2012: Make-or-break year for the eurozone

**LivnForChrist** · December-28th-2011, 12:12 PM

28 Dec, 2011, IST, AFP

The new year promises to be make or break time for the eurozone, with dramatic
integration into a new fiscal union for most and predictions that one 'small country'
could leave the currency area.

If 2011 went down as the "annus horribilis" for the European Union's symbol of integration,
leaders of Germany, France and debt-laden monetary partners face stark choices as they enter
2012, a decade after euro notes and coins first entered into everyday circulation.

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**YeuEmMaiMai** · December-30th-2011, 04:08 PM

I am betting on break....

**UncleJ** · January-4th-2012, 06:23 AM

Being in Europe, I hope it is not break. Based on Biblical prophecy and common sense, I do not think it will break. If the currency were to break, then centralized control is lost and power returns to the national governments.

I could see the USA in dire straights before I see Europe.

**UncleJ** · January-4th-2012, 06:40 AM

I should be clearer. I live in Italy. To circumvent the crisis a few things have happened.

1. Unelected government. This "technical" government for all practical purposes was a coup instigated by Europe. There seems to be some indications of a phone call from Merkel in Germany to the President of Italy asking for the PM to step down.

2. More currency control. At the supermarket and many other places of business, notices have gone up about purchases starting from 1 Jan. You cannot pay in cash a purchase over the amount of 999.99 Euro (About 1,300 USD). You must use credit card, Cheque or ATM (Bancomat) cards. This is to stop "under the table" transactions.

3. Increase in VAT rate (value added taxes as we have products that include the tax in the price). At start of crisis, rate was 20%. Overnight in went to 21%. It is scheduled to go to 23%

4. A few years back, we had tax on our property. This was removed for the first house while any additional property still had the tax. Now the tax is being re-introduced on the first property and rumors have it that it will be higher than before.

5. Massive increases in Petrol(gas) tax. One was immediate and the other starts this month. As a side note, one of the taxes paid on gas included an amount to support the war in Abissinia(1935).

It is estimated that Italians will pay 2,400 Euro more this year in taxes (those that do pay taxes).

There has been no reduction in political cost (Italian government plus contribution to Euro government).

So, Italy will survive but I can also see quite a bit more centralized European control.

**WKUHilltopper** · January-4th-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by UncleJ

I should be clearer. I live in Italy. To circumvent the crisis a few things have happened.

1. Unelected government. This "technical" government for all practical purposes was a coup instigated by Europe. There seems to be some indications of a phone call from Merkel in Germany to the President of Italy asking for the PM to step down.

2. More currency control. At the supermarket and many other places of business, notices have gone up about purchases starting from 1 Jan. You cannot pay in cash a purchase over the amount of 999.99 Euro (About 1,300 USD). You must use credit card, Cheque or ATM (Bancomat) cards. This is to stop "under the table" transactions.

3. Increase in VAT rate (value added taxes as we have products that include the tax in the price). At start of crisis, rate was 20%. Overnight in went to 21%. It is scheduled to go to 23%

4. A few years back, we had tax on our property. This was removed for the first house while any additional property still had the tax. Now the tax is being re-introduced on the first property and rumors have it that it will be higher than before.

5. Massive increases in Petrol(gas) tax. One was immediate and the other starts this month. As a side note, one of the taxes paid on gas included an amount to support the war in Abissinia(1935).

It is estimated that Italians will pay 2,400 Euro more this year in taxes (those that do pay taxes).

There has been no reduction in political cost (Italian government plus contribution to Euro government).

So, Italy will survive but I can also see quite a bit more centralized European control.

Thanks for your first hand assessment. It was interesting and revealing.

**YeuEmMaiMai** · January-4th-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by UncleJ

I should be clearer. I live in Italy. To circumvent the crisis a few things have happened.

1. Unelected government. This "technical" government for all practical purposes was a coup instigated by Europe. There seems to be some indications of a phone call from Merkel in Germany to the President of Italy asking for the PM to step down.

2. More currency control. At the supermarket and many other places of business, notices have gone up about purchases starting from 1 Jan. You cannot pay in cash a purchase over the amount of 999.99 Euro (About 1,300 USD). You must use credit card, Cheque or ATM (Bancomat) cards. This is to stop "under the table" transactions.

3. Increase in VAT rate (value added taxes as we have products that include the tax in the price). At start of crisis, rate was 20%. Overnight in went to 21%. It is scheduled to go to 23%

4. A few years back, we had tax on our property. This was removed for the first house while any additional property still had the tax. Now the tax is being re-introduced on the first property and rumors have it that it will be higher than before.

5. Massive increases in Petrol(gas) tax. One was immediate and the other starts this month. As a side note, one of the taxes paid on gas included an amount to support the war in Abissinia(1935).

It is estimated that Italians will pay 2,400 Euro more this year in taxes (those that do pay taxes).

There has been no reduction in political cost (Italian government plus contribution to Euro government).

So, Italy will survive but I can also see quite a bit more centralized European control.

This is why I say break. Taxing people like that = IMPLOSION

**A24AW** · January-4th-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by UncleJ

I should be clearer. I live in Italy. To circumvent the crisis a few things have happened.

1. Unelected government. This "technical" government for all practical purposes was a coup instigated by Europe. There seems to be some indications of a phone call from Merkel in Germany to the President of Italy asking for the PM to step down.

2. More currency control. At the supermarket and many other places of business, notices have gone up about purchases starting from 1 Jan. You cannot pay in cash a purchase over the amount of 999.99 Euro (About 1,300 USD). You must use credit card, Cheque or ATM (Bancomat) cards. This is to stop "under the table" transactions.

3. Increase in VAT rate (value added taxes as we have products that include the tax in the price). At start of crisis, rate was 20%. Overnight in went to 21%. It is scheduled to go to 23%

4. A few years back, we had tax on our property. This was removed for the first house while any additional property still had the tax. Now the tax is being re-introduced on the first property and rumors have it that it will be higher than before.

5. Massive increases in Petrol(gas) tax. One was immediate and the other starts this month. As a side note, one of the taxes paid on gas included an amount to support the war in Abissinia(1935).

It is estimated that Italians will pay 2,400 Euro more this year in taxes (those that do pay taxes).

There has been no reduction in political cost (Italian government plus contribution to Euro government).

So, Italy will survive but I can also see quite a bit more centralized European control.

Thank you Uncle J for sharing this. I used to live in Germany and the UK and I am aware of the taxing of the people. With the USA in the process of selecting a new president, most Americans are unaware of how much a vat tax effects the end price of a product. Some of our candidates are calling for a vat tax (national sales tax) -like in Europe- and they are convincing the naive American public of a taxing system that will always increase in amount and once instituted will never be removed from the system. Another point you mentioned is the cost of gasoline. In general, Americans are very naive to the cost of gasoline in Europe. We have much lower costs per gallon as compared to cost per liter in Europe. I remember while in Germany we received a form in the German mail asking us to list all the TVs and radios that we owned and turn it into the government. That's in the house as well as the car- every ipod, walkman, shortwave radio and every TV-big, small or other. Think about how many you and your kids have. It adds up quickly. The government then would tax us on the amount listed. Of course, the number has to match the number they have on file because when you purchased an electronic device on the German market it was recorded and sent to a government office. We do this when we purchase a vehicle here in the states, but not electronic devices. We are free to purchase as many was we want without the burden of a yearly electronic property tax. Other things are taxed as well, that's why they have "junkin' day". People try and get rid of property so they don't get taxed for it and leave it on the side of the road for anyone who can haul it off can have it-as well as the taxes that go with it. Thank goodness we were exempt because we were not German citizens. We just had to turn the form into the housing office to be exempt. I don't live in Germany now, so I don't know if they still have the tax. As Americans we must be critical of our government officials signing treaties with other countries so that we still have a voice as individuals.

Keep your eyes on the Lord. He is our only hope and salvation. With possible upcoming events, we must stay focused on him.