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Thread: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

  1. #1
    mlb
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    Default Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    It has been argues that when the Bible was translated to English the translators changed Yahushua’s name to Jesus, and God’s name to Jehovah and not Yahovah, ( the YAH... is very important, it is there for a very good reason) and then there is all the other names such as the prophets and the Apostles, extra......All of us have a name and our name is our name which crosses over cultural barriers, changing names to cross cultures actually takes away the reason for our name and we loose our identity and in the case of the Bible brings Our Mighty God and Saviour in line with the many false gods that Satan has created. The simple message of the Bible is that Yahovah not Allah created the universe, and He sent Yahushua to redeem us and not Mahomet a prophet. Changing the Bible and the names is just another way to bring in a one world religion...Shame on Wycliffe.

    Bombshell: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge”


    Verified sources within Wycliffe have contacted The Daily Jot confirming that Wycliffe has replaced God the Father with allah in many Arabic translations of the Bible and Bible resources. The sources, who took great care to remain unidentified due to fears of harsh retribution, collectively are “torn as to what they should do. Do they stay and try to stand for right or resign in protest?” One source summed up the situation, writing, “many of the intellectuals in Wycliffe are convinced that this is just cultural bridge building and Western Christians are not sophisticated enough to understand what they do. Therefore, they are keeping it as secret as possible.”


    Missionaries from around the world have confirmed that Wycliffe has indeed replaced God the Father with allah in many translations. Most are thankful for the Jot exposing the error. Some have been been critical, nonetheless, they confirmed that allah is used instead of God the Father. One wrote: “I am sorry to say that you haven’t a clue of what you speak. Had you asked anyone with even the faintest familiarity with the millions of Arab Christians...you would have discovered that Allah is the word used in every Arabic Bible translation ever produced; and that millions of Arab Christians pour out their hearts in worship and intercession to Allah, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” It’s worse than we thought!


    Pastors in Turkey are urging that a new translation replacing God the Father and Son of God with Muslim-friendly words is “a very, very, very serious error and mistranslation.” A missionary there said: “This is a big controversy here in Turkey. All the Turkish pastors oppose this new translation. They have asked Frontiers to not distribute this book in Turkey, but Frontiers refused. They refused to stop working on it. This is very arrogant. This is being done to "reach" Muslims. We should preach the Gospel to Muslims in power with signs following' using the example of the Apostle Paul. This method works and is scriptural.” One missionary said Wycliffe reps fought to leave out some 100 verses of another translation.


    2 Peter 2:1 says, “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Multiple independent sources confirm that Wycliffe leadership believes it knows best about how to translate the Bible and how to treat the Muslim issue regarding the Holy Scriptures. Even some missionaries are convinced that using allah for YHVH is the right thing to do. There has been a tremendous compromise of the Word of God.


    One proponent of changing names of God to Muslim friendly terms told World Magazine in a May 2011 article, “On the day of judgment, will those who might have heard and believed the Gospel stand up to accuse such Christians of hindering their salvation? Only God knows." I would be among the last to knowingly hinder someone’s true salvation, but I hope to be counted as among the first to stand for the Word of God, which includes that allah is not YHWH.


    End Note: This has been a very eye-opening week covering this story. It has been a “shoot the messenger” week. The personal attacks are very interesting. They range from not having standing to write about the issue because I do not bring the gospel to millions of people as does Wycliffe; another is that this is a very complicated issue and without years of experience, I cannot possibly know what I am talking about; another is that if I haven’t lived for 20 years in a Muslim country, I just don’t know; another is that I do not know the origin of the word “allah”; another is that as a Christian I should not criticize another Christian; another is that I am attacking and slandering Wycliffe (I guess these intellectuals do not know the difference between slander, the spoken untruthful and malicious action, and libel); another is that allah has been used as YHWH for so long that it is impossible to change it. For people that say you shouldn’t criticize other Christians, they have done their fair share of it, some viciously.


    In these days there are many errors with what is being taught in Christianity. We need to be able from time to time to have an open discussion about them, examine them and correct them. In reality, there is only one true God if we believe the Bible to be the inerrant and infallible Word of God. He has a name. It is not allah. Allah is a different god, they are not the same. That in of itself is quite simple. The other issues of changing or omitting the familial names are also quite simple. You don’t do it. Or if you have to for some reason, you footnote it with an explanation. Then don’t do it again.


    Just because something has been done for years upon years as a tradition of man, it doesn’t mean that it should not be changed if it is wrong. And just because someone has been doing it wrong, it doesn’t mean they are evil or bad (many dedicated people have given their lives to this good work), they have been led in error. The problem, however, with interchanging allah with YHWH is that the two are not the same. To do so is wrong. As the one missionary critical of my writing proudly said: “...millions of Arab Christians pour out their hearts in worship and intercession to Allah, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” To him, there is nothing wrong with this and it is quite proper. To me, it is inaccurate to the point it is heresy. There needs to be a correction here. My prayer is that Wycliffe will listen and do the right thing. I am hopeful that there is not another agenda in play. Time will tell.


    Have A Blessed And Powerful Day,


    Bill Wilson
    Last edited by mattfivefour; February-5th-2012 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Removed link to unapproved blog.

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Here's a good tract that even shows a picture of the stone idol that we know as allah. He is not the God of creation!!

    Allah Had No Son
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Wycliffe has been a noble name associated with the great commission.

    Great damage has been done. Our church supports a translator in
    Papua New Guinea


    So sad...
    Consider the words of Omar M. Ahmad, founder of CAIR: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant." ... "The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America , and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    This does sound very disturbing. I hope something will come out confirming this story false.

    This sentence bothers me.

    One source summed up the situation, writing, “many of the intellectuals in Wycliffe are convinced that this is just cultural bridge building and Western Christians are not sophisticated enough to understand what they do. Therefore, they are keeping it as secret as possible.”
    First of all...if it's not so bad (I agree with the Turkey pastors...very, very, very serious error) then why keep it all secret, hush hush? Second of all...this has quite a condescending tone.

    If this is true...it kind of smacks of blending of religions...bring some sneaky un-truth in here and there amidst the truth.


    One missionary said Wycliffe reps fought to leave out some 100 verses of another translation.
    It seems to me there is a lack of faith here in God being able to powerfully use His full Word (His revealed name {kind of important} and all) to bring people to Christ.

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    ...it kind of smacks of blending of religions...bring some sneaky un-truth in here and there amidst the truth.

    Yes it does and I believe that to be to purpose, If we are in the very last days then much of this will happen blending all religions and excludung the real one and changing the name of Our God to a couterfiet substitute, deception is the devils way

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Ahh

    Heaven will be better than here

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Here's a good tract that even shows a picture of the stone idol that we know as allah. He is not the God of creation!!

    Allah Had No Son
    I like those Chick tracts. First one I ever saw was when someone (Teacher? Teacher's friend?) passed out some in my home room when I was a freshman in high school back in '71. It made an impression on me because I never forgot the images. They still use the one I got back in those days. Of course, now it if they did this, because it wouldn't have a rainbow or a condom printed on it, passing these out would probably be a major "crime".

    Here's the one I got as a kid! It was probably 30 years ago before I saw it again (on the internet), but I never forgot some of the images.
    http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    I'm glad that Matt removed the link to the blog because upon reading the article several red flags went up in my head. To quote:

    It has been argues that when the Bible was translated to English the translators changed Yahushua’s name to Jesus, and God’s name to Jehovah and not Yahovah, ( the YAH... is very important, it is there for a very good reason) and then there is all the other names such as the prophets and the Apostles, extra......All of us have a name and our name is our name which crosses over cultural barriers, changing names to cross cultures actually takes away the reason for our name and we loose our identity and in the case of the Bible brings Our Mighty God and Saviour in line with the many false gods that Satan has created. The simple message of the Bible is that Yahovah not Allah created the universe, and He sent Yahushua to redeem us and not Mahomet a prophet. Changing the Bible and the names is just another way to bring in a one world religion...Shame on Wycliffe.

    He is right that people have a name. The name of Jesus in Hebrew is transliterated as Y'shua or Yeshua. It is the same name as the person of the Old Testament whose name is transliterated as Joshua. I have never seen Jesus' name used as "Yahushua" except by members of one cult or another. The transliteration of one of God's names is Yahweh not "Yahovah". He insists that the "Yah" is important because he is attempting to make people think that he has insights into the Bible that others don't. This is done to bring in further false teachings about God and the Bible. In truth, the Bible uses many names for God, and Yahovah isn't one of them.

    I'm not going to comment on the main idea of the OP (Wycliffe using "Allah" as the translation for the name God. I just wanted to warn against the influence of the heretics that are called "yahwists".
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    mlb
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    This is from an article by a man named Bill Wilson
    Name above all names--getting it right


    The Wycliffe controversy over the name of God and Jesus Christ has been a real eye opener. Many attempted to explain why allah would be used instead of God. Many attempted to justify using a different name of God in a different language. Through the scores of emails I received from "experts" on the subject, I realize that names have meaning. There is only one true God and one true Jesus Christ, no matter what man tries to make of them, no matter how many traditions have developed over the millennia, irrespective of what the "scholars" think and argue. Speaking of Jesus Christ, Philippians 2:9 says, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name."

    From the common sense perspective of this farm boy, if there is only one of something, it has a unique name that really needs no translation into a different language. For example, a Rembrandt is a Rembrandt in every language. The name should remain the same across all of the languages and an explanation should be given about what or who the name is. If you are a translator, you are most likely cringing at this suggestion. If you are a lover of a certain translation of the Bible, for example, King James, you think it is good enough. If you forward the Jot to others, you may think that using Hebrew names for God and Jesus Christ is confusing, but quite frankly, there is only them, and perhaps it's a long time coming, but we all ought to know their names.

    In the Hebrew, God is YHVH. His name is so sacred that the ancient Jews would not pronounce it. If they spoke the name of God, they would say simply Ha Shem, meaning "The Name." When reading the Tanakh, YHVH is referred to as Adonai, meaning "My Lord." In Exodus 15:2, Moses and the children of Israel in the earliest known song, sang: "Yah is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation." King David used Yah as the name of God in some 17 Psalms. Psalm 150:6, "Let every thing that has breath praise Yah! Praise Yah!" Isaiah 38:17 originally says, "I won't see Yah, Yah in the land of the living..." Most translations, including King James, replaced "Yah" with "LORD." Confused yet?

    The Hebrew name for Jesus Christ is Yeshua Mashiach (some use Ha in between, meaning "the"). If man had not been so invested in changing the names into other languages for the sake of understanding, the names of Yah and Yeshua Mashiach could have been used throughout the world in all translations as the standard. Everyone would then know that when we are speaking of the one true God, his name is Yah; and the only Christ is Yeshua Mashiach. But due to this "logical" and "scholarly" twist, we have many names for Yah and Yeshua Mashiach, and many interpretations of who they are from the social gospel to Black Liberation Theology to New Apostolic Reformation to Mormonism to Free Masonry to Islam to--well you get the point.

    My Add in
    And to add about Yah and why I use it for both Jesus and God is because He is God and that was the name he used meaning "God is our salvation"
    the name Jesus did not exist untill th 1600s because there was no "J" in the English langiage untill then His name was then from the latin Iesus, taken from the greek which came from a variation of Zues meaning god, as the article says above in the Hebrew the word YAH is ofteh used for God as in HallaluYAH meaning praise GOD. The catholic church went to great lengths to stop the use of His name, Tyndale ans Whycliffe himself were bot persicuted and killed for using God's name in their early translations, Tyndale was burnt at the stake using his own Bible translations to kindle the fire, The world does not want us to use the name of God because of the authority that goes with it, that is why God's enemies in the old Testement were afraid of that name, There is no special revelation in using that name, because it is His name.

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    mlb
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    This is a copy of a letter put out by the Catholic church back in 2008 a directive banning using the name of God, but notice the reason for the letter, God Himself is bringing it back, even in the catholic church He will reveal Himself to the faithful.......... Is it time to come out of Egypt..........?
    You can seach out this letter on the internet and you will find it has the Vatican seal on it.

    Letter to the Bishops Conferences on The Name of God
    On June 29, 2008, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, wrote to the presidents of all conferences of bishops, prohibiting use of the term Yahweh in the liturgy, particularly in hymns and Psalm translations.
    CONGREGATIO DE CULTU DIVINO ET DISCIPLINA SACRAMENTORUM
    Prot. no. 213/08/L Rome
    Rome, June 29, 2008
    Your Eminence / Your Excellency,
    By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences the following as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine Name signified in the sacred tetragrammaton, along with a number of directives.
    The replies received from the bishops’ conferences were studied by the two Congregations, and a report was made to the Holy Father. At his direction, this Congregation now writes to Your Eminence / Your Excellency in the following terms:
    I. Exposition
    1. The words of Sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place. They are the Word of God expressed in human words. By means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth, whole and entire; and thus the Word Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness (cf. Jn 14:26; 16:12-15.) In order that the Word of God, written in the sacred texts, may be conserved and transmitted in an integral and faithful manner, every modern translation of the books of the Bible aims at being a faithful and accurate transposition of the original texts. Such a literary effort requires that the original text be translated with maximum integrity and accuracy, without omissions or additions with regard to the contents and without introducing explanatory glosses or paraphrases which do not belong to the sacred text itself.
    As regards the sacred name of God himself, translators must use the greatest faithfulness and respect. In particular, as the Instruction Liturgiam authenticam (n. 41) states:
    In accordance with immemorial tradition, which indeed is already evident in the above- mentioned Septuagint version, the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew tetragrammaton and rendered in Latin by the word Dominus, is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning.
    [Iuxta traditionem ab immemorabili receptam, immo in (...)versione "LXX virorum" iam perspicuam, nomen Dei omnipotentis, sacro tetragrammate hebaraice expressum, latine vocabulo "Dominus" in quavis lingua populari vocabulo quodam eiusdem significationis reddatur.]
    Notwithstanding such a clear norm, in recent years the practice has crept in of pronouncing the God of Israel's proper name, known as the holy or divine tetragrammaton, written with four consonants of the Hebrew alphabet in form הךהי, YHWH. The practice of vocalizing it is met with both in the reading of biblical texts taken from the lectionary, as well as in prayers and hymns.
    It occurs in diverse written and spoken forms, for example, Yahweh, Yahwè, Jahweh, Jahwè, Jave, Yehovah, etc. It is therefore our intention, with the present letter, to set out some essential facts which lie behind the above-mentioned norm and to establish some directives to be observed in this matter.
    2. The venerable biblical tradition of Sacred Scripture, known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations, among which is the sacred name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH הךהי. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of Sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means "Lord."
    The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so-called Septuagint, dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word Kyrios, which means "Lord." Since the text of the Septuagint constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek-speaking Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never pronounced the divine tetragrammaton. Something similar happened likewise for Latin-speaking Christians, whose literature began to emerge from the second century, as first the Vetus Latina and, later, the Vulgate of St. Jerome attest. In these translations, too, the tetragrammaton was regularly replaced with the Latin word Dominus, corresponding both to the Hebrew Adonai and to the Greek Kyrios. The same holds for the recent Neo-Vulgate which the Church employs in the liturgy.
    This fact has had important implications for New Testament Christology itself. When in fact St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name" (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any name other than "Lord," for he continues by saying, "and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (Phil 2:11; cf. Is 42:8: "I am the Lord; that is my name.") The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly to the proclamation of his divinity. The title in fact becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles used for the Messiah of Israel.
    In the strictly theological sense, this title is found, for example, already in the first canonical Gospel (cf. Mt 1:20: "The angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.") One sees it as a rule in Old Testament citations in the New Testament (cf. Acts 2:20): " The sun shall be turned into darkness. . . before the day of the Lord comes (Joel 3:4); 1 Peter 1:25: "The word of the Lord abides for ever" (Is 40:8)..
    However, in the properly Christological sense, apart from the text cited of Philippians 2:9-11, one can remember Romans 10:9 ("If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved"), 1 Corinthians 2:8 ("they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"), 1 Corinthians 12:3 ("No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit") and the frequent formula concerning the Christian who lives "in the Lord" (Rom 16:2; 1 Cor 7:22, 1 Thes 3:8; etc).
    3. Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the Church has therefore its own [rationale]. Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the Church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.
    II. Directives
    In light of what has [just] been expounded, the following directives are to be observed:
    1. In liturgical celebrations, in songs and prayers the name of God in the form of the tetragrammaton YHWH is neither to be used or pronounced.
    2. For the translation of the biblical text in modern languages, intended for the liturgical usage of the Church, what is already prescribed by n. 41 of the Instruction Liturgiam authenticam is to be followed; that is, the divine tetragrammaton is to be rendered by the equivalent of Adonai/Kyrios; "Lord," Signore, Seigneur, Herr, Señor, etc.
    3. In translating, in the liturgical context, texts in which are present, one after the other, either the Hebrew term Adonai or the tetragrammaton YHWH, Adonai is to be translated "Lord" and the [word] "God" is to be used for the tetragrammaton YHWH, similar to what happens in the Greek translation of the Septuagint and in the Latin translation of the Vulgate.
    Francis Cardinal Arinze
    Prefect
    Albert Malcolm Ranjith
    Archbishop Secretary

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    mlb
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    The Evolution of the Name Jesus
    The Hebrew name Yahoshua
    Etymology is the study of word origins and how those words change in meaning and pronunciation over time. In Jewish thought, a name was never a random combination of sounds. A name was meant to convey the nature, essence, history, and reputation of the thing named. The importance of the power in a name is illustrated when Moses asked God what his "name" was. God told Moses he was the God of his ancestors and that he would save his people from bondage. God said "I am who am" (which sounds like "Yahweh"). God then said "This is my name forever, this is my name for all generations" (Exodus 3:11-15).
    The basic root name of Jesus comes from the Hebrew name HO-SH-U-A (Joshua) meaning "Salvation." But "salvation" was only half the essence of his name. The full essence of the name Jesus comes from the story of Twelve Scouts when Moses gave Hoshea his new name "Yaho-shua," meaning "Yahovah-is-Salvation"
    "The Lord said to Moses, send men to scout the land of Caanan, which I am giving to the Israelites. Send one man from each tribe, all of them princes. So Moses sent them from the desert of Paran as the Lord had ordered. All were leaders among the Israelites. By name they were ... Shammua, Shaphat, Caleb, Igal, Gaddiel, Gaddi, Hoshea, Palti, Ammiel, Sethur, Nahbi, and Geuel (this quote leaves out the father & tribe names). These are the names of the men who Moses sent out to scout the land. But Ho-shea, son of Nun, Moses called Yeho-shua" (Num 13:1-16).
    As you can see, Hebrew names always had a meaning and a history in the Old Testament. The early Christians pointed to Mose's authority to "make up names" when titles and names were given to Jesus or when Jesus "made up names" for his twelve disciples (Mk 3:13-19). The genius of the Greek names of Christianity was in their hidden meaning ... all the major names and titles of Jesus and his disciples were related in some way or another to the isopsephia value of Jesus.
    By the 5th Century BC the name YAHOSHUA was shortened to YASHUA (see Neh. 8:17). By the 1st century AD, probably due to Greek influence, the name YASHUA was shortened twice more ... first to Y'SHUA, and then again to Y'SHU. The Y'shu form seems be a deliberate attempt by orthodox Jews of that time to express their displeasure to the name of Jesus, the recently arrived Greek Christian God who was trying to seduce Jews away from their religion.
    The Greek name Ihsous
    When the Greeks wanted to turn a Hebrew name into a Greek name there were two ways to bring it across the language barrier. One way was by translation, which tries to capture the meaning of a word ... but in the process, loses it's sound. The other way was by transliteration, which tries to capture the sound of the Hebrew word ... but in the process, loses it's meaning.
    Let's look at the most probable scenario of how the four Hebrew letters in the name Y'-Sh-U-A (Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin) were transliterated to Koine Greek.
    • The first Hebrew letter YOD has a “YE” sound. Unfortunately, the Greek language does not have a letter nor a diphthong that has the "Y" sound as in YES! The Greek solution was to pair the two letters IOTA-ETA to produce the sound “EE-AY” which was deemed to be close enough to the Hebrew sound "YE."
    • The second Hebrew letter SHIN has the "SH" sound. This was an even bigger problem because the "SH" sound does not exist in Greek. The Greek solution was to employ the "S" sound made by the letter SIGMA.
    • The third Hebrew letter Vav has a "U" sound. The Greek diphthong "" OMICRON-UPSILON is an exact match because it has the same "OO" sound.
    • The fourth Hebrew letter AYIN has the "AH" sound. According to the Greek rules of grammar, masculine names never end in a vowel sound, and when they do, the name should always be closed with the letter "S" whenever possible. The Greek solution was to drop the final "AH" sound and close out the name with an "S."
    • These four steps produce the name “Iesous” () which is pronounced "EE-AY-SOOS." The name Jesus now has an isopsehia value of "888" units which conjured up the "888" power structure of the whole Greek alphabet.
    Joshua is mentioned two times in the New Testament (Acts 7:45; Heb 4:8), and in both places the Greek text spells his name "" ... the same as Jesus. The original Hebrew translation of the name of Yeho (Yahweh) - shua (saves) is alluded to in the following gospel passage where an angel of the Lord tells Joseph what to name his future son: "you are to name him Iesous because he will save his people from their sins" (Matt 1:21). This passage shows Matthew knew that the first two vowel sounds (ee-ay) in the name of Jesus were meant to be a transliteration of the vowel sounds in the name Yahweh, the almighty monotheistic God of the Hebrews. The gospel of John echoed that knowledge by having Jesus say "I come in the name of my Father" (John 5:43). The last syllable in the name of Jesus (eeay-soos) was probably recognized by the Greeks for it's similarity to the name Zeus (dzoos), the most powerful God in the polytheistic Greek pantheon. Putting the two word plays together, the name Ee-ay-sous oozed with supernatural power because that name implies "Yahweh-Zeus."
    The Latin name Iesus
    The entire New Testament was written in “Koiné” or common Greek, but as the gospel spread into areas where Greek was not spoken, missionaries made translations in other languages such as Coptic, Slavic, and Latin. By the end of the second century many different Latin versions were in circulation. In 382 Jerome translated a standardized Latin Bible called the “Vulgate,” or common Bible. The Latin Bible transliterated the Greek name of Jesus by bringing across all of the Greek sounds in his name. His name was written as "IESUS." The Latin spelling differed from the Greek because the two alphabets are not identical. The Latin pronunciation however was still identical to the Greek "ee-ay-soos." Theodosus made Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire in 391. Jerome's Latin Vulgate soon became the undeclared “official” text of the Roman Church. The Council of Toulouse in 1229 made the Latin Bible official by "expressly forbidding it's translation into vulgar tongues." In 1234 the Council of Tarragona declared: "No person except a cleric may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments and if anyone is found to possess them he must be turned over to the local bishop so that he may be burned at the stake" The Latin spelling and pronunciation of Iesus dominated the Western Christian world for almost 1,000 years.
    The English name Jesus
    The Norman invasion of 1066 introduced the letter "j" to England but the sound of the letter did not exist in the Old English language until the early 1200's. Over the next 300 years the hard "J" sound started to replace male names that began with I or Y because it sounded so masculine. Names like Iames became "James," Iakob became Jacob, and Yohan became "John." During the time the letter J was starting to gain acceptance, John Wycliffe became the first person to translate the New Testament from Latin into English in 1384. He preserved the Latin spelling and pronunciation of IESUS but his translation was unread by the common man because only a few hand-written copies of his Bible were produced which were quickly banned by the Church.
    When Gutenburg invented the printing press the Latin Vulgate Bible became the first book ever printed in 1455. The first printed bible in a foreign tongue was the German Mentel Bible of 1466 followed by the Martin Luther bible of 1522.
    After William Tyndale was denied permission to print an English bible he went to visit Martin Luther and completed his translation of the New Testament in 1525. Tyndale had 18,000 copies printed at Worms and smuggled into England of which only two copies survive. After printing his revised edition of 1534 he was captured in Belgium, tried for heresy by order of the pope, and put to death in 1536 by strangulation after which his body was burned at the stake.
    By the year 1611 the letter "J" was officially part of the English languge and the King James Bible was printed along with pronunciation guides for all proper names like Jesus, Jew, Jeremiah, Jerusalem, Judah, and John. The name "Jesus" has been in use ever since.

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    While the aspect of the transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua into Greek is correct and attested to by the vast majority of linguists, the reference to Yahoshuah being the proper name of Joshua is incorrect. Only the members of the cultic so-called "Holy Name" movement believe it. the vast majority of Hebrew scholars, linguists, and other experts in ancient Hebrew reject that. They state that the most likely pronunciation is Yehoshus, NOT Yahoshua. This is because in Hebrew the word is written יְהוֹשֻֽׁע and the first consonant (yod) has the shva vowel point (:) under it. This means that the usual pronunciation is ĕ (eh).

    But ultimately it does not matter because the many names of God are pronounced quite differently in different languages. There is no legalistic way in which a name must be pronounced. Not even God's. To do so is to lift the regard of a name to the position of idolatry. Jews know the One we who speak English call God, God Almighty, the Lord, the Lord God, etc as El Shaddai, Adonia, Elal, Elohenu, Elohim, Ha Shem, etc and the never-pronounced tetragrammaton. So, too, the name Joshua or Jehoshua is written Jesus (pronounced Hay-SOOS in Spanish), Iaysous, Jisas, Jesu, Isa, Sisa, Azizi, Yusu, Yitju, Ihu, etc, etc, etc. God doesn't care. He knows who are His. He speaks to them and hears their prayers.

    So, while the evolution of the name is interesting from an etymological and philological viewpoint (and possibly from an exegetical one), it means nothing in terms of our regard for God or our worship of Him ... in any of His three Persons.
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    mlb
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    The name of Yahovah is the very authority we stand in and is a powerful name in the Bible it us used some 6800 times and has been covered up because of replacement doctrines that started with the church going Roman in the second century onwards, "Jesus" use the name YAH several times in referrence to Himself that is one reason the pharisees wanted to kill Him, just take Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. Here "Jesus says If, I IAM translated is "If I, "YAH" is lifted up,I will draw all men to myself". Here "Jesus is referring to Himself as God, and He Is.

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by mlb View Post
    The name of Yahovah is the very authority we stand in and is a powerful name in the Bible it us used some 6800 times and has been covered up because of replacement doctrines that started with the church going Roman in the second century onwards, "Jesus" use the name YAH several times in referrence to Himself that is one reason the pharisees wanted to kill Him, just take Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. Here "Jesus says If, I IAM translated is "If I, "YAH" is lifted up,I will draw all men to myself". Here "Jesus is referring to Himself as God, and He Is.
    There is no such name as Yahovah (or Jehovah) in Hebrew. It is not and never was a name of God.

    JEHOVAH je-hō’-va.
    An erroneous form of the divine name of the covenant God of Israel which first appears about 1520 A.D. The error arose from the fact that utterance of the divine name, in original quadrilateral form (the tetragrammaton) YHWH, became unlawful in Jewish usage as early as the third Christian century and probably much earlier, at least outside the sacred precincts (cf. Ex. xx.7; Lev. xxiv. 16. the Septuagint of which reads ‘name the name’ instead of ‘blaspheme the name’). Consequently, in reading the sacred text, ‘Adonai’ (Heb. Adhonai, ‘my Lord’) was pronounced instead of it (or ‘Elohim’ in case the collocation Adhonai Yhwh occurred) and the consonants of Adhonai were often written in the margin of the manuscripts. When the vowel punctuation was added, the vowels of Adhonai were written in the text with the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), which thus appeared to read Yehowah or, according to an older system of transliteration, Jehovah. (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia)

    ‘Jehovah’ is a modern mispronunciation of the Hebrew name, resulting from combining the consonants of that name, YHWH (or JHVH), with the vowels of the word Adonay, Lord,’ which the Jews substituted for the proper name in reading the scriptures... When Christian scholars began to study the Old Testament in Hebrew, if they were ignorant of this rule or regarded the substitution as a piece of Jewish superstition, reading what actually stood in the text, they would inevitably pronounce the name Jehovah.’” (1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 15, p. 314)

    (I wonder how many Jehovah's Witnesses are aware of this??)

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Sorry, but that is completely incorrect. There is no "I AM" there at all. The Greek says: "καγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς ... etc" Which means "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth ... etc" (which speaks of His crucifixion and His resurrection.) There is, as I said, no I AM in that verse ... not even in the verb form. The verb is ὑψωθῶ (hupotho, pronounced hoop-soh-THOH) the first person singular aorist subjunctive passive of the verb ὑψόω (hupoo, pronounced hoo-POH oh); therefore the text clearly says "should (or 'if") I be lifted up" and nowhere is there an "I AM". You cannot separate the "be" from the "lifted up" to try and make it work as "am", because it forms part of the verb, not the pronoun "I".

    Now there are a number of places in the NT where the emphatic Greek Ἐγώ εἰμι (Ego eimi) is used by Jesus, signifying His claim to the divine title. But this is not one of them.

    The Sacred Name movement is a cult and posting of their teaching is specifically forbidden here: please see RF rule #24.

    Please, bro, check out material first and thus refrain from posting information that is clearly and demonstrably erroneous and, for that reason, against our rules..
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    mlb
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
    There is no such name as Yahovah (or Jehovah) in Hebrew. It is not and never was a name of God.

    JEHOVAH je-hō’-va.
    An erroneous form of the divine name of the covenant God of Israel which first appears about 1520 A.D. The error arose from the fact that utterance of the divine name, in original quadrilateral form (the tetragrammaton) YHWH, became unlawful in Jewish usage as early as the third Christian century and probably much earlier, at least outside the sacred precincts (cf. Ex. xx.7; Lev. xxiv. 16. the Septuagint of which reads ‘name the name’ instead of ‘blaspheme the name’). Consequently, in reading the sacred text, ‘Adonai’ (Heb. Adhonai, ‘my Lord’) was pronounced instead of it (or ‘Elohim’ in case the collocation Adhonai Yhwh occurred) and the consonants of Adhonai were often written in the margin of the manuscripts. When the vowel punctuation was added, the vowels of Adhonai were written in the text with the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), which thus appeared to read Yehowah or, according to an older system of transliteration, Jehovah. (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia)
    In the Hebrew language which most of the bible was writen in (all of the old and most of the new) there are no vowels in the Hebrew laguage and thus they were pronounced as being there, you can write out anything you wish leaving out the vowels and you mind will put them in, Yes you are right that the name became to sacred to say because of pursecution of the Jews after Rome wanted to make Christianity a Roman religion ad replaced Israel, Elohim means GOD as Adonia means Lord, Yahovah, Jehovah or Yehovah wich ever translation you want to use means I AM, WHO AM, His name

    Satan Has come to Rob us of our Identity by taking away the word of God and trying to change it as he still is trying, He also tries to kill our relationship with Our God by making our God a distant God and changing our appointed feasts and tries to destroy us by not allowing us to use HIS NAME, not His title Adonia, not His position but HIS MIGHTY NAME, and satan has been effective to a point in doing so untill now as Our God is now begining to reveal HIMSELF to His faithfull as He is going to Glorify His Son Jesus through His People before He comes for His Bride a bride worthy of the KING of KINGS.

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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    His name is whatever He has made Himself known to us as. And "I AM" or "Yahweh/Jehovah" or "Jesus" or any other name that refers to Him in His Word is absolutely perfect. He has anointed countless ministries for years in many languages regardless of how they spell and/or pronounce His Names. While the Sacred Name belief has the sound of man's wisdom, it is not God's. Please no more posts along these lines.
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    Default Re: Wycliffe insiders admit allah used in Bible translations as “cultural bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by mlb View Post
    In the Hebrew language which most of the bible was writen in (all of the old and most of the new) there are no vowels in the Hebrew laguage and thus they were pronounced as being there, you can write out anything you wish leaving out the vowels and you mind will put them in, Yes you are right that the name became to sacred to say because of pursecution of the Jews after Rome wanted to make Christianity a Roman religion ad replaced Israel, Elohim means GOD as Adonia means Lord, Yahovah, Jehovah or Yehovah wich ever translation you want to use means I AM, WHO AM, His name

    Satan Has come to Rob us of our Identity by taking away the word of God and trying to change it as he still is trying, He also tries to kill our relationship with Our God by making our God a distant God and changing our appointed feasts and tries to destroy us by not allowing us to use HIS NAME, not His title Adonia, not His position but HIS MIGHTY NAME, and satan has been effective to a point in doing so untill now as Our God is now begining to reveal HIMSELF to His faithfull as He is going to Glorify His Son Jesus through His People before He comes for His Bride a bride worthy of the KING of KINGS.
    To make it short and sweet, the name Jehovah is an erroneous mixture of 2 Hebrew words, YHWH and Adonai. (BTW, I hope you noticed that I didn't just render a personal opinion but cited 2 independent authoritative sources.)

    Also, we (or at least I) only recognize one "appointed feast". It's commonly called the Lord's Supper and Satan is powerless to change it. (And if we were truly keeping all His Feasts then we should all be in Jerusalem twice a year!)

    I applaud your zeal for respect and fear for the name of God!! But be careful not to take this exact name thing too far. I believe you'll find it fruitless as many before this have proven by their results.
    mattfivefour likes this.

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