Interesting explanation of the Age of Grace

[Neohistory]

This is a good video I happened to come across. While I do not know much about this individual, he gives a great explanation, using scripture, about the Age of Grace. Found it helpful, maybe someone else will too. He starts out with a talk about the sensationalism or people that are date setting. Good little starter info before he gets into it. Yes, the video is labeled (Rapture Trigger - REVEALED) as the young in faith probably are scrambling to understand prophecy very fast considering the current world events.

Rapture Trigger - REVEALED!! - YouTube

[acceptedinthebeloved]

This is a good video I happened to come across. While I do not know much about this individual, he gives a great explanation, using scripture, about the Age of Grace. Found it helpful, maybe someone else will too. He starts out with a talk about the sensationalism or people that are date setting. Good little starter info before he gets into it. Yes, the video is labeled (Rapture Trigger - REVEALED) as the young in faith probably are scrambling to understand prophecy very fast considering the current world events.

Rapture Trigger - REVEALED!! - YouTube

I agreed with much of what he says, but I disagree that "the fulness of the Gentiles" (Rom 11:25) occurs at the time of our rapture. (He called the age of grace "the time of the Gentiles" a time or two, also... but "the times of the Gentiles" [Luke 21:24b] runs from 606BC to the END of the trib, and is distinct from "the FULNESS of the Gentiles" which is when Israel's blindness will be lifted.)

I don't believe that either "the TIMES of the Gentiles" nor "the FULNESS of the Gentiles" (that is, when they are "fulfilled") has anything to do with the timing of the rapture of the Church. I know that that teaching is popular (Jack Kelley being one who holds to "the fulness of the Gentiles" [Rom 11:25] being the full number of saved members of the Church before we "set sail" in the rapture. I disagree.)

I believe that there is much confusion when we view Romans 9-11 as pertaining to "the Church" instead of to "the Nations" (Israel and the Gentiles), including the false ideas (by Calvinists) that God has chosen (before time) who will go to heaven and who will go to hell, or (by Arminianists) that any member of the Church can lose their salvation. This is because they BOTH view passages within Romans 9-11 as pertaining to "individual salvation" rather than the overall context being "God's purpose in and through NATIONS." (And yes, I do know that a few parts of Rom 10 refers to how an individual is saved: faith.)

In Romans 11:17-22, the Arminianist uses the passage to prove that any member of the Church can lose their salvation ("otherwise thou shalt also be cut off"). Romans 11:25 (the verse that the video-maker uses) is in this context. But again, the broad context is not about "individual salvation" (say, of the members of the Church), but about the Nations (Israel and the Gentiles). My understanding of this verse (Romans 11:25) is that it corresponds more to the passage in Revelation 7:9 and following, when "a great multitude... of all NATIONS" (at some point DURING the trib) are shown to be saved. This, however, is not depicting "the Church" but "trib saints"... and THAT is when I believe "the FULNESS of the Gentiles" takes place (and Israel's blindness lifted). Again, not having to do with the rapture of the Church, which will have taken place well-before that point in time.

(1 Cor 10:32 "Jews, Gentiles, Church of God" distinction)

That's how I understand it. So I basically believe his premise is faulty.

[RandallB]

........ I know that that teaching is popular (Jack Kelley being one who holds to "the fulness of the Gentiles" [Rom 11:25] being the full number of saved members of the Church before we "set sail" in the rapture. I disagree.)

......

Boy, do you have it correct when you state that "Fullness of the Gentiles" referring to the Rapture is a popular teaching.

Here are a few of those that agree with that popular teaching.

Lindsey, Kelley, LaHaye, Ice, Jeffrey, Van Impe, Hagee, Missler, Reagan, Hindson, Strandberg, Fruchtenbaum, et al.


In fact here is a paragraph from an article that Dr Fruchtenbaum wrote.


The Future Destiny of the Universal Church | Bible Prophecy Blog

....

The first thing involved in the future destiny of the Church is that it will be raptured (I Thess. 4:13-18). One of the purposes of the universal church is to take out from among the Gentiles a people for his name. This process will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in, until the set number of believers that God has ordained to be in the Body, then the Body will be complete. Once the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, the Church is going to be raptured. The ones who are going to be raptured are those in Christ. This term used by Paul is a technical term referring only to those in the Body of the Messiah. The Church does not include Old Testament saints, Tribulation saints, or Millennial saints; the Church includes only those who have been saved between Acts 2 and the Rapture. Therefore, the Rapture will include only the Church.

....

I did find that the Orthodox Church disagrees with this popular teaching.

[acceptedinthebeloved]

And I agree with most of that paragraph you quoted (in your post, above), RandallB... including the part about only those saved between Pentecost and the rapture are considered "in Christ"... but that doesn't mean it (the Church/those "in Christ"/rapture-timing) has anything to do with "the fulness of the Gentiles" and Israel's blindness lifted (Romans 11:25), which I believe continues well into the tribulation period (perhaps through to mid-trib, or thereabouts)... the pre-trib rapture of the Church being wholly separate from this.


ETA: I've posted before about how "fulness" (G4138 "plērōma," used in Rom 11:25) can have the meaning, "completeness or fulness of TIME" (see number 2b, at link below), which could mean, the full allotted amount of time given to the Gentiles to be saved (say, by mid-trib or so, for example; Rev 7:9, etc), or something more along those lines... but even if it's "the full number," I don't believe "the full number [of Gentiles]" is actually "full" until some time DURING the trib.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...?strongs=G4138

ETA (again): I think I have just come across the same material you must have been referring to, RandallB, about the Orthodox Church's beliefs regarding this. It sounded much like they hold to the false view of Preterism (and which, for example, does not distinguish the divisions of Luke 21 [Luke 21:8-11, 12-24, 25-36], thinking it was all fulfilled by 70AD.) And, of course, I do not hold that view either.

[acceptedinthebeloved]

Boy, do you have it correct when you state that "Fullness of the Gentiles" referring to the Rapture is a popular teaching.

Here are a few of those that agree with that popular teaching.

Lindsey, Kelley, LaHaye, Ice, Jeffrey, Van Impe, Hagee, Missler, Reagan, Hindson, Strandberg, Fruchtenbaum, et al.

I did want to mention that even a number of these scholars, listed above, hold to some other ideas which I, likewise, believe to be unbiblical:

- Hagee believes that the Antichrist will be a homosexual, based on a wrong understanding of Daniel 11:37

- Missler believes that any member of the Church can (potentially) be excluded from the (Millennial) Kingdom, based on a blurring together of Israel's and the Church's mail, at various points

- Reagan (and at least one other on the list) believes that it is possible for any member of the Church to lose salvation (or forfeit it/give it back/reject it after receiving it... something like that)

- etc

Just sayin'.

[Betty]

The Bible does speak about a delusion being allowed to come upon people during the tribulation. I do believe in the Age of the Gentiles, while I believe Gentiles will be saved during the tribulation, I believe people who know the truth but have rejected it stand a good chance of being one of those that God allows to be deceived. I believe that American will have less people saved during the tribulation then other Countries because we as Americans have free access to so many Christian Materials, Churches, and Bibles. I think it is dangerous for people who know the truth to put off getting saved before the rapture.
betty

[acceptedinthebeloved]

Betty, of course I agree in light of what 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 says (about the "strong delusion" He will send... specifically to those who "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved" and "believed not the truth")... and I certainly do not advocate that anyone, who hears the gospel now, wait until the mid-trib point (or whenever "the fulness of the Gentiles" occurs) to accept Christ, just because we see in Scripture that "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" are shown to be saved during the trib (Rev. 7:9). The "strong delusion" will indeed be very powerful and very real. To wait would be most foolish, I agree.