If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to

[jtvol]

[Momof3angels]

Yup. And that's the thing that scares me...

[Robert]

There is always UP.....

[Kist]

There is always UP.....

Indeed my first thought was the same thing bro.

[Lujack Skylark]

Indeed my first thought was the same thing bro.

It seems like when the United States government falls the anti-Christ will quickly arise.

[mattfivefour]

Funny, I thought we were free through Christ in our citizenship in Heaven, not through our citizenship in some worldly nation.

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." —John 8:26

I, personally, would rather live in freedom on this earth. But as long as I am in Christ, like Paul I can abound in all situations, and like Horatio Spafford I do not care whatever my estate: it is well with my soul.

"With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free."—Ephesians 6:7-8

Worrying about our personal liberty is putting our eyes on self and not our trust in God. Indeed, surely freedom in this life does not matter as much as serving Christ. And if being put in prison would save more souls, then I will sit in prison to do the will of Him who called me and saved me ... as He did you.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more." —1 Corinthians 9:19

All is for the glory of God. And in return He has promised to look after us. So why do we spend so much time worrying about ourselves and what might happen to us? Is He not able?

[Robert]

Funny, I thought we were free through Christ in our citizenship in Heaven, not through our citizenship in some worldly nation.

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." —John 8:26

I, personally, would rather live in freedom on this earth. But as long as I am in Christ, like Paul I can abound in all situations, and like Horatio Spafford I do not care whatever my estate: it is well with my soul.

"With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free."—Ephesians 6:7-8

Worrying about our personal liberty is putting our eyes on self and not our trust in God. Indeed, surely freedom in this life does not matter as much as serving Christ. And if being put in prison would save more souls, then I will sit in prison to do the will of Him who called me and saved me ... as He did you.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more." —1 Corinthians 9:19

All is for the glory of God. And in return He has promised to look after us. So why do we spend so much time worrying about ourselves and what might happen to us? Is He not able?

As much as my flesh wants freedom, what is freedom if it is not in Christ?

"Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed." (John 8:34-36, NASB)

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." (2 Corinthians 3:17, NASB)

"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. ...For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” (Galatians 5:1, 13-14, NASB)


My soul and spirit agree with you Matt.

[MikeD]

As Robert stated, I too agree with what you stated Matt5:4. Yet, I still have to say, this is the country I grew up in, lived in, and defended it with my service. If you honestly consider the history of the U.S. of A, one can not help but see how God has truly blessed this nation; like no other! Thus, I will continue to stand and defend my country against all those that would tear us down.

Am I wrong for feeling so strongly towards the worldly nation I live in? Well, yes, maybe in some ways. I know, by God's Word, and as you stated, my TRUE citizenship is in heaven; a place Jesus is preparing for us even as we speak. Yet, I still thank my God for allowing me to have been a part of this great nation.

I will openly state and with no apologies, I have had the blood of fellow warriors dripping off my hands because of giving their lives in the service of defending our beliefs. Weather that was wrong or right in us being where we were, that is left for another discussion. However, I will NEVER forget the sacrifice these men, and women, made in their service. Because of them, I will continue to stand for our nation and support her with my life if necessary. If that is wrong as far as my "citizenship" in heaven is concerned, again, I make no apologies for that. And, I guess, it would probably be, or could be ( maybe not) something I will have to face Jesus myself concerning this at my judgment.

Because of what is written in the Bible concerning "end times" I do know, realize, and fully understand, all that America stands for WILL be coming to an end. It MUST! But, as crazy as it may sound, knowing what will take place doesn't mean I have to like it. But, either way, I do pray for God's will to be done, no matter what. And that, God's will, will obviously be the one to last when all else is gone.

2Cr 3:17 Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom.

[mikhen7]

As Robert stated, I too agree with what you stated Matt5:4. Yet, I still have to say, this is the country I grew up in, lived in, and defended it with my service. If you honestly consider the history of the U.S. of A, one can not help but see how God has truly blessed this nation; like no other! Thus, I will continue to stand and defend my country against all those that would tear us down.

Am I wrong for feeling so strongly towards the worldly nation I live in? Well, yes, maybe in some ways. I know, by God's Word, and as you stated, my TRUE citizenship is in heaven; a place Jesus is preparing for us even as we speak. Yet, I still thank my God for allowing me to have been a part of this great nation.

I will openly state and with no apologies, I have had the blood of fellow warriors dripping off my hands because of giving their lives in the service of defending our beliefs. Weather that was wrong or right in us being where we were, that is left for another discussion. However, I will NEVER forget the sacrifice these men, and women, made in their service. Because of them, I will continue to stand for our nation and support her with my life if necessary. If that is wrong as far as my "citizenship" in heaven is concerned, again, I make no apologies for that. And, I guess, it would probably be, or could be ( maybe not) something I will have to face Jesus myself concerning this at my judgment.

Because of what is written in the Bible concerning "end times" I do know, realize, and fully understand, all that America stands for WILL be coming to an end. It MUST! But, as crazy as it may sound, knowing what will take place doesn't mean I have to like it. But, either way, I do pray for God's will to be done, no matter what. And that, God's will, will obviously be the one to last when all else is gone.

2Cr 3:17 Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom.

I think Mattfivefour and MikeD are both correct. Our citizenship is in heaven and the fact so many of us are here on this board shows we long to see the day when the Lord our "Blessed Hope" appears. On the other hand, we have a mandate to support the weak and those who are oppressed in this world. Trust me, there are many. When Tyranny raises its head the people become its prey and we ourselves fall into an oppressive state. I gave 8 years of my life in service as well, and would do so again if called, if only to protect and fight for liberty from oppression against my family and all others who call themselves true Americans. Our land has indeed been blessed by the Lord and we for centuries have been able to basque in those blessings. It was the Godly who have gone on before us that helped protect what we enjoy today. I gladly stand by them to protect and serve our nation and its people from oppression be it internal or external. The Lord is first in my heart and in my life but my earthly homeland is a special place that has provided me a place to seek refuge in God, worship in peace, and to express my faith openly. It is worth protecting in my view.

My only hope is that through prayer, standing for what is moral and ethically correct, and by lifting the banner of Jesus high above all else in our lives we will be able to preserve the haven that allows freedom to ring in every heart. I am not for violent revolution but I realize in the end our inalienable God given right to exist in freedom must be protected. I hope it never goes that far. Truly our citizenship is in heaven, and if we were trying to setup a "Kingdom of God" on earth we would fight for it. But we are not. As long as we are still here we must stand for truth and God given rights. Oppression is evil and the Lord abhors it. If I would ever have to fight it would be to fight against what is evil.

God Bless

[mikhen7]

I wanted to make on last comment, to fight or not to fight, has always been an issue in America. It falls under the banner of conscientious objection. There are two films I have vied in the past that somewhat underscore this struggle:

1) Sgt York
2) Friendly Persuasion

I recommend these to films for any who struggle with standing for our rights on earth even in times of war. Magnificent films.

Our responsibility is to the Lord and in all things He must have First Place. If we would ever have to fight against evil then let us do it as a servant of the Lord in protection of what is good and just for our fellow neighbors not as an instrument of killing to gain power and control.

God Bless

[mattfivefour]

Our citizenship is in heaven and the fact so many of us are here on this board shows we long to see the day when the Lord our "Blessed Hope" appears. On the other hand, we have a mandate to support the weak and those who are oppressed in this world.

Indeed. I agree absolutely. In a poem I wrote a few years ago are the words: "How can it be wrong, to rescue the weak from the boots of the strong?"

The answer is, it can't. And it isn't. Within certain constraints. To violate those constraints is to deviate from Christianity into humanism. As with most humanistic things, the motive may be good, but the resulting actions are not of God.

Psalm 82:3-4 tells us to "Defend (as in court— thus "vindicate" or "give justice to") the weak and fatherless; do justice (we ourselves are to do what is just) to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them out of the hand of the wicked." This is a personal responsibility placed upon every one of us: in other words it is to govern how we ourselves live our lives among our fellow man.

In Jeremiah 22, God Himself, speaking to King Jehoiakim through the prophet, says: "‘Hear the word of the LORD, O king of Judah, who sits on David’s throne, you and your servants and your people who enter these gates. ‘Thus says the LORD, “Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place." (Jeremiah 22:2-3) He then goes on to say: "Did not your father eat and drink and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him. He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy; then it was well. Is not that what it means to know Me?” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 22:15-16 NASB) So clearly it is God's will and an expression of union with Him to be after His business which is to do justice and righteousness and to plead the cause of the afflicted and needy. This is the highest expression of love, to selflessly give so another may be recovered from bondage. As Jesus said, "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13) Friends being ones brothers and sisters in Christ... and one's fellow man ... which is readily apparent from NT teaching.

Yet I am ever mindful that it is God "Who executes justice for the oppressed; Who gives food to the hungry. (It is) the LORD (who) sets the prisoners free." (Psalm 146:7) Nor is there a contradiction between this and the passage in Jeremiah 22, because it is clear from the context of the Jeremian passage that these are instructions to a ruler. God has given him David's throne, and upon that throne—the earthly precursor to Messiah's own throne—that justice alone must reign from it. Therefore, to those who have been place into his care or who come under that care, the king is to do justice and mercy. The precept is not that the king should go to war to free others not of our kin (nowhere do we find that taught or even demonstrated in scripture) but rather to stand up against those who would abuse the weak and insure justice is done in his kingdom. The king's strength must be used to defend and rescue all of the weak of the realm.

The answer to "What if the king himself is evil?" can be found in the story of David and Saul. Saul was found to be evil (indeed evil spirits came upon him and drove him to violent and hateful acts, as we read in 1 Samuel 18). Due to his continued disobedience God stripped the kingship from Saul and transferred it to David. (1 Samuel 15:28; 28:17) Yet Saul continued to wear the crown and made war against David, seeking to kill him. Twice David found himself in a position to kill Saul, but he did not. Why? "There was a cave; and Saul went in to relieve himself. Now David and his men were sitting in the inner recesses of the cave. The men of David said to him, “Behold, this is the day of which the LORD said to you, ‘Behold; I am about to give your enemy into your hand, and you shall do to him as it seems good to you.’” Then David arose and cut off the edge of Saul’s robe secretly. It came about afterward that David’s conscience bothered him because he had cut off the edge of Saul’s robe. So he said to his men, “Far be it from me because of the LORD that I should do this thing to my lord, the LORD’S anointed, to stretch out my hand against him, since he is the LORD’S anointed.” David persuaded his men with these words and did not allow them to rise up against Saul. And Saul arose, left the cave, and went on his way. (1 Samuel 24:3-7 NASB)

David, himself, gives his reason a few verses further on when he speaks directly to Saul: "May the LORD judge between you and me, and may the LORD avenge me on you; but my hand shall not be against you. As the proverb of the ancients says, ‘Out of the wicked comes forth wickedness’; but my hand shall not be against you. After whom has the king of Israel come out? Whom are you pursuing? A dead dog, a single flea? The LORD therefore be judge and decide between you and me; and may He see and plead my cause and deliver me from your hand.” (1 Samuel 24:12-15) And David continued to be on the run from Saul until God Himself arranged Saul's death. Thus did David live what he preached in Psalm 146 above: it is God who executes justice for the oppressed and who sets the prisoners free.

Indeed, did Jesus Himself not quote this prophecy about Himself from the prophet Isaiah? "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to captives and freedom to prisoners." (Isaiah 61:1) Therefore these are good things in God's sight. But did Jesus lead warriors to battle to accomplish the liberty of captives and the freedom of prisoners? No. He was speaking spiritually, not physically. Unfortunately many did not understand, and upon His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on that final Passover they all thought He had come to defeat the Romans, deliver Israel from under Rome's rule. I fear today many fall into the same error.

Paul said that he had learned to be content in whatever circumstances he was in: "I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me." (Philippians 4:11-13) And certainly this one man had suffered terribly as he had followed Christ and done his part to obey the great commission. In his second letter to the Church at Corinth he speaks of his work, his strivings, his imprisonments and then continues: "Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure." (2 Corinthians 11:24-27) He was unfairly imprisoned, unjustly accused, terribly abused; yet he says "[God] has said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.' Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong." (2 Corinthians 12:9-10)

I thank God that He has placed us in nations that have functioning (arguably) democracies. At least we have the right to go to the polls at regular intervals and vote for our choice of who will govern us. This is not an option given to the bulk of those who have lived since the world began. To be blunt, we are refusing a God-given gift if we neglect to exercise that right.

However, I cannot see from Scripture ... specifically the teachings of Christ and His apostles—in other words from the New Testament, which gives the specifications of the New Covenant—I cannot see in that where we are to fight violently for our freedoms ... or even our rights. If anyone can show me the principle in NT Scripture I will reconsider. But I have yet to see it.

Now please notice tht I am arguing from Scripture, not from history. But surely it is the record of God that is our guide, not the record of man. Yes, America won her freedom from another free state by violence. She became a powerful nation (currently the MOST powerful nation) and has without any doubt at all been used of God for His purposes. Praise Him for that! He raised her up to help prevent evil in the form of Hitler—and others—from triumphing. But she has also contributed much evil to the world ... pornography being one, the enslavement and torture of innumerable individuals in the course of propping up brutal and corrupt right-wing dictatorships in order to try and stem the spread of Communism is another. Yes, the Communists did the same (and worse), but that is a red herring. It is avoiding the point. And let us not forget that the Bible records clearly that God used Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, the Philistines, and numerous pagan tribes to accomplish His purpose upon this earth.

We need to understand that outside of Israel, no nation on the face of this earth is His as a nation. Upon no other nation has He set His seal. Their present and ongoing disobedience and rejection of Him does not alter that fact. God never changes. His promises are yea and amen. So being used of God does not imply favored status in the Heavenlies, as much as we may think that it does.

And now 234 years after her founding, the United States is over-run with corruption at all levels. The bulk of the population has rejected —or simply forgotten—God. Each man does what is right in his own eyes if he can get away with it. And some of those sworn to preserve law and order do the same. Violence and evil are strangling the land. Selfishness reigns at all levels.

But the answer is not, I believe, for the few to rise up and try to take back the country. It is a fiction to believe that the majority of the people will support that cause. They will support having lower taxes (or no taxes at all) and therefore might very well join such a revolution, but the result would not be a theocracy, pr a God-fearing nation, or even a free country. The struggle would only create a land of political and economic chaos and present a much weakened nation to the world. Man's unsaved nature will ensure that any form of government will eventually devolve into a cesspool of corruption. That is the plain lesson of history ... and, more importantly, of the Bible.

Man cannot create justice ... in this land, or any other. It is only when CHRIST comes in triumph that the nations of this world will be converted and their governments will govern justly under the iron rod of the Lamb.

God has made it clear in His Word that ALL of our efforts are to go into spreading the gospel to every man, woman and child on the face of the earth. He will make a way for us to do that, regardless of any lack of freedom, regardless of any barrier that man might erect. Look at the multitudes coming into Christ's Kingdom behind the walls of authoritarian regimes. Thousands are converting to Christ secretly in Islam. Many more in China, North Korea, and everywhere else where people are forbidden to worship the true God.

Our worries about our own freedoms only distract us from our duty to Christ. Our own concern for our own welfare takes preeminence over our concern for our duty as His servants. We are not in this life free men. We are not our own. We are bond slaves of Jesus Christ. We are only free in Him. Jesus left us with a clear command: To proclaim the good news of salvation through faith in Him.

In Matthew 24 Jesus says: "“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes." (Matthew 24:45-46) He has put us in charge of feeding the lost and feeding the sheep ... not in charge of looking after ourselves and supplying our own needs. He has said that HE would do that (Matthew 6:32) And the Holy Spirit promises us that indeed "God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:19)

So when He comes suddenly, without warning, will He find faith on the earth? Will He find us doing what He commanded us to do? Or will He find us fighting for our perceived needs, not trusting in Him to look after what is truly necessary in our lives? Is our earthly freedom more important than His Word? And for those who say we need freedom to preach the Word, may I refer you back to the examples I mentioned earlier of the great growth of the Church in totalitarian countries? May I also point you back to history that demonstrates that the greatest growth of the true Church and the greatest achievements of true faith and purity in that Church have come during the times of greatest persecution? The fires of persecution purify the believer and, as Tertullian observed, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.

Anyway, I am not going to argue this further. I have laid out what Scripture says in the Covenant we live under in this Age. What each of us does with that is up to us and our conscience before God. But remember this: if you say God would have me do something, make sure it is indeed God instructing you in that way. One day we WILL stand before Him and we WILL answer for our every decision and action. And our answer then will not be as we answer one another now. In His awesome and majestic Presence His searching fire WILL reveal the truth of our hearts and our obedience to Him.

God bless. I pray for each one of my brothers and sisters, as I do for myself, that we would hear His voice and submit ourselves to His will.

In Christ,

Matt

[mikhen7]

Matt, some may pose the question as to whether or not Christians should serve in the Armed Forces of the nation. What is your belief around that, considering, they may have to fight in a war that may not be just.

We appreciate the pains you have gone through in the above post. I am sure many will be blessed with the teaching.

God Bless.

[mattfivefour]

Bro, that is a tough one in some respects. I at one time would have volunteered had I not had a family to feed and had there been a reason to volunteer. I actually thought of it during Vietnam. (Thousands of Canadians indeed did enlist in the US forces and fight over there, many dying.) But as I have gotten older (and certainly far beyond military years) and have become more acquainted with God's teachings as revealed by Christ, I am not so sure.

Of course the first gentile convert was the centurion, Cornelius. Now whether he remained a military man or became a minister or something else, the Bible does not let us know. Certainly acting as a police officer enforcing just laws is an honorable profession. And the military plays an important role in protecting and preserving a nation, so that too is honorable. Killing in that process? Yes, it is part of the job where necessary. My only issue would be being ordered to commit a crime against God's law ... think of some of the atrocities that have occurred, committed by men in the heat of battle and blood lust. However, the following of just orders and the taking of the life of an attacker in that process? No problem.

But I cannot help but recall that many times during the past two major wars, Christians have been firing upon Christians. I cannot resolve that in my mind; but I know God knows and He understands. We are judged by our motives, thank God! Not necessarily our actions.

My earlier post was purely focused on revolution and what God has revealed in His Word, not on the issue of fighting and serving the government of one's country. I would never discourage somebody form entering military or law enforcement service. They are both ordained under God (Romans 13:1, 6) as part of the authorities that rule a nation. However, I would counsel that they ensure that God is leading them into that field and remind them that they must always remember their duty is to God first, then to man.

This question, though, is one that has torn at the hearts and minds of Christians for two thousand years. Nowhere in scripture does it command NOT to join the military ... or the reverse. And we have many brothers (and some sisters) who have served their country well. Some, like Sean, are still doing so ... albeit in an allied field. I believe that each man and woman must settle the matter it in their own heart in submission to what God reveals to them.

Hope this helps.

[mikhen7]

Bro, that is a tough one in some respects. I at one time would have volunteered had I not had a family to feed and had there been a reason to volunteer. I actually thought of it during Vietnam. (Thousands of Canadians indeed did enlist in the US forces and fight over there, many dying.) But as I have gotten older (and certainly far beyond military years) and have become more acquainted with God's teachings as revealed by Christ, I am not so sure.

Of course the first gentile convert was the centurion, Cornelius. Now whether he remained a military man or became a minister or something else, the Bible does not let us know. Certainly acting as a police officer enforcing just laws is an honorable profession. And the military plays an important role in protecting and preserving a nation, so that too is honorable. Killing in that process? Yes, it is part of the job where necessary. My only issue would be being ordered to commit a crime against God's law ... think of some of the atrocities that have occurred, committed by men in the heat of battle and blood lust. However, the following of just orders and the taking of the life of an attacker in that process? No problem.

But I cannot help but recall that many times during the past two major wars, Christians have been firing upon Christians. I cannot resolve that in my mind; but I know God knows and He understands. We are judged by our motives, thank God! Not necessarily our actions.

My earlier post was purely focused on revolution and what God has revealed in His Word, not on the issue of fighting and serving the government of one's country. I would never discourage somebody form entering military or law enforcement service. They are both ordained under God (Romans 13:1, 6) as part of the authorities that rule a nation. However, I would counsel that they ensure that God is leading them into that field and remind them that they must always remember their duty is to God first, then to man.

This question, though, is one that has torn at the hearts and minds of Christians for two thousand years. Nowhere in scripture does it command NOT to join the military ... or the reverse. And we have many brothers (and some sisters) who have served their country well. Some, like Sean, are still doing so ... albeit in an allied field. I believe that each man and woman must settle the matter it in their own heart in submission to what God reveals to them.

Hope this helps.

Again you are exactly correct. I mentioned the two films above in an earlier post because they both deal with that issue. I served 8 years and I have no problem with serving as a call of duty to our country. I also, in another thread posted that I am against armed revolution at this time. However, I would support a revolution if things got so bad and oppressive and the government turned its arms against the people. It would have to be a very, very extreme situation. God would also have to be in it. At any rate, I believe this has been an informative thread for all interested.

God Bless. Keep up the ministry!

[Kenny64]

Our pastor had a wonderful sermon Sunday on "Peace". Like freedom that we do enjoy at the
moment is shortening fast, along with that there isn't much Peace on earth.
Our only salvation is in the Lord. Look up, our salvation draweth neigh!

One of my favorite verses....
Luke 21:36

36. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

[Kenny64]

Matt, some may pose the question as to whether or not Christians should serve in the Armed Forces of the nation. What is your belief around that, considering, they may have to fight in a war that may not be just.

We appreciate the pains you have gone through in the above post. I am sure many will be blessed with the teaching.

God Bless.

I am a retired United States Army Warrant Officer. I've believe in Jesus since I was 13 years old.
Serving our country is like serving our Lord. Please check this website.... good reading for your answer.
google this website for answer. gotquestions.org/military-Christian.htm
What does the Bible say about a Christian serving in the military.
Kenny

[Sean Osborne]

Kenny64,

Amen and Hooah! Welcome to the forum Brother.


To those who don't know...

The U.S. military oath of service, officer or enlisted, concludes with the words "...so help me God." Ditto for the UK, Canada and Australia.

Taking this oath with your hand on the Bible is optional.

That about sums it up.

[twerpv]

The problem about rising up against your own government is one of timing (not to mention the how to). The way in which our freedoms have been lost is the insidious thing. It is slow, disguised and methodical. A little here, a little there and before one knows it, we are too far down the road. It would be easy to rally the masses against something that came swift and stark but that is not the case. People are conditioned more and more to accept the invasion of their privacy and loss of freedom. Imagine if the "people" simply told congress, we are not sending our money to you anymore. Last I checked, the police force, IRS, armed forces, et. al. are made up of people. They could participate. How about the crooks that have been in office are all 'let go'? I can dream but alas.....
Of course the whole problem exists due to man's disobedience to God's word.

[Steve1300]

God's people have always fought and killed in war. That is not a new question.

There are no new answers.

It is right to be a good steward of the country and government that God gave us.

While I look forward to my heavenly home, I am not released from defending the one that I have on this world. To ignore our government and our neighbors, is to ignore the responsibility we have to take care of those things that were given us by God himself.

[Kenny64]

In the New Testament, Jesus marveled when a Roman centurion (an officer in charge of one hundred soldiers) approached Him. The centurion’s response to Jesus indicated his clear understanding of authority, as well as his faith in Jesus (Matthew 8:5-13). Jesus did not denounce his career. Many centurions mentioned in the New Testament are praised as Christians, God-fearers, and men of good character (Matthew 8:5; 27:54; Mark 15:39-45; Luke 7:2; 23:47; Acts 10:1; 21:32; 28:16).

Jesus is the prime example of service and unselfish love when he stated, "My command is this:
"Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down
his life for his friends." John 15:12-13