When the Restrainer is Removed

[Chris]

2 Thes. 2:3, Falling Away Or Departure? | GraceThruFaith

2 Thes. 2:3, Falling Away Or Departure?

Q. The other night I was listening to (a well known teacher) concerning the rapture. He brought up 2nd Thess. 2:3 where in a lot of translations it’s called the falling away or the “apostate Church! He said that the Greek word seemed to also mean “departing” which would be more evidence for the pre – tribulation rapture. I have the Geneva translation and they use “the departing” instead of “the falling away”! I’m sure that others have written to you concerning this! I do think that as the days progress with time closing in that not only is this great news but we will have more understanding concering the times (as long as it’s fitting in the scriptures).

A. One of the roots of the Greek word apostasia in 2 Thes. 2:3 is aphistemi. It can mean to withdraw, depart, or remove, in addition to falling away. Before the King James was published, departure was the accepted translation for apostasia. Another related word is apostasion. It’s the masculine form of apostasia, and is the Greek word for divorce. Since all three of these words convey the idea of a change of mind, it appears that falling away is the more appropriate translation.

As tempting as it is to use the pre-King James understanding of 2 Thes. 2:3, you don’t need it to show that Paul taught the Thessalonians a pre-trib rapture. Paul said that before the Day of the Lord can come, there has to be a falling away and the anti-Christ has to be revealed. Then in verse 7 he said that before the anti- Christ can be revealed the restrainer has to be taken out of the way (literally taken from among). This restrainer is widely accepted to be the Holy Spirit resident in the Church. If so Paul was telling them that the church will have to be gone before the anti-Christ can be revealed.

In 1 Thes. 1:10 he promised that the Lord will rescue us from the time of His wrath. In 1 Thes. 2:19 He said we will be with Jesus when He comes, and in 1 Thes. 3:13 he said we’d be in the Presence of God when the time comes for the 2nd Coming. In 1 Thes. 4:16-17 he described how the Lord will take us to be with Him, and in 1 Thes. 5:9 he repeated that we’re not appointed to suffer wrath. Since the time of wrath will have already come by the end of Rev. 6, and since the Church is in view in Heaven in Rev. 5, that puts the rapture in Rev. 4 taking us away from the time, the place and any relation to God’s Wrath.

When you read the two letters together, you can see that the second letter would have been unnecessary unless he had taught them that the rapture would precede the End Times judgments.

[Chris]

For what it is worth, Dr. Arnold Frutchenbaum teaches that the church leaves before the Tribulation period. He also teaches that there are "two" revealings of the AC, one to possibly the church or to left behind believers and the other to the Jews at the mid point of the Tribulation at the AOD. He says he is not sure if the church will see the AC and know it is him or if the newly turned believers after the rapture will be the ones to recognize him. I personally learn toward the AC rising up after the rapture. To me there would be too many folks pointing him out if the church was here as the HS would likely point us to him and tell us who he really is. JMHO.

[mikhen7]

2 Thes. 2:3, Falling Away Or Departure? | GraceThruFaith

2 Thes. 2:3, Falling Away Or Departure?

Q. The other night I was listening to (a well known teacher) concerning the rapture. He brought up 2nd Thess. 2:3 where in a lot of translations it’s called the falling away or the “apostate Church! He said that the Greek word seemed to also mean “departing” which would be more evidence for the pre – tribulation rapture. I have the Geneva translation and they use “the departing” instead of “the falling away”! I’m sure that others have written to you concerning this! I do think that as the days progress with time closing in that not only is this great news but we will have more understanding concering the times (as long as it’s fitting in the scriptures).

A. One of the roots of the Greek word apostasia in 2 Thes. 2:3 is aphistemi. It can mean to withdraw, depart, or remove, in addition to falling away. Before the King James was published, departure was the accepted translation for apostasia. Another related word is apostasion. It’s the masculine form of apostasia, and is the Greek word for divorce. Since all three of these words convey the idea of a change of mind, it appears that falling away is the more appropriate translation.

As tempting as it is to use the pre-King James understanding of 2 Thes. 2:3, you don’t need it to show that Paul taught the Thessalonians a pre-trib rapture. Paul said that before the Day of the Lord can come, there has to be a falling away and the anti-Christ has to be revealed. Then in verse 7 he said that before the anti- Christ can be revealed the restrainer has to be taken out of the way (literally taken from among). This restrainer is widely accepted to be the Holy Spirit resident in the Church. If so Paul was telling them that the church will have to be gone before the anti-Christ can be revealed.

In 1 Thes. 1:10 he promised that the Lord will rescue us from the time of His wrath. In 1 Thes. 2:19 He said we will be with Jesus when He comes, and in 1 Thes. 3:13 he said we’d be in the Presence of God when the time comes for the 2nd Coming. In 1 Thes. 4:16-17 he described how the Lord will take us to be with Him, and in 1 Thes. 5:9 he repeated that we’re not appointed to suffer wrath. Since the time of wrath will have already come by the end of Rev. 6, and since the Church is in view in Heaven in Rev. 5, that puts the rapture in Rev. 4 taking us away from the time, the place and any relation to God’s Wrath.

When you read the two letters together, you can see that the second letter would have been unnecessary unless he had taught them that the rapture would precede the End Times judgments.

Chris you are right on. Thanks for posting. That Geneva Bible translation on the "Departynge" is interesting. I did a slide show in the 80's on that. Thanks for bringing it to remembrance.

[Sean Osborne]

For what it is worth, Dr. Arnold Frutchenbaum teaches that the church leaves before the Tribulation period. He also teaches that there are "two" revealings of the AC, one to possibly the church or to left behind believers and the other to the Jews at the mid point of the Tribulation at the AOD. He says he is not sure if the church will see the AC and know it is him or if the newly turned believers after the rapture will be the ones to recognize him. I personally learn toward the AC rising up after the rapture. To me there would be too many folks pointing him out if the church was here as the HS would likely point us to him and tell us who he really is. JMHO.

Chris,

This "man of sin, son of perdition" has his identity as "the Antichrist" revealed prior to the mid-point of Daniel's 70th Week and his re-animation by Abaddon/Apollyon.

This is apparent due to the assault or assassination attempt one or more people launch against him. Given the nature of this assassination and the odds against it being successful, it will take some time for the plot to be planned and executed for the greatest opportunity and change of success.

I'm fairly well convinced it will be a well organized and heavily armed group of men (possibly military special ops professionals) who carry this "sword' against him because they do overcome the considerable security detail guarding him (Obama just took a massaive physical security detail with him to India, for example). The assassination team apparently kills him with hits to upper right quarter of his body that cause fatal damage to his head and right arm. Headshots are the calling card of a well-trained team of assassins/snipers.

Zechariah 11:15-17(NKJV)

And the LORD said to me, “Next, take for yourself the implements of a foolish shepherd. For indeed I will raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for those who are cut off, nor seek the young, nor heal those that are broken, nor feed those that still stand. But he will eat the flesh of the fat and tear their hooves in pieces.
“ Woe to the worthless shepherd,
Who leaves the flock!
A sword shall be against his arm
And against his right eye;
His arm shall completely wither,
And his right eye shall be totally blinded .”

Revelation 13:3-4

"Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”"

This man's fatal wounds will be healed but remain visible, and he will be re-animated for the indwelling of the beast destroyer Abaddon/Apollyon with the help of Satan (the dragon) himself. So he will deceive the whole world with a false resurrection, yet while retaining the wounds which caused his death, and the whole world will be witness to it (i.e. instantaneous global DishNetwork television) and then enter the Great Tribulation.

[mikhen7]

Chris,

This "man of sin, son of perdition" has his identity as "the Antichrist" revealed prior to the mid-point of Daniel's 70th Week and his re-animation by Abaddon/Apollyon.

This is apparent due to the assault or assassination attempt one or more people launch against him. Given the nature of this assassination and the odds against it being successful, it will take some time for the plot to be planned and executed for the greatest opportunity and change of success.

I'm fairly well convinced it will be a well organized and heavily armed group of men (possibly military special ops professionals) who carry this "sword' against him because they do overcome the considerable security detail guarding him (Obama just took a massaive physical security detail with him to India, for example). The assassination team apparently kills him with hits to upper right quarter of his body that cause fatal damage to his head and right arm. Headshots are the calling card of a well-trained team of assassins/snipers.

Zechariah 11:15-17(NKJV)



Revelation 13:3-4



This man's fatal wounds will be healed but remain visible, and he will be re-animated for the indwelling of the beast destroyer Abaddon/Apollyon with the help of Satan (the dragon) himself. So he will deceive the whole world with a false resurrection, yet while retaining the wounds which caused his death, and the whole world will be witness to it (i.e. instantaneous global DishNetwork television) and then enter the Great Tribulation.

Sean. if I may, I would like to interject. What Chris, you, and I and others are saying are all following the same line of reasoning. The two AC's Chris referred to by Dr. Arnold Frutchenbaum are simply the same person. There is one AC and as we have all noted he signs a covenant with Israel for 7 years, Dan. 9:24-27 spells this out. He is mortally wounded at the mid-point as you and we have written about in this post and others. He is ressurected and entered by the demon Apollyon at the mid-point of the trib. This is where the two from one came from. But we know it is the one and the same.

The instruction as I see it, and as I have always seen it, is that he will come on the scene during the church age, although we may not fully (100%) know for sure he is AC. The signs will be there, the ten toes of Daniel and the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns with the smaller one coming up and subduing 3 before him. But the real key is this Trib covenant. As a Pre-trib believer, we will not be here when it is ratified. However it is possible it will be in the works. What an ultimate sign that would be. From what I understand the restrainer of his ability to fully come onto the scene as the world leader (false shepherd) that the world will fawn over at the beginning of the 7 years is the Holy Spirit. i.e. AC and world events are restrained from being fully ripe until the fullness of the gentiles has been reached. Then the Rapture will occur. Afterwards he is free to enact the covenant and take his seat as the world leader. He enjoys this capacity for 3 1/2 years and will be mortally wounded as you have eloquently stated. Then Apollyon does his evil and the final 3 1/2 years ensue. Michael is restraining Apollyon and the allowance of pure evil to begin up til the mid-point. But it is the Holy Spirit who is Restraining these events to begin until the Church is at its fullness and we are Raptured.

I believe we are all in agreement, at least for the most part, with this instruction.

This has been a most informative thread. I have enjoyed reading it and being stirred to doublecheck what I have come to believe from Scripture.

May God Bless His Word!

[Sean Osborne]

Sean. if I may, I would like to interject. What Chris, you, and I and others are saying are all following the same line of reasoning.

Pastor Mike,

Yes, I understand this, and agree. I was just adding some 'color commentary' based upon my background knowledge to 'flesh out' the real world events which are going to occur.

I also have very little if any doubt that the identity of "the man of sin, son of perdition" will be recognizable prior to the occurance of the Harpazo. There are other prophetic items and templates from within The Word which make this identification possible through eschatological analysis.

[Truth Files]

I would suggest a comparison of Daniel 10:5-21; 11:1 with Revelation 1:10-16

The "restrainer" may very well be the Lord Himself

[mattfivefour]

I would suggest a comparison of Daniel 10:5-21; 11:1 with Revelation 1:10-16

The "restrainer" may very well be the Lord Himself

The problem with this, it would seem to me, is that if you accept that the person described in Daniel 10:5 is a Christophany and do not recognize a change in person from the one who appears in that verse and the one who speaks starting in verse 12, then you have a Biblical passage that says that Jesus was not strong enough to overcome Satan by Himself, but required the angel Michael to help Him. In other words, God is NOT omnipotent. This cannot be, for we know from His Word that He is omnipotent. In fact one of His titles is The Almighty. Therefore, in light of 2 Corinthians 10:5, we must cast down this reasoning as false for it indeed exalts itself against the knowledge of God.

The result, then, is that the speaker of Daniel 10:10-15 cannot be God. I believe the way to recognize this is to discern that there is a transition between the One of Daniel 10:5-9 and the one of Daniel 10:10-15; and possibly another transition back to the original One in Daniel 10:16-21. But as to that second transition, it is not necessarily so; you see, the word with which Daniel addresses the one who is speaking to him at this point is (adon) and means lord, master, owner, and husband. While it is one of the many names for God, it is also used of men. For example it is the word used in Job 3:19 where it says "the servant is free from his master" in the grave, and in Proverbs 27:18 where it says he "who waits upon his master shall be honored." There are many, many other instances in the OT of adon being used for a man. Therefore we cannot presume that this one speaking in these latter verses of Daniel 10 is The One. And indeed, for the reason I outlined in the first paragraph, we must presume that he is not.

[Faith]

Some say the 'restrainer' is the Roman Empire, but remember, the empire has long vanished and the '
the holder back' is not yet reveal...

Another suggestion is that this is Satan,but it is difficult to see why he would hold back sin.

Some say it was Michael, but Michael is Israel's angel...not the Church...

The Holy Spirit of God is the [B]only Person [B] with supernatural power to do this restraining.

Notice the scripture said HE,and the HS is neuter..

HOw does He do it? Through Christians, whom He indwells and through whom He works in society to hold back the swelling tide of lawless living.

How will He be taken out of the way? When the church leaves the earth in the Rapture, the HS will be TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY so the removal of the Restrainer at the time of the Rapture must obviously PRECEDE the DAY OF THE LORD (Tri).

After the removal of restraint the world will plunge headlong into lawlessone,and the man of sin will be revealed.

Yes, once the Church is taken out of the way in the Rapture, the INDWELLING HS WITHIN THE BELIEVER is remove with the Church to meet the Lord in the air...

I believe from studying the Word that the HS will come back to earth to work in the Great Tribulation just like He did in the OT.

In the OT, they didn't have the INDWELLING OF THE HS like the Church..

The HS CAME UPON INDIVIDUAL MEN AND FILLED THEM FOR SOME SPECIAL SERVICE OR WORK; whereas, in the Church Age, God is dealing with individuals.

Two examples of the HS in the OT:

Soon the HS WILL NO LONGER STRIVE WITH MEN, and He ceased to do before the Flood, though God gave them 120 years' warning. Gen. 6:3

In Psalms when David prayed for the HS not to LEAVE HIM...

When the HS comes down to work in the Great Tribulation, He will sealed the 144,000 witnesses and the 2 witnesses...

God bless...

[Meg]

Bonhoeffer's Ethics has an outstanding discussion of the current apostasy, it starts in the section in Ethics As Formation, under the subhead, Inheritance And Decay. This is a long and involved discussion, and it sheds a lot of light on why Metaxas called him a prophet. He starts with the French Revolution and how that was the open salvo of the secularization of Europe, but its where he goes from there that may actually be safely considered prophetic. Byh page 106, paragraph 2 (in the Touchstone paperback edition), Bonhoeffer is describing the early development of the horrors of the society we see degrading with breath taking speed around us today. Yhen he goes on to discuss the restrainer and from what he says, it is pretty well certain that the removal of the Restrainer will be the Rapture and why this makes sense:

And the Restrainer is the force which takes effect within history through God's governance of the world and which sets due limits to evil.

Is it possible that the "man of lawlessness" is a type rather than an individual? (this is a question for someone wiser than myself, not a conclusion phrased as a question)

[mattfivefour]

And the Restrainer is the force which takes effect within history through God's governance of the world and which sets due limits to evil.

But is this not a description of the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Surely it is. Therefore, logic (if a is the sole cause of b and c is the sole cause of b then a and c must be the same) demands that He must be the Restrainer. And that accords with my understanding of the Greek which would indicate a single person not some impersonal (albeit God-created) force.

[Meg]

But is this not a description of the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Surely it is. Therefore, logic (if a is the sole cause of b and c is the sole cause of b then a and c must be the same) demands that He must be the Restrainer. And that accords with my understanding of the Greek which would indicate a single person not some impersonal (albeit God-created) force.

I suspect the conflict is only in style of communication, or of perception.

[Elijah's Mantle]

some thing to give great thought to

[Meg]

I reread the passage on the restrainer, and Bonhoeffer seems to have been mistaken on that point. He saw something in the course of history, he attributed to God control over events, but he didn't recognize the restrainer in Thessalonians as the Holy Spirit. Why, I don't know. I can't help but think that it had something to do with the weirdness and apostasy of the Catholic church and even Martin Luther having faults of his own. For all that, Bonhoeffer got far more well thought out and conceived than what he got wrong. I find it very telling that even though he was a citizen of Germany with family in Berlin, he didn't think Hitler was the AC, and so far I see no indication that he thought the Rapture was going to happen before 1950 or something like that (in other words almost immediately in his lifetime). Sign, I think, of a careful Bible scholar. Israel was not a nation before Bonhoeffer was executed...

[Kenny64]

Could not resist. The restrainer is not 'removed' just taken out of the way. I read the magazine
every article on the 'rapture'. Most are written by Ron J. Bigalke. Maybe some here read this. " MIDNIGHT CALL "
Ex Director is Arno Froese. This was written about in December 2010 in part 3 of the rapture.
He explains" The Holy Spirit is removed only as He indwells the church. The Holy Spirit is not taken from the earth because He is God, and therefore omnipresent. The removal must involve the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirt. The Holy Spirit indwells every Christian at the moment of baptism into the body of Christ (1 Corinth 12:13) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is unique for the church; a permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit never occured in the Old Testiment.:

I also relly like this scripture in Luke 21: 32-37

32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
37And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.


I did bold and underline verse 36 which I believe are Jesus words of what will come to pass.

Maranatha...
Kenny

edited later.... please see http://www.rapturealert.com/secondthess2Guzik.asp paragraph 2 is very explainatory to this subject.

[mattfivefour]

Could not resist. The restrainer is not 'removed' just taken out of the way.

Absolutely correct, Kenny. He is not removed from the earth. But He is removed from the Church, since the Church no longer exists on earth.

The phrase in Greek— ἕως ἐκ μέσου γένηται—literally translates as "until out of the midst he might be become". The last two Greek words of that phrase tell us a few things. The adjective μέσοs tells us out of what "he" is removed ... it is literally "the midst". It is the same word used in Luke 22:55 where we are told "Peter sat in the midst of them" (ἐκάθητο ὁ Πέτρος μέσος αὐτῶν). The verb γίνομαι literally means "to become". It is here rendered as γένηται, thus making it third person, masculine, singular action in the second aorist tense, middle voice, subjunctive mood. The tense and mood are key to this in that, had it been a present subjunctive, it would refer to a durative action ... in other words, one that continues. But being in the aorist subjunctive it means a punctiliar action— one that occurs at one specific point in time. That it is subjunctive at all, rather than indicative, means that it expresses a potential action at some point to come. And that it is in the unique middle voice of ancient Greek means that, in one sense, the one to whom it refers is acted upon rather than doing the acting. It is very similar to our own passive voice, except that (to quote from a Greek grammar) in the middle voice the subject "is acting in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results of the verbal action. In overly simplistic terms, sometimes the middle form of the verb could be translated as 'the performer of the action actually acting upon himself' (reflexive action). For example: 'I am washing myself.' 'I' is the subject of the sentence (performing the action of the verb) and yet 'I' am also receiving the action of the verb.'

So the verse in question does not say until "someone or something is taken out of the way" but specifically until "he is become out of the midst." Perhaps this is where the confusion has occurred among those who think that if "he" refers to the Holy Spirit then it must mean He leaves. But it doesn't say that.

Unfortunately, it also leaves us speculating on what midst he becomes out of. Here we need to go to other scriptures to determine what Paul is speaking of. I won't get into the detail of that here.

But we also need to recognize that the two verbs (actually present participles) in which "restraining" is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 are different in form. The King James translates these two verses as "6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 1 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." This is an improper articulation of the original grammar. A much better rendition is "And you know that which is restraining him [my note: "him" here refers to the Evil One, the Man of Lawlessness] now, so that in his time he will be revealed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work (but) only until He who now restraining is become out of the midst." I find in this more accurate rendering of the Greek the idea that the Holy Spirit is the one who currently has set a fixed limit on how much lawlessness can exist in the world, in other words it is He who restrains Satan. But when we, the Church, are removed from the earth and are with Christ in Heaven, the Holy Spirit no longer needs to be in residence in us as a token of our salvation since at that point we possess it in full. Hence He is removed from the midst of us ... but not from the earth, where he will continue to draw men unto Christ. But oh the agony of those who finally come to Christ during the Tribulation, not having the balm of grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to comfort and strengthen them. Their only road to salvation will be through faith in Christ unto martyrdom!

I hope this brief word study has not been too tedious and that it provides some food for somebody.

[Elijah's Mantle]

The Holy Spirit is removed only as He indwells the church. The Holy Spirit is not taken from the earth because He is God, and therefore omnipresent. The removal must involve the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirt. The Holy Spirit indwells every Christian at the moment of baptism into the body of Christ (1 Corinth 12:13) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is unique for the church; a permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit never occured in the Old Testiment.:

finally a light bulb moment

when it says 'He" in verse 4 and then also in verse 6 refers to the AC

and in verse 7 it refers to the Holy spirit or the church ?

ok the mystery of iniquity must be false teachings
why ? is the he not the church ? (indwelled believers )that restrains
well that makes sense what you stated
about the Holy Spirit

In my brain I keep thinking it has to be either the church or the Holy Spirit
and so that makes sense

[Meg]

Wow Matt! Thank you for that clarification, totally, thank you! If you may, could you change your mind on this one though?

Unfortunately, it also leaves us speculating on what midst he becomes out of. Here we need to go to other scriptures to determine what Paul is speaking of. I won't get into the detail of that here.

I, for one, would really like to know. I hate to say this, but sometimes the concept of the Rapture just seems too impossible for me to really grasp. Its quite the transition from unbeliever to Christian later in life, it really is quite the transition in perception in some ways...

[Navyblue]

Kenny64 wrote:
The Holy Spirit is removed only as He indwells the church. The Holy Spirit is not taken from the earth because He is God, and therefore omnipresent. The removal must involve the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit indwells every Christian at the moment of baptism into the body of Christ (1 Corinth 12:13) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is unique for the church; a permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit never occurred in the Old Testament.:

Thank you Kenny. I have been trying to get people to understand, but keep using the term "control, or power" of Holy Spirit, through the removal of the Church, not for Churches sake, but to remove the control ..." and, elsewhere, have received much flack. You say it much better than I have been able. Yeee-Haaa!!! and AMEN

IMO, dat's gotta bee very very SOON.

Splice the Main-Brace, it is Feast-Time, at the Wedding Supper.

Arley

[Elijah's Mantle]

well I must say this was in fact rather hard for me to grasp
I had to work at it slowly and with patience before I could get it
the only thing we can find that is removed from this earth during this time?
is often called the Body of Christ (church) believers ect.....yet is what we also know as
the Rapture...or (departure) which does not state removal but none the less that's the event
and we know from

1 Thessalonians 4:17 known as the rapture also
the "He"...
that is withholding the power of Satan and the revealing of the Wicked, or what is referred to as the son of perdition would obviously be the Holy Spirit living inside believers

It's the only thing spoken of that will be removed from this earth before he is revealed. Least that I can find ,so the way it was stated finally clicked
Ive questioned if Michael the ark Angel could restrain Satan , but in scripture it does not totally indicate that. The only power powerful enough is actually God and we know he is omni-present and so he wont ever be taken out of the way it would be Holy spirit filled believers