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  1. #41
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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    Which version of Roman Numerals?

    I don't have a preferable version of any of my Bibles. I got them either as a present or I picked them up for myself in a Christian Bookstore so whatever version they happen to have had at the time.

    I have no version preference.

    To help you out Hannah, i believe the "LXX" is also called the Septuagint:

    The Septuagint derives its name from Latin versio septuaginta interpretum,"translation of the seventy interpreters," (Greek: ἡ μετάφρασις τῶν ἑβδομήκοντα, hē metáphrasis tōn hebdomēkonta), "translation of the seventy ".[3][14] The title refers to a legendary account in the pseudepigraphic Letter of Aristeas of how seventy-two Jewish scholars were asked by the Greek King of Egypt Ptolemy II Philadelphus in the 3rd century BCE to translate the Torah (or Pentateuch) from Biblical Hebrew into Greek for inclusion in the Library of Alexandria.[5]

    As narrated by Philo of Alexandria, 72 Jewish translators were enlisted to complete the translation while kept in separate chambers. They all produced identical versions of the text in seventy-two days. This story underlines the fact that some Jews in antiquity wished to present the translation as authoritative.[5] A version of this legend is found in the Tractate Megillah of the Babylonian Talmud (pages 9a-9b), which identifies fifteen specific unusual translations made by the scholars. Only two of these translations are found in the extant LXX.
    Septuagint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    To help you out Hannah, i believe the "LXX" is also called the Septuagint:
    Septuagint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Exactly correct. The LXX is the Septuagint. It is the ancient Greek translation of the Jewish Bible. It originated circa 300 BC with the translation of the Torah into Koine Greek and was commissioned by Ptolemy II. The LXX refers to the 70 (some accounts say 72) Jewish scholars how performed the translating in Alexandria.

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Zondervan and Satan Share Parents. Does it seem odd to anyone that the world's largest Bible publisher is owned by the same company, HarperCollins, that publishes The Satanic Bible? Is it an understatement to say that this is a massive conflict of interests? Of course not for HarperCollins. It's great for the bottom-line. Play both sides.

    One thing I love about the KJV is that it's not owned by any human. Only the notes are copywrited.

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    Which version of Roman Numerals?

    I don't have a preferable version of any of my Bibles. I got them either as a present or I picked them up for myself in a Christian Bookstore so whatever version they happen to have had at the time.

    I have no version preference.
    As others have stated, I was referring to the Septuagint that you earlier referred to. Sorry for the confusion. :(

    I love the LXX (Septuagint)! Especialy used alongside of the DSS (Dead Sea Scrolls). I know many have issues with it. But many of the quotes in the NT and all of the ones in Hebrews come from the LXX translation. The early church used it greatly in outreach especially throughout the western diaspora and elsewhere toward the East in many places. Since Greek had become the standard language in most of the known world, due mainly to the conquests of Alexander the Great, many of the Jewish people that were exiled and estranged desired to not lose touch with their heritage, thus the LXX allowed them this luxury.

    Do not just take my word for it:

    "We may now address ourselves to this further question; and it may at once be said that every part of the N. T. affords evidence of a knowledge of the LXX., and that a great majority of the passages cited from the O. T. are in general agreement with the Greek version. It is calculated by one writer on the subject that, while the N. T. differs from the Massoretic text in 212 citations, it departs from the LXX. in 185 [817] ; and by another that "not more than fifty" of the citations "materially differ from the LXX. [818] " On either estimate the LXX. is the principal source from which the writers of the N. T. derived their O. T. quotations."

    Taken from
    Quotations from the Lxx. In the New Testament.


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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    A slice at a time, right under our noses......

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
    A slice at a time, right under our noses......
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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Hannah -

    Might this link help? Septuagint
    Consider the words of Omar M. Ahmad, founder of CAIR: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant." ... "The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America , and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
    A slice at a time, right under our noses......
    I'm confused on what you're saying in that sentence.
    rev. 22 20-21
    "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. "

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    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

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    People I read a Serbian Orthodox Bible, not written in English we are not Italian or Latin based language and do not use Roman Numerals. Which is why I am doing this .

    Our language is Cyrillic and comes from the Greek alphabet and our Bible came from the Greeks as well.

    For many centuries we did not have a written language. We did come to Christ in the early days of the First Church through Word of Mouth teaching. For many centuries it was a tradition that men who were learned in the Bible would go from village to village where people were often illiterate and they would verbally teach the villagers about Jesus and the Bible. Some would read out the scriptures, some would give sermons and others would testify as to what God did for them or give the testimonies of other people known by the villagers.

    It wasn't until after World War 2 (WW2) that my parents country ended up with education available throughout their nation. Many of my parent age only learned to basically read and write as adults after WW2. So many couldn't read their own Bible for themselves. Only in the past 60 years with the increase in literacy do we see updated versions of the Bible and a version provided by the Bible Society.

    Of course the Old Tradition of men going from Village to Village teaching from the Bible ceased not because of literacy but communism that came with World War 2.

    God has had to be faithful to my parent's countrymen all the time they were without literacy to ensure His message reached those who did not have the skill to read a Bible or did not have the money to buy one.

    We take for granted that people have had a Bible who lived long before us and we also take for granted they were literate enough to read one.

    That is why Bible version arguments really make me laugh. To start off with where was the King James Bible all those years but in the land of England and we know many in England couldn't read back then either, so the influence of the written Word of God and it's accuracy was really a problem for a very small number of people living in England. What about the rest of the World? I come from beyond the sphere of England who only reigned for a short while over many nations overseas. English is not my first language even though I was born in Australia.

    So God was only in England giving an accurate version of His Word to some literate nobles. What was the rest of the world doing while God was only concerning Himself with this King James Bible? If you think about it in that way you would understand how ludicrous the argument for a "only the King James version is the perfect Word of God". God has not forsaken every other country that is non-English speaking and illiterate to the max to give one lot of people in this world an accurate Bible.

    While the King James grew out of the Latin Vulgate and transformed itself from one form of English to another over the centuries, elsewhere God was ensuring people of the world heard His gospel message wether by Oration or through some written means.

    I learned to read in Serbian(as a child) because my parents insisted we retained their language and culture. My skills to read a Serbian Bible in Old Slavonic (in my early days as a Christian) were not good enough. I took Russian at University as a general studies subject to increase my ability to read in the Slavic language as Russian was closer to the Slavonic(used in my parents Bible) than modern day Serbian. I did this so I could read the Serbian Bible to my grandparents and several aunties who were all illiterate or did not know enough English. I have used the Serbian Bible(found a couple of more modern versions over the years) until recently as these family members have all passed away now. It has been a very useful skill to have as I have witnessed to my family through God's Word and given them a gospel from a source they would believe. BTW these family members have given their hearts to Jesus and they have all repented with me and received Christ (only God knows the actual heart of each person but I know they did so willingly and sincerely).

    I can't find my most recent version but the Serbian Bible I have at the moment on my desk (Septugint based translation) simply states it was published in 1974. I'm sure some one else in the family has the more modern version.

    So yes back to my original point, Roman Numerals are part of English because you have a Latin based language. We don't use them and so we only use dates and version numbers as standard digits (you know 0,1,2, 3 etc). So to say you use a LXX means nothing to me as I do not have an English version of the Septuagint.

    I am fortunate having a recent Southern European background that it gives me a perspective beyond just the English background which influenced the education of Australians here and other colonies of England. So I see things differently than those who only have English as their heritage and language. My view of the world & it's history comes from a couple of angles not just one.

    So people you have to realise that not all of us are English only. Some of us come from beyond the sphere of an English Heritage and we do from time to time have a "what are you talking" about moment. I still think in Serbian first. My hubby is from a mixed English background and I on occassion use either a Serbian phrase or sentence with him. When I see he is looking at me like I realise I've done it again and repeat in English.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    Hannah -

    Might this link help? Septuagint
    Glenn I am not ignorant of what is a Septuagint. My version is not in English but Serbian.

    I mentioned I am Eastern Orthodox!

    Serbian is not a Latin Based language like English we don't use Roman Numerals for dates or version.

    Serbian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the ignorance is not mine!

    I'm not English nor am I American but I know much about your culture and your history and your politics. However I know that as a Serbian/Australian that many people have little or no knowledge of my culture or language or religion or other significant knowledge of either country that is my background.

    And it really annoys me though when people do this to me because of their ignorance of my background.

    What I am saying is you jumped to the conclusion I am ignorant!

    Even educated in a English speaking country my experience of English things is limited as I spend my family time mainly within a Serbian Speaking social circle and culture. Don't know how to bake a Pavlova but I do a mean Ghoulash.

    So if I don't use an English printed Septuigant but a Serbian one and have no idea you refer to various English printed versions by these Roman Numerals it is not due to my being DUMB but I haven't come across it and I really hate it when people jump on my not knowing something that is outside my sphere of experience and smuggly treat me as ignorant!

    Excuse me for not having come across an English Abbreviated term for the Septuagint before. Never bought an English version! Because some of us are of non-English backgrounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    Glenn I am not ignorant of what is a Septuagint. My version is not in English but Serbian.

    I mentioned I am Eastern Orthodox!

    Serbian is not a Latin Based language like English we don't use Roman Numerals for dates or version.

    Serbian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the ignorance is not mine!

    I'm not English nor am I American but I know much about your culture and your history and your politics. However I know that as a Serbian/Australian that many people have little or no knowledge of my culture or language or religion or other significant knowledge of either country that is my background.

    And it really annoys me though when people do this to me because of their ignorance of my background.

    What I am saying is you jumped to the conclusion I am ignorant!

    Even educated in a English speaking country my experience of English things is limited as I spend my family time mainly within a Serbian Speaking social circle and culture. Don't know how to bake a Pavlova but I do a mean Ghoulash.

    So if I don't use an English printed Septuigant but a Serbian one and have no idea you refer to various English printed versions by these Roman Numerals it is not due to my being DUMB but I haven't come across it and I really hate it when people jump on my not knowing something that is outside my sphere of experience and smuggly treat me as ignorant!

    Excuse me for not having come across an English Abbreviated term for the Septuagint before. Never bought an English version! Because some of us are of non-English backgrounds.

    My apologies Hannah; I thought the note about 70 translators from wiki might have helped with the "LXX" designation.

    I am done with this topic; I have enough to deal with right now.

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    Hannah -

    Might this link help? Septuagint
    love that link bro.!!!!!!
    In Christ,

    Daniel 12:3 (New King James Version)

    Those who are wise shall shine
    Like the brightness of the firmament,
    And those who turn many to righteousness
    Like the stars forever and ever.
    www.truthinspires.com

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    Glenn I am not ignorant of what is a Septuagint. My version is not in English but Serbian.

    I mentioned I am Eastern Orthodox!

    Serbian is not a Latin Based language like English we don't use Roman Numerals for dates or version.

    Serbian language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So the ignorance is not mine!

    I'm not English nor am I American but I know much about your culture and your history and your politics. However I know that as a Serbian/Australian that many people have little or no knowledge of my culture or language or religion or other significant knowledge of either country that is my background.

    And it really annoys me though when people do this to me because of their ignorance of my background.

    What I am saying is you jumped to the conclusion I am ignorant!

    Even educated in a English speaking country my experience of English things is limited as I spend my family time mainly within a Serbian Speaking social circle and culture. Don't know how to bake a Pavlova but I do a mean Ghoulash.

    So if I don't use an English printed Septuigant but a Serbian one and have no idea you refer to various English printed versions by these Roman Numerals it is not due to my being DUMB but I haven't come across it and I really hate it when people jump on my not knowing something that is outside my sphere of experience and smuggly treat me as ignorant!

    Excuse me for not having come across an English Abbreviated term for the Septuagint before. Never bought an English version! Because some of us are of non-English backgrounds.
    Hello Hannah! Thanks for all the very interesting background history! Wow! Very enlightening. In defense of the other postings, I do not think anyone was trying to insult your intelligence. We know how your faith in God is strong as an oak and your love for the truth and its effects upon the saints goes before you. I run into to English speaking people all the time and they have no clue what the LXX is. I referred to it as such, because of so many commentators who use it as an abbreviation based on the history concerning how it came into being. On another note, I have the same copy of the Septuagint as you I believe. The Orthodox Study Bible. What is funny is the New Testament is the New King James!

    The link Glenn posted tells a lot about how it came into being and it also sheds some important light on why I use it alongside of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The fact that they have found copies from the 2nd to 3rd century B.C. that confirm the Hebrew Bible in almost all places is a blessing to believers and a slap in the face to those who have tried to destroy the Scriptures, especially prophecy. Sister, you have been a blessing in many ways on the forum. We may not always see eye to eye with everyone who posts but at least it gives us a chance to dig into the Word a little deeper than we may have been accustomed to.

    God Bless you! And God bless all who have posted and have a deep desire for the preservation of truth through staying as close to the truth as possible.
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    In Christ,

    Daniel 12:3 (New King James Version)

    Those who are wise shall shine
    Like the brightness of the firmament,
    And those who turn many to righteousness
    Like the stars forever and ever.
    www.truthinspires.com

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    People I read a Serbian Orthodox Bible, not written in English we are not Italian or Latin based language and do not use Roman Numerals. Which is why I am doing this .

    Our language is Cyrillic and comes from the Greek alphabet and our Bible came from the Greeks as well.

    For many centuries we did not have a written language. We did come to Christ in the early days of the First Church through Word of Mouth teaching. For many centuries it was a tradition that men who were learned in the Bible would go from village to village where people were often illiterate and they would verbally teach the villagers about Jesus and the Bible. Some would read out the scriptures, some would give sermons and others would testify as to what God did for them or give the testimonies of other people known by the villagers.

    It wasn't until after World War 2 (WW2) that my parents country ended up with education available throughout their nation. Many of my parent age only learned to basically read and write as adults after WW2. So many couldn't read their own Bible for themselves. Only in the past 60 years with the increase in literacy do we see updated versions of the Bible and a version provided by the Bible Society.

    Of course the Old Tradition of men going from Village to Village teaching from the Bible ceased not because of literacy but communism that came with World War 2.

    God has had to be faithful to my parent's countrymen all the time they were without literacy to ensure His message reached those who did not have the skill to read a Bible or did not have the money to buy one.

    We take for granted that people have had a Bible who lived long before us and we also take for granted they were literate enough to read one.

    That is why Bible version arguments really make me laugh. To start off with where was the King James Bible all those years but in the land of England and we know many in England couldn't read back then either, so the influence of the written Word of God and it's accuracy was really a problem for a very small number of people living in England. What about the rest of the World? I come from beyond the sphere of England who only reigned for a short while over many nations overseas. English is not my first language even though I was born in Australia.

    So God was only in England giving an accurate version of His Word to some literate nobles. What was the rest of the world doing while God was only concerning Himself with this King James Bible? If you think about it in that way you would understand how ludicrous the argument for a "only the King James version is the perfect Word of God". God has not forsaken every other country that is non-English speaking and illiterate to the max to give one lot of people in this world an accurate Bible.

    While the King James grew out of the Latin Vulgate and transformed itself from one form of English to another over the centuries, elsewhere God was ensuring people of the world heard His gospel message wether by Oration or through some written means.

    I learned to read in Serbian(as a child) because my parents insisted we retained their language and culture. My skills to read a Serbian Bible in Old Slavonic (in my early days as a Christian) were not good enough. I took Russian at University as a general studies subject to increase my ability to read in the Slavic language as Russian was closer to the Slavonic(used in my parents Bible) than modern day Serbian. I did this so I could read the Serbian Bible to my grandparents and several aunties who were all illiterate or did not know enough English. I have used the Serbian Bible(found a couple of more modern versions over the years) until recently as these family members have all passed away now. It has been a very useful skill to have as I have witnessed to my family through God's Word and given them a gospel from a source they would believe. BTW these family members have given their hearts to Jesus and they have all repented with me and received Christ (only God knows the actual heart of each person but I know they did so willingly and sincerely).

    I can't find my most recent version but the Serbian Bible I have at the moment on my desk (Septugint based translation) simply states it was published in 1974. I'm sure some one else in the family has the more modern version.

    So yes back to my original point, Roman Numerals are part of English because you have a Latin based language. We don't use them and so we only use dates and version numbers as standard digits (you know 0,1,2, 3 etc). So to say you use a LXX means nothing to me as I do not have an English version of the Septuagint.

    I am fortunate having a recent Southern European background that it gives me a perspective beyond just the English background which influenced the education of Australians here and other colonies of England. So I see things differently than those who only have English as their heritage and language. My view of the world & it's history comes from a couple of angles not just one.

    So people you have to realise that not all of us are English only. Some of us come from beyond the sphere of an English Heritage and we do from time to time have a "what are you talking" about moment. I still think in Serbian first. My hubby is from a mixed English background and I on occassion use either a Serbian phrase or sentence with him. When I see he is looking at me like I realise I've done it again and repeat in English.
    Thank you Hannah for this wonderful reminder of just how recent and limited this blessing of the written word in the hands of the masses really is. People have been twisting the scriptures since the beginning. (2 Peter 3:16) They all came to nothing and I have complete faith that those who try the same in our time will meet the same end.

  16. #56
    Everlasting Life is offline Through Faith in Jesus

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    Yes, Hannah...very, very interesting background and history provided. Thank you for sharing. Amazing God's faithfulness was shown in providing his word through people, God sure can work beyond the written word, languages and countries...Acts is quite the testament to that i.e. the apostles speaking in other languages they had never previously studied.

    I've noticed your posts and how well you seem to know God's word and really respect what you have to say...please know that I'm just sharing my thoughts and not trying to be disrespectful here.

    I certainly agree that there are many great translations of the bible, and certain aspects of the subject can be unnecessarily divisive. I am also concerned about a couple bibles that when I read them....I'm led to completely different conclusions than other bibles. It concerns me that the meaning, intended by God, would be twisted or lost. I think this can also be an issue with people sharing the gospel too (and I'm not saying that's what's happened in your case...sounds like God sent faithful witnesses).

    Whether it's the written word or the spoken word, I think the Apostle Paul put the subject in perspective when He wrote to the Galatians warning them about twisting the truth:

    I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God, who called you to himself through the loving mercy of Christ. You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ.
    Gal 1:6-7


    Paul later warns about those who would preach a different kind of Good News (we obviously see that today).

    Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you. I say again what we have said before: If anyone preaches any other Good News than the one you welcomed, let that person be cursed.
    Galations 1:8-9


    There was only the spoken word of God at that time, as you well know (no New Testament) and at that juncture Paul was warning about twisting of the spoken Gospel.

    The point I'm trying to respectfully make is that if the Gospel could be twisted and off in preaching format, wouldn't it also be prudent to watch out for twisting of Gospel in written format?

    Out of curiousity I decided to look up the word pervert (used in the kj translation of Galations) and here's what I get: To interpret incorrectly
    Also the word twist (used in the NLT) : To alter or distort the intended meaning of

    I feel that we are in a time where we really need to have discernment with what we are reading. The fact that there are bibles made for those living a gay lifestyle is testament to that.

    These are just my thoughts, and perhaps I need to grow and mature in this area. On another note I have enjoyed reading another sister in Christ's thoughts here on this board. How wonderful it is to come to a place where so many people share their love for the Lord. Many blessings to you.

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    Default Re: The Lying Paraphrased Bibles

    Interesting, "I Believe!!!" that you yourself quote from the NLT translation in backing up what you say. I rather suspected you were going to use the KJV. (Not that there would be anything wrong with that—it is a very good translation. My point, of course, is that it really does not matter. ALL good translations are exactly as has been said by many people above: good translations.

    I think this is a perfect place to close this thread. I was worried somewhat at a couple of places in the thread that we might veer off into personal attacks or hard feelings but, to your credit, none of you fell for those old tricks of Satan. Having said that, I think that all that is necessary at this time has been said. And to avoid sliding off into Satan's bog I am closing this thread ... for a bit, at least. If somebody has something significant that they believe absolutely needs to be posted in this thread, please PM me.

    God bless.

    Matt
    -------"You are not your own; you are bought with a price." —1 Corinthians 6:19b-20a

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