God Has Not Appointed Us to Wrath !

[Deep_MindQuest]

The Rapture -God Has Not Appointed Us to Wrath -The Time of Jacob's Trouble // Daniel's 70th Week--and Second Coming = Very Different Events! --the Jewish Wedding - Coming For Battle! !!
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Question if God has not appointed us to wraith then why is the antichrist overcoming the people in the below verses !! its because its not the church !! its israel !! the church is RAPTURED BEFORE !!!!!
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God Has Not Appointed Us to Wrath
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36 (KJV)

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" Romans 1:18 (KJV)

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." Ephesians 5:6 (KJV)

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him" Romans 5:9 (KJV)

In the above verses we see a very clear distinction between;
who will taste of God's wrath and who will not.

Paul assures us that God has not appointed us unto wrath ...

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." 1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV)

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.." 1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

This wrath being; God's anger that will be poured out during the Tribulation.

Don't get this confused with the John 16:33 that reads: "...In the world ye shall have tribulation.." This is in reference to the trials and tribulations that this world brings. We certainly have our sufferings here - some more than others. But this is not the same as the Great Tribulation where God pours out His wrath ... That time will be unparalleled by any!

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Matthew 24:21 (KJV)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" Matthew 24:29 (KJV)

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:16-17 (KJV)

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Revelation 11:18 (KJV)

More; Rev 14:10, 14:19 / Rev 15:1, 15:7 / Rev 16:1, 16:19 / Rev 19:15 /
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:: War With The Saints
The Antichrist will be given authority "to make war with the saints, and to overcome them" Revelation 13:7. This could not happen to the Church because Jesus promised that the "gates of hell shall not prevail against it" Matthew 16:18.

Pre-tribbers...believe this to mean; True Christians will be removed from the earth before the tribulation even starts ... and taken to the Father's House. John 14:2

Mid-tribbers...believe they will plucked out right in the nick of time.

Post-tribbers...believe this means God will supernaturally protect Christians during the Tribulation, and pour His wrath out on the unbelievers alone.

However, anyone who undertakes a serious study of Revelation almost immediately would notice that chapters 2 and 3 are dealing specifically/exclusively with the Church. (The Seven Letters to the Seven Churches) Then suddenly after these chapters the Church is noticeably absent!

Claiming Supernatural protection during this time period ... Some try to make themselves the group from Revelation 7:3. This is when an angel descends to earth and 'seals the servants of God.' The number of people sealed are 144,000. These are all from the 12 tribes of Israel. That is what is says - That is what it means ... This group is not the church!

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.av1611.org/666/christian.html Can a Christian receive the Mark of the Beast? No. At least, not before the Rapture--Where is the church after Revelation 3?Revelation 4 begins with: ". . . COME UP HITHER
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Christians have been delivered from the wrath to come.


One very important fact about the tribulation – the tribulation is NOT the wrath of Satan or the antichrist – but the WRATH OF GOD. It’s not Satan persecuting Christians. It’s the wrath of a holy God "judging" this earth, Satan and Israel.

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev. 6:16-17
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Rev. 14:19,20

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. Rev. 15:1

And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. Rev. 15:7

And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. Rev 16:1

And God is NOT going to pour His wrath on His children. How do I know? Because He promised and thank God – God cannot lie. ". . . which God, that cannot lie, promised . . ." Titus 1:2

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thess. 5:5
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Romans 5:9

I love this next "promise". Notice the context of it – "wait for his Son from heaven". Why? To "delivered us from the wrath to come" – the tribulation. When? The rapture BEFORE "the wrath TO COME". What else could it be? If it’s AFTER the tribulation – the wrath has ALREADY come! It’s not hell. We don’t "wait for his Son from heaven" to deliver us from hell – we was delivered from hell when we got saved! It’s got to be the rapture.

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess. 1:10
But notice who will experience the wrath of God.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Ephesians 5:6

For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Col. 3:6

Could the Lord possibly have made it ANY clearer?

God’s children will be delivered form "the wrath of God."And don’t forget, God rescued Noah. . . before the wrath.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Genesis 6:7-8
And don’t forget, God "raptured" Enoch. . . before the wrath.

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God TOOK HIM. Genesis 5:25
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5
God "translated" Enoch. . . ". . . and we [those still alive] shall be changed. . ." 1 Cor.15:52

And do not forget, God "took out" Lot. . .before the wrath.

Remember what the angel told Lot. . .

Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be COME THITHER. . Genesis 19:22
The angel could NOT pour out the wrath of God until Lot "come thither". Halleluah!

Friend, there is NO WAY God is going to "pour out His wrath" on His children

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/449/ Daniel 12:1 and at that time thy people shall be delivered --Jeremiah 30:7 time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. --For God hath not appointed us to wrath
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The Great Tribulation

There are those who believe the Church will go through the Great Tribulation. In exploring this issue, it is essential to distinguish between persecution, which clearly has been the lot of the Church for 19 centuries, and "the Great Tribulation" of eschatological significance. The persecution - and tribulation - of the Church was clearly promised to us:

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -John 16:33

The source of this tribulation is the world and, of course, Satan. However, "the Great Tribulation" of eschatological significance is quite another matter.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. -Matthew 24:21

The context here is clearly Israel.29 Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament:

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book -Daniel 12:1

Note that "thy people will be delivered": the focus of the "Great Tribulation" is Israel. That is why it is called "the time of Jacob's Trouble":

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. -Jeremiah 30:7

Jesus (in the Old Testament) explains:

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me earnestly. 30 -Hosea 5:15

To "return," He must have left His place! The offence referred to is singular and specific: their rejection of Him. In "their affliction" they will ultimately repent and He will respond.31

The Great Tribulation also involves more than the wrath of the world or the wrath of Satan: it involves the indignation and wrath of God. 32 In contrast, the Church has been promised:

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,-1 Thessalonians 5:9

And,

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. -Romans 5:9

And, specifically,

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour [time] of temptation [trial], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. -Revelation 3:10

Peter also emphasizes,

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: -2 Peter 2:9

Here, Peter is using the judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah "as an example,"33 as Jesus also did,34 in which the prior removal of Lot was a precondition before the angels could do their work.35

A complete study of this issue involves careful and diligent study of both the Church (ecclesiology) as well as the eschatology (end time aspects) of the Great Tribulation, which, of course, far exceeds the focus of this brief review. It requires precise definitions of the terms used, and great care to understand how each of the elements of the revealed truth relate to each other.

But the fundamental doctrine of imminence has to be forfeited with any view that requires the Great Tribulation - or any other precedent event - to occur prior to the Rapture.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. -Luke 21:36

Are you going to escape these things that shall come to pass? If so, how? Or are you relying on the notion that the Lord is "delaying His coming?" 36 This could be a very dangerous presumption. Do your homework. It is important.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.rightlydividing.net/rapture_or_wrath.htm RAPTURE OR WRATH? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RAPTURE OR WRATH?


There is confusion today about when the Church will be raptured, in relation to the time called the Great Tribulation. Will it leave before the Tribulation begins, during the middle, or at the end? Now the Church is the body of Christ and is composed of saved, born again, people: those who have trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Will those people have to go through even a part of the Tribulation? What different denominations teach is irrelevant to what God says. The Bible will have the answer.
The next 1,000 years, or so, is clearly outlined in Bible prophecy. The Lord Jesus Christ will return to earth (the Second Advent) and wage war according to Revelation 19:11-21. After that he will reign 1000 years (Revelation 20:4-6). Christ comes back just before the Millennium (1000 years in Latin). The Bible gives several names to the seven years before the Millennium begins. It is called the Tribulation, the time of "Jacob's Trouble," and Daniel's Seventieth Week. This seven years is the last phase of a prophecy spoken of in Daniel.


Daniel 9:24,25,26a
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and uponthe holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an endof sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision andprophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forthof the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore andtwo weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cutoff, but not for himself...

According to these verses there are 69 weeks before Messiah is cut off (seven weeks + threescore and two weeks). A "week" in this case means seven years just as it did in Genesis 29:27, where Jacob had to serve seven years for Rachel. The fulfilling of this prophecy began in Nehemiah 2 in 450 B.C. and the first sixty-nine weeks did not end until Jesus Christ, the Messiah, was crucified, or "cut off," in 33 A.D. That totals 483 years. (If the beginning calendar date, e.g. 450 B.C., is off by a few years, the date of the crucifixion would also be off by the same amount of years. The time between the dates would still be 483 years.) The remaining "week", of seven years, will be fulfilled during the Tribulation, the time of "Jacob's Trouble," not the Church's trouble. Jesus, himself, tells what this time will be like.


Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Verses 29-31 tell of Christ's coming in the clouds after the Tribulation to gather his elect, both the living and the dead. As with the rapture of the Church, the dead will be resurrected and the living will be changed. These will include the 144,000 who were redeemed from the earth during this time (Revelation 14:1-5) and their converts. After this comes a judgment in Matthew 24:42-51. This same judgment is mentioned in Revelation 20:1-4.


Matthew 24:46,47
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shallfind so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.


Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment wasgiven unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Tribulation saints will be raptured just before the Lord comes back for the battle of Armageddon. After which the lost will be appointed their portion (Matthew 24:51) and Satan shall be bound for 1000 years. (Revelation 20:2)

The rapture of the body of Christ takes place before this period of Tribulation. Jesus' bride is waiting for him, not for the wrath of the Tribulation.


I Thessalonians 1:9,10
For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

These verses say that Christians are to be waiting for Jesus and that he has delivered them from the wrath to come. The following verses further verify this.


Matthew 3:7b
...O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

In this verse John rebuked the Jewish Pharisees and implied that if they had believed that Messiah was coming and had been baptized (and thus later received him as Saviour) that they would be fleeing the "wrath" that was to fall on the nation of Israel.

These next two verses tells the Church Age saints that they will not see God's wrath on Israel.


Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


I Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

This last verse records the plea of one experiencing God's wrath during the Tribulation.


Revelation 6:16,17
...Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The Church, Christ's body, has not been appointed to wrath. It will be raptured before the Tribulation begins. Two passages describe this.


I Thessalonians 4:16,17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


I Corinthians 15:51,52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The bodies of living and dead Christian's will be redeemed at this time, since the soul and spirit are redeemed at the time of salvation. According to Romans 8:11-23, at the rapture, the Spirit will quicken the mortal bodies of living saints. This is called the adoption, or the redemption of the body. And, of course, dead saints will be resurrected. All our bodies will be glorified and raptured to heaven!

We will not receive the wrath of the Lamb because we are going to be with him in heaven. We will not receive the wrath of Satan (Revelation 12:12) because we have already overcome him according of I John 3:2-10. We will not come under the wrath of God because according to Isaiah 53, it fell on Jesus Christ when he took our place at Calvary. THEREFORE we are NOT appointed to wrath, or Tribulation, but to salvation, or Rapture!

Also, if Christians go through the Tribulation, when do they appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ mentioned in II Corinthians 5:10? This judgment takes place before the Great White Throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15, which takes place after the Millennium. The Church has already been judged before the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19:7-9, where the saints are arrayed in white linen. This is their righteousness. When Jesus Christ comes back in verse 11 they come with him as the armies of heaven in verse 14. The Church comes out of heaven with him, so they must have been taken up earlier. In I Thessalonians 4 Jesus comes back for the saints, and in Revelation 19 he comes back with the saints.

The chronology of the book of Revelation also shows that the Church must go out before the Tribulation. Revelation 2 and 3 devotionally speak of characteristics of the Church Age. The seven churches picture seven epochs in Church Age history from 33 A.D. to the Tribulation. In Revelation 4:1 a door in heaven opens and John, the beloved apostle, a type of the Church, is taken up to heaven. The word "church" does not appear again. Revelation chapters 5-19 concern the Tribulation. Then in Revelation 19, heaven opens again and the Lord Jesus Christ comes down with his saints. The Church goes out before the Tribulation and comes back after it is finished.

Also, the Tribulation is Daniel's Seventieth week, and is determined on Israel, not the Church.


Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...

Daniel's people were Jews, not Gentile churches. God will not be dealing with the Church during the Tribulation, just as be did not deal with it during the Old Testament. God began dealing with the Church after Israel had rejected the Messiah and had been taken out of the way. When God begins to deal with them again he will take the Church out of the way.

Besides that, if the Church was going to go through the Tribulation we would be looking for the abomination of desolation spoken of in Matthew.


Matthew 24:15a,21a
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel...21 For then shall be great tribulation...

According to Paul we are to look for something different.


Philippians 3:20,21a
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...

We are not looking for the Antichrist or for the Jew to rebuild the temple.


Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Finally, Enoch is a type of the translated Church, and he was taken up to heaven before the flood, which is a type of the Great Tribulation. Noah is a type of believing Israel that will be sealed according to Revelation 7 and taken through the Tribulation protected by God's power. Concerning Enoch the Bible says:


Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The word "translation" is mentioned three times. According to I Corinthians 15:21-24 there are three parts to the First Resurrection."Christ the firstfruits" include Old Testament saints who arose at the time of Christ's resurrection and appeared in Jerusalem according to Matthew 27:51-53. They are also mentioned in Ephesians 4:8-10."They that are Christ's at his coming" is the rapture of the Church Age saints mentioned in I Thessalonians 4."Then cometh the end" speaks of the Tribulation saints raptured in Revelation 7:9-14. More on this shortly.

One attempt to refute the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is to teach that the trumpet of the seventh angel in Revelation 11:15, at the Second Coming of Christ, is the same as the "trump of God" in I Corinthians 15:51. The trumpets are not the same because one is an angel's trumpet and the other is the trump of God. In Joshua 6 there is a type of these seven trumpets in the story of Jericho, the accursed city. Babylon is that accursed city in the Tribulation not the Church Age. Joshua's conquering Jericho is a type of the taking of Babylon in the Tribulation. Joshua's people and seven priests with seven trumpets march around the city seven times on the seventh day and then blow the seven trumpets and shout. The walls fall flat.

The last trump in I Corinthians 15:52 also has a type in the Old Testament. Notice that it is the last trump, not the seventh. It is the last of two trumps. In Numbers 10 God tells Moses to make and use two trumpets.


Numbers 10:1,2
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.

Silver is a picture of redemption (Matthew 27); and the trumpets were blown for the assembly, then the journeying. The first trumpet will be blown in the Rapture for the assembling of the Church and the second for the calling out. For a conclusion we'll look again at the three parts of the first resurrection.


I Corinthians 15:22-24a
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end...

The first part took place when Jesus Christ brought up the Old Testament saints at his resurrection.


Matthew 27:52,53
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Ephesians 4:8
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

This happened at the time of the Passover.

The second part takes place at the rapture of the Church (I Thessalonians 4 and I Corinthians 15) and will coincide with the feast of Pentecost. The third part will occur at the end of the Tribulation, at the feast of Tabernacles spoken of in Zechariah 14:18,19 and will include the Tribulation saints in Revelation 20:4,5. This first resurrection of the righteous does not include anyone who is lost and facing the second death (being thrown into the lake of fire). Jesus tells the Sadducees of this in Matthew 22:30-32 after they try to trick him concerning the resurrection.


Matthew 22:30-32

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

All three parts of the first resurrection will be of the "living" (spiritually alive or saved) only. There is a type of this in Deuteronomy 16:16.


Deuteronomy 16:16
Three times in a year shall all the males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread {Passover - the firstfruits}, and in the feast of weeks {Pentecost - harvest of the Church}, and in the feast of tabernacles...{gleanings of Tribulation saints}

These feasts were scheduled according to the times of harvest in Israel, just as God will harvest the earth in the first resurrection. Every harvest has three crops: The firstfruits; (that ripen early, before the main harvest), then the main harvest; and then the gleanings (that ripen later). So is the first resurrection!

The resurrection of the lost dead (those who will suffer the second death) takes place in Revelation 20:11-13:


Revelation 20:11-12
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

This resurrection occurs at the end of the Millennium, 1000 years after the last part of the first resurrection of the righteous - the gleanings of the Tribulation saints.

Heretical teachings about the Rapture affect the believer in the same way as other heresies. These false teachers try to rob the Christian of several things: their peace and security, by teaching that they can lose their salvation; their hope, by teaching that they will go through the Tribulation; their Saviour, by denying the deity of Christ; and their authority, by trying to destroy the infallibility of the King James Bible. Knowing and believing the truth will give a Christian peace and assurance.

Parts of this booklet were taken from an uncopywrited tract called:



"TRANSLATION OR TRIBULATION"

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org.../rapture.htm#9 Salvation, Not Wrath
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Salvation, Not Wrath
In 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Church Age believers are told that "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." Thus as we look to the future we should expect SALVATION and not WRATH.

What did Paul mean when he spoke of WRATH and what did he mean when he spoke of SALVATION?

(1) WRATH. Believers are not appointed unto wrath. We have been delivered from the wrath that is coining (see 1 Thess. 1:10). Although it is true that believers are delivered from the wrath of God which the ungodly will forever face in the lake of fire, Paul's focus in 1 Thessalonians 5 is upon the "day of the Lord" (verse 2-3), a very specific time when God's wrath will be poured out upon earth dwellers. This period of wrath is also described in Revelation chapters 6-19. It is also known as the greatest time of trouble or tribulation the world has ever known (Matt. 24:21). God has not appointed us to face this time of wrath. Instead we have an appointment to meet the Lord in the air prior to the unleashing of God's fury upon the earth.

(2) SALVATION. People obtain salvation the moment they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31), but the SALVATION spoken of by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 refers to the believer's final salvation when Christ comes for us to complete the great salvation which He began! Thus, instead of facing God's wrath being poured out on the earth, we will enjoy the consummation of our so-great salvation. What a comforting hope (verse 11 and compare 1 Thess. 4:18)!

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.lamblion.com/articles/art...iewpoints8.php The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
I believe the best inference of Scripture is that the Rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. The most important reason I believe this has to do with the issue of imminence.

Over and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told "to be ready" (Matthew 24:44), "to be on the alert" (Matthew 24:42), "to be dressed in readiness" (Luke 12:35), and to "keep your lamps alight" (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persistent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.

Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord's appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord's appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.

For example, if the Rapture is going to occur in mid-Tribulation, then why should I live looking for the Lord's appearing at any moment? I would be looking instead for an Israeli peace treaty, the rebuilding of the Temple, and the revelation of the Antichrist. Then and only then could the Lord appear.

Focus
This raises the issue of what we are to be looking for. Nowhere are believers told to watch for the appearance of the Antichrist. On the contrary, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ. In Titus 2:13 Paul says we are to live "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." Likewise, Peter urges us to "fix our hope completely on the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:13). John completes the apostolic chorus by similarly urging us to "fix our hope on Him" at His appearing (1 John 3:2-3).

Only Matthew speaks of watching for the Antichrist (Matthew 24:15), but he is speaking to the Jews living in Israel in the middle of the Tribulation when the Antichrist desecrates the rebuilt Temple.

Wrath
Another argument in behalf of a pre-Tribulation Rapture has to do with the promises of God to protect the Church from His wrath. As has already been demonstrated, the book of Revelation shows that the wrath of God will be poured out during the entire period of the Tribulation.

The Word promises over and over that the Church will be delivered from God's wrath. Romans 5:9 says that "we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him [Jesus]." 1 Thessalonians 1:10 states that we are waiting "for His Son from heaven... who will deliver us from the wrath to come." The promise is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 — "God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Deliverance
Some argue that God could supernaturally protect the Church during the Tribulation. Yes, He could. In fact, He promises to do just that for the 144,000 Jews who will be sealed as bond-servants at the beginning of the Tribulation (Revelation 7:1-8).

But God's promise to the Church during the Tribulation is not one of protection but one of deliverance. Jesus said we would "escape" the horrors of the Tribulation (Luke 21:3-6). Paul says Jesus is coming to "deliver" us from God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10).

Symbolism
There are several prophetic types that seem to affirm the concept of deliverance from Tribulation.

Take Enoch for example. He was a prophet to the Gentiles who was raptured out of the world before God poured out His wrath in the great flood of Noah's time. Enoch appears to be a type of the Gentile Church that will be taken out of the world before God pours out His wrath again. If so, then Noah and his family are a type of the Jewish remnant that will be protected through the Tribulation.

Another Old Testament symbolic type which points toward a pre-Tribulation Rapture is the experience of Lot and his family. They were delivered out of Sodom and Gomorrah before those cities were destroyed.

The Apostle Peter alludes to both of these examples in his second epistle. He states that if God spared Noah and Lot, then He surely "knows how to rescue the godly from trial and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" (2 Peter 2:4-9).

Another beautiful prophetic type is to be found in the Jewish wedding traditions of Jesus' time. After the betrothal, the groom would return to his father's house to prepare a wedding chamber for his bride. He would return for his bride at an unexpected moment, so the bride had to be ready constantly. When he returned, he would take his bride back to his father's house to the chamber he had prepared. He and his bride would then be sealed in the chamber for seven days. When they emerged, a great wedding feast would be celebrated.

Likewise, Jesus has returned to Heaven to prepare a place for His bride, the Church. When He returns for His bride, He will take her to His Father's heavenly home. There He will remain with His bride for seven years (the duration of the Tribulation). The period will end with "the marriage supper of the Lamb" described in Revelation 19. Thus the seven days in the wedding chamber point prophetically to the seven years that Jesus and His bride will remain in Heaven during the Tribulation.

Revelation
Speaking of Revelation, the structure of that book also implies a pre-Tribulation Rapture in a symbolic sense.

The first three chapters focus on the Church. Chapter 4 begins with the door of Heaven opening and John being raptured from the Isle of Patmos to the throne of God in Heaven. The Church is not mentioned thereafter until Revelation 19:7-9 when it is portrayed as the "bride of Christ" in Heaven with Jesus celebrating the "marriage supper of the Lamb." At Revelation 19:11 the door of Heaven opens again, and Jesus emerges riding a white horse on His way to earth, followed by His Church (Revelation 19:14).

The rapture of the Apostle John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type of the Rapture of the Church. Note that it is initiated by the cry of a voice that sounds like the blowing of a trumpet (Revelation 4:1). Since the Tribulation does not begin until Revelation 6, the rapture of John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type that points to a pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.

Some counter this argument by pointing out that although the Church is not mentioned in Revelation during that book's description of the Tribulation, there is constant mention of "saints" (for example, Revelation 13:7). But that term is not used in the Bible exclusively to refer to members of the Church. Daniel uses it to refer to Old Testament believers who lived long before the Church was established (Daniel 7:18). The saints referred to in the book of Revelation are most likely those people who will be saved during the Tribulation, after the Church has been taken out of the world.

Paul's Assurance
An interesting argument in behalf of the pre-Tribulation timing of the Rapture can be found in 2 Thessalonians. The church at Thessalonica was in a turmoil because someone had written them a letter under Paul's name stating that they had missed the "gathering to the Lord" and were, in fact, living in "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).

Paul attempted to calm them down by reminding them of his teaching that the day of the Lord would not come until after the Antichrist is revealed. He then stated that the Antichrist would not be revealed until a restraining force "is taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-7).

There has been much speculation as to the identity of this restraining force that Paul refers to. Some have identified it as the Holy Spirit. But it cannot be the Holy Spirit because there will be people saved during the Tribulation, and no one can be saved apart from the testimony of the Spirit (John 16:8-11 & 1 John 5:7).

Others have identified the restrainer as human government. It is true that government was ordained by God to restrain evil (Romans 13:1-4). But the governments of the world are in rebellion against God and His Son (Psalm 2), and they are therefore a contributor to the evil that characterizes the world. Furthermore, the Tribulation will not be characterized by a lack of government. Rather, it will feature the first true worldwide government (Revelation 13:7).

In my opinion that leaves only one other candidate for Paul's restrainer — and that is the Church. It is the Church that serves as the primary restrainer of evil in the world today as it proclaims the Gospel and stands for righteousness. When the Church fails in this mission, evil multiplies, as Paul graphically points out in 2 Timothy 3:1-5. Paul says that society in the end times will be characterized by chaos and despair because "men will hold to a form of religion but will deny its power." When the Church is removed from the world, all hell will literally break loose.

Escapism?
The pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture has often been condemned as "escapism." I think this criticism is unjustified. The Bible itself says that Christians are to "comfort one another" with the thought of the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:18). Is it a comfort to think of the Rapture occurring at the end of the world's worst period of war instead of at the beginning?

Regardless of when the Rapture actually occurs, we need to keep in mind that the Bible teaches that societal conditions are going to grow increasingly worse the closer we get to the Lord's return. That means Christians will suffer tribulation whether or not they go into the Great Tribulation. And that means all of us had better be preparing ourselves for unprecedented suffering and spiritual warfare.

If you are a Christian, you can do that on a daily basis by putting on "the full armor of God" (Ephesians 6:13), praying at all times in the Spirit that you will be able to stand firm against the attacks of Satan (Ephesians 6:14-18).

If you are not a Christian, your only hope is to reach out in faith and receive the free gift of God's salvation which He has provided through His Son, Jesus (John 3:16).

[ironcross66106]

Brother I couldn't have said it better myself.
I completely agree.

This is my first post to the forum.

God bless
Ron > A.K.A ironcross66106

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.sgrace.com/messages/joy.html
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OUR JOY IN GOD ROMANS 5: 8-12

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us

Verse 9: much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath
through Him.
Verse 10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His
Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Verse 11: and not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
we have now received the atonements.
Verse 12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so
death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Let us think upon the wonderful theme, or our joy in God. Those who have been brought
by God’s Spirit to believe on Christ putting away our sin by His sacrifice have a joy that
will be with us forever. It is a joy of knowing that we have been saved from our sin. So we
have joy in the God of our salvation, who sent His Son to put away our sin. There is a joy
in God in knowing that He is God and beside Him there is none other. So we know that
we are trusting in the only true God.

There is a joy in God in knowing that He is the Creator of the world and all things that
exist, and of life itself.

There is a joy in God in knowing that He is in charge and that there is no power that can
stay His hand. There is no power that can over rule God. Therefore, those that He has
brought to faith in Christ and Christ’s sacrifice, God declares that they are saved from
their sin and have passed from death unto life.

Truths concerning our joy in God, the only God, Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things
of old; for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like Me.

There is only one God, and there is none like Him. There is none that would give his only
Son to die for those who had sinned against Him. Joy in God because He is able to do
all His pleasure.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that
are not yet done saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.

God tells us about the beginning, how that He made everything that was made and
without Him there was not anything made that was made. John , chapter l, verse 3.

God tells us about the end of man live on earth. How that all those who do not trust in
Christ and His shed blood shall be cast into the lake of fire forever and forever. God also
tells us that all those who trust in Christ and His shed blood shall be with Him in heaven
forever and forever.

There is a joy in God because of the atonement He had his Son Jesus Christ make for
sinners. Romans 5:11 And not only sok but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus
Christ, by Whom we have now received the atonement.

The atonement has already been made when Jesus shed His blood for sinners. It
satisfied God toward sinners who believe and trust the shed blood of Christ as their very
own forgiveness of sins.

There is a joy in God because we that believe are saved from the wrath to come.
Romans 5:9 much more then being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from
wrath through Him.

Those who believe on the sacrifice of Christ and His resurrection are justified. God says
that those who believe are justified from all things, justified from our sins. His promise to
us is that we shall also be saved from the wrath that is yet ot come upon this world.

Joy in God because Jesus obtained eternal redemption for those who believe. Hebrews
9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves but by His own blood, He entered once into
the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Christ obtained eternal
redemption for us by the shedding of His blood for our sins. This brings a joy unto those
who believe.

To those who are under conviction of sin, it is God that has brought you to see that you
are a sinner and that you cannot save yourself, but that your may see by faith that He has

Sent His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ to give His life and shed His blood to take away your
sin. Christ was raised up the third day by the power of God, proving that God was
satisfied with the offering Christ made. May you come to have this joy in God who has set
forth this salvation for sinners in the sacrifice of His Son.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.voiceofthegospel.org/message_sovereign.html while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.justified by His blood, saved from wrath through Him."
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http://www.the-promise.net/copyright_017.htm God's promise is not one of protection for the Church during the Tribulation. It is a promise of deliverance

[Deep_MindQuest]

THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE THEORY--no wraith !!!
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Let us get clearly in mind the nature of the Tribulation, that it is divine “wrath” (11:18; 14:8, 10, 19; 15:1, 7; 16:1, 19 [observe he omits 6:16, 17] and divine “judgment” (14:7; 15:4; 16:7; 17:1; 18:10; 19:2). We know that our blessed Lord bore for us the wrath of God and His judgment; therefore we who are in Him “shall not come into judgment.” The antithesis of I Thess. 5:9 is conclusive evidence: “For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Wrath for others, but salvation for us at the Rapture, “whether we wake or sleep” (vs. 10). 2




C. The scope of the seventieth week. There can be no question that this period will see the wrath of God poured out upon the whole earth. Revelation 3:10; Isaiah 34:2; 24:1, 4-5, 16-17, 18-21, and many other passages make this very clear.



Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Isa 24:16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.

Isa 24:17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.



And yet, while the whole earth is in view, this period is particularly in relation to Israel. Jeremiah 30:7, which calls this period “the time of Jacob’s trouble,” makes this certain. The events of the seventieth week are events of the “Day of the Lord” or “Day of Jehovah.” This use of the name of deity emphasizes God’s peculiar relationship to that nation. When this period is being anticipated in Daniel 9, God says to the prophet, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city” (v. 24). This whole period then has special reference to Daniel’s people, Israel, and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem.



Inasmuch as many passages in the New Testament such as Ephesians 3:1-6; Colossians 1:25-27 make it clear that the church is a mystery and its nature as a body composed of Jew and Gentile alike was unrevealed in the Old Testament, the church could not have been in view in this or any other Old Testament prophecy. Since the church did not have its existence until after the death of Christ (Eph. 5:25-26), until after the resurrection of Christ (Rom. 4:25; Col.3:1-3), until after the ascension (Eph. 1:19-20), and until after the descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost with the inception of all His ministries to the believer (Acts 2), the church could not have been in the first sixty-nine weeks of this prophecy. Since it had no part in the first sixty-nine weeks, which are related only to God’s program for Israel, it can have no part in the seventieth week, which is again related to God’s program for Israel after the mystery program for the church has been concluded.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.the-promise.net/copyright_022.htm Where Is The Church?
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The first three chapters in Revelation are about the church. In chapter 4, the door of heaven opens and John is taken up from the isle of Patmos, to the throne of God which is in heaven. The church is not mentioned anymore until Revelation 19:7-9. Here it is shown as being the "bride of Christ," in heaven, with Jesus, celebrating the "marriage supper of the Lamb."
In Revelation 19:11 the door of heaven opens again, with Jesus riding forth on a white horse on his way back to the earth. In Revelation 19:14, He is followed by His Church. A Church (Bride), that is with Him already.
The translation of John in Revelation 4 is a type of the Translation (Rapture), of the Church. You will notice that it is preceded by a cry of a voice that sounds like the blowing of a trumpet in verse 1. Since the tribulation does not begin until chapter 6 of Revelation, Johns translation is a rapture type, which points to a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church.
Some people argue against this by saying that the Church is not spoken of in Revelation during the books description of the
Tribulation, because there is an ongoing message of "saints (Revelation 13:7. But the term saints is not used exclusively when
talking about the members of the Church. Go to Daniel 7:18. The saints referred to in Revelation are the people who will be saved during the Tribulation. This is after, the Church is taken out of the world.

The Tribulation is going to be a horrific time, like no other ever known to man. God will pour out His wrath upon all the earth. We, as Christian, are promised that we will be spared the "wrath," of God

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html The Last Trumpet Argument !!!
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Confusion over Confusion: 2 Thes 2:1-6
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Confusion over Confusion: 2 Thes 2:1-6
Because Paul, in 2 Thessalonians, said the Antichrist would be revealed before the Day of the Christ, post and pre-wrath adherents frequently try to cite this passage as one that refutes the pre-trib rapture.

To quell the Thessalonian's misunderstanding that they had somehow entered the tribulation, Paul told them the Antichrist must first be revealed. By telling them they had no reason to panic, Paul is clearly disputing the idea that the Thessalonians could someday find themselves facing the tribulation hour.

I'm constantly being irked by Post-trib and pre-wrath folks' consistent, or better yet deliberate, failure to accept the simple fact that the pre-trib doctrine calls for a rapture and a second coming. Because they only glean the prophetic word for one event--the second coming--they're unable to recognize pre-trib rapture passages.

Of course, when you fuse the two advents together, you end up with verses that appear to contradict each other: 1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," and Revelation 13:7, "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

[Deep_MindQuest]

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:18)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:36)

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." (John 5:24)

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.propheticwatchman.com/jan...etter_2002.htm
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SAVED FROM WRATH

For the most part, Christians don't like to talk about it, don't like to hear about it, and don't like to think about it, but the wrath of God is as real as the love of God and the mercy of God. The wrath of God is a fact of history: as attests the destruction of the Philistines and the Ninevites (Zeph. 2:3-5, 13-15). The wrath of God is a reality of the present: "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men" (Rom. 1:18). The wrath of God is an inevitability of the future (Zeph.2:14-15 ).

The question, therefore, is: How can we be saved from it? The answer is simple, exclusive, and precise: We are saved from God's wrath through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Listen to the apostle Paul and judge for yourself: "Among whom also we...were by nature the children of wrath" (Eph.2:3), but, "much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:9).

CHRISTIANS AND THE WRATH OF GOD

Planet Earth is destined to encounter the Day of the Lord's wrath. That is a certainty, not a possibility. The apostle Paul writes: "For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" (1Th.5:2) Though the day will be fearful and terrible, it is one that Christians need not fear.

* For unbelievers, the apostle Paul tells us: "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape" (1 Th. 5:3).

* However, Paul assures believers: "...ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief' (5:4).

* Furthermore, it is not God's intention that His children be subject to His wrath: "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation (deliverance) by our Lord Jesus Christ" (5:9).

* Paul, in fact, goes to great lengths to assure believers that we are protected from God's wrath by telling us that our deliverance from it is a past event. Indeed, it is Jesus: "which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1:10).

Before accepting Christ, we were all destined to suffer God's wrath (Heb. 9:27). However, at the crucifixion, Jesus took upon Himself that wrath, therefore rescuing those who would one day believe upon Him from the wrath that will one day fall upon the earth.

[Deep_MindQuest]

The Sudden Departure Of Believers: The Rapture
When Will It Happen, Where Will You Be When It Does?
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Enoch Walked With God And Was No More: Then Came the Flood


Now we come to what I feel is an intriguing aspect of the nature of God. That is how God dealt with Enoch. Enoch was the seventh generation from Adam, and the third generation prior Noah and the flood. He spent less time on the earth than any of his relatives, by several hundred years. His sudden departure did not involve any wrath or judgment at all. Although the world may have been in an apostate state at that time, Enoch was taken up two generations before the flood.

What caught my attention on the circumstance of Enoch's departure were; no purging, punishment, woe, destruction, etc., but the simplicity that he was pleasing to God because he had faith in God and a relationship with Him. Referring back to Hebrews, remember it was said of Enoch that by his faith he pleased God, and this was his testimony, his witness; others saw it. Then, suddenly, he was not found.

It would seem that he was the only one at this time who had this faith, and thus pleased God; for continuing on the thought of Enoch, the writer of Hebrews said,

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him..." Heb 11:6

The next thing about the Enoch account is also revealing. Continuing on the subject of faith and pleasing God as referenced to Enoch, Hebrew 5:6 continues;

"For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." vs. 6

"Diligently seek" means to have a craving to worship God. This was Enoch. He also believed that God rewards [gives to] those who have a craving to worship God. This is what God requires and this was pleasing to God. Thus, Enoch was removed.

Do we have a craving to worship God? Is our faith solely in God, do we walk with Him? Do we believe He is a rewarder for this? Is the Tribulation period a reward for pleasing God? I find it interesting that the last thing we are aware of that Enoch said before he was taken up, was that the Lord would come with tens of thousands of those who were blameless, pure;

"To execute judgment upon all, and to convict all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." Jude 15

Enoch, the man who had a witness of faith, spoke of the return of the Lord with His own, and judgment; and then is taken. What is interesting is that, despite Enoch preaching this, despite his witness, and despite his being taken up, the people continued in their apostasy, escalating in it, until the flood was suddenly upon them.

This scenario seems to correlate with the Tribulation as it applies to the attitude of the people toward the people of God as seen in Revelation. And the word is being preached again today that; His church will be taken out, and return with him as it says, "To execute upon them the judgment written: this honor have all His saints..." Ps 149:9



Wrath On The World

Paul, in his first letter to the Thessalonians, spoke of the Rapture of the church as noted in the beginning of this article. And speaking of the Rapture he said to the people;

"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, 'Peace and safety', then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child: and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all children of the light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness." 1 Thess 5:1-5

Here is another forewarning. Notice that Paul equates the timing of the Rapture with the sudden destruction of the Tribulation. He says this day will come as a thief in the night to those not of the faith, those who are in darkness. Paul said that that day will come as a thief in the night; but points out that God's people are not of the night, but of a different time, the day. He went on to say that therefore, that time will not overtake [seize, possess] the children of the day. Darkness comes when the light is gone.

Paul then goes on to point out;
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess 5:9

Believers do not have an appointment to this day, but for another appointment, which Paul said, was:

"...to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come." 1 Thess 1:10

What I considered here is; do believers wait for wrath, or do believers wait for Jesus? When you look at verse 10, Paul did not say Jesus will come and deliver us from the wrath to come, he said he already delivered us from it. This tells me the deliverance came before the wrath comes.

A promise was made to the church at Philadelphia because they; held fast to God's word, and did not deny [contradict] the name [authority, character] of Jesus. To this church Jesus said;

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Rev 3:10

Note that this hour comes to all the world, specifically stating it is directed to those living on the earth at that time. If Jesus is going to keep this church from this time, but it is for those who are on the earth; where is this church? One of the most revealing verses of the nature of God concerning His people can be found in Psalm 31. It coincides with the account of Enoch. It says;

"Oh how great is Thy goodness, which though has laid up for them that fear thee; which though hast wrought for them that trust in Thee before the sons of men! Though shalt hide them in the secret of Thy presence from the pride of man: Thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues.

Blessed be the Lord: for He hath showed Me His marvelous kindness in a strong city. For I said in my haste, I am cut off from before Thine eyes... O love the Lord, all ye his saints: for the Lord preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer." Ps 31:19-23

In these verses we see the words describing what God does with His faithful as; preserveth, hide them, keep them, and showing kindness and goodness. So we must ask ourselves if the Tribulation period is goodness and kindness from God. Has He laid up wrath for us?

[Deep_MindQuest]

The Great Tribulation is "the Time of Jacob's Trouble". Jacob is Israel--the JEWS. God is going to judge Israel in her unbelief and pour out His wrath on the nations for attacking Israel. God has NOT appointed Christians to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9). After the message to the churches in Revelation, John is RAPTIRED (Revelation 4:1) and there is NO mention of the church from that verse until the end of the Tribulation (chatper 19) because the church is not THERE. God is boing to take his bride (read Song of Solomon) not BEAT his bride. In the meantime, millions of Christians live under threat of persecution and many thousands suffer severely. That persecution has NOTHING to do with the "Great Tribulation"
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all throughout the Bible there are scriptures tht foretell a pretribulation rapture of the church. The elect spoken of in Revelation is the Jews and tribulation saints that turn to Christ after we leave. alot of people are not realizing exactly how hideous that time will be. We are told in scripture that we are not destined for wrath. The tribulation is God pouring forth his wrath on a Christ rejecting world. To say that we will be here is the same as calling him a liar with his promises. Yes there are those suffering and dying for their faith now but that is man pouring out wrath on man. The tribulation is God pouring His wrath upon man.

[Deep_MindQuest]

I read a great illustration recently that brought this back home to me. It was of the pioneers who were making their way across one of the central states in the U.S. They travelled in wagons pulled by oxen so progress was painfully slow. One day they were horrified to see a line of fire and smoke stretching out across the horizon in front of them. And it was being blown towards them at a great speed! No one knew what to do… they couldn’t outrun it, and there was no river to take shelter in. Finally, one man gave a command to set fire to the ground behind them. Then when that spaced had been burned, the whole company moved back upon it. Some remained fearful saying ‘are you sure that we will be alright?’ But the man replied ‘My child, the flames cannot reach us here for we are standing where the fire has already been!’



What a fantastic picture of those safe in Christ. The fires of God’s judgement burned themselves out on Christ 2000 years ago, and all who are in Christ, are safe forever, for they are standing where the fire has already been. The church will not, and cannot experience the wrath of God for this very reason. He will make sure His bride is safe before unleashing His wrath upon the earth. See 1 Thes 1:10, 5:9, Rom 5:9, Rev 3:10, Psalm 27:5.

[Deep_MindQuest]

YouTube - Rapture Before Tribulation Rapture Before Tribulation by AbaloneKid

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THE HOLY SPIRIT REMAINS IN HIS MINISTRY TO THE LOST AND THE SAVED DURING THE TRIBULATION!
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THE RAPTURE IS FOR US!
It is our Lord's will that His bride, who is the true church, be comforted. (Titus 2:13-15; John 14:1-3). He will call us Home before the Great Tribulation (2 Thess. 2:1-12).

For a full study of this topic please go to:
RAPTURE US
RAPTURE PART 2

A great division exists in the minds of Christians. Will the church go through any part of the "Great Tribulation" or will Christ call us out before that terrible time? This is readily made clear by the following issue IF understood!

The ISSUE is our failure to correctly identify the nation Israel and Jew's in God's program AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME PERIOD, who GO THROUGH The Great Tribulation, and the church, consisting of Jew's and Gentiles, who are the bride of Christ AND RETURN WITH HIM at the end of the Great Tribulation, at the last day called the the great and terrible day of the Lord at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev.19:11-16).

Salvation comes to Jew's during the Tribulation (Rev.7:1-8).

They are NOT members of the church. If the true church were still on earth, they would become a part of His bride, the true church! But they are of a new Israel to be delivered by our Lord at Tribulations end (Joel 2:30-3:21; Rev.19:11-16). A nation formed in a day! (Isaiah 66:7-9).

Let us reason together and see why we will NOT enter into the"Great Tribulation".

THE CHURCH IS NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH!

Romans 5:9
"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

1 Thessalonians 1:10
"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

1 Thessalonians 5:9
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,..."

Nor are we appointed to Judgment.

"Because you have kept the word of my patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation, which will shall upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Rev.3:10

WE WHO ARE SAVED LOOK FOR HIS COMING DAILY! WE WAIT, IN FAITH, FOR HIM. PATIENTLY! 2 Thess.3:5
AND WE WILL INHERIT HIS PROMISES TO US. Heb.6:12

AND NO MAN WILL TAKE OUR CROWN AS WE AWAIT HIM AND NOT THE "TRIBULATION" OF 7 YEARS AND THE APPEARANCE OF anti- christ. Rev.3:11;

Not before the church is removed from the earth can "The Day of the Lord" begin, which starts with this supernatural event, and is followed by the "Great Tribulation" of 7 years. Nor can "the man of sin", to be possessed by Satan, be revealed as on a white horse coming to deliver mankind from it's irresolvable perplexities, until believer's are gone. Satan's time will come for his make believe rule on earth through this man of sin called anti-christ, no longer having a place above, after being thrown out of Heaven by the archangel Michael (Rev.12:7-17).

The time of the calling up of the church we cannot know! It may be close. So let us look for Him ( NOT anti-christ or Great Tribulation) and listen for His mighty voice as we serve here for His glory through His Gospel.

The calling up of His bride, the church of the faithful is the first stage and IS NOT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. That will occur when He RETURNS TO THE EARTH TO DEFEAT ALL HIS ENEMIES.

Contrary to the error of some who teach that the Holy Spirit will not be here during the Great Tribulation, HE WILL, to save, seal, comfort and empower Jewish and Gentile believers in this most dreadful time in earths history.

YouTube - Rapture Before Tribulation~The ABALONEKID Rapture Before Tribulation~The ABALONEKID


RAPTURE READY?*

Written and Sung by The Abalone Kid
It is our Lord's will that His bride, who is the true church, be comforted. (Titus 2:13-15; John 14:1-3). He will call us Home before the Great Tribulation (2 Thess. 2:1-12).

For a full study of this topic please go to:
RAPTURE US
RAPTURE PART 2

A great division exists in the minds of Christians. Will the church go through any part of the "Great Tribulation" or will Christ call us out before that terrible time? This is readily made clear by the following issue IF understood!

The ISSUE is our failure to correctly identify the nation Israel and Israelites in God's program AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME PERIOD, who GO THROUGH The Great Tribulation, and the church, consisting of Israelites and Gentiles, who are the bride of Christ AND RETURN WITH HIM at the end of the Great Tribulation, at the last day called the the great and terrible day of the Lord at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev.19:11-16).

Salvation comes to Israelites during the Tribulation (Rev.7:1-8).
They are NOT members of the church. If the true church were still on earth, they would become a part of His bride, the true church! But they are of a new Israel to be delivered by our Lord at Tribulations end (Joel 2:30-3:21; Rev.19:11-16). A nation formed in a day! (Isaiah 66:7-9).

Let us reason together and see why we will NOT enter into the"Great Tribulation".
THE CHURCH IS NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH!
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

YouTube - My Father's House The ABALONEKID My Father's House The ABALONEKID

RECITAL OF THE GREATEST PROMISE OF GOD OUR SAVIOR

"Don't let your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe in me. In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I'll come again, and receive you unto myself, so that where I am, so shall you be." JOHN 14:1-3

Our eternal security and blessed hope lies in Christ and Our Father, not ourselves nor the world system.
"Behold, I come quickly" (Rev.22:7).
"Looking unto Jesus, the author and FINISHER of our faith..."(Heb.12:2: Emphasis mine)
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you FAULTLESS before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,..." (Jude 24: My emphasis).
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior, Jesus Christ,who gave himself for us that he might redeem us from ALL INIQUITY, and purify unto himself a people of his own, zealous of good works. THESE THINGS SPEAK...with all authority..." (Titus 2:14-15: Emphasis mine).
"But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Cor 15:57
AND HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God"(Rom.8:14).

KNOWN BY YOU, BORN FOR YOU, CALLED BY YOU, CONVICTED, FORGIVEN, BORN AGAIN, WE LIVE THROUGH YOU, SINNERS WASHED BY YOU DAILY, AND WE GIVE YOU, LORD, THE PRAISE AND THE GLORY
Related Scripture.
Do not be troubled Jn.14:1-3
Believe Heb.10:39; 11:6
My fathers house 1 Ki.8:30
A place for us Ps.23:6
With Christ 1Thess.4:13-18