How do you fellows deal with Matthew 16 and Mark 13?

[mattfivefour]

I was late into the conversation, but my instant thought in answer to the OP, was not the Revelation to the Beloved Disciple a literal answer.

Paul & Katie expressed my thought exactly, but since I've not pondered the question before, is there a consensus in merit of the answer?

I must amend my post! Very good Paul&Katie. There are THREE events that could possibly fit what Jesus meant; one we have dispensed with on closer examination as not being likely; and now TWO remain— the founding of the Church at Pentecost and the Revelation of Jesus Christ to and through John. Perhaps both are correct. I tend to think Pentecost matches the Greek wording better ("some" - indefinite plural pronoun, not singular) but I like both!

[Sean Osborne]

Please take the words of Jesus literally, was not John alive when he saw the second coming and rapture during the dictation of the book of revelation from Jesus himself??? Jesus said one would be alive to see the event not to necessarily experience it! BIG difference.

Magnificent response! Paul&Katie, yours is an absolutely magnificent and Inspired response!!!

The Greek word "tis" (as in "some" standing here) is LITERALLY and correctly translated as meaning "a certain one." And the Greek word "eidō", to see, carries the literal meaning of perceiving by ANY OF THE SENSES (which includes Divine Revelation).

Therefore, a literal translation of Matthew 16:28 reads: (using Young's Literal Translation of Jesus' quote)

"Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign."

The certain one of those standing there was the Apostle John, a/k/a one of those Jesus called "Boanerges" meaning "Sons of Thunder" (Mark 3:17), John the Evangelist, John the Revelator, John of Patmos, and ultimately "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw." (Revelation 1:1-2)



The things which were revealed to John circa 90-95 AD were future things. The events of the past in 70 AD fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel 9:26.

Herein lies in full exposure the Preterist's error and fall into deception.

[mattfivefour]

The certain one of those standing there was the Apostle John,

While I like Paul & Katie's idea (as I noted above), nonetheless, the Greek indefinite pronoun tis is in the plural, not the singular. It can only mean "certain ones" or "these". It cannot mean the singular "certain one". The Holy Spirit is very precise.

Also it was both John and James who bore the appellation "Boanerges"

AS I said, I absolutely love the thought expressed in paul&katie's post. And I think there is some truth to that. But we cannot ignore the express word of scripture, no matter how much we may love a concept.

Another interpretation some hold is that Christ was speaking of the second death when He spoke the words of Matthew 16:18. In other words, because He would taste of the second death for all men and certain ones of those who were listening to Him that day had (or would) express saving faith in Him, then indeed some of those listening to Him would not taste the second death and thus would see God coming in power as He forms His eternal Kingdom following the last days.

Personally, while I like this latter explanation, I still consider the founding of the church on the Day of Pentecost the most likely fulfillment of this prophecy ... though I will also admit to the very real possibility (if not probability) of both a near and a far fulfillment.

Anyway, not worth arguing over. However we view it, if it accords with scripture and glorifies God causing us to draw ever closer to Him, then Glory be to God and the Lamb forever! We indeed shall see the King when He comes in power and in glory and we shall so ever dwell with Him!

Hallelujah!

[Sean Osborne]

While I like Paul & Katie's idea (as I noted above), nonetheless, the Greek indefinite pronoun tis is in the plural, not the singular. It can only mean "certain ones" or "these". It cannot mean the singular "certain one". The Holy Spirit is very precise.

Bro mattfivefour I agree with your points here as well - there is no argument.

While I believe John was a specific individual of the "certain ones" because he recieved the Revelation of Jesus Christ while on Patmos, I also believe the sum of the "certain ones" were specifically Peter, James and John per Scripture and as explained here by David Reagan.