Twenty twelve: a significant year

[mckerras]

In Ezekiel 4:4-6, we are given the number of years that God decreed for the exile of the House of Israel and the House of Judah. 390 years for Israel and 40 for Judah, but then in Leviticus 26:18, it states if they still fail to keep the Commandments, the Lord will increase the punishments, firstly for Israel by seven times. Then in verse 21, also increase Israel’s calamities by seven times. [civil wars, black death, etc]
For Judah – Leviticus 26:23-45 says that they will receive seven times seven extra punishment and exile. This passage describes quite well the history and current status of the Jewish people.
The Northern ten tribes of Israel were conquered by King Shalmanasser in 722BC. He took a large number of captives back to Assyria, including 200,000 Jewish prisoners, according to Assyrian records. The King’s library of cuneiform tablets, in Nineveh, inform us that Shalmanassar died in 720BC and was succeeded by King Sargon 2. Sargon took his army again to that important area of the Middle East and defeated a Philistine army in 719BC. He returned home with these captives, as well as the final remainder of the Israelites.
Now, if we multiply 390 X 7 = 2730, then 719 + 2730 – 1 = 2012. Minus one for no year zero. Therefore this year is the last year decreed for the exile and dispersion of the ten tribes of Israel, they will be able to return to their heritage in 2013. How this will happen is prophesied over 40 times, as the second Exodus.
Bruce McKerras

[mattfivefour]

The math is just playing with numbers, my friend. Many people have done similar things, with different dates and numbers, and with similarly flawed results. I have had someone write to me repeatedly with the most ingenious calculations. The guy really is a math whiz and a prophecy scholar. However, nothing he has predicted has yet happened. But, oh, there is always a reason. And after the fact, when what was predicted hasn't happened. Now he has written to me with an April 2012 date. Also very cleverly calculated. I do not expect anything on that date, either. So let's not keep going down this useless road. God didn't call us to calculate dates. He called us to watch and be ready at any moment because at a moment we do not expect He will return. Also, we do not have a guarantee of tomorrow: our soul can be required of us at any moment. And the Rapture also can occur at any second. That's the meaning of imminence.

Secondly, your personal home page states the rapture is post-trib. This is a pre-Trib board. Those are the rules you agreed to when you signed up. If you do not want to abide by what you agreed to, then please leave. If you want to fellowship with us despite the fact we are pre-Trib, then you are most welcome to stay. If you are saved by the blood of the Lamb, then you are our brother in Christ.

[This]

Hi All,

I work on multi-billion dollar projects of unbelievable complexity for a living. I am the project planner / manager on these projects. Without exception, when we plan these projects, we always follow the same SIMPLE process. We determine the end result that will mean success and the end date that it needs to be completed...and we work backwards to today.

Using this process, we determine certain steps that MUST be completed by a certain date. Each of these steps are "milestones" pointing DIRECTLY to the finished project. When you are 25% of the way done, you should have completed around 25% of the steps. When you are 50% of the way done, you should have completed around 50% of the steps, and so on. That way, when the project team looks at the steps completed, one knows exactly how far into the project they are and how much longer before it can be completed.

God not only has done this, but with a complexity INFINITELY more intricate than anything I could ever imagine. For example, God stated six EXTREMELY COMPLEX goals to be accomplished in Daniel 9. He then indicated a timeline as to when and how He was going to get things done. Sure enough, when Jesus came the first time, He came RIGHT ON TIME and as foretold.

And yet no one recognized it from the keepers of the Scriptures, the so-called experts of the day. Instead it took "outsiders" to figure it out. Jesus was very angry about the ignorance of the keepers on His coming and chastised them repeatedly for not seeing the times and not interpreting the prophecies correctly.

Even though most will agree that God "has" followed a project plan "in the past" with certain steps finished at designated times, those exact same people will NOW argue that God is NO LONGER doing this so why bother even looking at His handiwork. However, just like the Jews at the first coming of Jesus, this is once again in direct contrast to the command by Jesus to continuously watch for the signs so that we are not caught unaware.

You are all like brothers and sisters to me and I love you all. But in this particular instance, I am just surprised that so many here express their opinion with borderline contempt as if it was a FACT that God wouldn't want us to intently study His beautiful Project Plan to try to figure ROUGHLY what is next and when. If my project plans are complex, and I am a "complete and utter moron" compared to God, just imagine the inner workings, in particular with respect to Israel / Jerusalem's history, that points to His majesty and control if you would just STUDY it. And yet many of you, including MattFiveFour, feel that taking the time to do this would be a "useless road".

I know I will receive great grief from some of you for expressing an opinion contrary to what many of you have passionately believe, but I do not care if you are upset with me for doing so. All I care about is what Jesus thinks and He SPECIFICALLY commanded us to LOOK and STUDY and DERIVE the signs in order to KNOW when His coming was AT THE DOOR. If you did, as I have, you would see wondrous signs and historical indicators pointing to exactly why we can KNOW His coming is AT THE DOOR right now versus relying on chance and gut feel!!

Please forgive me for my directness on this subject, but I feel many here have been misled on this passionate subject!

MARANATHA!! May God bless you all!! I will see you all in the air SOON!!

[livin_in_the_Son]

THIS, I'm replying directly to you because, well, I NEED to. I have spent my life living with a man who's main purpose is to set timelines, deadlines, project updates, and predicted failures of meeting goals. My dad, while remains a VERY structured man, taught me that "deadlines" are supposed to be met, by any means, and any deviation is failure.

When the members here chastise for "date-setting", or predictions, it's not out of contempt as you say, but out of love for the many undecided who visit this site. If I were to say that you would win the lottery tomorrow, and you don't...your faith in me would be shaken, if not downright lost forever. The same can be said for predicting when the coming prophesies might happen....if you're wrong, how many lost their faith? Not just in you, but in God? Just look at all the followers of Camping...

While it is most beneficial in showing non-believers events that were predicted, the fact is that it's NOT our job to point out predictions, but to be a witness for Jesus by our testimony, and telling about salvation through grace. Everything else is just icing on the cake, and the Holy Spirit holds all the sprinkles (was that awful?).

As believers we don't need to know the when, just that it's soon, so instead of studying what happens next, because we won't be here for most of it...instead go out there and tell a neighbor about salvation through Jesus Christ. Because, we all know the signs of the season...and it's soon.

And know that I mean no ill-feelings at all by this post.

[mattfivefour]

THIS, there is no grief coming toward you ... at least not from this quarter. I respect your human talents very much ... and I understand your application of that to the scriptures. I just happen to disagree with you. But I still love you as my dear brother in the Lord.

[This]

Hi All,

I appreciate the responses of MattFiveFour & Livin_in_the_Son very much!! The obvious love and care taken in crafting their replies touched my heart. However, please let me explain to you all why I have such a strong opinion on why I disagree with some of what is said here.

I am a man of science and math, plain and simple. It is the way God made me. As a function of my business circle, most of my friends and colleagues are also men and women of science and math. When I approach them about the Gospel and Jesus, this is a concept that they simply cannot grasp - AT FIRST. However, when I show them the science of God in terms of Biblical scientific truths, this gets them interested. Then, when I show them that God is not some impersonal object in the sky but is taking a personal interest in the history of the world through Israel / Jerusalem, this REALLY gets them interested.

Without date setting, I then show them all the signs and Bible verses and history that points directly to where we are now. I then ask them to investigate this themselves. I then get them to study the miracle of the 1948 & 1967 victories by the Jews when so vastly outnumbered. Using this technique, these men and women of science suddenly realize that the Bible and, more specifically, the Lord of the Bible, is not just some out-dated work of fiction. It is THEN that these men of women of science realize that God is VASTLY superior to their intellect and they then want to connect with Him.

This is when the Gospel comes in as real to them and not before. Now the Holy Spirit does His work. I do not use "date-setting" to save anyone, a date never will and I will never try. All I am saying is that each person is different and requires a different path to be saved. For me, it was the mathematical awesomeness of the 1967 Six-Day War that led me to beg for Jesus about 3 weeks later. For me, it was MATH FIRST, THEN THE GOSPEL.

I have used this technique on three of my science buddies - one engineer, a computer programmer and a systems analyst. Their eyes glazed over when I talked the Gospel (which will ALWAYS be king), but when I showed them that even the history books dance to God's will, THAT IS WHEN THEY LISTENED. Since then, they have given their lives to Christ. Not because of a date or anything I said, but because they were led to the right door using an unusual technique.

To some, this intense study may be a "useless road", but to me it was a strange path to Christ (as it was to some of my friends). Several others have used this technique and have had great success. I had one woman write to me wherein she indicated that nothing she could say would get her "evolutionist" believing husband to listen to what she had to say about Jesus and the Gospel. That changed when He saw that our Master was guiding the world's history like a well-tuned instrument with a document I supplied her that I have linked below. But it is not just a testimony I heard from one person. This is a testimony I have heard several times, usually from wives desparate to get their "science minded" husbands to listen.

Again, this is not "date-setting", but rather just reasons for believing we are in the season. For those who are curious, an example of the math I have used is linked here: If you don't love Jesus YET, I dare you to read this!!! TIME IS ALMOST OUT!!. As with everything, please use your discernment. This is math and if you are not into it, you won't get it and won't want to. But for some, it could be the FIRST STEP towards Christ. All I ask is that you pray on this without judgment. I request that this link not be removed by the moderators as NO SOULS will be lost because of it. On the other hand, there is a real possibility that SOULS can be saved because of it. I know this because IT HAS - I'VE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES!!

Thanks for listening!

[mattfivefour]

I will not remove the link, bro. People can read what you have written and make up their own minds. I may not agree with you, but I have read the material at the link and it may very well be used of God to cause people of a mathematical, engineering, science bent to consider the Word of God. As your efforts are spurred by a desire to see people saved may those efforts be blessed, my brother.

[OnceWasLost]

Let's state the obvious, we are indeed to look around and weigh the times of the signs/signs of the times. Jesus did indeed chastise those who failed to do so. (Matthew 16:1-4) It's why we have a 'Breaking News' and an entire section for such matters as part of Rapture Forums.

Where we have the problem is when, by calculations, people try to nail down dates for His return which we cannot know. (Matthew 24:36)

None of us would be here if we didn't see the signs all around us, it keeps our eyes focused on our Blessed Hope. (1 John 3:1-3) We want to avoid any possible attempt to set a date or window of time, as has been done for decades and only gives fuel for the scoffers. (2 Peter 3:3-4) All the while having the reverse effect on those looking to Jesus for His return. (Proverbs 13:12)

I would hope we could all agree upon this.

[mattfivefour]

I have no doubt that our brother's math is impeccable—and maybe even ingenious. But that is not the issue. The issue is the highest level possible of man's wisdom, knowledge and skill ... versus God's.

As I have said here before, there is a very good reason God has not given us the possibility of knowing the date. Man being man, many would put off actually getting down to business with God until the date approached. It was not idle words that caused Jesus to repeatedly let us know in different parables that the "Lord's" return would be sudden and unexpected. He has given us to know the signs and the times. That is it. There is NO WAY He will ever give us more ... for the reason stated. Let the wise man consider ... and consider his ways. We have no guarantee that we will not be in the hands of the undertaker today. Nor do we have any guarantee that we will not be in the hands of the Uppertaker, either. We must be ready at all times, not looking to some calculated date in future.

[This]

MattFiveFour,

You have done all that I have asked for by allowing the link to stay and I THANK YOU FOR IT. If even one soul is INDIRECTLY saved because of your "tolerance", may the Lord allow you to see it some day! THANK YOU!! You may disagree with me, but you have ALWAYS respected me and it comes through in your awesome communication style. You have been, and continue to be, someone I admire and emulate as a mentor and a friend.

God bless you, MattFiveFour, for being SUCH A HUGE BLESSING to so many on this excellent website!!

[Everlasting Life]

As far as prophecy and seeing the sign of the times as derived from the bible, there is a fine line that must be protected for two reasons I'm thinking of.

One side of that line is to indeed look into the bible for prophecy to show others God's hand in history, our lives and his Truth's, to see clearly that Christ's coming is close at hand. Which, if used to bring people to Christ is wonderful!

It's the other side that's dangerous in that many can be led astray, become disheartened, and even fall away because of false predictions...such as the recent Harold Camping incident as discussed in the thread I've pasted below. I can only imagine the blow to those who fell wholeheartedly for this man's teachings.

It is right not to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak, however, for the sake of Christ's reputation in the world, and to not cause undue harm to believers one must be careful about specific date setting...Christ Himself said that no man knows the day or the hour, however we certainly can ascertain the season.




Harold Camping Repents, Apologizes for False Teachings

Family Radio Founder Harold Camping Repents, Apologizes for False Teachings
 Bible Teacher Confesses He Was Wrong to Predict Christ's Return; Says God Has Not Stopped Saving People
 By Nicola Menzie | Christian Post Reporter
 
With his speech sounding somewhat slurred and labored, Family Radio Stations Inc. founder and chairman Harold Camping sought to address in a recent message why Christ failed to return on Oct. 21 as the Bible teacher had predicted. Camping confessed, after decades of falsely misleading his followers, that he was wrong and regrets his misdeeds.
 
In addition to attempting to correct his erroneous teachings on the Rapture and God's day of final judgment on the world, Camping, 90, also confessed, "incidentally," that he was wrong to claim that God had stopped saving people after May 21 – the date which God's so-called "spiritual" judgment had begun.
 
This is undoubtedly a radical shift for Camping, who has staunchly claimed since 1992 that he had discovered a special numerical system in the Bible that allowed him to calculate the exact dates of certain events, such as the Great Flood, the Crucifixion and the day of Jesus Christs return to Earth.
 
Camping first falsely predicted that the world would end on Sept. 6, 1994, then again on May 21, 2011, and finally on Oct. 21. 

The coloring of this paste was unintentional....I'd meant to put a simple paste. Just sayin......... :-)