2 DISTINCT PHASES of The 2nd COMING of CHRIST

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.gotquestions.org/differen...nd-Coming.html "What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: "What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?"



Answer: The Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a Scripture is referring to the Rapture or the Second Coming. However, in studying end times Bible prophesy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.



The Rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The Rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected, and along with believers who are still living will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His Millennial Kingdom. The Second Coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.



The important differences between the Rapture and Second Coming are as follows:



(1) At the Rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

(2) The Second Coming occurs after the great and terrible Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

(3) The Rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; 5:9). The Second Coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

(4) The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The Second Coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

(5) The Second Coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The Rapture is imminent, it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).



Why is it important to keep the Rapture and the Second Coming distinct?



(1) If the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

(2) If the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent…there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).

(3) In describing the Tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the Tribulation, God will again turn His primary attention on Israel (Romans 11:17-31).



The Rapture and Second Coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the Rapture is the return of Christ to the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The Second Coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the Tribulation to an end and to defeat the antichrist and his evil world empire.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.rapturealert.com/raptureversuscoming.html The Rapture vs. The Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many questions asked concerning the difference between the Rapture and the Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ. To demonstrate the differences between the two, I've prepared the following questions with scriptural references to each.
Where is the Church found in each event?

At the Rapture, Jesus comes FOR His Church. (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:14-17)
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus comes WITH His Church. (Zech 14:5, Col 3:4, Jude 14, Rev 19:14)
Where does Jesus appear in each event?


At the Rapture, Christians are caught up to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thess 4:13-18)
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus' feet touch the earth (Zech 14:4, Rev:19:11-21)
Who is taken and who is left behind?

At the Rapture, Christians are taken first and unbelievers are left behind. (1 Thess 4:13-18)
At the Glorious Appearing, the wicked are taken first, but the righteous (the tribulation saints) are left behind. (Matt 13:28-30)
What will Jesus do at each event?

At the Rapture, Jesus will gather His Bride, the Church, unto Himself in preparation of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. (Rev. 19:6-9)

At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus will execute judgment on the earth and establish His Kingdom. (Zech 14:3-4, Jude 14-15, Rev 19:11-21)
When does the Marriage Supper of the Lamb take place?

The Marriage Supper of the Lamb takes place in Heaven AFTER the Rapture of the Church. (Revelation 19:6-9)
War on earth comes AFTER the Marriage Supper of the Lamb at the Glorious Appearing when the King of kings and Lord of lords lays the smackdown on evil! (Revelation 19:11-21)
How long will each event be?

The Rapture will happen in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (Blink- it's over!). (1 Cor 15:52)
The Glorious Appearing will be a slow coming. Everyone will see Jesus coming with great power and great glory! (Zech 12:10, Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7)
Who will see Jesus at each event?

At the Rapture, only those who are looking for Him (Christians) will see Him. (1 John 3:2, 1 Cor 15:52)
At the Glorious Appearing, every eye will see Him and those who have rejected Him will wail.(Rev. 1:7)
Will Jesus shout?

At the Rapture, Jesus will descend from Heaven with a shout (calling for the saints at the resurrection). (1 Thess 4:16)
At the Glorious Appearing, no shout is mentioned, although the Lord does slay the wicked with the sword of His mouth. (Rev. 19:11-21)
Will there be a resurrection at each?

At the Rapture, a resurrection will take place. (1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:51-54)
At the Glorious Appearing, there is no resurrection spoken of. (Zech. 12:10, Zech.14:4-5, Rev 1:7, 19:11-21)

What about the timing of each event?

The Rapture can happen at any time...maybe even now which is why we are to be WATCHING for the return of Jesus Christ! (Rev 3:3, 1 Thess 5:4-6)
The Glorious Appearing will occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation period. (Dan 9:24-27, Matt 24:29-30, 2 Thess 2:3-8)
What role will the angels of Heaven have?

At the Rapture, no angels are sent to gather the Church.
At the Glorious Appearing, angels will be sent to gather people together for judgment. (Matt 13:39, 41 & 49, Matt. 24:31, Matt. 25:31, 2 Thess 1:7-10)
What about the resurrected bodies?

At the Rapture, those who died in Christ will return with Jesus to recover their resurrected bodies. (1 Thess 4:14-16)
At the Glorious Appearing, Christians will return with Jesus already in their resurrected bodies riding on white horses. (Rev 19:11-21)
White horse for Jesus or no white horse for Jesus?

At the Rapture, Jesus doesn't return riding a white horse.
At the Glorious Appearing, Jesus will return riding a white horse. (Rev 19:11)
What is the message each event will bring for mankind?

The Rapture will bring with it a message of hope and comfort. (1 Thess 4:18, Titus 2:13, 1 John 3:3)
The Glorious Appearing will bring with it a message of judgment. (Joel 3:12-16, Mal 4:5, Rev 19:11-21)

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://rbc.gospelcom.net/ds/q1204/page2.html WHY WOULD HE RETURN AGAIN AND AGAIN?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rbc.org/ds/q1204/page2.html WHY WOULD HE RETURN AGAIN AND AGAIN? !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The main evidence for a two-part return of Christ revolves around (1) God's distinct plans for Israel and the church and (2) prophecies that describe the time of Christ's return as being both knowable and unknowable. The reasoning might seem to be a little involved at points, but the main point to keep in mind is that Scripture teaches us to be always ready for the Lord's return. The following pages will explain why that seems to signal a two-part return of Christ--one for the church and one for Israel.
The Distinction Between Israel and the Church. Basic to this discussion is our belief that the first of these two returns is for the rescue and removal of the church (1 Cor. 15:51-53; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 5:9). The second relates to God's plan for Israel (Ezek. 36:16-38; Jer. 23:5-6; Rev. 19:11-21). Both have different places in God's prophetic program.

Even though both share a common spiritual ancestry that can be traced back to the faith of Abraham (Gal. 3:7), they have different places in God's world plan. Israel represents a nation with whom God has made very earth-centered and geographically related promises (Is. 2:1-6; Ezek. 36--37). The church, on the other hand, is a multinational organism made up of all true believers in Christ--Jew or Gentile. The church is at the center of God's program until "the fullness of the Gentiles" is fulfilled (Rom. 11:25) and has been given a hope that is to be realized more in heaven than on earth (1 Thess. 4:13-18).

The distinction between Israel and the church is basic to understanding prophecy. Many have called it the key to unlocking what the Bible says about the future. When the two are kept distinct, many prophetic details fall into place. Then it becomes evident that some predictions refer to the Lord's return for the church, while others relate to His return as the King and Deliverer of Israel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.duluthbible.org/files/res..._00_rokser.pdf Distinguishing the 2 phases of Christs second coming

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/stud...twocomings.htm Bible Prophecy and the Return of Jesus- The Mystery of the Two Comings!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Promise of the Messiah


The Old Testament is packed with references to a coming Messiah. If you asked any Jew familiar with the Old Testament what would characterise the coming of the Messiah, they would probably reply that the Messiah would rule from Jerusalem, bringing peace and security to Israel. Jesus, they would say, clearly didn’t bring this peace to Israel so therefore He cannot be the Messiah. The religious Jews are, to this day, still waiting for their Messiah to come.


So are they right? Well, concerning what characterises the coming of the Messiah they are of course… half right! The Bible presents two pictures of what the coming of the Messiah would be like. One, a conquering King; the other, a suffering servant. Jewish rabbis of old even recognised this and said that the Messiah would come in the character of two prominent Old Testament characters – David and Joseph. They are known as Ha Moshiach Ben David (Messiah the Son of David) and Ha Moshiach Ben Yoseph (Messiah the Son of Joseph). Some Rabbis even said that there would be two Messiahs, which they saw as necessary to fulfil the contradictory pictures presented in the two character mentioned. Let’s look at a couple of verses which show the character of Messiah in these two roles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible-studies.cephasministry....s_rapture.html THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND COMING: AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION by Thomas Ice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Differences between the two events are harmonized naturally by the pre-trib position, while other views are not able to account comfortably for such distinctions. (Notice the graphic on page four that lists passages that speak of the rapture and those referring to the second coming.)


RAPTURE AND SECOND COMING CONTRASTS


Rapture/Translation 2nd Coming/ Estab. Kingdom

1 Translation of all believers 1 No translation at all

2 Translated saints go to 2 Translated saints return to

heaven earth

3 Earth not judged 3 Earth judged & righteous-

ness established

4 Imminent, any-moment, 4 Follows definite predicted

signless signs including tribulation 5 Not in the Old Testament 5 Predicted often in Old

Testament

6 Believers only 6 Affects all men

7 Before the day of wrath 7 Concluding the day of

wrath

8 No reference to Satan 8 Satan bound

9 Christ comes for His own 9 Christ comes with His own

10 He comes in the air 10 He comes to the earth

11 He claims His bride 11 He comes with His bride

12 Only His own see Him 12 Every eye shall see Him

13 Tribulation begins 13 Millennial Kingdom begins



John Walvoord concludes that these "contrasts should make it evident that the translation of the church is an event quite different in character and time from the return of the Lord to establish His kingdom, and confirms the conclusion that the translation takes place before the tribulation."3

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.focusonjerusalem.com/pre-...ibrapture.html "behold a pale horse-- 2 comings--"Blessed hope--secret rapture--great trib--These scriptures could therefore refer only to a pre-trib rapture !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.khouse.org/articles/1995/35/ The Great Snatch? by Chuck Missler
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Pre-Tribulation View
The Rapture is characterized in the New Testament as a "translation coming" (1 Corinthians 15:51- 52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) in which the Lord comes for His church, taking her to His Father's House (John 14:3). However, at Christ's Second Coming with His saints, He descends from heaven to set up His Messianic Kingdom on earth (Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:27-31). The differences between the two events are harmonized naturally by the "pre-trib" position, while other views are not able to ac count comfortably for such differences.

A New Testament Mystery

Paul speaks of the Rapture as a "mystery" (1 Corinthians 15:51-54), that is, a truth not revealed until its disclosure by the apostles (Colossians 1:26). The Second Coming, on the other hand, was predicted in the Old Testament (Daniel 12:1-3; Zechariah 12:10; 14:4). In fact, the oldest prophecy uttered by a prophet was given before the flood of Noah and was of the Second Coming! It was given by Enoch, quoted in Jude 14-15.

The movement of the believer at the Rapture is from earth to heaven; at the Second Coming it is from heaven to earth. At the Rapture, the Lord comes for His saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16), while at the Second Coming the Lord comes with His saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13).

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/rapt2com.htm TWO DISTINCT PHASES OF THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST TWO DISTINCT PHASES OF THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
A Comparison Between the Rapture (Pre-tribulational Coming) and the Second Advent (Post-tribulational Coming)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. TIME
RAPTURE--before the tribulation (Revelation 3:10). The church will be kept out of that hour or time of testing which will come upon the whole world. See our booklet, Will the Church Go Through the Tribulation? (50¢).
SECOND ADVENT--after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30; Revelation 19:11-16).
2. QUICKNESS
RAPTURE--in a "moment" (Greek-"atom," a split-second, literally "uncut, indivisible," we divide and cut time into years and months and days and hours and minutes and seconds, but the smallest measure of time is an "atom" of time which we might call a split-second), in the blinking on an eye (1 Cor. 15:52). It is very sudden. It will happen before people will realize it is happening (even as it was with Enoch, see Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5). An example of a man being raptured away suddenly so as to be seen no more is found in Acts 8:39 (where the Greek word for rapture, harpazo, is used).
SECOND ADVENT--slow enough for people to realize and see what is happening (Matthew 24:27; Rev. 1:7; Psalm 2:2; Rev. 19:19). The second coming of Christ to the earth will be visible and obvious to all. No one will miss it.
3. DATE (THE DAY ON WHICH IT WILL TAKE PLACE)
RAPTURE--UNKNOWN DAY. The Lord Jesus will surely come for His Church (John 14:3) but we do not know when (compare 1 John 2:28 and 3:2 where the subjunctive mood is used indicating that while the fact of His coming is sure, the time of His coming is unsure). The rapture is imminent which means that He may come at any time. See Allen Beechick's discussion of the UNKNOWN DAY in the book The Pretribulation Rapture).
SECOND ADVENT--KNOWN DAY. The date of the second coming can be calculated to the very day. It will occur 2520 days (7 years, or 84 months, each month made up of 30 days) from the time that Antichrist makes a treaty with Israel (Daniel 9:27) and it will occur 1260 days (3½ years) from the time of the abomination of desolation (Matt. 24:15). See Revelation 11:2,3; 12:6,14; 13:5; 2 Thess. 2:8 (Antichrist destroyed at 2nd coming). Of course, this "known day" cannot be known or calculated by anyone until the treaty is signed (Dan. 9:27).
4. PRECEDING SIGNS
RAPTURE--NONE (Tit. 2:13; Rev. 22:20; etc.). He may come for His Church at any time and nothing needs to be fulfilled before He comes. The only thing we are waiting for is the completion of the church (Matt. 16:18; Rom. 11:25), and only God knows when this will be.
SECOND ADVENT--MANY (Matthew 24:3-28). There is much that must be fulfilled before Christ returns to the earth (such as all the events in Revelation 6-18).
ILLUSTRATION: The rapture can be likened to Thanksgiving (a holiday without signs) and the second advent can be likened to Christmas (which is preceded by all kinds of signs). When you see the signs of Christmas (decorations, lights, trees, etc.) then you can be sure that Thanksgiving will take place at any time. If Christmas is near then Thanksgiving must be even nearer!

5. VISIBILITY
RAPTURE--Christ seen only by the church (1 Thess. 4:17; 1 John 3:2).
SECOND ADVENT--Christ seen by every eye (Rev. 1:7; Matthew 24:24-27).
6. LOCATION
RAPTURE--in the air (1 Thess. 4:17).
SECOND ADVENT--on the earth (Zech. 14:4; Acts 1:11).
7. ASSOCIATED JUDGEMENT
RAPTURE--the judgment seat of Christ (2 Tim. 4:1,8; 1 Pet. 1:7).
SECOND ADVENT--destruction of the wicked armies (Rev. 19:17-19) and the judgment of living nations (Matthew 25:31-46).
8. IDENTITY OF THOSE REMOVED FROM THE EARTH AND THOSE REMAINING ON THE EARTH
RAPTURE--Believers are removed; unbelievers remain (1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-53; John 14:3).
SECOND ADVENT--Unbelievers are removed; believers remain (Matthew 24:37-41 and Luke 17:34-37). See Matthew 24:38 where the unbelieving world in Noah's day was taken away in judgment.
9. PURPOSE OF CHRIST'S COMING
RAPTURE--to receive His bride (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17).
SECOND ADVENT--to receive His kingdom (Luke 19:22; Rev. chapters 19-20)
10. THE BODIES OF LIVING BELIEVERS
RAPTURE--church age believers are raised (those who have died) and are translated and "changed" (those who are living) with the result that they have immortal, resurrection bodies (1 Cor. 15:52-53; 1 Thess. 4:17).
SECOND ADVENT--believers who survive the tribulation enter the kingdom in natural bodies (Matthew 25:23), and these believers will eventually bear children and re-populate the earth.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...a/dispch13.htm DISCERNING AND DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN...
THE TWO COMINGS OF CHRIST
THE FIVE JUDGMENTS and
THE TWO RESURRECTIONS http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...cy/prophe9.htm The Second Coming Of Christ

[Deep_MindQuest]

THE RAPTURE OF ALL TRUE BELIEVERS IS A FANTASTIC FACT!
-----------------------------------------------------------
The Rapture
by Phillip Goodman

The Rapture (Latin for “caught up”) of all true believers in Jesus Christ is a “fantastic” FACT taught in such passages as 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. All saved individuals who are alive at the time of the Rapture will be changed into immortal beings in the instant they are caught up along with the newly resurrected dead Christians “to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.” (1 Thes.





4:17) But is the Rapture of believers to meet Christ IN THE AIR and the Second Coming of Christ TO THE EARTH the same event?

THE CHRONOLOGY OF PROPHECY IS THE KEY

We do not know exactly when the Second Coming will occur. Nor do we know when the Rapture will occur. We are told, regarding the coming of Christ, that we cannot know the day or the hour. (Mat.





24:36)

However, the Bible lays out a basic chronology, or sequence of events, that will occur in the last days. And from these it is clear that the Second Coming of Christ TO THE EARTH will not occur until after the arrival of the Antichrist, until after the Great Tribulation, and until after the War of Armageddon.







Amazingly, this same sequence of events forces us to place the timing of the Rapture before the Tribulation time. Here’s why.






Believers are commanded to constantly be on the alert (Mat. 24:42) and to await eagerly (expect any-moment ) the appearing of Christ (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20).





We are told to be watching because we do not know if He will come:

(1) in the evening
(2) at midnight
(3) at cockcrowing
(4) in the morning
(Mark 13:35) But you can’t say that about the Second Coming, because it can only come after the arrival of the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and Armageddon.







That means the Rapture IN THE AIR is a different event than the Second Coming of Christ TO THE EARTH. Therefore, if we follow our Lord’s command to always be “looking for the blessed hope” (Titus 2:13), then this means that Christ could come IN THE AIR at any moment before the arrival of the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, Armageddon and His Second Coming TO THE EARTH.







This is called the imminent (any moment), pre-tribulation (before the Tribulation period) Rapture. That is why we are admonished NOT to say “My master will be a long time in coming.” He will come on a day when we do “not expect him.





” (Luke 12:45-46)

ASK YOURSELF: ARE YOU LOOKING FOR CHRIST NOW?
Think of it this way.







(1) Are you following the Bible’s command to wait and watch for the coming of our Lord, or

(2) are you waiting and watching FIRST for the coming of the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, Armageddon, AND ONLY THEN the coming of our Lord?

If you are doing the latter, then you believe that the Rapture is a post-tribulation event, and you can put your “watching” on hold, and say “Not yet! My master will be a long time in coming.” But if you are watching for Jesus today, then you have acknowledged that Jesus Christ could come at any time, “at an hour when you do not think He will” (Mat. 24:44), and that the Rapture is a pre-tribulation event.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www3.telus.net/thegoodnews/re...therapture.htm Let us notice that just as the first coming of our Lord was literal, and just as the coming of the Holy Spirit was literal, as the second coming of Christ will be a literal coming. So many want to take these prophetic verses symbolically or figuratively; but Jesus said, "I will come again."
The coming of our Lord will be in two stages. Unless we distinguish these two stages of Christ's return there will be much confusion in our study of the prophetic scriptures.

The first stage of our Lord's coming will be in Love, Grace and Mercy: the second will be in Judgement. The first stage will be in the air: the second will be to the earth. The first stage will not be seen by the world until after it happens: the second will be seen by every eye. The first stage will be Christ coming as "the Morning Star" (Revelation 22:16); the second will be His appearing as "the Son of Righteousness"(Malachi 4:2). At the first stage He comes FOR His saints: at the second He comes WITH His saints (John 14:3: Jude 14).

No signs remain to be fulfilled before the first stage. Many signs are to be fulfilled before the second stage. The first stage is Christ coming as our Saviour (Hebrew 9:28): the second is His coming as King (Revelation 19:11,16). The first stage will be followed by the Judgement (Bema or Reward) Seat of Christ, when believers will be rewarded according to their works (2 Corinthians 5:10) the second will be followed by the Throne of Glory upon which shall sit the Son of Man to judge the nations of the earth.

Actually, the first coming of Christ was also in two stages. It was at first secret and then public. The birth of Christ was seen and known by few people like the shepherds, wise men, Anna, and Simeon. The ungodly rulers and unbelieving people did not see Him: but after thirty years He was publicly manifested. So it will be when He comes again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: i dont agree with 1 part of this site that claims if you dont believe in the pretrib that you could be left behind.. but otherwise its a very well done easy to understand site

[Deep_MindQuest]

JVI Prophecy Bible, page(s) 83-84:

Quote:
RAPTURE
There are two stages or phases within the process of the Second Coming--the Rapture and the Revelation--and these are separated by a seven-year period of time.
The Rapture is the next occurrence on God's calendar and is the literal, visible, and bodily return of Christ in the heavenlies. He shall return as he left (Acts 1:9-11). One can easily know now He departed by studying Luke 24:39. He had a new resurrected body of flesh and bones--a body that could be seen, touched, and fed (vss. 41-43). When He returns in the heavenlies, all believers, dead and living, will also be taken bodily to meet Him in the clouds. We shall be changed as this mortal body puts on immortality and is transformed to be like Jesus' body (I Corinthians 15:51-54; Psalm 17:15; I John 3:2). This happens in a moment, in "the twinkling of an eye."
This event ends the Church Age and ushers in the Tribulation period. The Rapture of the Church involves the resurrection of the Christian dead as well as the exit from earth of all believers living at that time (I Thessalonians 4:13-18). Regarding the Christian dead, the Bible teaches that the body is asleep in one place (the grave) whereas the soul is alive in another place (heaven). To be "absent from the body" is to be present with the Lord (II Corinthians 5:8). When Christ returns at the Rapture, He brings those that sleep (are dead) with Him (I Thessalonian 4:14). How can He bring the dead with Him and still come for the dead (I Thessalonians 4:16)? The dead are in two places! The souls and spirits are with the Lord, but their bodies are in the grave. Hence Christ brings the dead (souls and spirits) with Him so that they may be reunited with their bodies. That is why the dead in Christ rise first.
The return of Christ for His Church is a signless and always imminent event. Even the New Testament writers expected the Lord's return at any moment (Phillipians 3:20). All signs of the Lord's return have to do with the coming of Christ to set up His kingdom. They are only indicators of the approaching Rapture because that event precedes the establishment of the kingdom by seven years...infact, we must be raptured so as to return with Him. The moment the Antichrist signs the seven-year peace pact the Tribulation period will begin and a timetable will be evident. Date-setting will now be conclusive and Christ's return will no longer be imminent. It will be exactly 84 months or 2,520 days until Christ returns to establish His kingdom. The Rapture must precede the Tribulation Hour.
The Church is not to be the recipient of wrath. When one considers God's purpose for the Tribulation, it is difficult to place the Bride of Christ into such a horrendous scene. Why should Christ's Bride suffer the judgment of the seven seals, seven trumpets, and the seven vials found in Revelation 6,8,9,11,15,16, when the Church cannot be found beyond the third chapter of the Book of Revelation? No, the Tribulation Hour is primarily a time of judgment upon a Christ-rejecting, God-rejecting world--both Jew and Gentile (Ezekiel 20:37-38; Micah 5:15). Paul assured the Thessalonian Christians that they would not go through the Tribulation (I Thessalonians 5:9). Although the Church is not all it should be, the world is better because the Church is present. The Holy Spirit, working through Christians, holds back the tide of evil sweeping the world. When His influence in this manner is removed at the Rapture, think of the wickedness that shall follow!
During the Tribulation period on earth, the raptured Christians have an appointment with Christ at the Judgment Seat of Christ (II Corinthians 5:19; Romans 14:10-12).
The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible. It was coined from the Latin rapio or rapere to portray the experience of being "snatched away." This is what is going to happen one day as soon as the people of God disappear from the earth and immediately meet Christ to stand before the Judgment Seat.

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.myershome.com/GodlyGrace/fundamentals.htm The Scriptures:
Inspired: 2 Tim. 3:12-16, 2 Pet. 1:19-21, 1 Thes. 2:13, Mark 4:15, John 5:39
Preserved: Psa. 12:6-7, Psa. 119:89, Psa. 138:2, Pro. 30:5-6, Matt. 5:18, Matt. 24:35
Parts Omitted in NIV: Mark 9:44 & 46, Matt. 18:11, Acts 8:37, Acts 7:59, Rom. 1:3, Rom 11:6,
Eph. 3:14, 1 John 5:7 & 13, Col. 1:14
Parts Changed in NIV: Psa. 12:6-7, Psa. 9:17, Job 26:6, Isa. 14:12, Isa. 57:9, Dan. 3:25, Dan. 11:38,
Acts 3:13 & 26, Phil. 2:6, Luke 2:33 & 43, 2 Cor. 2:15, Rev. 22:19
Salvation in All Versions: Rom. 3:23, Rom. 6:23, John 3:3, John 14:6, Rom. 10:9-11, Rev. 3:20

The True God:
Deut. 4:35 & 39, 1 Kings 8:60, Psa. 46:10, Psa. 83:18, Isa. 37:16 & 20, Isa. 44:6, Isa. 43:10-12,
Isa. 45:5-6 & 21, 1 Tim. 1:7, Jude 1:25, 1 John 5:20

The Trinity: (The One True God is expressed in 3 Personages)
1 John 5:7, Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 1:1, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 14:16-17 & 20 & 23, 1 Tim 3:16

The Deity of Jesus Christ:
Isa. 43:10-11cp, John 4:42, Titus 1:3-4, Titus 2:10-11, Pro. 30:4-5, Titus 3:4-6, John 14:1-11,
John 1:1-14cp, 1 Tim. 3:16, Isa. 9:6-7, John 20:28, John 10:30 & 38, Rom. 1:3-4, Phil. 2:6,
Rev. 1:5-8, Heb. 1:1-3, 1 John 5:7, Col. 2:9

The Atonement: (At-one-ment)

Need: Rom. 3:10 & 23, Rom. 5:12, Rom. 6:23, Job 15:14 & 16, Jer. 17:9, Eph. 2:1-3, Rev. 21:8,
Mark 7:20-23
Provision: Rom. 5:8, 1 Cor. 15:3-4, 1 Pet. 2:24, 1 Pet 3:18, John 1:29, John 3:16, Eph. 1:6-7, Eph. 2:16-18
Means: (Grace without works – simple faith) Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 11:6, Acts 15:11, Acts 26:17-18,
Rom. 3:28, Rom. 4:5, Gal. 2:16, Gal. 3:26, John 1:12, John 3:16 & 36, John 5:25, John 6:47,
John 8:24, John 11:25-27, Acts 10:43, Rom. 10:9-10, Rom. 7:15-25
Length: (Eternity) 1 John 5:11-13, Eph. 1:12-14, Eph. 4:30, Phil. 1:6, 1 Thes. 5:23-24, 1 Pet. 1:5,
2 Cor. 5:1, John 3:15-16 & 36, John 5:24, John 6:47, 1 Tim 1:15-16
(What if you quit believing?) 2 Tim. 2:13, Rom. 8:35-39, John 10:27-29

The Return of Christ – Second Advent or coming: (2 parts)

Rapture: Coming for His saints before the Tribulation period – Rev. 1:1, Rev. 4:1, 1 Thes. 4:13-17,
1 Thes. 5:9, 1 Thes. 1:10, Rom. 5:9-10, 1 Cor. 15:51-53, Acts 1:11
Advent: After Tribulation – Matt. 24:29-30, Rev. 1:7, Mark 13:24-26, Acts 1:10-11, Rev. 19:11-16

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.ankerberg.org/Articles/bi...y/BP1204W1.htm Does the Bible Teach Two Separate Comings
of the Lord?
by Dr. Renald Showers

Does the New Testament actually at least infer, if not outright teach, two future comings of the Lord, one before the Tribulation period to rapture the Church; the other one after the Tribulation period to crush Satan and set up God’s Kingdom rule?

I personally believe that the Scriptures do teach that very strongly, by inference at least. Let me point out to you perhaps one or two reasons why I’m convinced of that. First, when you look at the order of things that the Bible teaches that will take place at the Rapture and then you look at the order of the things that the Bible teaches will take place at the Second Coming of Christ and after the Tribulation period, you will find that the order of things between those two comings of the Lord are just the opposite of each other. What do I mean by that?

Well, we’ve already seen from, for example, 1 Thessalonians 4 that when the Rapture takes place, it is the believers who will be removed from the earth in blessing to meet the Lord in the air and to go back with Him to the Father’s house in Heaven.

So at the Rapture, believers are removed from the earth and by implication the unbelievers are left here. But when you go to passages such as Matthew 24, which are describing the Second Coming of Christ immediately after the Tribulation period, you have just the reverse order of that being taught, namely, that at the Second Coming of Christ it’s the unbelievers who are alive on the earth at that time who are going to be removed from the earth but removed from the earth in judgment, and it’s the believers who will be alive on the earth at that time who will be left here to go into the next period of world history.

So, at the Rapture it will be the reverse order of things at the Second Coming of Christ.

[DavidTR]

http://www.ankerberg.org/Articles/bi...y/BP1204W1.htm Does the Bible Teach Two Separate Comings
of the Lord?
by Dr. Renald Showers

EXTRACT:
Does the New Testament actually at least infer...
...if not outright teach...
I personally believe that the Scriptures do teach that very strongly, by inference at least.
...and by implication the unbelievers are...

Articles written in such a way as this sit uncomfortably with me for solid Biblical reasons.

Be aware that to apply an 'inference' or an 'implication' as keys in any decision making process it is essential to make an 'Interpretion'.

Irrespective of the particular subject under discussion (from football to physics) this is a simple and unrefuteable fact - Inference and Implication require to be interpreted.

Interpretation carries bias.

My advice - Ignore articles that do - especially concerning prophecy.

II Peter 1.20

Grace and Peace

D

[Chris]

Articles written in such a way as this sit uncomfortably with me for solid Biblical reasons.

Be aware that to apply an 'inference' or an 'implication' as keys in any decision making process it is essential to make an 'Interpretion'.

Irrespective of the particular subject under discussion (from football to physics) this is a simple and unrefuteable fact - Inference and Implication require to be interpreted.

Interpretation carries bias.

My advice - Ignore articles that do - especially concerning prophecy.

II Peter 1.20

Grace and Peace

D

I'm not sure what you are trying to say David? What is your rapture timing position?

[mattfivefour]

Interpretation carries bias.

My advice - Ignore articles that do - especially concerning prophecy.

II Peter 1.20

This verse (2 Peter 1:20) is among the most misused verses in the NT. Sadly not one of the current translations accurately represents the Greek but rather INTERPRETS it ... creating a quasi-translation which is more a paraphrase. This is unfortunate because it intellectually severs verse 21 from verse 22 which only exacerbates the problem caused by the verse division. You see verse 22 in fact belongs to verse 21 since it in fact, when you parse the original Greek, not only completes the thought but explains it.

The problem is the method of separating the Biblical text into chapters and verses developed about a thousand years ago or more has unfortunately resulted in a few sentences and/or thoughts being split between verses ... and occasionally between chapters. Verses 20 and 21 of Second Peter are a case in point.

The operative clause in verse 20 is this: πᾶσα προφητεία γραφῆς ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως οὐ γίνεται·(PASS-a pro-fet-AY-a graf-ACE id-EE-as epi-LOO-seh-oce OO GHIN-eh-tie). Word for word this translates literally as "πᾶσα all (or every) προφητεία prophecy γραφῆς of writing (ie: Scripture, "holy" being understood and supplied by the reader) ἰδίας of a self (ie: privately) ἐπιλύσεως of an application (or interpretation) οὐ not γίνεται was caused to be (ie: was generated). Since English syntax is different from Greek, the words put into a slightly smoother structure convey this idea: "All prophetic writing was not caused to be (or was not brought into being) by a private application or interpretation."

And now the 21st verse becomes very important because it is actually a continuation of the thought in verse 20. It says: "οὐ γὰρ θελήματι ἀνθρώπου ἠνέχθη ποτέ προφητεία ἀλλ' ὑπὸ πνεύματος ἁγίου φερόμενοι ἐλάλησαν οἱ ἅγιοι θεοῦ ἄνθρωποι." Literally this reads: "οὐ not γὰρ for θελήματι by the will (the decree or desire) ἀνθρώπου of man ἠνέχθη did it come ποτέ in time past προφητεία the prophecy ἀλλ' but ὑπὸ under πνεύματος of the spirit ἁγίου of the holyφερόμενοι are they coming (or being brought forth) ἐλάλησαν they are speaking ἅγιοι holy θεοῦ of God (or from God) ἄνθρωποι men." In English syntax it reads: "Not by the desire (or will) of man did the prophecy come in time past but (rather) by the Holy Spirit they are brought forth by holy men speaking from God."

Now putting both verse together and reading as one thought, the passage reads:

"All prophetic writing was not caused to be (or was not brought into being) by a private application or interpretation, for not by the desire (or will) of man did the prophecy come in time past but (rather) by the Holy Spirit they are brought forth by holy men speaking from God."

See? The meaning of the passage is to indicate that all scripture was given by God according to HIS will, that it was not by men sitting down and writing what they THOUGHT God wanted to say. God determined what they would say and inspired them so that what came out of them was God speaking through them.

Now do you see how those should not be two verses, but one? The second part gives the true meaning to the first part. It is not that nobody can have a private interpretation of a verse when they read today ... though that may very well be true. After all, the same Holy Spirit dwells in each Christian so we should all share a common interpretation. Of course, we know that is not true ... or there would not be sincere Christians with opposing views of the meaning of some Scriptures.

Anyway, that is a sidebar to the issue in discussion here ... but one I thought worth interposing so as to give clarity to the true meaning of 2 Peter 1:20.

[DavidTR]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say David? What is your rapture timing position?

People here benefit from years of Biblical study and fellowship. 99% of my study has been in isolation. I have found learning here. I believe there will be Rapture and am happy to align with this site.

Everybody has a different Job. I am not permanently connected to an organisation or 'Church' institution. My Church connection is to two people from the other side of the world.

There are things I have knowledge of but do not yet fully understand the purpose of and the application of. I speak not of 'Rapture' but other issues from private experiences and dreams etc in the period of many months when I first picked up the Bible. I am searching around to see whether these things are known. It seems some are not. That is my quest for now.

In regard to all of the above I (try to) tread with caution. If I seem a little out of place here its only because I am by virtue of quite different experiences.

I make a simple point: The Bible says that it is not to be interpreted.
SO I avoid papers that require interpretation and find other ones. Similarly I avoid any risk of personal interpretation of Scripture.

So I am not trying to introduce here an alternative position on Rapture than that which is held here, merely promoting caution on the 'interpretation' issue which we all know to be unecessary and directed against.

Praise God

D

[Chris]

I think I understand David. :) I froget sometimes that you are living in Turkey. :) I think the articles above are very sound. They are from established and reputable pre-trib Bible prophecy teachers. They are really just commentaries on the pre-trib rapture. :)

The Bible says it is not open to "personal" interpretation. The proper way to use the Bible is to let the Bible interpret itself, like it does alot in Revelation.

I just wanted to clarify what you meant. :)

[DavidTR]

Absolutely no problem here Chris.

We watch in fellowship and awe as the times change before our very eyes.
(And as you say 'keep looking up).

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

1 John 4:2

Praise God

D

[Deep_MindQuest]

Chapter 38 - The Two Phases of Christ's Coming
Chapter 38 - The Two Phases of Christ's Coming

In the foregoing chapter we have pointed out that Christ’s coming is to consist of two phases. We also briefly pointed out some contrasts. In this chapter we are to discuss this matter more thoroughly.

We regard the fact of the two phases of Christ’s coming as the key that is necessary to unlock the meaning of many passages of Scripture. Without a recognition of this fact the passages dealing with this great event are confusing.

I. THE TWO PHASES CONTRASTED

1. The first phase will be in the air (1 Thess. 4:15-17); the second phase will be to the earth (Zech. 14:4).

2. The first phase of His coming will be for His people (Matt. 25:6-10; John 14:2); the second phase will be with His people (Jude 14; Rev. 17:14).

3. The first phase His coming will be as a bridegroom (Matt. 25:6-10); the second phase will be His coming as a king to judge and to reign (Ps. 96:13; Zech. 14:9; Matt. 25:31; Rev. 19:15; 20:4).

4. At the first phase the righteous will be taken from among the wicked (Matt. 25:6-10; 1 Thess. 4:15-17); at the second phase the wicked will be taken from among the righteous (Matt. 13:40-42).

5. At the first phase the righteous on earth will meet the Lord in the air to go away into Heaven with Him (1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:2); at the second phase they simply enter into the kingdom here on the earth (Matt. 13:43; Matt. 25:34).

6. At the first phase unbelievers are merely left on the earth (Matt. 25:10-12); at the second phase they are destroyed and cast into everlasting fire (Matt. 25:41, 46).

7. In connection with the first phase there will be a resurrection, the resurrection of the righteous (1 Thess. 4:15-17); in connection with the second phase there will be no specific resurrection (Matt. 25:31-46).

8. The first phase is ever imminent (Mark 13:35, 36; Jas 5:8; Rev. 22:12); the second phase is to be preceded by certain definite things (Matt. 24:14-29; 2 Thess. 2:1-8).

II. THE TWO PHASES SEPARATED AS TO TIME

Even a casual consideration of the foregoing contrasts shows that the two phases of Christ’s coming cannot occur simultaneously or in close connection. But note these specific evidences that a period of time will intervene between them:

1. Since at the first phase the righteous will be taken from among the wicked and at the second phase the wicked will be taken from among the righteous (see No. 4 above), it is impossible for the two phases occur in close connection. All the righteous will be taken away at the first phase. Hence there must be sufficient time between the first and second phases for some to be saved.

2. Since at the first phase Christ is to receive His disciples into the "many mansions prepared for them in Heaven (John 14:2) and at the second phase the righteous on earth are to enter into the kingdom on earth (see. No. 5 above), it is again impossible that both phases occur in close connection. Those who enter into the kingdom at the second phase must be saved after the first phase.

3. Since the first phase may occur at any time (so far as man knows) and the second phase must be preceded by specific events (see No. 8 above), they cannot occur in close connection. One is imminent and the other is not. Hence one must be farther away than the other.

4. There must he sufficient time between the two phases for the "Man of Sin" (2 Thess. 2:3) to be revealed and to run his course. He cannot be revealed until the hinderer is taken out of the way (2 Thess. 2:6,7). The hinderer is the Holy Spirit indwelling every saved person (1 Cor. 6:19).

That the Holy Spirit is the hinderer is proved by the personal pronoun that is applied to him and also in two ways by the process of elimination. The only other theory worth considering that has been advanced is that the Roman government was the hinderer. But the Roman government was taken out of the way some fifteen centuries ago, and the "Man of Sin" has not yet been revealed. Moreover the Roman government could not prevent the revelation of such a being as he is represented as being, but would rather contribute toward his revelation. The taking out of the way of the Holy Spirit will be accomplished when Christ takes His people out of the earth, which will be at the first phase of His coming. Sufficient time must elapse, therefore, between the first phase and the second for this monster to run his course, for he is to be destroyed at the second phase (2 Thess. 2:8).

5. Also there must be sufficient time between the two Phases for all the events recorded in Rev. 7:19. This section of Scripture should include chapter six also, no doubt, but we can be sure that it must begin with chapter seven. For in chapter seven we have the sealing of the servants of God on earth, and only Jews are sealed. This shows that the first phase of Christ’s coming has taken place already; for, otherwise, there would certainly be some Gentile servant’s of God on the earth.

The hundred and forty-four thousand Jews mentioned as being sealed in this chapter are evidently those that will be saved immediately after the appearance of Christ in the air. And then, to confirm this view, immediately following the account of the sealing of these Jews, we have the innumerable multitude in Heaven (Rev. 7:9). These, manifestly, are those that were lifted from the earth at Christ’s appearance in the air.

Then the second phase of Christ’s coming does not appear until we reach the nineteenth chapter, and there is every evidence of a general chronological order. Thus the events of the intervening chapters are to take place during the interim between the two phases of Christ’s coming.

Our opponents scoff at the idea of a period of time between the two phases of Christ’s coming. They say we teach that there will be two comings instead of one. They can call it what they will. The New Testament speaks of but one coming, but it clearly reveals that this one coming will consist of two phases, separated by a period of time. We prefer to believe what it teaches, regardless of their perversions.

III. THE FIRST PHASE OF CHRIST’S COMING IS IMMINENT

We have now shown that Christ’s coming is to consist of two phases, and that these phases are to be separated by a period of time. We undertake here to prove that the first phase of His coming is imminent. Note that we are not attempting to prove that Christ’s coming in judgment and to reign is imminent. So far as we know, all unfulfilled prophecies referring to this age (and there are many), without violence to them or any other Scriptures, may be fulfilled in the interim between the two phases of Christ’s coming. They must be fulfilled before the second phase of Christ’s coming, but we know of no prophecy that must be fulfilled before Christ comes for His bride.

Webster defines the word imminent as meaning "threatening to occur immediately; near at hand; impending." We maintain that this is exactly the way God has taught in His Word that believers should regard the coming of their Lord to receive them unto Himself. The Scripture teaches that this event is ever "near at hand," and that believers, therefore, should ever be in the attitude of watchful expectancy. Note the following passages:

1. Mark 13:25,36—"Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the Master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping."

Thayer says that the meaning of watch in this and similar passages is "to take heed, lest through remissness and indolence some destructive calamity overtake one." Can there be any sensible reason for watching for an event, unless, so far as we know, it may take place now?

2. James 5:8—"Be ye also patient, stablish your hearts; for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."

The Greek word for "draweth nigh" is in the pluperfect tense, and means, according to Thayer, "has come nigh, is at hand." A similar form of the same word is said by Thayer to be used "concerning things imminent and soon to come to pass." The verb in the above passage is translated "is at hand" nine times in the King James Version. Matthew 26:46 furnishes a good example of its use.

3. Revelation 22:12—"Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me to give

every man according as his work shall be."

The word in the passage for quickly does not mean suddenly, as some would have it; but it means "quickly, speedily, without delay" (Thayer). Good samples of its use may be found in Matthew 5:25; 28:7, 8; Mark 16:8; John 11:29. In the above passage, the coming of Christ is spoken of as God sees it; and a thousand years is as one day with God (1 Pet. 3:8). And it is so represented that the time of it may be uncertain to believers. So far as they know, it may occur at any moment. Therefore, to them it is ever imminent.

Many passages show the practical value of a belief in the imminent coming of Christ. Prominent among them is James 5:8, as given above. This passage shows that a belief in the imminent coming of Christ is an incentive to patience and strength in the midst of suffering and afflictions.

[BuzzardHut]