Sheba and Dedan, and Tarshish (no, not the three musketeers)

[Everlasting Life]

Hi all! With permission from mikhen7 I started another thread about this so as to continue any conversation about Sheba, Dedan and Tarshish here. :-)



Below is an excerpt from my book on Sheba and Dedan, followed by Tarshish. NOTE: this is taken from Appendix A. (Anatolia is Turkey)

The Sons of Raamah

Of special importance to us are the two sons of Raamah of Ham’s lineage, Sheba and Dedan. They were inhabitants of S.W. Arabia. We can find them in prophecy as end time nations that are perplexed over the subsequent invasion of Israel by a Great Northern Confederacy of nations during the future Gog/Magog war. (see. Ez. 38, 39)
Sheba ‑ Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9. Sheba is a prominent name in Biblical prophecy. However, there are other Sheba's found in the Old Testament that can be easily confused with one another. Since it is of utmost importance to make the correct observations, they will be dealt with this carefully.
a) Sheba the son of Raamah ‑ Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9. He is given special significance with Dedan, both sons of Raamah. They lived in close proximity in S.W. Arabia.
b) Sheba, son of Joktan - Gen. 10:28; Is. 60:6; Ps. 72:15; Jer. 6:20; Ez. 27:22. He is of Semitic stock, a grandson of Keturah, and inhabited along with his brothers the area of southern Arabia now known as Yemen. They started the early kingdom known as the kingdom of Sheba. (This was uncharted land until the 19th century A.D.)

A Frenchman, J. Hal'evy and an Austrian, Dr. Edward Glaser, were the first white men to actually reach this goal about a century ago. Since no foreigner, far less a European, was allowed to cross the frontier of Yemen, and no permit could be obtained, Hal'evy and Glaser embarked on an enterprise which might have cost them their lives. They chartered a sailing boat and landed secretly in the Gulf of Aden disguised as Orientals. After an arduous journey of over 200 miles through parched and desolate mountain country, they eventually reached Marib. Greatly impressed by what they saw they threw caution to the winds and clamored around the ruins.46

They eventually escaped proving by tracings and rubbings of inscriptions that Marib, the capitol city, actually did exist. From this kingdom came the name, "The Spice kingdoms” which were the countries of: Minaea, Kataban, Hadhramaut, and Sheba.
Sheba until this time had been taken to be of fairy tale legend and popular Arabic folklore. Even the Biblical accounts of "The Queen of Sheba" were laughed to scorn. However, now that history has been unearthed it is easy to see that the leading spice exporter today was one and the same as the ancient yesterday.
The names of Seba, Sheba, and the Sabeans all seem to have one thing in common, that being that their settlements were in the areas of Yemen and east of Yemen. As time passed, these early patriarchs become intertwined together to make up the vast kingdom of Sheba. As travelers past from south Arabia to the areas in the north controlled by the kingdom of Solomon to peddle their spices and treasures it is of no wonder that the news of a great king named Solomon eventually reached the ears of the Queen of Sheba. 1 Kings 10:1ff comes to life not as some fairy tale but true to its word, a real, sometimes romantic, vignette of a time when Solomon ruled the land with wisdom and riches.
It is obvious from the Biblical account, archaeological expeditions of this century in southern Arabia, the presence of Arabic lettering on pottery dating in the Solomonic reign, and the trade routes described in 1 Kings 10 that the great commerce was initiated between these two great kingdoms.
c) Sheba the elder son of Jokshan ‑ Gen. 25:3; 1 Chron. 1:32. He is also described as being identified with southern Yemen and to the East. He lived around 2000 B.C.
d) Sheba the son of Bichri ‑ II Sam. 20:1‑22. He was also known as, “a man of Belial.” He was known as an insurrectionist in the Davidic kingdom around 1000 B.C.
e) Sheba a Gadite ruler ‑ 1 Chron. 5:13. He is said to have lived in Bashan in the reign of Jeroboam II, 784 B.C.
f) Sheba, city of Josh. 19:2 said to have existed in between Beersheba and Moladah.
Thus, it is easy to see that Sheba can be misidentified with ease, because of the various mentions of the name.


The Dedanic Line

a) Dedan the son of Raamah ‑ Gen. 10:7; 1 Chron. 1:9. He was the inhabitant with Sheba in southwest Arabia.
b) Dedan the son of Jokshan ‑ Gen. 25:3; 1 Chron. 1:32; Ez. 27:15, 20, 38:13; Is. 21:13; Also, a dweller in Arabia. He was a grandson of Keturah.
In searching for the Dedanites, we find them mentioned along side of the Sabeans (Sheba). Many say that the Dedanites settled along the western shores of the Persian Gulf. They then travelled on trade routes along the northern borders of Arabia and up into Palestine. At some point, they have been infused by marriage to unite the Cushite Dedanim and with the Keturahite Dedamen thus uniting the two into one kingdom. Modern maps place the Dedanites in the northwestern to central parts of Arabia. It really cannot be inferred, without doubt, that the Dedanites were seafaring merchants. Ez. 27:20 says, "Dedan was your merchant in saddlecloth for riding.” This to me implies that he may have specialized in land travel. That does not mean, however, that he could not have owned a ship or two. In Ez. 38:13, he is mentioned as questioning the barbaric actions of the Northern confederacy who invade Palestine. His companions, Sheba and the merchants of Tarshish cannot conclusively convey that he was a seafarer as Tarshish was, but only that they are in a relational or political agreement with each other.
Therefore, overall, the sons of Ham and their descendants seem to have multiplied themselves largely across northern Africa, south Asia, and southern Eurasia. As you study the Scriptures, you will be able to note the significance of the role these national homelands play in the structuring of the ages by the almighty God. Their interplay between the nation of Israel, end time Europe and the western lands of the Americas will become apparent the closer we get to the return of Christ.

And Tarshish a Son of Joktan:
2) Tarshish ‑ (see also 1 Chron. 1:7, 1 Kings 10:22, 22:48; 2 Chron. 9:21, 20:36-37; Ps. 48:7, 72:10; Is. 2:16, 23:1, 6, 10, 14, 60:9, 66:19; Jer. 10:9; Ez. 27:12, 25, 38:13; and Jonah 1:3, 4:2). Tarshish is by far one of the most important nations of end time prophecy. Most scholars generally agree that it was the progenitor of the nation of Spain. He is identified with Tartessus in Spain. The phrase "Ships of Tarshish" tells us he was a great maritime nation. Silver found its origin in Tarshish. Mazor comments:

“The origin of silver is placed by the Bible in Tarshish and Ophir. The former should be identified with southern Anatolia or with Spain from where Phoenician traders could have brought it east.”19

The Moody atlas goes to great length to explain the existence of Tarshish as being related to Phoenician trading. They map it to the area of southern Spain or the Western Mediteranean.20

God Bless

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[mattfivefour]

Mikhen7's entire book is worth reading!

[Everlasting Life]

Where would I be able to purchase? Can the info be pm'd to me? Many thanks.

[mattfivefour]

No need to PM. It is available at Amazon and Barnes & Noble.

[Everlasting Life]

Oh, oops! I must have missed the book title. I'll go look for that. :-)

[IamPJ]

I got mine at Amazon. I just finished reading it. It was an awesome book and very interesting to follow the redemptive thread through the whole Bible! I could hardly put it down once I got started with it.

[mikhen7]

You all are tooooooooooo kind!!!!!! I am glad you liked it. The Appendix is a good reference guide. EL posted a part of it. Very, very, interesting study. For those who wanted to try and find it, click here I am not a Prophet or the Son of a prophet ..but take heed post 27.

God bless. l am going to look some more into the Sheba, Dedan, and Tarshish subject
God bless!!

[Everlasting Life]

mikhen7, I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the name of your book. Maybe it's the sick bug going around here at the house and I'm missing the very obvious...but could you tell us the title of your book at Amazon?

[mikhen7]

So do you all believe Ezekiel 38:13, where these 3 nations are mentioned is curiosity or more diplomacy or neither? It sure does look like the nations are forming even clearer as the days go by. Even Turkey is in the mix!

Maranantha

[mikhen7]

mikhen7, I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the name of your book. Maybe it's the sick bug going around here at the house and I'm missing the very obvious...but could you tell us the title of your book at Amazon?

Amazon.com: Those Who Are Wise Will Shine!: Understanding the Work of God in Your Redemption (9781449709570): Michael L. Henderson: Books



God Bless!!!

[Everlasting Life]

Whew! Good thing I asked....I wasn't finding that anywhere I was looking! Ok, I'm going to stop hijacking my own thread and go check out the book.

[daygo]

I read somewhere tarshish was the uk, not spain part of the reasoning was that tin mined in cornwall uk. was used in solomans temple. Any idea where this came from.

[mikhen7]

I read somewhere tarshish was the uk, not spain part of the reasoning was that tin mined in cornwall uk. was used in solomans temple. Any idea where this came from.

It could have come from the WWCOG (worldwide Church of God, Herbert Armstrong founder). They believe Britain, or at least that Britain was founded by the 10 lost tribes of Israel. The teaching is referred to as "British Israelism". It is heretical in its foundation and teaching. I was reading an article the other day on Germany's rise in the EU and they even slipped it in that article. They even teach that Assyria is Germany. I do not want any one to be confused so I will not post the link, but here is an excerpt:

"Bible prophecy shows that Germany will play a dominant role on the world stage just before Jesus Christ returns to this earth. The Bible calls the nation by its ancient name—Assyria (for more information about Germany's place in Bible prophecy, please write for our free reprint, A Fourth Reich?). Scripture shows that ten nations in Europe will surrender their sovereignty to a revived version of the Roman Empire (Revelation 17:12–18). This "beast" power will be aided by a prominent religious figure and organization linked with Rome (Daniel 7:24–25; Revelation 13:11–18). The leaders of this " revived" beast power (which is also called "the king of the North) will persecute true Christians. This power will punish Israelite nations that have abandoned God's ways (America, Britain and other nations of northwest European descent), and will launch military operations in the Middle East and against powers to the north and east on the Eurasian continent (see Daniel 11:40–45; Hosea 11:1–11). The Bible clearly identifies Assyria—modern Germany—as the leading nation of this end-time beast power, and indeed modern Germany is taking a place on the world stage that matches what the Bible has long prophesied."

Yep I am correct. Did a google search for Cornwall UK and Tarshish and came up with an article by J.A.B. Haggart. Searched for him and the first result is the link to britishisrael.co.uk

So disregard. They will take you on a goose-chase to try and find the 10 lost tribes.

God Bless!

[daygo]

Thanks miken7.

[Sean Osborne]

So do you all believe Ezekiel 38:13, where these 3 nations are mentioned is curiosity or more diplomacy or neither?

In my study of Ezekiel 38/39 I have come to the assessment (assessments are temporary and can be updated as new insights or information come to light) that the entire event is not a war per se, but rather a very short term attempted invasion. The attempt is made and, as the enemy troops arrive in what will by then be an expanded Israel, they are literally dumbfounded by the Lord and annihilate each other in indescribable slaughter as the Lord sends fire upon their homelands. Israel spends the following seven moths afterwards burying bones and shards of bones and the concurrent seven years burning the enemies war materiel as fuel.

Sheba and Dedan is literally represented by the regions the Romans had named Arabix Felix (Fortunate Arabia - i.e. Yemen) and Arabia Deserta (the rest of the Arabian Peninsula). Together Sheba and Dedan represent the whole of the Arabian Peninsula, the soon-to-be former home and origin of Islam.

The third party mentioned needs to be addressed on the whole: "the merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof." This single identity is actually an expansive group of nations, languages and peoples which equates to Western Europe, the entire Western Hemisphere, Australia and New Zealand. Tarshish is literally the vast bulk of the mercantile powers of this world. Given Israel's by-then new found status as an economic and financial powerhouse this association is easily conceptualized as a reality for the near-future.

Together we have Israel, "the West" and the Arab nations linked in direct association with one another - exactly as this association began in the post World War II era and as it is being strengthened today through Western/NATO assistance to the so-called "Arab Spring Movement" (resurgent Sunni Islam with the lone exception of Turkey) and the secular yet ecumenical effort of the Globalists to link Arab Muslims with the "Christian West" under the umbrella of each constituting part of an "Abrahamic Religion" on the whole. This "Abrahamic Religion" aspect will be a key cog in the coming "covenant among many" world security arrangement (false peace treaty).

[anath]

Yes thanks Mike, I ordered a copy.

[Everlasting Life]

This subject is so interesting....love the info!

[mikhen7]

The third party mentioned needs to be addressed on the whole: "the merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof." This single identity is actually an expansive group of nations, languages and peoples which equates to Western Europe, the entire Western Hemisphere, Australia and New Zealand. Tarshish is literally the vast bulk of the mercantile powers of this world. Given Israel's by-then new found status as an economic and financial powerhouse this association is easily conceptualized as a reality for the near-future.

Yes, indeed. The Young Lions referring to those nations that have sprung from the roots of the Tarshish area from the Western Mediterranean to through Western Europe. We all know that includes America/Canada. Another way of looking at "Young Lions" is in reference to the leaders of the Tarshish offspring. cp. Ezekiel 32:2

Together we have Israel, "the West" and the Arab nations linked in direct association with one another - exactly as this association began in the post World War II era and as it is being strengthened today through Western/NATO assistance to the so-called "Arab Spring Movement" (resurgent Sunni Islam with the lone exception of Turkey) and the secular yet ecumenical effort of the Globalists to link Arab Muslims with the "Christian West" under the umbrella of each constituting part of an "Abrahamic Religion" on the whole. This "Abrahamic Religion" aspect will be a key cog in the coming "covenant among many" world security arrangement (false peace treaty).

It is interesting that Some Radical Arab nations such as those listed below who are aligned with Gog/Magog are not in the alliance. Can you comment more on these Sean?
⁵ Persia (Iran), Cush (Ethiopia or North Africa), and Put (Libya) are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; ⁶ Gomer (Germany, some say Turkey or Cappadocia) and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah (Turkey/Armenia) from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes— many peoples are with you. Ezekiel 38:5-6 Parenthesis added by me.

I also think it is very interesting that the evil demon over Persia also fought against Gabriel in Daniel is still fighting against God's people.

Daniel desired to understand this amazing sight (the vision Dan.10), so the angel Gabriel was dispatched to give Daniel the understanding he sought. After he touched Daniel and relieved his fear, the following is recorded:

Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. (Dan. 10:11-13)

And in verse 20-21, the scripture confirms this with the following:

Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come. But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince...). (Dan. 10:20-21)

Praise God!!

[anath]

Just Amazing! Although we do not know when. We KNOW our God is leading this age to a close and these amazing events are occurring and will occur precisely by the Word of God. I am so in Awe of it All! \o/

Thank you all who work and study so arduously so that we can understand these incredible times as we watch events unfold.

[Sean Osborne]

It is interesting that Some Radical Arab nations such as those listed below who are aligned with Gog/Magog are not in the alliance.

Eschatologically speaking, Israel's enemies in these coming wars can basically be ordered and divided by individual prophecy. Bill Salus has done this to great effect in his 2008 book Isralestine as well as in his brand new book Revelation Road: Hope Beyond the Horizon.

The first group is Aram Damascus/Syria which is covered by Isaiah 17.

The second group are known as the "inner ring" or those nations specifically named in Psalm 83. They are arranged in a reverse crescent from Lebanon to Jordan, to Saudi Arabia to the Sinai to Egypt. Careful note must be made here that Aram Damascus is not mentioned among them leading to the very reasonable idea that Isaiah 17 finds literal fulfillment immediately prior to Psalm 83 and the directly related prophecies.

The third group are the "outer ring" found named in Ezekiel 38/39. The primary adversaries are from the utmost north. In league with them a second tier are identified in Ezekiel 38:5 consisting of (in the Hebrew language) Parac (Iran), Kuwsh (Sudan) and Puwt (Libyan/North African tribes).