Can Tribulation Saints Lose Their Salvation?

[Kenny64]

Sean:

More correctly, a 70th Week "saint" is, according to the Word of God (Revelation 14:12-13), an individual who will "keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus."

Then who are the one's in Revelation 7:14 ?
14 And I said to him, “Sir,you know.” So he said to me,
“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

[HeIsLord]

Good discussion by all.

Could we step back and look at the bigger picture? Then maybe we will see the answer.

Jesus is only going to have one Bride, and that is the church. He cannot have more than one Bride any more than He can have two bodies. We are THE body of Christ. By church I mean those who accept Jesus as savior post cross, pre-rapture. As His Bride, we enjoy very special privileges. We have eternal life, righteousness, peace with God, we are elevated to the status of brothers and sisters of Christ, we are royalty, we have the priesthood, we are called by His Name, we sit in the throne room of heaven, our prayers ascend to God, etc etc.

When Moses brought the Jews out of bondage in Egypt to the holy mountain in Sinai, tablets were fashioned by God. These are the ketubah, or betrothal tablets, they set forth the rights of the groom with respect to the bride. As everyone knows, when Moses came down the mountain he found the people worshiping a golden calf. The tablets were smashed. The betrothal was off. Israel would never be the bride, only the bridesmaid, or the servant to the Bride. There they sit, behind the veil to this day.

In Revelation we read of "saints", people who "follow the lamb", people who are "sealed". If the verse where we see that does not pertain to the church, then it pertains to the "servants". Think of the royal family in Buckingham palace. If you are a blood relation, you are royalty. If you are not a blood relation, and you live and have your work in the palace, then you are a servant. Do the servants revere the royal family? Do they treasure their favor? Do they love the royal family? All yes. But they are not royalty, they are only servants.

Once you are in the family of God, you cannot lose your royal status any more than you can lose your genetic material. But if you are a servant, you can easily lose your status.

A servant must at once by respectful, even worshipful, but also instantly obedient - or out they go!

We cannot be dogmatic about the Tribulation based on Scripture verses, because words like "elect" "sealed" "believer" likely have different meanings in different covenants or dispensations.

Jack Kelly is right in asserting the bridesmaids are the Tribulation "saints". I personally don't think they are part of the church at all, they are merely God's "servants".

The clothing of the Tribulation saints are not "garments of salvation" such as those wore by we the royal believers, I believe the garments indicate the wearer is respecting the law and following the commandments. The Tribulation saints cannot be the church, so they must be enlightened Jews, maybe even anointed or sealed Jews. As such, should they renounce their Jewish faith, they lose their garments, but not their salvation because they never had salvation (such as the church has) because they are not a part of the church.

My logic derives from a single key assumption: When the church is raptured, the Age of Grace is over.

Hope these thoughts are a blessing. I have enjoyed the discussion.

[mikhen7]

Just to be clear, are you saying that all "70th Week saints" are/will be martyred (and thus, no "70th Week saints" make it to the end of the trib alive, in order to enter the earthly Millennial Kingdom [in their natural bodies])? Or, what do you mean, exactly? Thanks.

I believe Sean is referring to the saints that are before the throne on Rev. 7;14,

¹³ Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" ¹⁴ And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. ¹⁵ Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. ¹⁶ They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; ¹⁷ for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." Revelation 7:13-17 (NKJV)

There certainly will be saints alive to enter the Millennial period to repopulate the earth. Jesus said, "unless those days are shortened no flesh would be saved" Mt. 24;22a so there will be flesh saved. See also Mt 25:31-46

God Bless

[acceptedinthebeloved]

I agree that many trib saints will indeed martyred (Rev 7:13-14), and that some trib saints will endure unto the end of the trib to enter the Millennial Kingdom in their natural bodies (Matt 25:31-34). I just think that it will be possible for believers of that future time period (not being "sealed" with the Spirit, as believers of this Church age are) to not remain "faith-ful" (as seems to be their requirement, at that time; i.e. "pray always, [in order] that" [and Matt 24:48-51, 51; Rev 16:15-16], etc). That's how I presently understand it.

[wakawakawaka]

Good discussion by all.

Could we step back and look at the bigger picture? Then maybe we will see the answer.

Jesus is only going to have one Bride, and that is the church. He cannot have more than one Bride any more than He can have two bodies. We are THE body of Christ. By church I mean those who accept Jesus as savior post cross, pre-rapture. As His Bride, we enjoy very special privileges. We have eternal life, righteousness, peace with God, we are elevated to the status of brothers and sisters of Christ, we are royalty, we have the priesthood, we are called by His Name, we sit in the throne room of heaven, our prayers ascend to God, etc etc.

When Moses brought the Jews out of bondage in Egypt to the holy mountain in Sinai, tablets were fashioned by God. These are the ketubah, or betrothal tablets, they set forth the rights of the groom with respect to the bride. As everyone knows, when Moses came down the mountain he found the people worshiping a golden calf. The tablets were smashed. The betrothal was off. Israel would never be the bride, only the bridesmaid, or the servant to the Bride. There they sit, behind the veil to this day.

In Revelation we read of "saints", people who "follow the lamb", people who are "sealed". If the verse where we see that does not pertain to the church, then it pertains to the "servants". Think of the royal family in Buckingham palace. If you are a blood relation, you are royalty. If you are not a blood relation, and you live and have your work in the palace, then you are a servant. Do the servants revere the royal family? Do they treasure their favor? Do they love the royal family? All yes. But they are not royalty, they are only servants.

Once you are in the family of God, you cannot lose your royal status any more than you can lose your genetic material. But if you are a servant, you can easily lose your status.

A servant must at once by respectful, even worshipful, but also instantly obedient - or out they go!

We cannot be dogmatic about the Tribulation based on Scripture verses, because words like "elect" "sealed" "believer" likely have different meanings in different covenants or dispensations.

Jack Kelly is right in asserting the bridesmaids are the Tribulation "saints". I personally don't think they are part of the church at all, they are merely God's "servants".

The clothing of the Tribulation saints are not "garments of salvation" such as those wore by we the royal believers, I believe the garments indicate the wearer is respecting the law and following the commandments. The Tribulation saints cannot be the church, so they must be enlightened Jews, maybe even anointed or sealed Jews. As such, should they renounce their Jewish faith, they lose their garments, but not their salvation because they never had salvation (such as the church has) because they are not a part of the church.

My logic derives from a single key assumption: When the church is raptured, the Age of Grace is over.

Hope these thoughts are a blessing. I have enjoyed the discussion.

but i thought this site believes that salvation will be open to EVERYONE not just sealed Jews right up to the second coming

[Chris]

but i thought this site believes that salvation will be open to EVERYONE not just sealed Jews right up to the second coming

We do. The tribulation "martyrs" are people from all over the world, not just Jews. That's why the Bible says they are from all nations, tongues, kindreds, etc.

[mattfivefour]

but i thought this site believes that salvation will be open to EVERYONE not just sealed Jews right up to the second coming

Chris's reply to you above is right on target. HeIsLord makes an exegetical mistake (actually a logical fallacy that leads to his exegetical error) when he says "The Tribulation saints cannot be the church, so they must be enlightened Jews ..." The logical error is equating Gentiles with the Church. The Church is both Jew and Gentile. It is gone, but unsaved Jews and Gentiles remain on earth. And it is from these that the Tribulation Saints emerge. Thus to say because the Church is gone the Tribulation Saints can only be Jews is erroneous.