Special Report: The 'Defeated' Christian

[Chris]

Special Report: The 'Defeated' Christian

Special Report: The 'Defeated' Christian
By Jack Kinsella

You've all seen him. The defeated Christian. The guy who tries and tries, but after being saved for thirty years, he still hasn't quit smoking. Instead, he hides his cigarettes before coming to church and won't get too close when shaking your hand for fear you'll smell the smoke on him.

Or the Christian who you know is saved, but he just can't quite give up the bottle. Or the Christian who got saved, but doesn't go to church, because he just doesn't think he fits in with the rest of the crowd?

Or won't go because he thinks that everybody at church is a big hypocrite? That defeated Christian who knows that even though he is saved, it just didn't seem to 'take' like it seemed to with everybody else, so he'd just as soon not be reminded of it all the time by being around those to whom it did.

Especially since, if he were to mention it, somebody would point out it was either because of some unconfessed sin, or maybe he just wasn't all that sincere when he first accepted Christ.

Why is it that some Christians get saved, and immediately become a new creature, where others get saved, and look remarkably like the old one?

Don't tell me you don't know somebody like that. Maybe you even ARE somebody like that. And it's hard...so hard to keep trying and trying when it seems to come so easy to everybody else. It's enough to make anybody give up.

I'm going to leave the usual beaten path, now, to address an issue that comes up fairly regularly in our forums. Those of you who have no besetting sin, no secret sin in your heart that only you and God (and the enemy) know of, go make yourself a nice cup of coffee. The rest isn't for you.

Now, for the honest readers...Why does God deliver some people from booze, cigarettes, pot...fill in your besetting sin here _______?

The answer? I don't know. Disappointed? Don't be. Sometimes He just doesn't. It doesn't mean you aren't a Christian. It doesn't mean you aren't saved. It doesn't mean God has abandoned you. It only means you feel defeated. You still have that sin.

Now, how come you feel defeated? Is it your weakness? God's? Haven't you been to Him with this? How come its still an issue in your life? You KNOW God is real, so . . what's WRONG WITH YOU?

Nothing.

Welcome to the Church of the Walking Wounded. That's why so many people find fellowship on the internet they don't find in church. No guilt. Nobody can see you sneaking that cigarette or that beer.

You come looking for God, and looking for that forgiveness you keep hearing about, but never find in church.

Instead, you learn that if you smoke, (or whatever) you are defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit and you must give that up first to find fellowship. Except you have been trying for years and just can't quite make it.

You sit there in the pew, thinking about the cigarette you are going to have on the way home, and you feel ashamed, guilty. Why even go back to church? You hypocrite!

You are taught that God forgave you at the Cross, but now you are on your own. All these sins you now know about yourself are left for you to deal with on your own. Only NOW you know what they are.

So every time you sneak that cigarette, you feel guilty. "Fred got saved and within a week, he cut out smoking, he cut out drinking and he cut out cursing."

(You think to yourself, "Sure. And for entertainment, Fred is now cutting out paper dolls in the Happy Home," – but then there you go – you sinned again!)

Sin is the disease of the human race. No human being is exempt from it. The Apostle Paul, speaking of sin, said, "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1 Timothy 1:15)

Creative hyperbole? Or do you believe every Word of God is true?

The Apostle Paul was, according to God's Word, chief among sinners. He must have had a difficult time being chief among sinners and chief among the Apostles, but that's what the Bible says.

It must have bothered him, like it bothers you. (Those not getting coffee right now) Knowing what is right, but succumbing to temptation to do the wrong thing. Over and over.

This is a very difficult subject – I am approaching it with much fear and trepidation. There will immediately be those who will jump on me for preaching a license to sin. I am not.

Before you jump on me, read it again first, please. I am quoting the Apostle Paul, not my opinion.

Paul writes, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (Romans 7:14-15,17)

Maybe Paul isn't speaking to you, but he is playing MY theme song. "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." (Romans 7:22,23)

Does this sound to you like a guy who was having an easy time of it? Why didn't he just do what the pastor tells you? "Just take it to the Lord and He'll take care of it."

Ever do that and then He didn't? So you found some good reason why not, or instead just figured you weren't worthy? Or maybe that He cared more about Fred the King of the Paper Dolls?

Paul wrote of, "a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." (2 Corinthians 12:7) Now, I've heard this verse exegeted many times.

To listen to the theories, Paul must have fallen into a thorn BUSH. I've heard Paul had a speech impediment, that it was his failing eyesight, that he was unattractive to look at, even one argument that he had halitosis!

What does the Bible say Paul's thorn in the flesh was? Everybody looks for something specific to make sense of the verse. They are looking for some physical flaw that Paul thought would hamper his effectiveness for God. In so doing, they miss the forest for the trees.

The Apostle Paul, the 'chief among sinners, specifically said that his thorn was a 'messenger from Satan sent to 'buffet' him. Paul's thorn was his SIN which kept him from being 'exalted above all measure.' "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me." (2 Corinthians 12:8)

Stay with me here and see the picture. Here's poor Paul, knowing the task the Lord has set before him, knowing that he is 'chief among sinners' and knowing his weakness for whatever that sin might have been.

So he takes it to Jesus, (just like you did) sincerely expecting Him to handle it for him, just like the pastor told you He would for you.

"And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness." (v.9)

The Bible says that we are sold unto sin. That it is our natural state. That the most unnatural thing a man could do is NOT sin. You are saved, you believe, yet you wrestle with your besetting sins.

Every time you whip one down, a new one crops up that you have to deal with. It's a never-ending battle and you are losing. How can this be?

How can you be sincere, be sincerely saved, and still battle with sins that don't seem to bother other Christians?

There is only one logical answer. It is so simple you are going to immediately say, "I knew that." But you probably really didn't.

Jesus did it all. Really. ALL. The most simple of principles, yet most preaching is based on the deception that He didn't. Instead, most are taught in principle, that Jesus got the ball rolling at the Cross, but now that you are saved, whether or not you fail or succeed in beating back your sin nature is up to you.

Therefore, when constantly confronted with your sin and how bad it is, it is much easier to give up and not go face the weekly confrontation. You believe you are defeated.

Rather than being free, you are in bondage to your guilt. How many people do you know who went to the altar call on Sunday who weren't guilt-ridden by Wednesday?

Salvation is either a gift of grace through faith or it is a product of faith plus good works.

Moses had faith and good works. So did Abraham. So did David. But without the Savior, they would be dead in their sins.

The bondage of sin to a Christian is the weight of the guilt of that sin that keeps him from seeking God's face. Jesus set us free from the bondage of sin. Is this a license to sin? As Paul said, "God forbid."

"All things", Paul said, "are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." (1 Corinthians 10:23) Interesting word, 'expedient.' It means, "Appropriate to a purpose."

The reality is, we are humans. Even after we become new creatures in Christ, we co inhabit the castle of flesh with the old man.

You will have your battles, but your defeat only comes when you give up. Following Paul's lamentations about his struggle with the flesh and the duality of man, Paul writes, beginning with Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This verse also tends to get spiritualized out of context. I've heard it argued that if you sin, then you are walking after the flesh, rather than after the Spirit.

I put it to you: Did you ever, since you were saved, commit a sin and not care, not feel any responsibility before God? Well, then, Who are you walking after? The irresponsible flesh? Or the living Spirit?

It isn't sin that defeats the Christian.

It isn't that you still haven't quit smoking, or whatever else it might be that you think is defeating you. Sin is what humans do. Forgive is what God does.

It is GUILT that keeps you defeated, and keeps you from the Throne. It keeps you from telling people about Jesus. It keeps you beaten down.

It is incumbent upon a Christian to try and live a more Christ-like life, but the dichotomy is that the Bible says it is impossible.

Even those of you now scandalized and convinced I am preaching libertine Christianity KNOW that you still have a sin problem. Whether it's a big sin, a little sin, a habitual sin or an occasional sin, its still sin. Even as we sin, (and Scripture says we ALL do) we hate it, as Paul did. But we sin. As Paul did. Read Romans 7 again.

If we COULD live a sin-free life, then why was a Savior necessary? And what was Paul rambling on about when he talked about the 'good that he would' and so forth?

If there were a formula that involved accepting Christ and THEN living a sinless life, then why did He need to go to the Cross at all?

Why not just make the revised Ten Commandments read, 'Accept Christ and don't sin" and THEN you can go to heaven? The answer is obvious. Nobody would be there.

We are living in the last days. There is no time to bandage the walking wounded, the battle has been joined. Every soldier is desperately needed on the line.

A soldier on the line does his best, and that is all anyone can ask. Especially the One Who really KNOWS that you are doing the best you can.

And He not only understands, He made you to a specific purpose, which is why all things were lawful to Paul, but not all things were expedient.

What may appear as defeat to you from your vantage point in the action may actually be a tactical victory somewhere else up the line. Only our General knows, and He says, 'Trust Me'.

Take heart! Don't let the fact you are a sinner steal your victory. The only prerequisite for being a Christian is that you must be a sinner first. God has a plan for your life, and He has somebody for you to talk to.

That appointment is so important to God that He has arranged your whole life until now -- just so you would be available to keep it when that appointment comes due.

Will you be there to keep it? Or will you be licking your wounds in defeat off in a corner somewhere? We're running out of time, and the enemy's sole focus for your life is to keep you defeated and ineffective as the hours tick down to the Final Confrontation.

"And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." 2 Corinthians (12:9)

The rest of you can come back from the kitchen now.

[Neohistory]

I really give some credit to this author. Think about it...Jesus HAD TO DIE for us not because we earned it, but because he LOVES US. God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son for our sins. There is NO DIFFERENCE between people trying to be sinless without Jesus, compared to people with Jesus trying to appear sinless. We are still walking in the flesh and we are not made completely sinless until that day we are taken home. No, we must guard ourselves against sinful things and not allow it to spread anymore than it already is. Think about it...It's not satan making us feel week, it's ourselves, thinking we should be perfect now. IT'S NOT TIME YET TO BE PERFECT, but we must keep walking in spirit, and realize that God loves us so much, sooo so much, that the price was paid in His blood. I think this is really an important article, but all must keep the laws mentioned in the Bible that we see these New Agers and other "churches" pushing the will of satan, why? Because we have to HELP IN THE FRONT LINES, help make ourselves available to the will of God to find people and bring them to Christ. God always works through people, He always has.

In short, I'm not saying I'm an expert by any means, but really read this article, and take that heavy weight off your shoulders so you can put on the Armor of God, and be the light in someone's darkness in these trying times. We are all the peace envoy of Jesus, since he had to prepare a place for us, we must prepare this place for HIM.

[MikeD]

Awesome article. Reminds me of what a Pastor friend told me once; Satan know he can't take our Salvation. But, he can, if we allow, take our chance to be an effective witness for Jesus Christ in these final days.

This article is worth reading 3 or 4 times over. If for no other reason than to drive home the fact, Jesus Christ really does love me, NO MATTER WHAT! He PAID the price, it's done and that's it! What a wonderful God we serve.

[TheAprazer]

This is a good commentary but to understand the "thorn in the flesh" issue I do suggest you read,

My Grace is Sufficient For You | GraceThruFaith

second, it looks like you point out a lot of external stuff, which is not uncommon with most believers. I had a thought this morning that went like this "Have you ever heard somebody say "don't judge me" after they've been commended for doing doing something "good"? Don't people generally get offended by others "judging" them?" The sin of partiality I think is one of the most common sins amongst believers but you rarely if ever hear some one talk about it.

And I think puttin "worldly" labels on the Christian is walking a fine line. Christians are not defeated nor wounded. We are victorious and healed! Lacking in faith, walking by what the "see", sheep without a shepherd, gone astray, etc., yes.

To give you a quick story, just the other day I was with some people in a band rehearsal and one of these people made the announcement that her granddaugther, who was present, just accepted Jesus! Whoo Hoo! Praise the Lord! Let the angels rejoice! Anyway's, it wasn't long after that announcement that the guitar player was trying to learn some chords to a song and made the comment "I can't..." but the bass player and I corrected him in saying that he shouldn't be saying that and he acknowledged it too. Well, we went on with practice and on the way home I thought, "wow, is this what has happened to the Church? kids seein the "mature in Christ" say I can't?" They quote "I can do all things..." and then turn right around and say "I can't".

So to tie this in with your commentary, I believe that, if those who struggle would see those who are "mature" have the heart of the tax collector and not the heart of the Pharisee, you might see some amazing "walking in the Spirit!"

I do applaud your compassion for the sinner though!

[Kris762]

So someone who used to live a gay/bi/les/transexual lifestyle finds salvation then weakens and returns back to that lifestyle still keeps their salvation?

A murderer finds salvation, has a weak moment or two every year and continues to murder?

A paedophile finds salvation then backslides and molests another child, he keeps his salvation?

And so on and so forth....

A sin is a sin, but surely some sins if continued must surely raise concern about man being saved yet still sinning and keeping his salvation?

Am I missing something here? Are those examples above too extreme, radical? I dont know....I feel a Christian, a true Christian surely could not conitinue to commit such sins but then again I'm not entirely sure, people weaken, have their bad day weeks or months....would really appreciate others opinions or knowledge on this...difficult to wrap my mind around it.

[Any Minute]

So someone who used to live a gay/bi/les/transexual lifestyle finds salvation then weakens and returns back to that lifestyle still keeps their salvation?

A murderer finds salvation, has a weak moment or two every year and continues to murder?

A paedophile finds salvation then backslides and molests another child, he keeps his salvation?

And so on and so forth....

A sin is a sin, but surely some sins if continued must surely raise concern about man being saved yet still sinning and keeping his salvation?

Am I missing something here? Are those examples above too extreme, radical? I dont know....I feel a Christian, a true Christian surely could not conitinue to commit such sins but then again I'm not entirely sure, people weaken, have their bad day weeks or months....would really appreciate others opinions or knowledge on this...difficult to wrap my mind around it.

I understand what your saying. Sometimes we commit some of the sins you mentioned even after being saved. This is just my opinion of course and I believe it to be biblical, but I do believe in eternal security,OSAS, and that you can't sin your way out of salvation. For me the question would be, Was the person ever saved to begin with?
We all still sin in the flesh and every sin is equally repugnant in the sight of the Lord.

If someone continues in blatant sin and tries to justify it as being o.k. with God, has no remorse or is unrepentant probably never was saved.
If you do continue on willfully sinning, you may very well lose the joy of your salvation. There are consequences for sin both here and eternal (Bema seat). The process of God sanctifying us is life long and He deals with us individually as we seek Him, submit to His will and let Him guide our lives.

It's difficult to look at others and know through all the hypotheticals if someone is saved or not, but my belief is if they understand the requirement and were saved, that they are indeed still saved.

[anath]

When we accept Christ, we are a new creation in Him, we receive the Holy Spirit and it is He who begins or should I say Begins His great work in us.
I agree with the author...it is our guilt that keeps us defeated. Do your best and let God do the rest. Afterall, it's all about Him....We love Him and want to please Him

[mkh4JC]

I can relate to being a 'defeated Christian' but it's not because I'm struggling to live a holy life. Basically I've been dealing with fear in one form or another ever since I got saved. First it was because of a sin that I fell into when I first accepted Christ (the devil pretty much set me up and I submitted to a temptation) and while having asked God for forgiveness I still struggle at times with the fear that accompanied that sin, not to mention God's disciplining strokes that he has placed in my life as a result of that sin.

And then around 2007 I visited an Islamic Forum very curious to see what had Muslims so bound in Islam. And so now from time to time (I work in retail) the devil speaks through people to try to sway me to Islam, and accuse me of my past sins. Not to mention that I'm wrestling with a mental illness that God has seen fit to place in my life.

I'm not necessarily complaining, just trying to convey that there is more than one way to live a defeated life as a Christian.

[FaithInChrist]

I can only speak for my personal experience. I just know when the Holy Spirit came into me I could not do the things I did before. I was convicted and ashamed and the urges I had before, just stopped. Why doesn't this happen to everybody?

You don't even know how hard I pray for this to happen to my husband, and my children, but it hasn't. Whatever the reason the Spirit is so strong, He has control of my life right now.

I have recently realized that we need to walk in the darkness, but not living in darkness, so that our light can shine for others.

[Meg]

I have overcome so many things. I have grown so much in the Lord. I have been directly delivered from more than one serious problem. But one thing I have never been able to pray out of my life no matter how hard I try is smoking.

This drives me CRAZY!!!

And I wonder, sometimes, if a group of Christians here in person cared enough to just pray over me, pray with me, would that be what it takes to break this thing. The problem is I can't find a group of people to bother to care. So I gave up. I smoke. And I hate being bound by that. But no amount of prayerful effort has been enough. In that one area, I feel so defeated. And, to be honest, intimidated.

[Kenny64]

Jesus did die for our past, present and future sins. By Grace are you saved through faith, It (Grace) is the
gift of God.
Ephesians 2:8,9,10

[Elijah's Mantle]

from this day hence Meg , you got mine

The Bible itself does not teach sinless perfection .
what it does teach is total dependency on what Jesus took care of for the whole world , when he went to the cross.

Its not a wooden beam either ,we are to look too .
Its what was done on the cross , what was defeated there and by whom we are to look to .

99 percent of churches teach the necessity for salvation , but NOT SANCTIFICATION

thus we have the defeated christian

Are there clear Biblical answers to solve the problem

ABSOLUTELY THERE IS

will try to get the time to get it put somewhere aboard soon as can

what does it benefit anyone to name the problems yet never give the solution to the problem ?

yet that is precisely where most all modern laity is

we have come that far removed folks

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21For since in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are:

29That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30And of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

[LivnForChrist]

I have overcome so many things. I have grown so much in the Lord. I have been directly delivered from more than one serious problem. But one thing I have never been able to pray out of my life no matter how hard I try is smoking.

This drives me CRAZY!!!

And I wonder, sometimes, if a group of Christians here in person cared enough to just pray over me, pray with me, would that be what it takes to break this thing. The problem is I can't find a group of people to bother to care. So I gave up. I smoke. And I hate being bound by that. But no amount of prayerful effort has been enough. In that one area, I feel so defeated. And, to be honest, intimidated.

Trust me Meg, I know the struggle. I smoked for years after getting saved and couldn't put it down to save my life!
I'd pray and pray and ask for deliverance. I was around others who got saved and just never smoked another day
in their life or had given up drugs or the bottle. I wondered too why God delivered some people instantly while
others struggle on. As a matter of fact, I asked God this very question just yesterday because of the situation with my
husband who is saved but struggles with sins of the flesh. I still don't know why. I just want to say, I know your struggle.
I didn't stop until I had a heart attack. I gave it up instantly then. Don't give up quitting and praying.

[OliveOilMom]

All those people who talk about "Well, you are saved so you shouldn't do this or that" are the ones who cause others to make the remark that "Christian Soldiers are the only ones who shoot their own wounded".

It's not between the person trying to give up something and the rest of the congregation, it's between them and Jesus.

To those who put others down because of that, I say "Leave it up to Jesus. He's the expert and He has a lot more experience, patience and knowledge than you. It's not my business or your business. Trust in Jesus to help them and you be nice to them and be there for them when you can. He can work through you if you let him, but if you are a self righteous donkey, then He probably won't waste His time trying to work through you, because you already think you know as much as He does! What part of 'trust Jesus' don't you understand? He knows what he's doing with the rest of us. Worry about yourself first."

[OliveOilMom]

Trust me Meg, I know the struggle. I smoked for years after getting saved and couldn't put it down to save my life!
I'd pray and pray and ask for deliverance. I was around others who got saved and just never smoked another day
in their life or had given up drugs or the bottle. I wondered too why God delivered some people instantly while
others struggle on. As a matter of fact, I asked God this very question just yesterday because of the situation with my
husband who is saved but struggles with sins of the flesh. I still don't know why. I just want to say, I know you're struggle.
I didn't stop until I had a heart attack. I gave it up instantly then. Don't give up quitting and praying.

Welbutrin really helps with quitting smoking. You start taking it and within about two weeks, cigs taste bad to you. You also don't really fiend for them. You will miss the habit itself but not the actual cigarette. Don't try and force yourself to keep smoking when it's lost it's pleasure for you, because Welbutrin gives you about a two week window where it's nasty. Just don't smoke. You won't get the nicotine fits or anything. It's the best way that I've ever quit smoking, and I've quit a lot of times. :-)

[Chris]

So someone who used to live a gay/bi/les/transexual lifestyle finds salvation then weakens and returns back to that lifestyle still keeps their salvation?

A murderer finds salvation, has a weak moment or two every year and continues to murder?

A paedophile finds salvation then backslides and molests another child, he keeps his salvation?

And so on and so forth....

A sin is a sin, but surely some sins if continued must surely raise concern about man being saved yet still sinning and keeping his salvation?

Am I missing something here? Are those examples above too extreme, radical? I dont know....I feel a Christian, a true Christian surely could not conitinue to commit such sins but then again I'm not entirely sure, people weaken, have their bad day weeks or months....would really appreciate others opinions or knowledge on this...difficult to wrap my mind around it.

We are saved by what we BELIEVE, not how we BEHAVE. The apostles asked what was the works of God, Jesus said the works of God was to believe in the One God sent. Mankind has a problem with "grace thru faith" in that we think that we should be able to "work" or have a part in salvation. God says NO!! The Bible says if you commit one sin you've committed them all. You lie, get angry, steal, lust at someone then you have murdered, committed adultery, etc. etc. etc.

Your examples are extreme, but they do not change the fact that we are saved by "grace thru faith", not works lest any man boast.

[TheAprazer]

same boat here too Meg, a smoker, wrestling with the whole issue, but no matter how "beatin up", not defeated, I get, one thing I've learned is that I can ALWAYS go to God's Word and find comfort more than any human can ever give.

As for this whole guilt thing, yes it is a "fleshly" reality "feeling", but for the saved it is nonsense, a person can't believe in Jesus and be guilty, it just ain't happenin. And that borders on callin Jesus a liar, if He says a person is not gulity and the person "feels" as though they are guilty, then they don't understand the Cross and what He did for the world.

And I too believe, based on God's Word in the OSAS, but just as ANY MINUTE said, one has to wonder if that person who keeps on sinning is really saved, which is why I mentioned the heartitudes of the tax collector and the Pharisee. Plus I tend to see those that think they've got one sinned licked, sin more in others but they don't think it's sinning, ie; the sin of partiality as previously mentioned. Even now, speaking my own mind is a sin believe it or not, even though I speak my mind, my hope is that God see's that I'm trying to speak Truth. One of my most earnest prayers is to "handle thy Word" with pure Love, Truth, and understanding! Do I always do that....NOT!!! But it's God who see's my heartitude and He WILL let me know if I'm screwing it up!

That's how perfect our God is and how perfect Jesus was/is, an we all fall very very short of perfection. It may be just an observation, but I tend to think that those who really get what Jesus did on the Cross tend to live with the most remorse of their sins but at the same time have the greatest freedom, joy, and gratitude (ie; the parable of the one who was forgiven more debt). I heard someone say once, faith is like a muscle, the more you exercise it and work it, the more you have of it. And I can honestly attest to that. Obviously not in smoking but in other, more crucial areas of my life.

So as LivnForChrist said....don't give up! keep praying!

Peace and blessings y'all!

[Meg]

Welbutrin really helps with quitting smoking. You start taking it and within about two weeks, cigs taste bad to you. You also don't really fiend for them. You will miss the habit itself but not the actual cigarette. Don't try and force yourself to keep smoking when it's lost it's pleasure for you, because Welbutrin gives you about a two week window where it's nasty. Just don't smoke. You won't get the nicotine fits or anything. It's the best way that I've ever quit smoking, and I've quit a lot of times. :-)

I tried that before I was a Christian, and almost made it too. But the Welbutrin caused severe stomach pain, and I had to quit the Welbutrin before I was able to quit the cigarettes... I considered trying the Welbutrin one more time, but I'm on Naproxen to control severe arthritis in my hip, and frankly the Naproxen is more important.

To Elijah's Mantle, dinner almost ready. I deeply respect your reply in this thread, will post on that after dinner. I'm SO glad you found this forum dear brother!!!!!

[OliveOilMom]

I am trying to get caught back up with the forum from being offline a few days, but about the post about the "transexual lifestyle", well that involves surgery and you really can't physically go back once that's done. You look and act like your "new" gender and pretty much have to keep that up. There really is no going back once you had surgery. Sure, they can be celibate, but would you really want someone to call themselves the sex that they have the opposite equipment of? Would you want them to be in the same bathroom as you?

Take Chastity Bono for example. She was such a cute little girl, and she was so pretty when she was younger, but now she looks a lot like a guy. I believe she has had ALL the surgery she needs for that, and if she feels that strongly about it, I'd really rather she not share a bathroom with me, even though I will always see her as "Chastity that's just gained a lot of weight and dresses badly" and not as "Chaz" now, but if I had never seen her before, I'd think she was a guy. I seriously doubt she can ever go back to looking like a girl again, even if she were to get saved and God were to let her not be gay anymore and she wanted to be a girl again. I really don't think they can put her back to female now. I'm sure it's much worse for guys who get the surgery to be girls.

Now, if you mean the drag queen/drag king lifestyle, that's a different thing. That one would be easy to change. But once somebody has had surgery, I'd just opt for celibacy and let them continue to look like whichever gender they look like and claim that. It's really much kinder than to make someone explain every time you meet them that they are not a man or woman.

[OliveOilMom]

I don't see smoking cigarettes as a sin, I just see it as a bad habit that can cause cancer. The same as laying in the sun can cause cancer. It's a silly, expensive and stupid habit, and one that I do want to get rid of, but right now is now is not the time I can' deal with trying to, what with all my mothers problems and all.

I don't think drinking is a sin either, unless you just drink to get drunk all the time, or spend money you shouldn't on it.

Then again, I may not have the same ideas as you, and if God has convicted you that something is a sin, then He wants you to stop it.