Man Facing Jail For Hosting Home Bible Study

[Littlejoe]

A Phoenix man has been sentenced to 60 days in jail after he refused to stop hosting Bible studies in the privacy of his home – in violation of the city’s building code laws.

However, the Phoenix city prosecutor’s office said the violations have nothing to do with religious freedom — and everything to do with public safety.

“It came down to zoning and proper permitting,” said Vicki Hill, the chief assistant city prosecutor. “Any time you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does — we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire — and that’s really all this comes down to.”

According to court documents provided to Fox News Radio, Michael Salman was found guilty in the City of Phoenix Court of 67 code violations. He was sentenced to 60 days in jail along with three years probation and a $12,180 fine. He could be jailed as early as next week unless the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals grants an emergency injunction.

Man Facing Jail For Hosting Home Bible Study | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

[chrisb01]

We need to pray so that the court of appeals will reverse this injustice.

To me, the reason is all made up. What about people who fill their house on every holiday and birthdays? They don't get in trouble.

[FaithInChrist]

I bet book clubs are not met with the same resistance. What about children that have friends over daily afterschool? Or Pampered Chef parties, Mary Kay parties or the likes of those? What difference does it make if the "meeting" is one time or several times a fire or accident could happen, even if an event is meeting for the first and only time. I agree, pray for the courts to reverse this ridiculous crime. We are seeing Christians begin to be persecuted right here in America.

[Littlejoe]

This is only the beginning..We haven't seen anything yet,when Obama is re-elected ....

[mattfivefour]

Let's all just step back and think about this for a minute. A home Bible study is one thing. We have been part of many. Even a home worship with a small group of believers. I agree that hassling 20 people in the backyard of a 4.5 acre property is ridiculous and indicates to me an anti-Christian bias on the part of the authorities. However consider this:

The city ignored the Salmans until 2009 – when they built a 2,000 square foot building in their backyard. Salman said he applied for and was granted the proper building permits. He also said the building has passed a city inspection.
“At that point we took our Bible study from our living room – and we moved it into that building,” he said. “We started worshipping in that building every weekend.”

It has chairs for as many as 40 people. There is a pulpit. There’s a sign out front – along with a cross.

Two thousand square feet is the size of many small churches. They worship in it every weekend. And it si equipped like a church. Sounds like a "church building" to me. Municipalities have every right to legislate the nature and size of buildings, including churches, within their jurisdictions. Whatever Pastor Salman is currently engaging in, it is certainly not a "HOME" bible study anymore.

[Hannah]

Mattfivefour beat me to it with what is written in the later part of the article.


A few people in your loungeroom is one thing but to have a lot of people every weekend is more like a Church and along with that you have to have a building with proper fire exits etc... for the safety of your regular visitors and I assume by law this would mean being Insured as well.

He is not hosting an occasional BBQ or party in this building with a family & friends.

However, Hill said Salman has “mischaracterized the facts” of the permit. She said he was given a permit to convert a garage into a game room.

“Any other occupancy or use – business, commercial, assembly, church, etc, is expressly prohibited pursuant to the city of Phoenix building code and ordinances,” she told Fox News Radio.

This is not a good Christian witness!

This is a CODE violation.

[readytogo]

If the case is being reviewed by the 9th circuit court of appeals. That is located in San Francisco and has a reputation of being very "liberal".

[FaithInChrist]

We are the church, and I would hope that if we gathered 7 days a week in a 3000 sq ft building, to celebrate and share our love of the Lord, we would not be descriminated against.

This article doesn't state whether tithings are collected, whether the pastor earns a wage from collected tithings, whether there is a license for a church or a tax exempt status filed in the pastor's name. Those things determine "church" status by government standards.

If you read the article you see that there was discrimination against the family going on from 2005 - 2008, before the large structure was built. I read a few comments and it appears that this family has been discriminated against for years.

I know people that have a "party" once a week, they are not discriminated against as having a night club in their homes. I know people that host an event for every baseball, basketball, football, nascar....you name it sporting event, they are not discriminated against as running a sports bar in their homes.

I certainly don't know if he is a good or bad example of a Christian from the above article.

[Hannah]

We are the church, and I would hope that if we gathered 7 days a week in a 3000 sq ft building, to celebrate and share our love of the Lord, we would not be descriminated against.

This article doesn't state whether tithings are collected, whether the pastor earns a wage from collected tithings, whether there is a license for a church or a tax exempt status filed in the pastor's name. Those things determine "church" status by government standards.

If you read the article you see that there was discrimination against the family going on from 2005 - 2008, before the large structure was built. I read a few comments and it appears that this family has been discriminated against for years.

I know people that have a "party" once a week, they are not discriminated against as having a night club in their homes. I know people that host an event for every baseball, basketball, football, nascar....you name it sporting event, they are not discriminated against as running a sports bar in their homes.

I certainly don't know if he is a good or bad example of a Christian from the above article.

The code if you read it all has the category of Assemblies. So regular gatherings are covered which are not specified as a Church. So even if you don't see it to be a Church it is still an Assembly of people. The prime use of that room is for people to come together as an Assembly.

He has a Suburban Home and if you read to the bottom of the Article is says that Salman has not applied for permission to have the regular gatherings at his home and needs to comply to specific codes so that they meet legal requirements.

So it doesn't matter if you sell Avon or Tupperware and you host a Selling Party with family and friends every weekend you would have to have a legal permit and comply to codes and regulations.

And the courts agreed — noting in a Jan. 4, 2010 ruling: “The state is not saying the Salmans can’t run a church or have worship services at the location. But the state is saying that if they do so, they must do it properly and in accord with fire and zoning codes.”

The Bible is clear on this matter:-

HEB 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Salman is doing exactly what Muslims do, complain this is discrimination but are they actually complying with the law is the question.

Christians are to set an example of being compliant with authorities over them to give a Godly witness. When Salman took it out of his loungeroom which I am sure only held a small number of people and took it to an external building set up for the prime purpose of teaching the Bible it is not a garage/games room as he claimed on his building application.

RO 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

RO 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Please Note the article states that the City authorities actually did not get involved UNTIL the external building was built in 2009!

[mattfivefour]

Hannah has said exactly what I was thinking as I read the OP. This man in asserting his right to do what he wants in this regard is actually harming his—and, by extension, our—Christian witness. Just because he believes he has a right does not mean he should assert it— this is a plain teaching of the NT (Matthew 5:39-40; Romans 12:17, Romans 12:19; 1 Corinthians 6:7; 1 Thessalonians 5:15). (The underlying principle is laid out in Proverbs 20:22.)

The willingness to give up what we believe we have the right to claim for ourselves—be it legal right, the right to justice, the right to justification, the right to any personal act—is more important than the rights themselves. That is one of the hardest things for Christians to learn in the process of sanctification. However, this is not as much a case of failing to do that as it is a case of failing to obey Christ and render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. The Holy Spirit tells us repeatedly in the NT—both through Paul AND through Peter—to submit ourselves and obey all authorities in every matter ... as long as it does not cause us to deny Christ or violate God's commandments. By insisting on what he believes is a fundamental constitutional principle this pastor is actually transgressing a fundamental biblical principle.

[Meg]

I agree with Adrian.

[Carl]

Thank you for the wise post Hannah. You said what I was thinking better than I would have. While reading the new article and others from a search on the internet I cam to the conclusion that he just wanted his own way.

I find many times that if a person approaches the authorities in a reasonable way that something can usually be worked out. If authorities are unreasonable it is usually because their hearts are hardened because of all the people trying to take advantage of the law or codes.

It doesn't appear that he tried to work things out with his neighbors either.

[Hannah]

Thank you for the wise post Hannah. You said what I was thinking better than I would have. While reading the new article and others from a search on the internet I cam to the conclusion that he just wanted his own way.

I find many times that if a person approaches the authorities in a reasonable way that something can usually be worked out. If authorities are unreasonable it is usually because their hearts are hardened because of all the people trying to take advantage of the law or codes.

It doesn't appear that he tried to work things out with his neighbors either.

Yep the neighbours were behind the initial complaints. The major one being the traffic that was noticed going to and from the Property.

We have extra traffic due to a Townhouse Development which did not comply to all the Council regulations. The person in the CVouncil who gave permission overlooked the Councils own regulations about proximity of the driveway to the corner and now we have a constant accidents or near accidents. Five accidents in a few months due to traffic coming in or out of the townhouse site. We litterally go around the block and come from the other direction to enter our property now to avoid driving past it.

Traffic issues are enough reason to get neighbours upset.

[Kris762]

Has the Lord put restrictions on where, when and how many people may congregate to give praise to His name?

Muslims shut down entire blocks during Friday prayers in some parts of Europe, is there outrage? Is there legal action? Are they threatened with imprisonment?

[dave-o]

If the zoning ordinances prohibit such activity then that's that. I do not believe that God approves of us thumbing our noses at the authorities. If the people involved are sincere then God will provide a suitable place for them to worship where they won't risk prosecution and yes, I truly believe that.

We here may live to see the day when the Church is again forced underground and will risk persecution/prosecution no matter where we meet but that day is not here yet.

[Carl]

Has the Lord put restrictions on where, when and how many people may congregate to give praise to His name?

Muslims shut down entire blocks during Friday prayers in some parts of Europe, is there outrage? Is there legal action? Are they threatened with imprisonment?

Europe has different rules and regulations than we have.

In a sense, yes, God has put restrictions on our worship through his governments. One of our big problems is that we are not active enough in government. Thus our side isn't heard. So we get what we get.

But there is always the wild card "the prince of the power of the air", and those wild cards tossed in to the mix.

[Kris762]

Europe has different rules and regulations than we have.

In a sense, yes, God has put restrictions on our worship through his governments. One of our big problems is that we are not active enough in government. Thus our side isn't heard. So we get what we get.

But there is always the wild card "the prince of the power of the air", and those wild cards tossed in to the mix.

Do you think God claims the Obama administration as one of his governments? So where and when do we make a stand for our Lord? The hundreds of thousands or millions of Christians slain over the centuries, did they bow down or refuse to no longer worship or give praise even in the face of death?

Do we obey everything our governments enforce or say is law? Our freedom and right to give praise or worship is being eroded before our eyes. We now answer to governments who condone abortion, same sex marriage and break every rule of the Commandments, they are and have become nothing but vile institutions for the evil. And some attempt to rationalize by stating we must follow what our governments dictate because it is Gods will?

Let me ask you this, the Jews being evicted and removed from the very land God gave them by their own government, is that a good thing?

By no means do I say we go out and break laws, however worship is a harmless form of showing our love and appreciation for the King.

[Kris762]

Year by year, little by little Christians are being persecuted in numerous ways. The public school system has totally erased from it's curriculum any teachings from Scripture along with signage or anything else that relates to Jesus Christ, they now prefer spiritualism or some other new age religious trash. Wont be long before our buildings of worship will be ordered to remove any Crosses or Christian symbols from the outside so as not to offend passage by, wont be long before we are hit with fines for speaking out against homosexuality or abortion, wont be long before Bibles will not be tolerated in public places, wont be long before even uttering the name of the One who sacrificed His life for us will be illegal, wont be long before we are forced to receive the mark for the ones left behind.

I think all of us here can name in more than a few examples of the point I'm trying to make. Perhaps I am wrong...perhaps this particular issue regarding the thread is more clear cut and is in fact a violation of the law. But I can state categorically the time is coming that each and every one of us believers will be required to make a stand for our Lord, it may be unpopular, it most certainly will draw criticism and persecution, but when its a stand against a government thats intent on enforcing a law that is in direct conflict with Gods Word then that's when its going to become all the more difficult, the time is coming and we all know it.

The only thing we can pray for is that we are removed prior to things getting too bad.

[GlennO]

Drat!! I took the headline bait....and got punked....

[GlennO]

Kris762 said:

Do you think God claims the Obama administration as one of his governments? So where and when do we make a stand for our Lord?

Kris - If Obama was wise, he would acknowledge the TRUE King!

Rom 13:1-7
(1) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
(2) Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
(3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
(4) For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(5) Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
(6) For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
(7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.




Rom 13:1-3
D. In relation to authority (Rom_13:1-7)
Rome was the imperial capital, the seat of the empire’s civil government. As residents in Rome, Paul’s initial readers were aware of both the glory and the shame of that city in the days of Nero, who reigned from a.d. 54 to 68. But they were also citizens of Christ’s kingdom (Php_3:20; Col_1:13). Appropriately, therefore, Paul discussed a Christian’s relationship to his government and civil rulers. Both in its length and specific details this discussion is the key New Testament passage on the subject (cf. 1Ti_2:1-4; Tit_3:1; 1Pe_2:13-17).
The apostle’s basic exhortation is, Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities (lit., “higher authorities”). The basic reason for such submission is that those authorities are established by God (cf. Dan_4:17, Dan_4:25, Dan_4:34-35). An individual who rebels against the authority, therefore, is rebelling against (lit., “has taken a stand against”) what God has instituted (lit., “the ordinance of God”). Such persons are thus actually rebelling against God, and bring civil and/or divine judgment on themselves. Those who obey and do right need have no fear of authorities; in fact, civil leaders commend those who do good.

Believer's Bible Commentary