The Choice

[Chris]

I don't think that we need to appeal to tradition. Just because that is what people have believed for a long time doesn't make it right. If that were the case we should all be RCC.

Matthew 10:28 where Christ speaks of the wicked being destroyed "both body and soul

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There are others as well. The concept of second death, but I can't remember the chapter and verse at the moment, but the words death and perish have difinate meanings. The Ancient Jews believed in Shoel and did not think the wicked got eternal life, but also didn't believe in eternal suffering.

There is no need to be so wrapped up in ideas because of tradition. That God won't torture us for being flawed is good. God is great and tuely just.

We hold to conservative and time tested theology that takes the Bible as it fits together as a whole. We do not hold to false teachings such as annihilationism, etc. The soul is eternal, nothing speaks of the soul being annihilated. The second death is eternal separation from God, it never mentions cessation. And don't worry about the Jewish traditions, it's following them that got the Jews in trouble to start with. It is either eternal punishment or eternal life. One or the two. This has already been addressed numerous times with you on this board. And as well in your past account on the board (thought you were being sneaky signing up twice, huh?). If I were you'd drop it for the day. You may find yourself removed from the board yet again.

[luckyhouston]

We hold to conservative and time tested theology that takes the Bible as it fits together as a whole. We do not hold to false teachings such as annihilationism, etc. The soul is eternal, nothing speaks of the soul being annihilated. The second death is eternal separation from God, it never mentions cessation. And don't worry about the Jewish traditions, it's following them that got the Jews in trouble to start with. It is either eternal punishment or eternal life. One or the two. This has already been addressed numerous times with you on this board. And as well in your past account on the board (thought you were being sneaky signing up twice, huh?). If I were you'd drop it for the day. You may find yourself removed from the board yet again.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

The words death and perish have meaning. I am sorry you are so emotionally invested in the Idea that God tortures people for eternity, or why that makes you feel better, but tradition isn't the reason to believe. It isn't the reason to be RCC or the theology of this board.

With that I will drop it.

[Chris]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

The words death and perish have meaning. I am sorry you are so emotionally invested in the Idea that God tortures people for eternity, or why that makes you feel better, but tradition isn't the reason to believe. It isn't the reason to be RCC or the theology of this board.

With that I will drop it.

Yes, they have meaning and they have already been explained to you by the other mods. I'm sorry you deaf to any correction of your errors in theology.

I am sorry you are so emotionally invested in your WORD, that you disagree and disregard what GOD'S WORD says about the subject. With that, see ya another time.

[cspat64]

If God said so in the Bible, it is good enough for me. He is God...after all who are we to criticize His judgement?

[readytogo]

I understand what you are trying to say, but I must say I think it misses the mark on a couple points.

It isn't about a single choice, but constant choices to live the life God commands.

Also, to simply say its our choice ignores that God alone is creator and judge. God as judge determines our fate. The only thing we as humans control is how we live, and what we believe. God creates the nature of our punishment and carries out the sentence.

But it IS about a single choice!! To live our lives trying to avoid God and/or His commandments OR to admit that we are born sinners and to fall on His mercy and grace to accept the death of Jesus Christ as the substitute for our sins.

God didn't create us to be evil---evil is the absence of good. He created us to be able to choose between doing good or not doing good. He doesn't force us to not do good. We do that all on our own. But since He knew that we would be incapable of ALWAYS choosing good, He offered up a sacrifice for us that would serve for always. There's where the single choice comes in....accept or reject that sacrifice for ourselves.

[Robert]

I understand what you are trying to say, but I must say I think it misses the mark on a couple points.

It isn't about a single choice, but constant choices to live the life God commands.

Also, to simply say its our choice ignores that God alone is creator and judge. God as judge determines our fate. The only thing we as humans control is how we live, and what we believe. God creates the nature of our punishment and carries out the sentence.

We choose whether we want to spend eternity with the Lord or without; all God does is confirm the destiny we have chosen. God judges, but not on whether we will be saved or not. Scripture is clear on that, but apparently you want to find reason to accuse the Lord.


You might want to be careful about that; God hates liars, and to accuse Him of evil or torture is a big fat LIE.

[Hannah]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

The words death and perish have meaning. I am sorry you are so emotionally invested in the Idea that God tortures people for eternity, or why that makes you feel better, but tradition isn't the reason to believe. It isn't the reason to be RCC or the theology of this board.

With that I will drop it.

The Bible speaks of two deaths. The physical one of the body and the second eternal death which is for the spirit.

REV 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

REV 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I am not emotionally invested in this teaching. It is God's Truth and what you or I feel about it doesn't change this teaching and it's Truth!

The body is physical and it perishes but the spirit of man is eternal and doesn't die or just cease to exist. If you do not choose to spend your eternity with God in Heaven then you will spend it separated from God and the Bible clearly tells us what the place of separation of God will be like.

REV 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

The description above is clear. Your eternal spirit will go to eternal torment. That is why we preach the gospel of salvation in the hope many will hear it and choose to repent and receive eternal life instead.

[Chris]

It isn't a false teaching if it is true. This is a complex issue, and you seem to have a lot of emotion wrapped up into it. I understand that, but you aren't God, and thus not perfect. If you ban those who might honestly dissagree and who point to the scripture then you are in line with the ancient RCC or other cult like groups. You are not the decider of truth. Do not fall to the sin of pride. Or raising your opinion to be equal with God.

Remember, that goes for yourself, too. And no it is not a complex issue, it has been made crystal clear to you, but you don't see it as your rose colored glasses of annihilation won't let you see things as they really are.

You're not God either and your opinion, which is not supported by the scriptures, is not equal with God as well. We don't allow false teachings on the board and will keep the board free from "clutter" such as the annihilation doctrine taught by clay men who can't stand the fact that many have rejected God's perfect sacrifice for the payment of sin. It is truly either eternal life or eternal punishment. Sadly many will choose punishment and separation from God since they had no love of the truth and would not search things out for themselves.

[mattfivefour]

Brother luckyhouston seems to think that entering into an assembly, bringing in his ideas, and then berating the assembly and its leaders for not agreeing with him is a proper thing to do. Frankly, this is something that would not be tolerated in any church assembly. And RF is indeed a church assembly in every sense of the word. We allowed this man to come in and state his belief and answered his views with our own based on scripture rather than human thinking. He refused to accept this and persisted in his arguing. Our views are not casually derived, nor the product of wishful thinking. All of us have studied God's Word prayerfully and in depth and have been led of the Spirit to adopt views that, as it turns out, coincide with those that have formed the mainstream of Christianity since the founding of the Church. As I discussed with Chris and OWL, Romans 16:17 says, "Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them." Titus 3:10 "Reject a factious (Grk αἱρετικός—hairetikos—"causing division") man after a first and second warning." Therefore, sadly, luckyhouston is no longer in this fellowship.