Tribulation Salvation

[Jillian]

I am thoroughly confused on salvation in the Tribulation. I just heard that those saved during the 7 year Tribulation , can lose salvation as , the Day of grace is over when the Rapture took place. They are now under the law again. I have never heard this before and it has completely shaken me up.

I have always believed that those saved during the Trib were saved eternally just as those saved before the Rapture. Now the ones that believe one can lose salvation gained during the Trib , believe in eternal security for the Church age or salvation before the Rapture. They believe in once saved always saved up until the Church is removed. After that , the ones saved are under the law not Grace. Therefore can lose salvation. I just can't believe this.

Please , can some of you with knowledge and wisdom please enlighten me here? I am totally floored with this belief. I never heard it before and it really shook me up.

Thanks in advance.

[tjplaw]

Maybe this will help...

The Great Soul Harvest Will Begin During the Tribulation

The Great Soul Harvest of the Tribulation - "After this I looked and there before me was a great multiple that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands." Rev 7 v.9 indicated that during the first part of Tribulation the greatest soul harvest in all history will take place. A Great Multitude Which no Man Could Number

Tim LaHaye believes that more people will accept Christ during the early months of the Tribulation, before the Antichrist (Beast) really has a chance to consolidate his one world government and set up his one world religion of self worship than have been converted in the nearly 2000 years of the Church age. Power Was Given Unto the Beast - Revelation 13 v.3-4

Some interpreters have a hard time believing that the Tribulation could usher in such an enormous soul harvest, but more men and women will be won to Christ during that period than at any time in history. That God could pour out His Spirit in a flood of conversions, even in an Old Testament setting, was proved in Jonah's day when the Lord spared the city of Nineveh after the prophet Jonah preached to its people, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!" (Jonah 3 v.4)

The Bible says the inhabitants of that wicked Assyrian city heard Jonah and "believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them." (v.5) And how did God respond to such earnest repentance? "That God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it" (v.10).

And do not forget that it was another Old Testament prophet, Joel, who predicted a worldwide soul harvest for the time of the end: And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My spirit in those days. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Joel 2 v.28-32)

A partial fulfillment of this prophecy took place on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2 v.16-21), but its full manifestation awaits the day of these 144,000 Jewish witnesses of Revelation 7. 144,000 Their preaching of the everlasting gospel will be so clear and so powerful that it will result in the conversions of "a great multitude which no one could number" from every nation on the face of the earth!

In other words, there is going to be an enormous divide at the time of the end between the many who shall become "purified, made white, and refined" and the "wicked." Of course, the only way to become purified and made white is by the "blood of the Lamb." The wicked will stubbornly reject the Savior and continue in their wickedness.

This passage will find its complete fulfillment in the Tribulation when the gospel will be preached around the world by the 144,000 witnesses and the angel with the everlasting gospel. Angel with the Everlasting Gospel Revelation 14 v.6 Even now it accurately describes our world. Sad to say, it is exactly the condition we see in the present day. Many are coming to Christ all over the world and turning from their wickedness, while many others reject the Savior and seem bent on continuing and even intensifying their wickedness. Can the end be far off?

The Goal is Close - Jesus predicted in Mat. 24 v.14 that the gospel would be preached throughout the world during the Tribulation, yet already we are coming close to evangelizing all the world by the end of this decade! (1990's) Many short wave radio ministries announced a plan to take the gospel via short wave radio to the entire world! Wycliffe Bible Translators expects to have the New Testament soon translated and printed in hundreds of additional languages throughout the world.

The Tribulation Will See a Great Soul Harvest - According to Joel 2 v.28-32, the Holy Spirit will be alive and well on planet Earth during the Tribulation, convicting all who are open to God with the gospel truth that Jesus died for their sins according to the scriptures, that He rose again from the dead, and that they can be saved through faith in Him. The key then will be exactly what it is today and always has been - repentance and faith.

God is Still in Control - Despite the numbers of Saints who will lose their lives in the Tribulation, God is still very much in control throughout the whole period. Note the careful language both Daniel and John use to describe the Antichrist's power over the people of God: "The saints shall be given into his hand" (Dan 7, v.25) and John: "it was granted to him to make war with the saints" Make War with the Saints - Revelation 13 v.7

Both of these texts stress that the Antichrist does nothing without the permission of God. The Beast does not tear the saints from God's grasp, nor does he somehow out maneuver the Lord. The Tribulation saints are in the same position as was the Lord Jesus when he stood before the Roman governor Pilate. The arrogant Pilate demanded of a silent Jesus, "Do you refuse to speak to me? Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?" To which Jesus replied authoritatively, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above". (John 19 v.10-11)

That is exactly the situation of these Tribulation saints. The Antichrist would have no power over them unless it had been given to him from above. In fact, God's control of His people's lives extends to the exact number of believers who will be martyred. That is what Rev. 6 v.11 has in mind when it reports that the martyred saints will be told in heaven to "rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed." That is total control!

The Death of a Believer is Blessed - "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord," Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord - Revelation 14 v.13 The world will believe these martyrs are ignorant, foolish, and idiotic. Some may even pity them. But God does not pity them. He blesses them! He will feel toward them just as He has felt all along toward all His people: "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints" (Psalm 116. v.15) And this blessing of God comes with more than well wishes.

The apostle John says these martyrs will be granted "rest" and that their works will "follow them", that is, they will be richly rewarded for their perseverance even to death.

Note: As you can see people cannot lose their salvation, even during this horrible time, otherwise there would be no soul harvest.
Also" Heb. 6 v.4-6: "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Article from discoverrevelation.com

[Jillian]

Thanks for your response , but what has unsettled me is that there are people teaching that all those saved during this great soul harvest can lose that salvation , as they will be under law again and not under grace. That is what I want cleared up. Can those saved during this Great Trib , lose their salvation. I personally think not.

[Robert]

Thanks for your response , but what has unsettled me is that there are people teaching that all those saved during this great soul harvest can lose that salvation , as they will be under law again and not under grace. That is what I want cleared up. Can those saved during this Great Trib , lose their salvation. I personally think not.

Jillian,

If I may ask: do you have family members or someone you care about who is unsaved?

[Sean Osborne]

Salvation during Daniel's 70th Week (7-year Tribulation) is defined by two words: Tribulation Saints. They will be, according to Revelation, an innumerable group representing every nation and tongue.

[Jillian]

Yes Sean , that is so true. But my question remains. Can these saints lose their salvation in the Trib. That is my question.

[Kenny64]

Yes Sean , that is so true. But my question remains. Can these saints lose their salvation in the Trib. That is my question.

I've was taught one cannot lose their salvation. JMHO..

Where in scripture is there an example of a true believer losing his salvation and then being saved again?

There is not a single case of this type anywhere in the Bible. Some have suggested the case of the immoral man in 1 Corinthians ch. 5. However, scripture never indicates he lost his salvation. Once he was disciplined he truly repented, thus proving his genuineness — after which he was received back into the local church at Corinth (2 Cor 2:6-8).

Here now is a list of scriptures to prove the glorious truth of scripture — ‘once in Christ in Christ forever’.

John 5:24: ‘‘Verily, Verily, I say unto you, he that hears My word, and believes on Him who sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but has passed from death unto life.’’ This ‘passage’ is a one way street and carries no threat of reversal.

John 10:27-28: ‘‘My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and [firstly] they shall never perish, [secondly] neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.’’ Some make an attempt to circumvent the clarity of eternal security as taught in this verse by saying that while no other man is able, a Christian can pluck himself out of the Father’s hand! Actually, the word ‘man’ is an italicised supplied word. The verse is simply teaching the no foe or force of any kind can ever sever the true believer from Christ.

Eph 4:30: ‘‘And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.’’ The seal of ownership upon every believer is guaranteed to continue right through to the resurrection and beyond.

Phil 1:6: ‘‘Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.’’ God has promised to see Christians through to the day of Christ’s return.

II Tim 1:12: ‘‘I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.’’ If salvation depended on individuals, each one would have perished long ago. Thank God He is able to keep without losing even one weak believer.

For further reading see also Heb 5:9, 10:14, 1 Peter 1:3-5, 1 John 5:11-13. The scriptural motivation for Christian service should not be fear of losing one’s salvation but rather love to Christ. How tragic that some attend church and read their Bibles driven by the fear that if they do not fulfil these duties they will be cast out. May the Lord graciously reveal the truth of eternal security and the believer’s new position in Christ, that bond-service to Him may become the most blessed freedom of all.

Can Christians Lose Their Salvation?

Acts 17:30-31
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

[PraisingHimAlways]

Wanted to add a scripture in here:

Hebrews 7:25

Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

That says it all for me....

[Truth Files]

Response to the OP:

Here are some things to consider regarding any humans who become believers during the coming tribulation period:

I believe that the great multitude and the 24 elders are the pre-tribulation church [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17]

The 24 tell of others who are with them and the description given in 5:1-10 agrees with the same in 7:9-17, and they refer to themselves and others as “us” [KJV]

In addition, the pre-tribulation church must contain many more that just 24 elders [a number that no man can count]

I would also suggest that “coming out” of the tribulation can be translated as "out from", “away from” and a good concordance will verify the Greek “ek” is actually translated more times as “away from” [either way, if one is “out” of something, one is not in it] [Example: the “ek” of Revelation 3:10 .... "I will keep the from"]

At the same time Revelation 18:4 has the Lord calling His people “out” of the “great city” part of Mystery Babylon the Great

This destruction will occur early in the tribulation period [Revelation 8:7-12; 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21] and it will have devastating worldwide effects; I believe that His calling in Revelation 18:4 is His “harpazo” action to immortalize those living of His church [including those asleep] before the judgments of the tribulation begin so that these will not be subjected to the destruction and worldwide upheaval

The Lord’s way of salvation is always the same and will be during the tribulation period; this never changes

And the idea that tribulation believers will be under the law is bogus; not true [no one is saved by the law]

Who ever has suggested this to you is off course; I have heard this ruse before [there is no scriptural support for it]

The conditions of the tribulation period will be extreme, and few of humanity will get through it

There will be protection for the 144000 Israelites, those believing Israelites located in Israel who will flee the invasion of Satan’s beast and his followers, and for the Lord’s two prophets [Revelation 7:1-9; 14:1-7; Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14; 11:3-6]

Those who turn and become believers other than these will either be martyred for their faith [Revelation 6: 9-11; 14:13; 15:2-3], or they will survive and will be gathered as mortals by the Lord just after the tribulation period [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

There is a definite contrast given between those martyrs under the alter and the immortal pre-tribulation great multitude who are around the throne before the tribulation begins [those under the alter are the tribulation martyrs who will have to wait until the end of the tribulation period for their immortal bodies [Revelation 15:2-3; 20:4 [those beheaded]]

And, any berliever can walk away from their salvation today, or during the tribulation period; not likely, but possible [Matthew 24:4-5; 2Peter 2; 3; 2Timothy 3; 4]

The believer must stay the course and not fall into deception, or rejection [rebellion]

It will be a very difficult and confusing time for the tribulation believer, but none will be subjected to the law; it is the unbeliever who will be judged by the law [Revelation 20:11-15]

[Jillian]

I really appreciate all your responses. I too believe that once a person is saved , he is sealed forever by the Holy Spirit and can never lose his salvation.

But I was talking about only those persons who got saved after the Rapture had taken place. Those persons who got saved in the 7 year tribulation. Can these persons lose salvation.

I ask this question because of some who are teaching that during the Tribulation one is no longer under Grace , but are under law. Therefore , they say that they can lose salvation. This is what has totally shaken my being. I am abhorred by the idea of the Tribulation people can lose their salvation.

So , can any one simply tell me Yes , they can or no , they cannot . I am talking about the Tribulation only. No other time.

[readytogo]

I'm going to try to answer your question again. (Last time, i accidentally closed my tab before posting the response. )

In answer to your question, I believe that scripture teaches that during the tribulation people will be able to lose their salvation. During the present church age, true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit from the time of salvation to insure the promises of Christ (no one will snatch them out of My hand). We are truly blessed. However, when the "restrainer is removed", the church will go with Him. The Holy Spirit will then revert to the role that He had in the Old Testament.

And people actually were saved during the Old Testament. Take David, for example. God called David "a man after My own heart". Did this mean that David didn't sin? Of course not! But when David sinned (or when it was pointed out to him), what did he do? He confessed and repented and offered sacrifices for his sins. His relationship with God was restored. David's salvation was not guaranteed, but there's no doubt in my mind that even being an adulterer and a murderer in his lifetime, he is nevertheless saved.

Although people like to attach this parable to the church, this is actually a picture of tribulation believers.

Matthew 25:1-13

1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

You see, when they set up their watch, they all had oil (the Holy Spirit) with them. However, 5 of the virgins were not vigilant and ran out of oil. So, when the bridegroom arrived for the marriage supper, they were not ready and he did not know them. (They had not been confessing, repenting, and probably hadn't been helping the bridegroom's brothers--the Jews.) They "lost" their salvation because they weren't serious or sincere about it.

I was trying to see why you were so upset about people then losing their salvation. I think that I see now. If they lose their salvation, it doesn't mean that they can't gain it back! Just look at David. He fell out of "grace" with the Lord many times, but he knew what to do to get back because he sincerely loved the Lord.

P.S. It's not God's will that any should be lost. If someone believes and then sin, He's not going to write them off forever! He will give them a chance to repent. The only sin that I can find in the Bible for the tribulation that would guarantee permanent loss of salvation is taking the mark of the beast--this would mean that they have definitely known what they were doing and worshiped the beast to fill their own needs.

[Jillian]

Thank you so much readytogo. This is exactly what was being taught that I was talking about. i have just never hear this teaching before and it does bother me. Revelation calls them Tribulation saints and I just cannot see them losing salvation. But yes , you did answer my question and I see that this is not another heretical teaching , but one in which people do differ.

Thanks again.

[Truth Files]

The Lord will not withdraw His offer of salvation during the tribulation period and those that turn and believe during the period will be saved just like we are today

Those who end up in the tribulation will find that it was not the best choice to make, but their salvation will still be possible

Better to be ready now and to be called home by the Lord before His scheduled hour [time] of trial .... he has given the warning to all and especially those who think they are saved and are not [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19] .... it is difficult to convince one who is lukewarm

The idea that His grace will be of no effect during the tribulation period is a speculation taught by those who battle against post-tribulation/a-millennial false teaching .... the Lord's pre-tribuation "rapture" is supported by all related scripture hands down and there is no need to add extra-biblical fluff .... if this is done, the post-tribbers and a-mills will catch you at it

It is true that His holy spirit resides in the believer, but the presence of the same is not confined to the body of Christ ..... His spirit has a universal presence continuously and will be operative during the tribulation period [Revelation 5:6 .... His spirit is 7 fold].... the removal of today's church will not negate the presence of his holy spirit during the coming tribulation period

The evidence of salvation during the tribulation period:

[Revelation 6:2; 6:9-11; 7:1-8; 13:7; 14:1-7; 14:13; 15:2-3; 20:4 [those beheaded]]

There is nothing in scripture that indicates the Lord's withdrawal of His grace, His holy spirit, or His willingness to save those who turn to Him during the tribulation period, and certainly not anything telling that tribulation saints must be saved by the law

[Jillian]

Truth Flies , I agree. I never thought one could lose their salvation at any time ever. That is why I was so taken when I heard that Tribulation believers could lose salvation. And it is as Sean said the 7 year tribulation is defined by two words and that is Tribulation Saints. And in my understanding , saints cannot lose their salvation..

[Jillian]

Thank you Robert and Kenny64. I agree with what you said. The Trib Saints cannot lose salvation

I really feel so much better about this. I am glad to know that there are others who don't believe that Tribulation saints can lose salvation. I was so afraid that I had been completely wrong in my belief and was feeling pretty upset. I wanted to know what others thought about this Topic.

Thank you all so very much. You all have been so helpful. I appreciate it much.

[Elijah's Mantle]

Ive always believed deeply that God has a purpose for tribulations
many will have to learn obedience through suffering
Just as Jesus had to go through the Garden of Gethsemane
Its often hard for folks to find hope through suffering
but they either choose to have there own way
or they choose to go Gods.
Jesus faced the depths of despair
in the Garden yet he obeyed God's will
people in the tribulations will have the opportunity
after all how will one know for certain if they can follow through
to the end and still be obedient even through suffering
tribulations will still turn many to salvation
I believe

[Jillian]

Thank you. that is so true.

[Potter's Clay]

Jillian
Here is an article written by Jack Kelley that you may find helpful.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins | GraceThruFaith

I have found this website to be a great source of information and bible teaching (as well as the knowledgable brothers and sisters here at RF).

Ready to go used a perfect example of the type of relationship that existed during old testament times prior to Jesus and the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. In psalm 51:10-11 David prayed,
"Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from your presence, and do not take your Holy Spirit from me".


Here is a paragraph from the article link above.

During the Church Age the Holy Spirit is sealed within believers as a guarantee of our inheritance. But no such guarantee is mentioned for Tribulation believers. In fact Rev. 16:15 specifically warns them to stay awake and maintain their righteousness, symbolized by keeping their clothes with them. (Clothing is often used to represent righteousness, as in Isaiah 61:10). Rev. 16:15 implies that Tribulation believers are responsible for remaining steadfast in their faith to avoid losing their salvation. Matt. 25:8 agrees, telling us that all 10 virgins had oil in their lamps at the beginning, but the five foolish ones didn’t have enough to carry them through.

Yes it will be possible to be saved during the tribulation, but I don't want to be here to prove that.

2 Corinthians 6:2

[Jillian]

Thank you for jack Kelly's website. Yes there are those that believe like Jack Kelly does. Which I have just heard about and the reason for my Thread of Tribulation Salvation. Never heard of it before recently ,and don't believe this for a minute. This teaching is what had upset me so. But since , I have learned that there are many , like myself , who do not believe that one can lose their salvation in any age and also many Bible teachers who don't believe this way either. Not only does God save , but He keeps those he saves. Revelation calls them Tribulation Saints and I just don't see Saints losing salvation.