (Sumerian 'edin') and resembles an area that is repeatedly flooded by the rivers Euphrates and Tigris.

So there is three of the rivers. But what is most exciting is the fourth, the Pishon which is said to run around the land of Havilah (See Havilah a son of Cush above).. Using satellite imagery Scholars have come to agree that a dried up river bed running across the Arabian Peninsula. read the sub caption under the photo. You will see that scholars are thinking this ancient river covered under the sand and the source of the non-indigenous minerals including gold, bdellium and onyx stone, Gen 2:12, found at its end in Kuwait, is indeed the ancient Pishon river!! Its mouth begins at an area where these minerals are plentious. From there the river carried them across the Arabian Peninsula toward Kuwait and thus across the plains to the Biblical location of where the other 3 rivers spawned. See pics below:

Pishon Aproximate Locale.jpg


You can see the river cutting through the limestone bed under the sand dunes. Amazing what Archaeologists uncover. Again the Bible is proven to be true in its historicity. And definitely Jerusalem is not EDEN!



Eosat/Boston University Center for Remote Sensing

The desert sands of Saudi Arabia appear in brilliant yellow-orange in this satellite photo of a 10,000-square-mile region northwest of Riyadh. Only 4 inches of rain fall annually in Saudi Arabia today, and scholars have assumed that the region was equally arid in ancient times. But the jagged seam cutting through the blue (indicating limestone) at top center suggests otherwise: The seam is part of a river channel, concealed by the sand dunes in the bottom half of the photo, that crossed the Arabian peninsula from about 10,000 B.C.E. until 3500–2000 B.C.E., when it dried up. Dubbed the Kuwait River, the river channel—along with evidence of floods in Mesopotamia, deep lakes in Africa, grasslands and lakes in Arabia, and heavy forest cover along the eastern Mediterranean coast—provides testimony to a lengthy wet period in the ancient Near East.

Although author James Sauer has long doubted that archaeology could uncover evidence of the earliest Biblical stories, he now suggests that the Flood story of Genesis 7:6–8:14 may preserve remembrances of this wet period. The Kuwait River, Sauer argues, may even be the model for the River Pishon, associated with the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:12). BAR

God Bless!!!

[mattfivefour]

Fascinating, bro! Thanks!

[mikhen7]

You are very welcome my most blessed bro. in Christ!! God is awesome isn't He?!!!!
God Bless!!

[Robert]

Here's the thing though:

I honestly don't think that we can know today where the Garden of Eden. When the planet flooded, the old way that things were was literally washed away; hundreds of tons of dirt, sand, rock and mud were displaced by the waters. That would pretty much obscure any trace of where these original rivers were. Yeah, we have a Tigris and Euphrates today, but I don't think they are exactly the original courses, nor are the features the same on the planet.

With that said, Jerusalem is not Eden, and now, I don't think any place on the planet is. Eden is long gone.

[JC1949]

Here's the thing though:

I honestly don't think that we can know today where the Garden of Eden. When the planet flooded, the old way that things were was literally washed away; hundreds of tons of dirt, sand, rock and mud were displaced by the waters. That would pretty much obscure any trace of where these original rivers were. Yeah, we have a Tigris and Euphrates today, but I don't think they are exactly the original courses, nor are the features the same on the planet.

With that said, Jerusalem is not Eden, and now, I don't think any place on the planet is. Eden is long gone.

Robert,you are the best...actually WE are the best,you and ME I mean,I was just going to write down something similar....
BY THE WAY about US being the best,I was only KIDDING,I AM THE BEST!!!!
Now...before I get booted out for lack of humility,I was just KIDDING,joking..... I am in a funny mood today!
Love you bro',lots

[mikhen7]

I agree that the Garden is gone. I agree with that 100%. It perished completely at the flood. But I do not believe God gives us insignificant facts about anything. That river is under tons and tons of sand and it is cut into the bedrock. The fact that Moses was inspired by God to tell us of where it was located even at a time when it was buried under sand tells me that there would be a reason for that information to be available. I believe every word is inspired by God and since that is so, that nothing is insignificant. There are plenty of critical scholars who choose that route without us throwing the towel in with them. If the people will not believe the stones will cry out.

God Bless

[JC1949]

I agree that the Garden is gone. I agree with that 100%. It perished completely at the flood. But I do not believe God gives us insignificant facts about anything. That river is under tons and tons of sand and it is cut into the bedrock. The fact that Moses was inspired by God to tell us of where it was located even at a time when it was buried under sand tells me that there would be a reason for that information to be available. I believe every word is inspired by God and since that is so, that nothing is insignificant. There are plenty of critical scholars who choose that route without us throwing the towel in with them. If the people will not believe the stones will cry out.

God Bless

Bother Mikhen,
i love your studies...pretty good stuff.
Right on bro'

[FaithInChrist]

Jimmy DeYoung gives an explanation as to how the rivers work, he says the Gihon flows under the temple mount. He has many ideals that are not in sync with what I have heard and read in the Bible. For instance, he claims the 200 million man army is not China, or even several Asian countries. He believes they are 200 million evil angels that will be unleashed out of the Abyss. He believes you can repent and still be saved after taking the mark of the beast. He believes Gog/Magog to be Turkey and never mentions Russia. There are more questionable things he believes that I cannot think of right now,. He also believes in the things that matter most, like salvation at the cross, pre-tribe rapture, his sermon on The Judgement Seat of Christ is incredible. He does believe some strange things about Angels that I have been wondering about though.