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Thread: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

                  
   
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    micah719 is offline an adopted son of The Most High God John 6:37-40

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    Default In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    This is an old article but I thought it was timely to post it. Last Sunday we baptised three new siblings and the reactions of the cultural Christians was noteworthy. Anyone with a little knowledge about the history of Christianity and Baptism in Germany would fully understand, and a little bit of study about it for those not familiar with it would be good as a primer on how nasty Christians can be to one another. For example, lutherans and calvinists (also called Reformed) used to drown Baptists, even as they were fighting against the rcc and each other.

    Our little congregation aren't Baptists....we have consciously avoided labeling ourselves as anything other than Christian. There are a couple of "Baptist" churches in this town but it is hard to tell which is more dangerously compromised by New Age and Emergent poison. The dominant faction are the lutherans, followed second by the rcc, though there isn't all that much difference between them other than appearances. The transition to the beast kingdom will go very smoothly here.

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    In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist | The Brussels Journal

    In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    From the desk of Thomas Landen on Fri, 2009-08-14 08:52

    The Federal Republic of Germany is a democracy. It is no fun, however, to be a Baptist in Germany. For the past two decades, the German authorities have been clamping down on Baptists who want to raise their children in accordance with their own religious principles. In Germany, the state rather than the parents is considered to be primarily responsible for the well-being of children. Hence, the draconic measures taken against Baptists. When, however, it comes to meeting the demands of Muslim the German state is far more lenient.

    In 1938, Germany outlawed homeschooling. The ban is one of the few bills introduced by Adolf Hitler that is still on the books in Germany today. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, hundreds of ethnic German families from Southern Russia and Kazakhstan emigrated to Germany. Many of them were Baptists who had been fiercely persecuted in the Soviet Union for their religious beliefs.

    Following their arrival in the West, the Baptists soon became unhappy with what their children were learning in the secular German public schools. They decided to homeschool their children. This move led to fierce repression by the German authorities who took the parents to court on charges of “Hochverrat und Volksverhetzung” (high treason and incitement of the people against the authorities). Some parents were imprisoned, some were robbed of their parental authority, some had their children taken away from them. Some children who sided with their parents, such as 16-year old Melissa Busekros in 2007, were placed in a psychiatric ward because, as the psychiatric evaluation report stated, she “considers herself healthy and her behavior fully normal” and, hence, needed “urgent help in a closed setting” where she would get “special education treatment to ensure schooling.” Some families, having fled from the Soviet Union at one time, fled again, from the Federal Republic of Germany to Austria, Britain, or other countries with a more lenient approach to homeschooling. Some parents, however, complied with ‘Hitler’s law’ and reluctantly sent their children to school.

    Two years ago, a Baptist couple from Eastern Westphalia kept their two sons, then 9- and 8-years old, home from school on two specific days, namely when the school was going to take them to a sex-education theatre play called “Mein Körper gehört mir” (My Body Belongs to Me) and when the school was having a carnival party. The authorities immediately clamped down on the parents and took them to court. Following two convictions of the couple, the case made its way up to the Bundesverfassungsgericht, Germany’s Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe, the highest court in the land, which last week also convicted them.

    On 11 August, Germany’s Supreme Court ruled that “the religious conviction of a minority” is subordinated to “a contradictory tradition of a differently inclined majority,” even when the latter tradition is incompatible with the religious principles of the minority. The Court sentenced the parents to a fine of 80 euros because on two occasions they had violated their legal obligation to have their children attend school. The Court stated that the right of religious freedom of the parents does not take precedence over article 7, par. 1 of the German Constitution which explicitly states that “The entire education system is under the supervision of the state.” The Court declared that “Consequently, the paternal right to raise children is restricted, in a constitutionally permissible way, by the concretization of the state’s obligation to ensure a universal duty to compulsive school attendance.”

    The relentlessness with which the German authorities consistently clamp down on Baptists who want to raise their children according to their own Christian beliefs, contrasts strongly with the leniency of the same authorities towards Muslims. While forcing 8-year olds to attend plays such as “My Body Belongs to Me” can only be considered a fairly recent “tradition” of the Germans, eating sausages and other types of pork definitely is an old German tradition. Nevertheless, in the past years, several public German schools have removed the traditional pork dishes from their menus. Last year the Käthe-Kollwitz-Schule in Minden announced that it was introducing halal food for everyone “to ensure that also Muslim children can have lunch at school.” Though the measure was clearly taken with regard to “the religious convictions of a minority” and went against the “contradictory tradition of a differently inclined majority,” the German authorities did not clamp down on the school, nor on the parents who had been demanding halal lunches for their kids.

    While Baptist children are being forced to attend carnival parties at school, a 1993 German court ruling stated that “as long as separate sports classes for boys and girls are not being offered” Muslim girls do not have to participate in the obligatory sports sessions at school. The parents of the girls had explicitly invoked Koranic prescriptions to object to their daughters participating in the co-ed sports classes. Strangely enough, the German school authorities did not appeal the 1993 court ruling and failed to bring the case to the Supreme Court. Instead, they accepted the ruling, which has since become a legal precedent accepted by all school authorities.

    Likewise, last May a court in Münster ruled that, though Muslim schoolgirls are obliged to participate in school swimming lessons, they are allowed to wear so-called “burqini” swimsuits that cover their entire body and hide their figures. Wearing the burqini has never been a “tradition” of the majority in Germany – a country with a long tradition of Freikörperkultur or nude sports activities. On the contrary, it is a practice which results from “the religious convictions of a minority” which is less indigenous to Germany than Christian Baptists. Nevertheless, the German school authorities have accepted the Munster ruling. They have not taken the case to the Supreme Court in order to have Muslim children forced to swim in regular swimsuits. Muslim children do not have to comply with the “contradictory tradition of a differently inclined majority” in the same way as Baptist children, whose parents are fined if they do not attend the school carnival.

    The difference in treatment of the so-called fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims by the German secular school authorities and courts gives rise to the suspicion that in contemporary Europe some religious minorities are “more equal” than others. While Christians are prosecuted and fined, Muslims are appeased. It makes one wonder if the school authorities would also have prosecuted if, instead of the sons of a Baptist couple, the 8- and 9-years old daughters of a Muslim couple had been kept from school on the day of the sex-ed school play?

    The answer to this question is probably “No.” Baptists are a peaceful minority, who want to be left alone and live according to their own values without trying to impose these values on others. Muslim fundamentalists are aggressive and demand that everyone live according to their values. Saying “No” to Baptist demands is not a security risk for a school; saying “No” to Muslim demands is. The German school authorities are well aware of this. Three years ago, the teachers of the Rütli-Hauptschule in the Berlin borough of Neukölln, asked the authorities to close down their school in order to protect them and the native German students who suffered threats and physical violence by Muslim students. Following the appeal of the staff at Rütli College several other schools in Berlin and other German cities complained that they were facing similar problems.

    Meanwhile, despite the Baptists’ hatred of German schools, Baptist violence against German school authorities is a non-existing phenomenon. Perhaps this explains why Baptists are bullied, prosecuted and fined by the German authorities, while the same authorities grovel to Muslims with ludicrous demands such as burqini swimsuits. On the other hand, if anyone ever opposes Muslim thugs who want to impose Islamic law on others, it will more likely be the Baptists, who – non-violently but firmly – will defend their own values, than the representatives of the German secularist establishment.

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    readyforhome is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    Not a big suprise there in my opinion. When I hear people talk about having a problem with people of faith, and or religion they almost without a doubt mean Christianity. I saw one guy with a shirt that said, " If Jesus does return again, kill him again." The shirt also depicted a figure throwing a Bible and a Cross into a trashcan. I was more than a little bit shocked at this. The guy had a smile on his face too. We aren't entering into apostasy we are already there. Though most atheists I know are part of what I say belong to the scientific religion, even when some of what they believe in isn't science per say. The scientists are their priests, and they practically deify them, even without realizing it. I ran across one rather heated debate between some people on Facebook over the recent appearance of Richard Dawkins on television and his interview with Bill O'Reilly. The people in the pro-Dawkins camp were extremely condescending. I wonder if these same folks talk the same way to Muslims or if they're worried about being labeled as "Islamophobic". From what I've read and heard the churches in Europe are practically museums these days with an explosion in mosques/ islamic worship centers.

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    micah719 is offline an adopted son of The Most High God John 6:37-40

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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    From what I've read and heard the churches in Europe are practically museums these days with an explosion in mosques/ islamic worship centers.
    Museums would be the least of the problems. There are bookshops (occult), hair salons, mosques, rock-climbing centres, apartments, dance clubs and The Lord only knows what else being installed where once His people gathered. Back to where we started, in homes and private gatherings...the autonomous local church, with only Christ at the head and with the Bible as foundation. Pray for the Elders!

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    readyforhome is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    I hear you brother, I basically based off of what I read in another article. Heck, we have a lot of that here in the World as a whole. I actually think we are going to see an increase in house churches, though I would like to point out that some people in California if I remember correctly who were ordered to stop home church meetings, even when what they were doing wasn't bothering or harming anyone else. We have been seeing and are obviously going to continue to see perscutions and obviously apostacy. We have churches in the U.S. surrounded by pornograpic retailers and drug dealers, etc. amongst other things. The fact of the matter is that the church has always been and should be a gathering of belivers, which as I know you're well aware of is far more important than any actual building. The fact that the German government is paying women to have children is both saddening and telling of where we are at. They're doing this to have more native born germans in the country as most of the current population increase has been from imigration, and most of that from Muslim dominated countries. Most of the European countries as far as I can tell are this way, and have you seen the Muslims disrupting traffic in cities in order to pray? Praying for the safety of my Christian brothers and sisters the World over. I for one would love and pray for World peace but I know that will not happen until Jesus returns.

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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    Consider the words of Omar M. Ahmad, founder of CAIR: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant." ... "The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America , and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

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    Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    Looks like the enemy has been given permission to ramp up his campaign against God and God's people.

    2 Chronicles 7:13-14, James 4:7
    Last edited by Carl; October-11th-2011 at 11:18 AM. Reason: add 2nd scripture
    Don't jump at me I'm no conclusion

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    micah719 is offline an adopted son of The Most High God John 6:37-40

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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    Another pertinent one:

    1 Peter 4:17-19
    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
    18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
    19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

    And more:

    Ezekiel 14:12-23
    12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
    13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
    14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
    15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
    16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
    17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
    18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
    19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:
    20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
    21 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?
    22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.
    23 And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.
    Last edited by micah719; October-11th-2011 at 11:29 AM. Reason: added Scripture

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    dave-o is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: In Germany It Is Better to Be a Muslim than a Baptist

    This may sound strange, but I find it oddly comforting that Christianity is the only group that world couldn't care less if it is despised, reviled or even persecuted.

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