Have We Anointed An Unworthy Shepherd?

[Chris]

Have We Anointed An Unworthy Shepherd?
By Jan Markell
Olive Tree Ministries with Jan Markell
August 31, 2010

Could we say that the church has failed to wake up very many people so, by default, a Mormon -- Glenn Beck -- has made quite a stir and has become an official spiritual leader? He rallied hundreds of thousands last weekend with themes of faith and love of our country. Americans are desperate and fearful of what is coming upon this land so they look to a Mormon for leadership. I am glad his Saturday event was successful for just some of these reasons:

* Americans came to celebrate America after the highest leaders in our land have trashed her around the world.

* They focused on what was right in America and they also honored our military.

* Faith and patriotism were lifted up -- two items that the Left despises.

* Attendees were passionate -- traveling thousands of miles and, once arriving in D.C., walking for miles, even if handicapped.

* Conservative Americans must gather together to fortify one another. Such events strengthen one another and offer hope. Finding kindred spirits in a depressing age is essential.

* Whether the Left heard or not, the attendees sent a message that they are fed up. November is around the corner and they had better look out.

In light of the positive aspects of the honoring America weekend, could there possibly be a down side? I tried to do a fair and balanced radio program last Saturday, August 28, with Brannon Howse, former Mormon Ed Decker, and apologetics' expert Eric Barger. We raised a few issues, and you can hear them here. I have received some thanks for the honesty and integrity of the two hours, and a few hate e-mails and calls for the position the panel took, which will be explained in the paragraphs below.

The theme of the Friday gathering of spiritual leaders and the Saturday rally was an encouragement to turn back to God. The not-so-subtle theme was "many faiths, but one God."

I believe many conservative Christians would have been relieved if Glenn had not brought out Mormon doctrine that very few are familiar with. He stated at the Saturday event that the American Indians are the "chosen people" -- blatant Mormon doctrine. The crowd applauded in approval. You can view that here at the 4:30 mark.

He stated -- and has affirmed this on his radio and television programs -- that God is the only answer. While much was troublesome last weekend, who else is sticking their neck out saying we have to turn back to God and gathering hundreds of thousands in the process? It would be wonderful if Franklin Graham or even Joel Rosenberg could attract a half-million people and deliver the true gospel. We aren't quite there yet. Again, by default, we defer to Glenn Beck.

The weekend opened on Friday night, Augsust 27, with Glenn's "Divine Destiny" program which again, is straight out of Mormonism. Many participants have implied, or blatantly stated, that Glenn is a "saved Mormon" or on the way to becoming one.

Friend and frequent radio guest John McTernan, was present both days just to observe. He writes on his blog, "There were several prayers offered at the Friday event and none were made in the name of Jesus. I was deeply grieved after I left.

"On Saturday, I attended the rally. If it had been just political, I could accept Beck as a leader; however, it went way beyond that. I am not questioning anything about Beck's character or motives. What I am deeply grieved about is that this was not led by the real church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is America in such desperate spiritual condition that masses of Christians will follow a Mormon for spiritual revival?"

McTernan continues, "The sheep in America are desperate and fearful of what is coming, so they look to a Mormon for leadership. A Mormon leading a meeting like this for America turning back to God should have God-fearing pastors in America on their knees crying out to God for mercy. I am grieved, not so much with Glenn Beck, but that the church is so pitifully weak that a Mormon can now lead God's people, and they do not see the spiritual danger."

What are major Mormon beliefs and how do they play into this scenario? When God is the professed focus of the August 27-28 weekend, what is the deeper meaning? And Glenn is outspoken about his Mormon faith. He so-stated that fact many times over the weekend and in the weeks and months leading up to it. It was not subtle or hidden. But Glenn does not bring out the bullet points below because it reads like science fiction.

Mormon theology teaches:

* God was born and raised on another planet.

* He has a harem of wives.

* They produce spirit-babies that are sent to earth; there they gain bodies and earn sainthood.

* Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.

* Jesus is the chosen/elected savior by a council of gods from other worlds.

* America is the promised land, not Israel. The holy city is Independence, Missouri, not Jerusalem. Jesus' latter-day agenda is to return to Missouri.

* The U.S. Constitution is as sacred as the Book of Mormon. In the latter days, it will be under siege and will be saved by Mormons. Thus, we must "reclaim America" to save the Constitution and usher in a genuine age of Mormon leadership. They want to build a Mormon kingdom on earth, similar to modern day Dominionists/Kingdom Now proponents within Christianity. Founder Joseph Smith had a socialistic philosophy and wished to have a society that shared things in common.

* America's founding fathers were "spirit babies" who created a "sacred Constitution."

* Salvation is works-based and not through grace and faith.

This is what Glenn Beck believes. Is the god of this system, this faith, the one he referred to when he stated, "Today, America turns back to God?" Is his god concept one we can turn back to?

For greater insights, visit the Web site of former Mormon and radio guest, Ed Decker. Also visit the apologetics' site of Eric Barger.

Brannon Howse has done extensive radio programs and written cutting-edge articles on this issue for over a week.

Jim Garlow, a popular and influential pastor who partnered with the Mormon faithful in California to defend traditional marriage, was quoted recently in CNN's Belief Blog, saying, "I have interviewed persons who have talked specifically with Glenn about his personal salvation -- persons extremely well known in Christianity -- and they have affirmed (using language evangelicals understand), 'Glenn is saved. He understands receiving Christ as Savior.' "

In short, Mormonism has a different holy book, father, Jesus, concept of grace, salvation, end-times, etc. You cannot be a "saved Mormon." Evangelicals who should know better already call him a "brother in Christ." Some of those share the Mormon "dominion" of the earth and this is their connection. Promoting this false end-time theology of making the earth perfect seems to trump everything else. We can't save the earth and make it perfect. Jesus Christ has to return to do that.

So, was the following the purpose? Brannon Howse has posted a story at his Worldview Weekend site that the LDS Examiner states through Mormon writer Greg West, "As a Mormon, I have to consider an unintended message throughout Beck's work, which has culminated in this event. That message is: 'Mormons are Christian believers. Despite nearly two centuries of misrepresentation and religious envy by sectarian Christianity, Beck has achieved the visibility, prominence, and has had the time day after day, week after week, to speak openly and truly about his core beliefs. Those statements of faith have disoriented and confused those who had previously believed the lies about Mormons."

West has proved our point. "Evangelicals and Mormons Together" will be next. Why not? A Mormon successfully called a nation back to God.

Most who stand with Glenn, however, do not embrace this theology. Some Christian leaders are just deceived and others think it is hip and cool to align themselves with a man who is so prominent and so pro-America.

John McTernan states, "I know Mormonism real well. There is a Mormon prophecy that America is going to be nearly destroyed with the Constitution hanging by a thread. A Mormon savior would arrive and lead the Mormon church to save America. I can see this coming into play real soon. Maybe the revival Beck is talking about is a massive conversion to Mormonism."

We sincerely hope Glenn Beck will become a true brother in Christ. We can pray to that end and also that Christian leaders will sharpen their discernment and understand the disservice they are doing to the body of Christ by exalting an unsaved man, and allowing him to be a virtual shepherd over millions of Americans who just want to take back America.

[Nell]

Oh...you forgot some parts of their doctrine...

* Not only are the American Indians the "chosen people", but Black people or African Americans by race are EVIL and considered from "the evil one".

* Also they pray for their dead ancestors (during service) so that they may obtain salvation (from what I understood).


I have a VERY, VERY sweet friend (she looked after me when no one else would when I was pregnant) and she invited me to attend a service, which I did. Let me say that they were some of the NICEST PEOPLE that you ever want to meet. They were surprisingly kind to me. I was the only one of "my kind" in the entire church. (I am Black). Needless to say, I don't agree with some things they taught, but I held my peace and listened carefully during service. My friend tried to explain to me that there are various types of Mormons and they don't all believe the same doctrine. They even tried to convert me and extended membership to me.

Did I mention how extremely nice they were? It really is so confusing. They had many more doctrines that they taught that I will be happy to share with anyone, if interested.

Anyway, I now feel that I missed my opportunity to minister to her/them about Jesus. I really feel that it is my duty to do so. I am slightly on the timid side when it comes to that, so please guys, pray for my strength. I know that their doctrine is wrong, but I'm not sure that I am strong enough to fight against them scripture for scripture. (They also have their own Bible). I just wouldn't know what to say!

These really are wonderful, lovely and good hearted people, they are just sadly misguided in their beliefs....just horribly confused.

[Chris]

I know some Mormons and they are nice people, too. I know some Catholics, too, and they nice as well. Some of them are not. People of the cults are oftentimes sucked into the theology and don't know the truth because they don't know their Bible. And then there are some like Glenn Beck who just points out blank says he is attracted to Mormonism because it is different from Christianity. These people know the truth, but willingly accept a lie and the deception. I don't know why anyone would reject the truth of Jesus Christ as the Messiah to believe some looney tunes theology like that that is listed in the OP.

We need to pray for them and help them discover the errors of their way.

[jtvol]

I've really been thinking long and hard about this too. I heard this today. Please give it a listen:

http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/show...re_evangel.php

I've been a fan of Beck's but I saw some red flags from this rally (such as the attempt to unit religions, some of the things he said, etc. now I have a lot of questions about Beck which is sad because he's one of the view and the only one at the level he is at that is reporting the things that deal with prophecy.

[mikhen7]

For those interested I posted a link and some comments from the LDS (Latter Day Saints Mormon) Forum in another post.

It makes my heart ache inside. But God is in control...the true one!

Glenn Beck Rally Causes Even More Evangelical Confusion Post #er 10

God bless you brothers and sisters who have a heart for the lost and the truth!

[Nell]

I apologize for not making myself clear when I emphasized their kindness.

My reason for that, is that a lot of times (in the Church) we, as Christians, fight and argue amongst ourselves over small things. We argue over who is "more saved than whom", and who can be "the most correct" in their argument over someone else. When you sit down and look at, the immaturity of it all can really be a turn off, not only to current church members, but especially in the eyes of those who are not saved and we are trying to win over for Christ.

Although their doctrine is completely false, the one thing that they DID get right was love their brother. During the entire service, I kept my eyes peeled (believe me) for any hint of meaness, racism, and all out hatred. They were VERY loving toward each other, and outsiders, and sadly, I can't say the same for all of us.

Now with that said, nonetheless, the doctrine is false...and COMPLETELY false. As far as doctrine, it is either true or false...not halfway...kind of like how a woman can't say she is "partially pregnant" or "a little pregnant". It is either true or false.

Now, perhaps I am not completely clear, but from my understanding, there are typically 2 types of people that spread false doctrine. There are those who are malicious hate the truth, then there are those (who I believe Glenn "and my husband" falls under) who have good intentions, but are just confused and lost. That is where our job comes in as followers of Jesus Christ.

I really think Beck has good intentions and is a sweet person who feels that he loves God and is doing the right thing (As a lot of other mormons), but he is just completely confused.

[myinnuendo999]

I know we hear this verse often but It instantly popped up in my mind today as we are--- I believe-- witnessing God's hand of protection lifting away from this nation and as we are getting so close to the return of Jesus for His Church.


1Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Sad to see our Brothers and sisters committing spiritual adultery

[Chris]

I apologize for not making myself clear when I emphasized their kindness.

My reason for that, is that a lot of times (in the Church) we, as Christians, fight and argue amongst ourselves over small things. We argue over who is "more saved than whom", and who can be "the most correct" in their argument over someone else. When you sit down and look at, the immaturity of it all can really be a turn off, not only to current church members, but especially in the eyes of those who are not saved and we are trying to win over for Christ.

Although their doctrine is completely false, the one thing that they DID get right was love their brother. During the entire service, I kept my eyes peeled (believe me) for any hint of meaness, racism, and all out hatred. They were VERY loving toward each other, and outsiders, and sadly, I can't say the same for all of us.

Now with that said, nonetheless, the doctrine is false...and COMPLETELY false. As far as doctrine, it is either true or false...not halfway...kind of like how a woman can't say she is "partially pregnant" or "a little pregnant". It is either true or false.

Now, perhaps I am not completely clear, but from my understanding, there are typically 2 types of people that spread false doctrine. There are those who are malicious hate the truth, then there are those (who I believe Glenn "and my husband" falls under) who have good intentions, but are just confused and lost. That is where our job comes in as followers of Jesus Christ.

I really think Beck has good intentions and is a sweet person who feels that he loves God and is doing the right thing (As a lot of other mormons), but he is just completely confused.

The Mormons are not the "super nice guy" people. I'm sure they have their own arguments and whatnot. there are different versions of Mormonism I believe. I've met regular Christians that were just as nice as the Mormons, if not nicer and were biblical too. I guarantee you there are Mormons who are just as hateful as the next guy. Especially since the holy spirit is not going to reside in a cult member who follows a different god. And unless you can read their mind, which I know you can't, you have no idea what is under that smile they have on their face. Hitler smiled alot, too.

And if they thought black people were evil and from the devil, then that's not very nice. And even if I agreed with you that they were the "super duper nice people" getting one thing right in their theology doesn't undo all the other mess.

I'm not sure Beck is confused. He specifically states in the link I provided in another thread that the difference between Mormonism and Christianity is what appealed to him. He likes what they believe. He willfully chooses that path. Glenn has heard the gospel but still stays in the Mormon church.

He needs prayers as do all the other cult members who worship a different Jesus and God.

[Nell]

I will say as a science history teacher in the public school system....you are right. Hitler did smile alot.


...and I realize that Satan has pearly whites as well.


But, the only point that I was trying to get over is that, although we as Christrians who follow the One True Living God, the One Who died for our sins, it seems like right now that we are being outdone by the mormons.

When I turn on my T.V., there will be a touching commercial about showing love and helping your fellow man....and I will say "Oh, that is so nice and refreshing to see that instead of lust and disgust being advertised"......then at the end, the tiny writing will say ...(From the mormons), then I'm like "ugh!" "Why can't WE do that".

Then it's halloween. Because my neighborhood is considered "affluent", many children feel safe "trick or treating" and they would...that is until the MORMONS started passing out those little leaflets of how halloween is of the devil. I read through many of them...you wouldn't know they were from the mormon church until you read the tiny font in the back. Why don't we do that anymore? Well, at least the "trick or treat" population in my neighborhood has decreased. But still "ugh".

My last example: I am one of those women that endured a VERY difficult pregnancy...preclampsia, high blood sugar...the works...definitely on bed rest. I'm normally a tiny woman, but my belly was so huge, I could barely leave my house, my husband had to litterally roll me in and out of bed and dress me. But when he had to leave for work (at night)....guess who faithfull checked on me, made sure I was safe and brought me goods from town? You guessed it..the mormons. This is even after I insulted them by telling them their doctrine is false and I wasn't interested. They still came, made sure my doors were locked brought things to me from town...waited on me hand and foot. I doubt Hitler would have done any of that for me. Many Christians knew from work knew my condition...NOT ONE besides the mormon showed up.

Boy I tell ya...if I didn't already know the truth....they sure would have convinced me!!!

Personally, I do what I can when I can, but I'm only one person. Saints, why aren't WE visiting the sick and shut in anymore? We aren't doing pep rallies...commercials...anything. So, yeah, although we didn't annoint Beck (he's NOT my shepherd)...he is stepping up....and WE SHOULD BE stepping up and showing that same love that the mormons are professing. That should have been US doing that rally!

Right now the mormons are showing us up. If we LET them, they will be in the forefront. If we don't get off our duffs, a lot of sheep will be misled...on OUR WATCH.

[mattfivefour]

Nell, a couple of thoughts. You wrote: "Boy I tell ya...if I didn't already know the truth....they sure would have convinced me!!!"

Exactly. In fact the Word of God says tha the Satanic deception will be so great in the last days that it would deceive even the elect ... if such a thing were possible. (Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22) Now such a thing is not possible, for the Spirit of Truth will guide us into all Truth (John 16:33), and God says He will keep us His Chosen and will never leave nor forsake us. (Deuteronomy 31:8; Hebrews 13:5)

The problem comes for those who have never made a whole-hearted acceptance of Christ, who have never been truly born again. Our churches are full of them. But, worse, our churches are full of men behind the pulpit who have never been born again, either. Like Jeremiah in his great Lamentation over the fate of Jerusalem, the chosen city, many of us are crying in our hearts "The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all the chosen city's pleasant things: for she hath seen that the heathen entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command that they should not enter into thy congregation." (Lamentations 1:10 ) When Paul took his final leval from the Ephesians on his way to eventual imprisonment and martyrdom, he said to the elders, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them." (Acts 20: 28-30 NASB) This happoened in the early church just as the Holy Spirit said through Paul that it would. As a result we have false groups that exist even today such as the RCC, the Greek Orthodox, the Coptic Church, etcetera. Yet God is faithful and did not allow his true Church to be prevailed against. Church history shows us that in every generation he had faithful followers and when in His good pleasure the time was right He lifted up men like Tyndale, Latimer, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Trent, Whitfield, Moody, and so many more, to ensure His message would continue being proclaimed as He designed it.

Today there are men who are still faithfully proclaiming God's gospel of salvation through faith in Christ and His finished work at the Cross. Some are well-known. Others toil in anonymity, caring not for the spotlight, but knowing that in serving Christ in whatever way He leads is the only way they can even begin to repay the great love He has shown them by reaching down and saving them from Hell. Thus they do everything they can to proclaim the gospel to the lost and encourage and build up the believers in their most holy faith, a faith once for all given by God to man.

I am not worried about the Church. Paul ended his farewell to the Ephesian elders with the words: "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified." (Acts 20:31-32) You see, God Himself has undertaken to build His Church. And He has successfully done so for almost 2,000 years despite everything the Devil could throw at it. All that persecution on one hand and worldly success on the other has done through the centuries is to separate the sheep from the goats, the true believers from the false ones, the wheat from the tares. And it has also served to purify those who remained in the faith.

God is performing that very same work today. Those who are His are indeed doing what they can as they are led by the Holy Spirit and encouraged by those men (and women) whom God has placed in the Church with gifts to helkp build up that Body on its faith.

You say, "But, the only point that I was trying to get over is that, although we as Christrians who follow the One True Living God, the One Who died for our sins, it seems like right now that we are being outdone by the mormons. " I agree. but that is because the bulk of Mormons truly believe what they believe. As deceived as they are, they believe their doctrines. And the LDS church in its various manifestations ensures that they have an active (not to mention compulsory) evangelical program that sees every young man in the church forced to serve as a full-time door to door evangelist for two years. There is no similar compulsion in God's Church. But He does put it upon the hearts of His children to serve Him and to serve their fellow man. Unfortunately the teachers and preachers in many churches are more interested in man's wisdom than in God's and read anything and everything but His Word.

Nonetheless, the Church will emerge triumphant and Christ will bring with Himself to the Father a Bride prepared without spot or wrinkle. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church of this generation any more than they did against previous ones over the past 2,000 years.

But there are many being lost, and others drawing back to their own destruction for lack of shepherds with true hearts, prophets with true messages, teachers with true teaching. We ... each of us ... has been chosen by God and has been placed into His Church with specific gifts He has given us. We are to use those gifts—whatever they may be—for the edification, the building up, of one another. We may have a teeny weeny gift in our eyes. We may have a bigger one. But it does not matter. We are ALL under the obligation to use that gift for one another.

The answer to the weakness of the Church today is not running out "doing pep rallies...commercials" or anything else. The answer to the weakness in the church is for those who have experienced salvation to stop playing Christian and get real. To daily wake up with the thought of God on their minds. To daily reckon themselves to be dead to sin. To have been translated from the darkness of this world into God's glorious Kingdom. To daily determine that they will no longer live for themselves—for their own ideas, plans, dreams, whatever—but solely to serve Christ. That is the meaning of takiang up your cross daily. It is daily having the attitude that you are now dead to yourself and all you want but alive unto Christ and all He wants.

And if that sounds too extreme to someone reading this, then that someone needs to fall in love with Christ. They need to get saved and have a heart knowledge, not just a head knowledge. Then you will recognize that you no longer live but it is Christ who lives in you, as Paul said in Galatians 2:20. Truly we are not our own any longer. If we are indeed saved, then we know that. We know that we were bought with a price and belong to Him who bought us. And our heart's desire is to do everything we can to repay Him ... though we shall never be able to even come close.

God isn't looking for people with ideas to do things, He is looking for people willing to surrender their all to Him. Do that and He will open doors you never thought could open and will perform works through you that you never thought possible.

In Christ,

Adrian

[mikitta]

Matt, all you have said is true - but Nell's point is that in her own life, it wasn't Christians who ministered to her - Christians who SHOULD have been there - it was the Mormons, who go out of their way to honeymoon people into the church.

Christ's people, the Church, have dropped the ball. Plain and simple. We have the frozen chosen sitting amongst wolves in sheep's clothing. We have career pastors who do what they do only because it's a job. Everyone thinks of evangelism as something others do in places like Africa. WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM IN CHRIST'S CHURCH - THAT PROBLEM IS SLEEPING SAINTS. It's all somebody else's problem. "Go away, brother, be warm and well fed."

We, as the Church, have to start putting our faith where our feet are, where our hands are, where our eyes are. We have to stop giving lip service to God and get off our collective duff to take this Gospel to a lost and dying world in such a way that we demonstrate Christ in a real and salient fashion so the lost can SEE it - feed the poor, minister to the fatherless and the widows, visit those in prison, when a brother or sister has a need we do all in our power to meet it, and ALWAYS be prepared to give an answer to all who ask about the joy we have.

If we don't wake up the sleeping Church, God is going to do the waking by allowing us to go through really ugly times, real persecution.

God Bless,
mik

[swannj53]

The answer to the weakness of the Church today is not running out "doing pep rallies...commercials" or anything else. The answer to the weakness in the church is for those who have experienced salvation to [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]stop playing Christian and get real. [/COLOR] To daily wake up with the thought of God on their minds. To daily reckon themselves to be dead to sin. To have been translated from the darkness of this world into God's glorious Kingdom. To daily determine that they will no longer live for themselves—for their own ideas, plans, dreams, whatever—but solely to serve Christ. That is the meaning of takiang up your cross daily. It is daily having the attitude that you are now dead to yourself and all you want but alive unto Christ and all He wants.

And if that sounds too extreme to someone reading this, then that someone needs to fall in love with Christ. They need to get saved and have a heart knowledge, not just a head knowledge. Then you will recognize that you no longer live but it is Christ who lives in you, as Paul said in Galatians 2:20. Truly we are not our own any longer. If we are indeed saved, then we know that. We know that we were bought with a price and belong to Him who bought us. And our heart's desire is to do everything we can to repay Him ... though we shall never be able to even come close.

God isn't looking for people with ideas to do things, He is looking for people willing to surrender their all to Him. Do that and He will open doors you never thought could open and will perform works through you that you never thought possible.

In Christ,

Adrian[/QUOTE]


I believe you have nailed it down very well, sir. when we walk and think like Adam we follow the lead of the one who corrupted Adam. When we follow the lead of the Holy Spirit, whom Christ died to provide for us, everything is new. I have found this is best done from the kneeling position, with the mouth closed and the eyes lifted, the ears open to author who wrote the BOOK. The guidance we need can come from nowhere else.

[cathysue]

Well said Mikitta

[mattfivefour]

Mikitta and swannj— you are both absolutely correct. Thank you both for your expansions on my thoughts.

[jesuschangesall]

Nell, a couple of thoughts. You wrote: "Boy I tell ya...if I didn't already know the truth....they sure would have convinced me!!!"

Exactly. In fact the Word of God says tha the Satanic deception will be so great in the last days that it would deceive even the elect ... if such a thing were possible. (Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22) Now such a thing is not possible, for the Spirit of Truth will guide us into all Truth (John 16:33), and God says He will keep us His Chosen and will never leave nor forsake us. (Deuteronomy 31:8; Hebrews 13:5)

The problem comes for those who have never made a whole-hearted acceptance of Christ, who have never been truly born again. Our churches are full of them. But, worse, our churches are full of men behind the pulpit who have never been born again, either. Like Jeremiah in his great Lamentation over the fate of Jerusalem, the chosen city, many of us are crying in our hearts "The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all the chosen city's pleasant things: for she hath seen that the heathen entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command that they should not enter into thy congregation." (Lamentations 1:10 ) When Paul took his final leval from the Ephesians on his way to eventual imprisonment and martyrdom, he said to the elders, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them." (Acts 20: 28-30 NASB) This happoened in the early church just as the Holy Spirit said through Paul that it would. As a result we have false groups that exist even today such as the RCC, the Greek Orthodox, the Coptic Church, etcetera. Yet God is faithful and did not allow his true Church to be prevailed against. Church history shows us that in every generation he had faithful followers and when in His good pleasure the time was right He lifted up men like Tyndale, Latimer, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Trent, Whitfield, Moody, and so many more, to ensure His message would continue being proclaimed as He designed it.

Today there are men who are still faithfully proclaiming God's gospel of salvation through faith in Christ and His finished work at the Cross. Some are well-known. Others toil in anonymity, caring not for the spotlight, but knowing that in serving Christ in whatever way He leads is the only way they can even begin to repay the great love He has shown them by reaching down and saving them from Hell. Thus they do everything they can to proclaim the gospel to the lost and encourage and build up the believers in their most holy faith, a faith once for all given by God to man.

I am not worried about the Church. Paul ended his farewell to the Ephesian elders with the words: "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified." (Acts 20:31-32) You see, God Himself has undertaken to build His Church. And He has successfully done so for almost 2,000 years despite everything the Devil could throw at it. All that persecution on one hand and worldly success on the other has done through the centuries is to separate the sheep from the goats, the true believers from the false ones, the wheat from the tares. And it has also served to purify those who remained in the faith.

God is performing that very same work today. Those who are His are indeed doing what they can as they are led by the Holy Spirit and encouraged by those men (and women) whom God has placed in the Church with gifts to helkp build up that Body on its faith.

You say, "But, the only point that I was trying to get over is that, although we as Christrians who follow the One True Living God, the One Who died for our sins, it seems like right now that we are being outdone by the mormons. " I agree. but that is because the bulk of Mormons truly believe what they believe. As deceived as they are, they believe their doctrines. And the LDS church in its various manifestations ensures that they have an active (not to mention compulsory) evangelical program that sees every young man in the church forced to serve as a full-time door to door evangelist for two years. There is no similar compulsion in God's Church. But He does put it upon the hearts of His children to serve Him and to serve their fellow man. Unfortunately the teachers and preachers in many churches are more interested in man's wisdom than in God's and read anything and everything but His Word.

Nonetheless, the Church will emerge triumphant and Christ will bring with Himself to the Father a Bride prepared without spot or wrinkle. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church of this generation any more than they did against previous ones over the past 2,000 years.

But there are many being lost, and others drawing back to their own destruction for lack of shepherds with true hearts, prophets with true messages, teachers with true teaching. We ... each of us ... has been chosen by God and has been placed into His Church with specific gifts He has given us. We are to use those gifts—whatever they may be—for the edification, the building up, of one another. We may have a teeny weeny gift in our eyes. We may have a bigger one. But it does not matter. We are ALL under the obligation to use that gift for one another.

The answer to the weakness of the Church today is not running out "doing pep rallies...commercials" or anything else. The answer to the weakness in the church is for those who have experienced salvation to stop playing Christian and get real. To daily wake up with the thought of God on their minds. To daily reckon themselves to be dead to sin. To have been translated from the darkness of this world into God's glorious Kingdom. To daily determine that they will no longer live for themselves—for their own ideas, plans, dreams, whatever—but solely to serve Christ. That is the meaning of takiang up your cross daily. It is daily having the attitude that you are now dead to yourself and all you want but alive unto Christ and all He wants.

And if that sounds too extreme to someone reading this, then that someone needs to fall in love with Christ. They need to get saved and have a heart knowledge, not just a head knowledge. Then you will recognize that you no longer live but it is Christ who lives in you, as Paul said in Galatians 2:20. Truly we are not our own any longer. If we are indeed saved, then we know that. We know that we were bought with a price and belong to Him who bought us. And our heart's desire is to do everything we can to repay Him ... though we shall never be able to even come close.

God isn't looking for people with ideas to do things, He is looking for people willing to surrender their all to Him. Do that and He will open doors you never thought could open and will perform works through you that you never thought possible.

In Christ,

Adrian

God isn't looking for people with ideas to do things, He is looking for people willing to surrender their all to Him. Do that and He will open doors you never thought could open and will perform works through you that you never thought possible.

THis needs to be READ and RECEIVED..Blessings Adrian!

[Meg]

The whole problem with self proclaimed Christians who are anything but is they don't read the Word. If they should deign to read a little here and there, they don't trust it and don't honor it.

What just leaves me gaping, is that waaay back in 1983, my boyfriend and i passed through Salt Lake City on our way to S. Calif, and we stopped at the mormon "tabernacle", to see what it was a ll about. Now we were a couple of pot-smoking hippies, didn't know two things about the Bible, but we could see quite clearly that the mormons were just full of fiction! In fact we thought the whole mormon rap was pretty funny it was so absurd! You would think Christians should know better...

[Nell]

Thank you so much Mikitta, for being understanding! It was a seemingly long day in school and I couldn't reply when I would have liked.

Also, thank you to the others for responding to my questions/concerns. This a wonderful site with so many wonderful people in Christ.

God Bless You All!

[Zeblade]

There are many Mormons that will be in heaven. As well as Muslims and the list goes on. There will be a lot of Christians not in heaven. Only the Father knows the heart of any man. And when someone is seeking HIM, the truth with all their heart they will find Him.

You know when we finial get to stand before Jesus (bow.. crawl.. Thank you Jesus our love). It wont matter how much we went to church, new every verse in the word, all we ever did.. wont matter. Nor all that we NEW we did wrong, never did right. For we are all the same. We are there because of what Jesus did. No more no less. And everything we have ever done for the lord.. was all HIM. We did NOTHING. We are a family. And the love He has for us we have no clue to how much. We see so many different peoples, church's, religions. He does not.

So remember no matter what we SEE, hear about or FROM a person.. Only the FATHER knows the heart of a man. This was not about Glenn Beck. To me hes trying to get us back to what we were. Other than that he is just soaking up to much sun .. so to speak :) God will use ANYONE.. we just think what , how and who it should be.

[mattfivefour]

No Zeblade there are NOT many Mormons who will be in Heaven. Nor many Muslims. The only people who will be in Heaven are those who accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Those who trust in any other efforts or choose any other way will not be there. It cannot be Jesus and something ... but only Jesus. Jesus alone. Eternal life with God has nothing to do with anything but the acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ as the sole means and the sole way of redemption. The ONLY way to seek the Father is through the Son. The Father rejects any other way.

Now you are almost correct in saying there will be many Christians that will not be in Heaven. The correct statement is that there will be many who call themselves Christians who will not be in Heaven. The reason is that they were never true Christians in the first place. They had only a head knowledge of Christ, not a heart knowledge.

Where you are completely correct is in this part:

You know when we finally get to stand before Jesus (bow.. crawl.. Thank you Jesus our love). It wont matter how much we went to church, new every verse in the word, all we ever did.. wont matter. Nor all that we NEW we did wrong, never did right. For we are all the same. We are there because of what Jesus did. No more no less.

This is absolutely true. And it excludes all those who trust in anything else. Including their religion. It also excludes those whose faith is at lip level, rather than at heart level. Those who are truly born again are changed by the Spirit of God, and they become truly new creatures. Old things are indeed passed away, and all things have become new.

Now you also say "So remember no matter what we SEE, hear about or FROM a person.. Only the FATHER knows the heart of a man" with the implication that we cannot judge a man's salvation. And in some ways that is true. In the parable of the tares, the Lord tells his servants not to try to separate the wheat from the tares; not because they might leave some tares, but because they might root out some wheat. (Matthew 13:29) The work Christ does begins inside and sometimes it takes longer in one person before fruit begins to show on the outside than it does in another person. It is the inner work that before God manifests whether a person is His or not. He indeed knows the heart.

BUT ... having said that, God does tell us that we shall know His children by their fruit. If the fruit is rotten, the tree is not His. We are to judge, the Bible says, a man's doctrine and a man's behavior. If he teaches error, if he lives contrary to the word, we are to correct him and if he will not listen we are to reject him.

To be a Christian ultimately requires one to believe the following things— that there is one God, and that He is holy and just, that one needs a Savior, that one can in no way themselves, that Jesus is God and the promised Messiah, that He alone is Savior, that His sacrifice is ever sufficient to save all who come to him in faith, and that every word He spoke is truth for He cannot lie.

Mormons believe that Jesus is a created being, that He is Satan's brother, that God is just one of many god's and that He was once a man just like us. They believe that one needs to work for one's salvation, that the secret rituals of the LDS church are necessary for that, and that one day if we do everything the LDS church teaches we shall be gods, too, and rule our own planets and universes, and create our own men and women with which to populate them and these men and women shall worship us and we shall be their god.

Muslims believe in a god called Allah. They believe that Jesus is just a prophet, a prophet who is of lesser importance than Mohammad. They believe that salvation is found in works obedience to Allah and the teachings of Mohammad. They believe that killing Allah's enemies and those who refuse to submit to the teachings of Allah are holy acts and will earn you a place in Paradise. You are positively guaranteed of this Paradise if you die while fighting for Allah. And the Paradise the Qu'ran tells of is a place where you will be able to eat and drink to your hearts content and be served sexually by virgins and young boys. Apparently Allah's "holiness" has nothing to do with his "heaven".

Yet you say that people who believe these things will go to the holy heaven of the holy God? Not according to what God Himself has revealed to us in His Word. And He tells us that His Word is for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17) Not only that, it says His Word leads to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. (2 timothy 3:15)

If they have heard the gospel of Jesus Christ yet reject it for these beliefs, you can 100 per cent guarantee they will NOT go to heaven. Glenn Beck knows the gospel but has chosen the beliefs of the LDS church because he says he likes them. And you are suggesting that that is not a rejection of the truth of Jesus Christ? You are suggesting that he has not substituted another gospel for the true gospel?

This idea that many people will be in heaven whom we do not expect to see there is true to some degree. There are people with points of disagreement in doctrine who will nevertheless be in Heaven because their faith was in Jesus Christ in truth. Respectfully,the thinking that those who reject God's way of salvation in Jesus will be in Heaven because they name His name is false. Many will name His name and indeed will have done great works purportedly for Him, but God will say to them, "Depart from me. I never knew you."

God's Word says He knows His sheep and they know Him. He says they know His voice and they follow Him. Mormons and Muslims ... and worldly Christians (whom I prefer to call Churchians) ... and believers of every other religion known to man ... are NOT following Christ. And they will NOT be in Heaven.

[myinnuendo999]

No Zeblade there are NOT many Mormons who will be in Heaven. Nor many Muslims. The only people who will be in Heaven are those who accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Those who trust in any other efforts or choose any other way will not be there. It cannot be Jesus and something ... but only Jesus. Jesus alone. Eternal life with God has nothing to do with anything but the acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ as the sole means and the sole way of redemption. The ONLY way to seek the Father is through the Son. The Father rejects any other way.

Amen

listen to what God's word says

1John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."