Rise of the State of Judea

[Chris]

Rise of the State of Judea

Rise of the State of Judea
By Ryan Jones

Israel Today covered in our January 2012 issue the growing phenomenon of "Price Tag" acts of vandalism by some Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria angry over the ongoing threat to their homes by hostile Arab gangs and international diplomatic pressure, and the Israeli government's seeming apathy toward their plight.

Recently this situation got top Israeli officials talking about the possibility of civil war after a "price tag" attack was perpetrated against an Israeli army base. It also resurrected talk about splitting from Israel and establishing a separate State of Judea.

A source in Samaria tells Israel Today that the State of Judea is already a de facto reality.

There is already a Jewish uprising happening in Judea and Samaria that the media and government are doing their best to hide from the public, said the source.

"The idea of splitting from Israel is gaining, for the sake of Israel as well," our contact said.. "More and more [settlers] understand that they are here despite the Israeli establishment, and they see more and more differences between the themselves and the Israelis."

This is especially true of the younger generation of Jews in Judea and Samaria, who "do not see themselves as "Israeli" and would be ready to die for the land."

The idea of a State of Judea has been around since 1988, when settler rabbis proposed it in response to PLO leader Yasser Arafat's Declaration of Independence. Prominent rabbis began revisiting the idea in the wake of the Gaza pullout in 2005, and stated that if a large-scale withdrawal were ever ordered for Judea and Samaria, they would put the State of Judea plan in motion.

With the ongoing demonization of the Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria, both by the international community and by the left-wing institutions of their own nation, it would seem a forced uprooting is no longer required, and the splitting of Israel into two separate Jewish states is already underway.

So, while external diplomatic pressure may ultimately fail to divide the Land of Israel, it is succeeding in dividing the people of Israel, and that is a point for prayer that is often overlooked as we focus on the former threat.

[Elijah's Mantle]

Israel as a whole should be very careful how they deal at the Negotiation table regarding Judea something BTW we all need to be in constant watch and prayer about
Its kinda critical for a few rational reasons .

[mattfivefour]

... while external diplomatic pressure may ultimately fail to divide the Land of Israel, it is succeeding in dividing the people of Israel, and that is a point for prayer that is often overlooked ...

Or perhaps a point FOR prayer.

Amen.

[Faulty]

I remember a number of years ago, Jimmy DeYoung pointed out a passage that seems to indicate that Israel would indeed be two seperate states once again at the end. So, this is rather interesting.

This was it...

Ezek 37:15-23
The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’ And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

This is something that is preceeding the Ezekiel 38-39 war.

[Sean Osborne]

I remember a number of years ago, Jimmy DeYoung pointed out a passage that seems to indicate that Israel would indeed be two seperate states once again at the end. So, this is rather interesting.

This was it...

Ezek 37:15-23
The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, take a stick and write on it, ‘For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him’; then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.’ And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. And when your people say to you, ‘Will you not tell us what you mean by these?’ say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

This is something that is preceeding the Ezekiel 38-39 war.

Actually, the proper interpretation of this prophecy is precisely the opposite. Ezekiel's prophecy is that the tribes of Joseph (all Israel) and the Judah would unite to form one nation in the last days.

A "State of Judah" is not rising. It is one nation Israel that is. Ezekiel 38/39 is the proof that this interpretation is correct.

In fact, nowhere in the Bible is there any prophetic mention of a re-born "State of Judah." Therefore, all such "State of Judah" nonsense is extra-Biblical and worthless because some man has said it.

[WKUHilltopper]

Rise of the State of Judea

There may be some dopes who try to split up Israel with promoting a Judean state--but I wouldn't want to be around when they try to pull this knuckle head move off! I don't think Scripturally there's anything to this happening...not during this present day. They may try it, but no cigar. In fact, I would bet the cigar is one of those exploding gag cigars.

[Faulty]

Actually, the proper interpretation of this prophecy is precisely the opposite. Ezekiel's prophecy is that the tribes of Joseph (all Israel) and the Judah would unite to form one nation in the last days.

A "State of Judah" is not rising. It is one nation Israel that is. Ezekiel 38/39 is the proof that this interpretation is correct.

In fact, nowhere in the Bible is there any prophetic mention of a re-born "State of Judah." Therefore, all such "State of Judah" nonsense is extra-Biblical and worthless because some man has said it.

We'll have to disagree about that. Exactly how do you see chp 38 refuting it?

[Elijah's Mantle]

precisely one of the reasons we need to more over regard
divisions and splits that yes some knuckle heads would promote regarding Israel

A "State of Judah" is not rising. It is one nation Israel that is. Ezekiel 38/39 is the proof that this interpretation is correct.

read 37 about the sign of the two sticks
few weeks back I studied out what the two sticks represented
anyway the whole of it is as sean states

""And join them one to another into one stick and they shall become one in your hand ""

this is brought about by the hand of the Lord folks
which means there will never again be divided or divisions regarding what we know is the houses of Israel the Northern confederation sometimes called Ephraim or Samaria and the southern kingdom known as Judah

Israel must be careful regarding this because read it

say unto them
"""THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD """

what does God say ????

take the stick of Joseph which is in the hand of Ephraim and the tribes of Israel

ok someone needs to pass this along to Benjamin Netanyanhu for his Bible study possibly

Its a enemy tactic to sugest or attmpt a division regarding Judea and Israel

Thus saith the Lord says it all

Is this a tempting snare for Israel
of course it is but it is of the enemy

lett
thus saith the Lord rise over Israel and the leaders regarding Judea they must be cautious the enemy lurks all around them we know the covenant is everlasting

pray Israel's enemies does not demand Israel to deal treacherously at the negotiation table with Judea

[Elijah's Mantle]

the sign of the two sticks would come up and surface considering right now Israel is very aware of the
""two red lines"" with the current situation


gosh I never seen something till now


pray for Israel to remember ""thus saith the Lord " and take serious what would come up at stake should they allow division

a house divided never stands

[Elijah's Mantle]

There is Israels pre-emptive answers
BIG AS DAYLIGHT



sean our best writer
you ought to write Israel sean could do it to

[Elijah's Mantle]

Im about flabbergasted

God can surely cause Israel to realize a strategy on these two
red lines

we gota have faith and pray

[Elijah's Mantle]

rise of a plan for Israel
with this two red line situation

Im tickled to death over this

I never realized something till It hit me like a brick

God's not missing nothing folks

what will be Israel leaders needs to have a think tank on a very possible possibility

Its their preemptive answer in two looking impossible but its not the enemy just wants it to appear that a wway

no way

Israel intelligence is smarter than that
they have to be

[Sean Osborne]

We'll have to disagree about that.

Show me prophetic Scripture which proves there will be a Judean State. Without that, this discussion is about a moot point.

Exactly how do you see chp 38 refuting it?

I did not say Ezekiel 38 refutes it, I said Ezekiel 38 and 39 refutes it. Got a Bible? Please read Ezekiel 38 and 39. Look for a single reference to "Judah." Good luck finding it.

Ezekiel 38b states: "In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely."

This speaks to one nation, not two. It speaks only of Israel... there is zero mentions of a "Judah."

Onwards in verses 14 and 16 the prophetic text reads "My people Israel" twice. There is zip, zero, nada in the text about "My people Judah."

Verse 18: "when Gog comes against the land of Israel..." Oops, there it is again... no Judah mentioned.
Verse 19: "...in the land of Israel..." No Judah.

Ezekiel 39

39:2 "...the mountains of Israel"
39:7 "...My people Israel...I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel..."
39:9 "...Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel..."

What? Is this non-existent Judah to be a nation of non-existent cities? Is Gog of Magog to ignore Judah?

Or is it that there is no Judah at all because there is only Israel?

Obviously... there is no Judah.

Oh, and just for good measure... Ezekiel 39:11 "It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude."

This location is not in Israel today... it is in western Jordan, but in that day it will be the territory of the State of Israel. Sorry, again, no Judah.

Verse 12: "...the house of Israel..." No house of Judah.

I'll stop there because by now the correct interpretation should be blatantly obvious... there is no "Judah" in the last days Bible prophecy. It does not exist excepting only SYMBOLICALLY in Ezekiel 37 where the two former and ancient nations are fused into just one nation - Israel. This occurred on May 15, 1948 and will never be un-done.

[mattfivefour]

Agreed!

[Elijah's Mantle]

yep

Here is a little old tidbit and the reason I like it so much is because it gives the names and explains it in a sense so that folks can more grasp Biblical History regarding the people and the lands now note something of significance about our current president and just what road he is on with Israel
this was from April 22, 2011 so it is a little old but come on we can only guess what is brewing up with this old contention coming back to surface , but read this book
and see if it don't strike you whats before Israel and why we need to really pay close attention to the efforts being made Globally with this pending situation of two red lines Israel intelligeince has to consider with Israels National security .
Look how the hooks are getting plunged into Russia
then read on and look , Its beyond intricate but yet so simple I just pray Israel realizes it
we serve a mighty God ,a mighty mighty God ya'll
at least we have some insight into what the enemy is attempting to bring back around again and I guess I hate to say this in a way the Nations may just have to learn who God is that includes America seemingly no break for Israel but I just see things a little more than I ever have
this is just more evidence God is never going to be mocked by raging heathens his word is so solid and all this leads me to believe more over the rapture is reality . God knows what will be and we have to filter things through what God says and not man Its imperative we have faith in this time regarding what thus say the Lord God .Its all here big as day , if I realize what I do I just know Israel intelligence will they are bright minded and will see it . There is a great possibility they have already seen the answer to the per-emptive problems If these raging heathens had a lick of sense they would not be doing certain things regarding Israel
worse is they have indicted themselves
Israel does not have to fear as much as they do
and the wild part is they dont see it
blindness is dangerous
Jewish, Not Arab, Roots in Judea and Samaria
by Hillel Fendel (Israel National News)

U.S. Pres. Barack Obama’s demand that Israel not settle Jews in the Biblical areas of Judea and Samaria ignores thoroughly-documented Jewish roots in the Land of Israel, and in Judea/Samaria in particular.

Yoram Ettinger, a former liaison for Congressional affairs in Israel’s Washington embassy, lists in the latest of his periodic position papers some of the evidence showing that Judea and Samaria has Jewish, not Arab, roots.

Area Always Known as “Judea and Samaria”

Ettinger negates Obama’s claim – enunciated during his June 4, 2009 speech at Cairo University – that “the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in” the Holocaust. For one thing, Ettinger notes, many world-renowned travelers, historians and archeologists of earlier centuries refer to “Judea and Samaria,” while the term “West Bank” was coined only 60 years ago.

Jordan gave the region this name when it occupied it after Israel’s War of Independence. No nation on earth other than Britain and Pakistan recognized Jordan’s claim to Judea and Samaria.

Among the travelers, historians and archeologists who referred to Judea and Samaria are H. B. Tristram (The Land of Israel, 1865); Mark Twain (Innocents Abroad, 1867); R.A. MacAlister and Masterman (“Palestine Exploration Fund Quarterly”); A.P. Stanley (Sinai and Palestine, 1887); E. Robinson and E. Smith (Biblical Researches in Palestine, 1841); C.W. Van de Velde (Peise durch Syrien und Paletsinea, 1861); and Felix Bovet (Voyage en Taire Sainte, 1864). Even the Encyclopedia Britannica, as well as official British and Ottoman records until 1950, used the term Judea and Samaria, and not the West Bank.

Land Was Named "Palestine" in Order to Erase Jewish Presence

Ettinger goes even further back, and says that the name “Palestine”, which had nothing to do with a people that existed, but was given to the Holy Land for the sole purpose of erasing the previous name of the country – Judea – from human memory. The Romans, whose plan this was, similarly sought to extinguish Jewish presence in Jerusalem by renaming it Aelia Capitolina.

Arabs Came in the Last 150 Years

When speaking of “Palestinian national rights,” it must be similarly kept in mind, Ettinger notes, that most Arabs residing today in Israel – anywhere between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean – have their origin in a massive 19th-20th century migration from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and other Moslem countries. They adopted the title “Palestinian”, which gives the impression of ancient ties to the land.

Town Names Betray Their True History

Finally, Ettinger says that almost all Arab localities in Judea and Samaria have retained Biblical Jewish names, thus reaffirming their Jewish roots. Examples include the following:

Anata is Biblical (and contemporary) Anatot, the dwelling of the Prophet Jeremiah.
Batir is Biblical (and contemporary) Beitar, the headquarters of Bar Kochba, the leader of the Great Rebellion against the Roman Empire, which was suppressed in 135 AD.
Beit-Hur is the biblical (and contemporary) Beit Horon, site of Judah the Maccabee’s victory over the Assyrians.
Beitin is biblical (and contemporary) Beit El, a site of the Holy Ark and Prophet Samuel’s court.
Bethlehem is mentioned 44 times in the Bible and is the birth place of King David.
Beit Jalla is biblical (and contemporary) Gilo, in southern Jerusalem, where Sennacherib set his camp, while besieging Jerusalem.
El-Jib is biblical (and contemporary) Gibeon, Joshua’s battleground known for his command to stop the sun and moon (Joshua 10:12).
Jaba’ is the biblical (and contemporary) Geva, site of King Saul’s son Jonathan’s victory over the Philistines.
Jenin is the biblical (and contemporary) Ein Ganim, a Levite town within the tribe of Issachar.
Mukhmas is biblical (and contemporary) Mikhmash, residence of Jonathan the Maccabee and site of King Saul’s fortress.
Seilun is biblical (and contemporary) Shilo, a site of Joshua’s tabernacle and the Holy Ark and Samuel’s youth.
Tequa is biblical (and contemporary) Tekoa, hometown of the Prophet Amos.


Arabs Never Wanted Palestinian State

In another of his posts, Ettinger has negated the US government position that a Palestinian state is the crux of the Arab-Israeli conflict and that its formation would resolve the situation. He cites proofs from recent history showing that Arab antipathy to Israel not only predates Palestinian concerns, but often sidesteps such interests.

Israel’s war for its independence in 1948-9, for instance, was conducted by the Arab countries at the expense of local aspirations. Though Egypt conquered Gaza, and Jordan took Judea and Samaria, and Syria claimed the Golan, in none of these areas was a government of local Arabs allowed.

When Egypt conquered the Gaza Strip, it proceeded to prohibit “Palestinian” national activities and expelled its leadership. Not only did Jordan not grant locals independence to Judea and Samaria, it actually annexed these areas to its own country. When Syria occupied and annexed the Hama area in the Golan Heights, the Arab League outlawed a provisional “Palestinian” government there.

In short, it can be concluded that Arab “rights” to a state in Judea and Samaria are historically weak and were long ignored by other Arab countries.

[Yehoshua]

Show me prophetic Scripture which proves there will be a Judean State. Without that, this discussion is about a moot point.



I did not say Ezekiel 38 refutes it, I said Ezekiel 38 and 39 refutes it. Got a Bible? Please read Ezekiel 38 and 39. Look for a single reference to "Judah." Good luck finding it.

Ezekiel 38b states: "In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely."

This speaks to one nation, not two. It speaks only of Israel... there is zero mentions of a "Judah."

Onwards in verses 14 and 16 the prophetic text reads "My people Israel" twice. There is zip, zero, nada in the text about "My people Judah."

Verse 18: "when Gog comes against the land of Israel..." Oops, there it is again... no Judah mentioned.
Verse 19: "...in the land of Israel..." No Judah.

Ezekiel 39

39:2 "...the mountains of Israel"
39:7 "...My people Israel...I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel..."
39:9 "...Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel..."

What? Is this non-existent Judah to be a nation of non-existent cities? Is Gog of Magog to ignore Judah?

Or is it that there is no Judah at all because there is only Israel?

Obviously... there is no Judah.

Oh, and just for good measure... Ezekiel 39:11 "It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude."

This location is not in Israel today... it is in western Jordan, but in that day it will be the territory of the State of Israel. Sorry, again, no Judah.

Verse 12: "...the house of Israel..." No house of Judah.

I'll stop there because by now the correct interpretation should be blatantly obvious... there is no "Judah" in the last days Bible prophecy. It does not exist excepting only SYMBOLICALLY in Ezekiel 37 where the two former and ancient nations are fused into just one nation - Israel. This occurred on May 15, 1948 and will never be un-done.

Brother you sound so theologically tight and correct but where is the love when teaching? tidbits of cynicism and irony("Got a Bible?" "Oops, there it is again... no Judah mentioned.")can be awesome and funny but not when dealing with teaching scriptures brother. I dont mean as an attack...just watch your words, because despite the intentions here, words are all we have to portray His heart. And by demeaning someone with less knowledge of scripture doesnt actually build them up but MAY tear them down.

But nevertheless, youre correct in your statement about no judah. It is the truth and the Lord spoken.

Shalom in the Lord and love brothers...."the love of many shall grow cold"...let's not be of that group...cuz when love grows cold, guess what follows in...hope and faith.

<3 =)

Maranatha Lord!!

[Sean Osborne]

Brother you sound so theologically tight and correct but where is the love when teaching?

Yehoshua,
The love is there. Most folks know that I teach in like manner as an Army drill instructor, i.e. with 'tough love.' This is especially evident when dealing with a false teaching as was presented in this thread and as originated by Jewish Rabbi Yoel Keren (a former born-and-raised Christian who converted to Judaism and then denied every prophecy in the New Testament: "I began realizing that virtually every prophesy that the New Testament quotes as being a messianic prophecy was mistranslated, misattributed, chopped up, or sometimes even invented out of thin air!") and his plans to divide the land of Israel from what God has declared to be His will. This false teaching has now even spread to the prophecies of the Old Testament, and certain Christian prophecy teachers who have decided to follow this errant path. This is another case of "God said" and then "man said" which is just as wrong as wrong can be. Jesus vented His anger at the appropriate moments. That is my model as well.

[Yehoshua]

Yehoshua,
The love is there. Most folks know that I teach in like manner as an Army drill instructor, i.e. with 'tough love.' This is especially evident when dealing with a false teaching as was presented in this thread and as originated by Jewish Rabbi Yoel Keren (a former born-and-raised Christian who converted to Judaism and then denied every prophecy in the New Testament: "I began realizing that virtually every prophesy that the New Testament quotes as being a messianic prophecy was mistranslated, misattributed, chopped up, or sometimes even invented out of thin air!") and his plans to divide the land of Israel from what God has declared to be His will. This false teaching has now even spread to the prophecies of the Old Testament, and certain Christian prophecy teachers who have decided to follow this errant path. This is another case of "God said" and then "man said" which is just as wrong as wrong can be. Jesus vented His anger at the appropriate moments. That is my model as well.

Shalom brother Sean!
I have no doubt the love is there if you're His. And i doubt not even for a second you're secure in what the Lord has given you to share with others, and teaching is definitely a gift you have...but tough love is not the same as love. Let's take Paul for example...that man was ruthless sometimes...but even though all he had were words to reveal God's heart, and even though he was being tough, the love was evident THROUGH the words spoken...and hey, dont get me wrong, i put my foot in my mouth so often it isn't funny, but when we teach, especially to all the world to see, we oughtta be careful with how we say things just so others can get built up too right...I understand also the anger being vented, as Jesus did, but that was an anger to fulfill prophecy about His zeal for His father's house, and was righteous anger, used in context and with the right words (how I see it though...doesnt mean it's right).

But now we are closing in to wasting time talking about something that's done already ahah...please dont receive this an attack but as i said before we just oughtta live out what we have in our hearts also...or do we not live it out cuz it is not settled in our hearts yet? i can only answer for myself.

Nevertheless, I have nothing against you and this is more a conversation starter and something for us to talk about rather than me calling someone out....cuz i mean...stick around me and you'll see im not perfect when it comes to speaking out whats in my heart ahaha especially in the mornings with toronto transit system being completely ridiculous! :p

Shalom in the Lord :)

Maranatha Jesus!