Seventh Day Adventist vs. Born Again Christian

[hontou]

I’ve been searching the bible for answers and I’ve had a few questions on my mind lately.
1. “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7 KJV)
I know we are covered by grace, but what are we being judged on?

2. “Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Revelation 12:7 NIV)
If the devil has no role in the plan for salvation, what is the dragon?

[mattfivefour]

I’ve been searching the bible for answers and I’ve had a few questions on my mind lately.
1. “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7 KJV)
I know we are covered by grace, but what are we being judged on?

The judgment being referred to here is the Great White Throne Judgment. This is a judgment on all those who have rejected Christ, all those who are not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. And all who appear in this judgment are going to hell. Only those who have been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ are going to be with Him in glory. And, consequently, Christians therefore will not be judged in this way.

Now the Bible does speak of the "judgment seat of Christ", often referred to as the "Bema Seat Judgment". There Christians will not be judged on whether they go to heaven or hell but rather will be rewarded for their faithful works for Christ that they performed while in the flesh ... works that were done out of love for God and for their fellow man, not works that were done to earn a reward in heaven. You see, the motive must be love and faithfulness, not self-seeking. That is the meaning of this passage in First Corinthians:

11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. —1 Corinthians 3:11-15

In the Bible, gold symbolizes righteousness, silver typifies salvation, and precious stones represent the saints. That which we do that promotes righteousness in the world, salvation among mankind, and the building up of the saints in their faith will survive the "fire" that will test all our works. But wood, hay, and stubble are temporary things. Some do not even stand the test of permanence even on this earth. Even wood which isappears solid and can last for hundreds and hundreds of years will eventually rot, and it certainly will not withstand fire. These all represent impermanent works, works that men did in their own strength and their own wisdom and, often, for their own glory. They may perform a purpose in man's eyes, but not in God's.

Further, there is an interesting study on just exactly what the Bema seat is. And that turns on the meaning of the Greek Word "bema". It is used in Acts 18:12; Acts 18:16-17; Acts 25:6,17; Matthew 27:19 and John 19:13 to describe the judgment seats where respectively Gallio in Corinth, Festus in Caesarea, and Pilate in Jerusalem, sat in judgment. But "Bema" also has another connotation ... and that is brought out most excellently by J. Hampton Keathley III, a great bible scholar and a pastor, who went home to his eternal rest and reward just a few years ago:

"Its use in the epistles by Paul, because of his many allusions to the Greek athletic contests, is more in keeping with its original use among the Greeks.

This word was taken from Isthmian games where the contestants would compete for the prize under the careful scrutiny of judges who would make sure that every rule of the contest was obeyed (see 2 Timothy 2:5). The victor of a given event who participated according to the rules was led by the judge to the platform called the Bema. There the laurel wreath was placed on his head as a symbol of victory (cf. 1 Corinthians. 9:24-25).

In all of these passages, “Paul was picturing the believer as a competitor in a spiritual contest. As the victorious Grecian athlete appeared before the Bema to receive his perishable award, so the Christian will appear before Christ’s Bema to receive his imperishable award. The judge at the Bema bestowed rewards to the victors. He did not whip the losers.”2 We might add, neither did he sentence them to hard labor.

In other words, it is a reward seat and portrays a time of rewards or loss of rewards following examination, but it is not a time of punishment where believers are judged for their sins. Such would be inconsistent with the finished work of Christ on the Cross because He totally paid the penalty for our sins.

If anybody wants a complete but brief study on the Doctrine of Rewards, I highly recommend Dr. Keathley's study which has formed part of the basis of my own understanding of judgment of us believers. You can find it online at The Doctrine of Rewards: The Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ

“Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Revelation 12:7 NIV)
If the devil has no role in the plan for salvation, what is the dragon?

The question is not "what" is the dragon, but "who" is the dragon. And the Book of Revelation itself answers that question (Revelation 12:9; Revelation 20:2). It is Satan.

Hope this helps.

[hontou]

Wow. Thank you =). That was very informative and I'll check on the judgment reading.

Sorry to trouble you, but I have one more question. I know we are human, so we, by our own works would have great difficulty in attaining salvation, but when the bible says "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15), how would that be put into the judgement? or will it even?

[mattfivefour]

And what are His commandments?

To the crowds that followed him and to the teacher of the law who asked the question, Jesus said the Ten Commandments were summed up in these two: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul and strength" and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But later, to His disciples, during the Last Supper as He made preparations to leave them, Jesus said he was giving them a NEW commandment. And what was this new commandment? Read John 13:34. "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

Notice that it takes the old commandment "Love your neighbor as you love yourself" and raises it to a higher level: "Love one another as I have loved you." And how did Christ love us? He served us with His life, and then gave that life for us. Did He not say in John 15:13— "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

So, too, are we to live that way ... loving the people in the world as He loved them, to the extent that we would die if necessary to proclaim to them the message of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work at Calvary alone ... ... and also loving the saints, our brothers and sisters in the Lord, so much that we would lay down our lives for them, as well.

Can we do any of this in our own strength? No. The Bible tells us that love, joy, peace, et cetera are the fruit of the Spirit. They are what the Holy Spirit produces in us as we surrender—every day—to God. We, therefore, cannot produce them in our own strength, because our own strength lies in the flesh and the flesh is our old nature which God has put to death through Christ's sacrifice and which death He wants to become reality in each of us.

If we try to obey the commandments in our flesh, then we become like the Galatians to whom Paul said, "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"

The Bible tells us that it is through the Holy Spirit that we put to death the works of the flesh (Romans 8:13) and that it is God Himself who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

You want to please God? Keep His commandments— love Him with everything in you and also love your neighbor as Jesus loved us. And the only way to do that is to let the Holy Spirit take control of you and your life, daily reckon yourself to no longer have any right to yourself or your dreams and ideas, and live only by His Word and for His glory.

It can be done ... if you want it in your heart and you trust Him to do it. You just have to decide that is what you really want in your life ... and daily recommit that to the Lord.
Trust Him ... He who has begun a good work in you will fulfill it till the day He comes again (Philippians 1:6) for He is both the author (the founder) and the finisher (the perfecter) of your faith. (Hebrews 12:2)

Hope this helps.

[hontou]

That was enlightening. I remember coming across many of those verses, but I'm still puzzled by my initial question.

when the bible says "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15), how would that be put into the judgement? or will it even?

[mattfivefour]

That was enlightening. I remember coming across many of those verses, but I'm still puzzled by my initial question.

the bible says "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15), how would that be put into the judgement? or will it even?

No it will not be put into judgment.

Your salvation will not be judged because it is secure in Christ. It is because of what HE did that you are saved, not because of what you did ... other than having faith in what HE did.

As I explained above, the Bema judgment seat of Christ is for rewards ... not for salvation. Read that article by J. Hampton Keathley III at The Doctrine of Rewards: The Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site It will answer a lot of your questions.

Your keeping God's commandments does not earn you anything. Only what Christ did has earned you salvation. And if you are truly born again you will find yourself wanting to please Him. And you will automatically find yourself keeping His commandments more and more as you allow the Holy Spirit more and more control of your life ... not because you are TRYING to keep them, but because you will just naturally keep them.

You need to get around the idea that it is what YOU do that saves you, it is only what HE did that saves you. What you do after you are saved is a natural response to what He did since the Holy Spirit has come to live in you and give you new life. That's what "born again" means: You are born into a new life ... a spiritual life.

Now you also need to know that while there is a new, saved nature put in you by God, you still have the old fallen, sinful nature you have had since birth. You cannot conquer it, no matter how hard you try. In fact the more you try to conquer it the stronger it grows. But your new nature CAN conquer the old nature. In fact, it is the only thing that can. So that is why you need to feed the new nature by reading and studying your Bible, by praying (which is just talking to God) daily, and by asking God to change you every time you find something in you that you know from the Bible is displeasing to God.

There is an old saying that I use often when talking to God. It goes: "Lord, re-form my heart, transform my mind, conform my will to Thine." (note when I say "re-form" I am not saying to reform my old heart, I am saying to continue to form a new heart in me) If you pray that to God regularly with real meaning in your heart, He will do it. And then you will find that you are living a life in which the fruit of the Spirit becomes more and more in evidence to those around you and a life that just naturally reflects the commandments of God.

Hope this helps. And that it finally answered your question.

[chickiebabe]

Not sure where to put this but what's the difference between the Adventist and Born Again Christian - besides worshiping on Saturday & no rapture?

I am a Seventh Day Adventist Christian, and I want to testify that as a church and people we believe in the death of Jesus as our only hope and salvation, in the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and that only by being a born again Christian that any of us can be saved. Of course, there are hypocrits in every church, my church has its share, and legalism is also a ditch Satan has for any of us (thinking we might be saved by what we do), but anyone who says that SDA Christians believe that they are saved by their works, has not done their research well. We totally agree that it is only by the work, life, death and resurrection of Jesus that we can be saved. However, we also believe that the 10 commandment law of God was given to all people for all time. That it was never ok to murder, commit adultery, steal, profane God's name, or forget to remember God's Sabbath. Most Christians believe in 9 of the 10 commandments, but sadly, neglect for the sake of their own convenience, to remember the 4th commandment, of God's holy day - which was given as a blessing to all mankind, to rest and fellowship with their fellow man and their Jesus. In this age of stress and stress-related diseases, we as a SDA people are so thankful for the blessing of the 24 hour period of the Sabbath, when we set all secular work aside, prepare before, and welcome a joyful time with Jesus and fellow believers, taking walks and hikes in nature.
We do believe in the rapture, but according to ALL Scripture, it will be audible, visible, and literal, 1 Thess 4:15-18, Rev. 1:7 Every eye will see him.
We believe in the fellowship of all believers, that there are true Christians in every church. We also believe the the Sola Scriptura, that the Bible and the Bible alone is the authority by which all doctrine, prophets, etc. must be tested. We are in love with Jesus and the Word of God. Sadly, I have to say, that most Christians I have met of other faiths, and some of my faith, have never read the Word of God in its entirety. So how can you know what you believe if you don't read God's letter to you? In Matt. 24, Jesus said that there is a deception coming upon this world that will, if it were possible, deceive the very elect. I am convicted that if we as God's children ( I included Christians of all faiths) are not daily in the Word of God, we will be deceived by the devil before Jesus comes. The Bible says (look it up in the concordance) that Satan himself will appear as an angel of light. Let us study and drink deeply of the Word of God and the Water of Life. Jesus said in John that the Scriptures testify of Him. I believe that it is the voice of God to your soul. Read and hear the voice of God, or get it on CD. Also the books of Matthew, John and Acts portrayed on DVD by the Visual Bible are an incredible blessing.
With Christian love, in Christ,
Elma Heldzinger

[JC1949]

Pride goes before the Fall.........the only thought that fallen man can ADD or SUBTRACT from JESUS FINISHED WORK is a CLEAR demonstration that their are following ANOTHER JESUS,ANOTHER GOSPEL,ANOTHER SPIRIT....and you know where that takes you....

I have posted in the past this leaflet by Theodore Monod,I may post it again now,it is quite refreshing:

Looking Unto Jesus

by Theodore Monod translated from the French by Helen Willis

". . . looking unto Jesus . . ."
Hebrews 12:2

Only these three words,
but in these three words
is the whole secret of life.


LOOKING UNTO JESUS
IN THE SCRIPTURES, to learn there what He is, what He has done, what He gives, what He desires; to find in His character our pattern, in His teachings our instruction, in His precepts our law, in His promises our support, in His person and in His work a full satisfaction provided for every need of our souls.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
CRUCIFIED, to find in His shed blood our ransom, our pardon, our peace.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
RISEN, to find in Him the righteousness which alone makes us righteous, and permits us, all unworthy as we are, to draw near with boldness, in His name, to Him who is His Father and our Father, His God and our God.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
GLORIFIED, to find in Him our Heavenly Advocate completing by His intercession the work inspired by His lovingkindness for our salvation (1John 2:1); Who even now is appearing for us before the face of God (Heb. 9:24), the kingly Priest, the spotless Victim, continually bearing the iniquity of our holy things (Ex. 28:38).

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
REVEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, to find in constant communion with Him the cleansing of our sin-stained hearts, the illumination of our darkened spirits, the transformation of our rebel wills; enabled by Him to triumph over all attacks of the world and of the evil one, resisting their violence by Jesus our Strength, and overcoming their subtlety by Jesus our Wisdom; upheld by the sympathy of Jesus, Who was spared no temptation . . . .Who yielded to none.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
WHO GIVES REPENTANCE as well as forgiveness of sins (Acts 5:31), because He gives us the grace to recognize, to deplore, to confess, and to forsake our transgressions.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
TO RECEIVE FROM HIM the task and the cross for each day, with the grace which is sufficient to carry the cross and to accomplish the task; the grace that enables us to be patient with His patience, active with His activity, loving with His love; never asking "What am I able for?" but rather: "What is He not able for?" and waiting for His strength which is make perfect in our weakness (2Cor. 12:9).

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
TO GO FORTH FROM OURSELVES and to forget ourselves; so that our darkness may flee away before the brightness of His face; so that our joys may be holy, and our sorrow restrained; that He may

cast us down, and that He may raise us up; that He may afflict us, and that He may comfort us; that He may despoil us, and that He may enrich us; that He may teach us to pray, and that He may answer our prayers; that while leaving us in the world, He may separate us from it, our life being hidden with Him in God, and our behavior bearing witness to Him before men.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
WHO, HAVING RETURNED TO THE FATHER'S HOUSE, is engaged in preparing a place there for us; so that this joyful prospect may make us live in hope, and prepare us to die in peace, when the day shall come for us to meet this last enemy, whom He has overcome for us, whom we shall overcome through Him - so that what was once the king of terrors is today the harbinger of eternal happiness.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
WHOSE CERTAIN RETURN, at an uncertain time, is from age to age the expectation and the hope of the faithful Church, who is encouraged in her patience, watchfulness, and joy by the thought that the Savior is at hand (Phil. 4: 4-5; 1Thes. 5:23).

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
THE AUTHOR AND THE FINISHER OF OUR FAITH: that is to say, He Who is its pattern and its source, even as He is its object; and Who from the first step even to the last marches at the head of the believers; so that by Him our faith may be inspired, encouraged, sustained, and led on to its supreme consummation.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
AND AT NOTHING ELSE, as our text expresses it in one untranslatable word (aphoroontes), which at the same time directs us to fix our gaze upon Him, and to turn it away from everything else.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OURSELVES, our thoughts, our reasonings, our imaginings, our inclinations, our wishes, our plans;

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE WORLD, its customs, its example, its rules, its judgments;

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT SATAN, though he seek to terrify us by his fury, or to entice us by his flatteries. Oh! from how many useless questions we would save ourselves, from how many disturbing scruples, from how much loss of time, dangerous dallyings with evil, waste of energy, empty dreams, bitter disappointments, sorrowful struggles, and distressing falls, by looking steadily unto Jesus, and by following Him wherever He may lead us. Then we shall be too much occupied with not losing sight of the path which He marks out for us, to waste even a glance on those in which He does not think it suitable to lead us.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR CREEDS, no matter how evangelical they may be. The faith which saves, which sanctifies, and which comforts, is not giving assent to the doctrine of salvation; it is being united to the person of the Savior. "It is not enough," said Adolphe Monod, "to know about Jesus Christ, it is necessary to have Jesus Christ." To this one may add that no one truly knows Him, if he does not first possess Him. According to the profound saying of the beloved disciple, it is in the Life there is Light, and it is in Jesus there is Life (John 1:4).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR MEDITATIONS AND OUR PRAYERS, our pious conversations and our profitable reading, the holy meetings that we attend, nor even to our taking part in the supper of the Lord.

Let us faithfully use all these means of grace, but without confusing them with grace itself; and without turning our gaze away from Him Who alone makes them effectual, when, by their means, He reveals Himself to us.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO OUR POSITION IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, to the family to which we belong, to our baptism, to the education which we have received, to the doctrine which we profess, to the opinion which others have formed of our piety, or to the opinion which we have formed of it ourselves. Some of those who have prophesied in the Name of the Lord Jesus will one day hear Him say: "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:22-23); but He will confess before His Father and before His angels even the most humble of those who have looked unto Him.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO OUR BRETHREN, not even to the best among them and the most beloved. In following a man we run the risk of losing our way; in following Jesus we are sure of never losing our way. Besides, in putting a man between Jesus and ourselves, it will come to pass that insensibly the man will increase and Jesus will decrease; soon we no longer know how to find Jesus when we cannot find the man, and if he fails us, all fails. On the contrary, if Jesus is kept between us and our closest friend, our attachment to the person will be at the same time less enthralling and more deep; less passionate and more tender; less necessary and more useful; an instrument of rich blessing in the hands of God when He is pleased to make use of him; and whose absence will be a further blessing, when it may please God to dispense with him, to draw us even nearer to the only Friend who can be separated from us by "neither death nor life" (Rom. 8:38-39).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT HIS ENEMIES OR AT OUR OWN. In place of

hating them and fearing them, we shall then know how to love them and to overcome them.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE OBSTACLES which meet us in our path. As soon as we stop to consider them, they amaze us, they confuse us, they overwhelm us, incapable as we are of understanding either the reason why they are permitted, or the means by which we may overcome them. The apostle began to sink as soon as he turned to look at the waves tossed by the storm; it was while he was looking at Jesus that he walked on the waters as on a rock. The more difficult our task, the more terrifying our temptation, the more essential it is that we look only at Jesus.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR TROUBLES, to count up their number, to reckon their weight, to find perhaps a certain strange satisfaction in tasting their bitterness. apart from Jesus trouble does not sanctify, it hardens or it crushes. It produces not patience, but rebellion; not sympathy, but selfishness; not hope (Rom. 5:3) but despair. It is only under the shadow of the cross that we can appreciate the true weight of our own cross, and accept it each day from His hand, to carry it with love, with gratitude, with joy; and find in it for ourselves and for others a source of blessings.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE DEAREST, THE MOST LEGITIMATE OF OUR EARTHLY JOYS, lest we be so engrossed in them that they deprive us of the sight of the very One Who gives them to us. If we are looking at Him first of all, then it is from Him we receive these good things, made a thousand times more precious because we possess them as gifts from His loving hand, which we entrust to His keeping, to enjoy them in communion with Him, and to use them for His glory.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE INSTRUMENTS, whatever they may be which He employs to form the path which He has appointed for us. Looking beyond man, beyond circumstances, beyond the thousand causes so rightly called secondary, let us ascend as far as the first cause - His will: let us ascend even to the source of this very will - His love. Then our gratitude, without being less lively towards those who do us good, will not stop at them; then in the testing day, under the most unexpected blow, the most inexplicable, the most overwhelming, we can say with the Psalmist: "I was dumb, I opened not my mouth; because thou didst it" (Ps. 39:9). And in the silence of our dumb sorrow the heavenly voice will gently reply: "What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter" (John 13:7).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE INTERESTS OF OUR CAUSE, Of OUR PARTY, OF OUR CHURCH - still less at our personal interests. The single object of our life is the glory of God; if we do not make it the supreme goal of our efforts, we must deprive ourselves of His help, for His grace is only at the service of His glory. If, on the contrary, it is His glory that we seek above all, we can always count on His grace.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE SINCERITY OF OUR INTENTIONS, AND AT THE STRENGTH OF OUR RESOLUTIONS. Alas! how often the most excellent intentions have only prepared the way for the most humiliating falls. Let us stay ourselves, not on our intentions, but on His love; not on our resolutions, but on His promise.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR STRENGTH. Our strength is good only to glorify ourselves; to glorify God one must have the strength of God.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR WEAKNESS. By lamenting our weakness have we ever become more strong? Let us look to Jesus, and His strength will communicate itself to our hearts, His praise will break forth from our lips.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR SINS, neither at the source from which they come (Matt. 15:19) nor the chastisement which they deserve. Let us look at ourselves, only to recognize how much need we have of looking to Him; and looking to Him, certainly not as if we were sinless; but on the contrary, because we are sinners, measuring the very greatness of the offense by the greatness of the sacrifice which has atoned for it, and of the grace which pardons it. "For one look that we turn on ourselves," said an eminent servant of God (McCheyne) "let us turn ten upon Jesus." "If it is very sure," said Vinet, "that one will not lose sight of his wretched state by looking at Jesus Christ crucified - because this wretched state is, as it were, graven upon the cross - it is also very sure that in looking at one's wretchedness one can lose sight of Jesus Christ; because the cross is not naturally graven upon the image of one's wretchedness." And he adds, "Look at yourselves, but only in the presence of the cross, only through Jesus Christ." Looking at the sin only gives death; looking at Jesus gives life. That which healed the Israelite in the wilderness was not considering his wounds, but raising his eyes to the serpent of brass (Num. 21:9).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT - DO WE NEED TO SAY IT? - AT OUR PRETENSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Ill above all who are ill is he who believes himself in health; blind above the blind he who thinks that he sees (John 9:41). If it is dangerous to look long at our wretchedness which is, alas! too real; it is much more dangerous to rest complacently on imaginary merits.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE LAW. The law gives commands, and gives no strength to carry them out; the law always condemns, and never pardons. If we put ourselves back under the law, we take ourselves away from grace. In so far as we make our obedience the means of our salvation, we lose our peace, our joy, our strength; for we have forgotten that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom. 10:4). As soon as the law has constrained us to seek in Him our only Savior, then also to Him only belongs the right to command our obedience; an obedience which includes nothing less than our whole heart, and our most secret thoughts, but which has ceased from being an iron yoke, and an insupportable burden, to become an easy yoke and a light burden (Matt. 11:30). It is an obedience which He makes as delightful as it is binding, an obedience which He inspires, at the same time as He requires it, and which in very truth, is less a consequence of our salvation than it is a part of this very salvation - and, like all the rest, a free gift.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT WHAT WE ARE DOING FOR HIM. Too much occupied with our work, we can forget our Master - it is possible to have the hands full and the heart empty. When occupied with our Master, we cannot forget our work; if the heart is filled with His love, how can the hands fail to be active in His service?

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO THE APPARENT SUCCESS OF OUR EFFORTS. The apparent success is not the measure of the real success; and besides, God has not told us to succeed, but to work; it is of our work that He requires an account, and not of our success - why then concern ourselves with it? It is for us to scatter the seed, for God to gather the fruit; if not today, then it will be tomorrow; if He does not employ us to gather it, then He will employ others. Even when success is granted to us, it is always dangerous to fix our attention on it: on the one hand we are tempted to take some of the

credit of it to ourselves; on the other hand we thus accustom ourselves to abate our zeal when we cease to perceive its result, that is to say, at the very time when we should redouble our energy. To look at the success is to walk by sight; to look at Jesus, and to persevere in following Him and serving Him, inspite of all discouragements, is to walk by faith.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO THE SPIRITUAL GIFTS which we have already received, or which we are now receiving from Him. As to yesterday's grace, it has passed with yesterday's work; we can no longer make use of it, we should no longer linger over it. As to today's grace given for today's work, it is entrusted to us, not to be looked at, but to be used. We are not to gloat over it as a treasure, counting up our riches, but to spend it immediately, and remain poor, "Looking unto Jesus."

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE AMOUNT OF SORROW that our sins make us experience, or the amount of humiliation which they produce in us. If only we are humiliated by them enough to make us no longer complacent with ourselves; if only we are troubled by them enough to make us look to Jesus, so that He may deliver us from them, that is all that He asks from us; and it is also this look which more than anything else will make our tears spring and our pride fall. And when it is given to us as to Peter to weep bitterly (Luke 22:62), oh! then may our tear-dimmed eyes remain more than ever directed unto Jesus; for even our repentance will become a snare to us, if we think to blot out in some measure by our tears those sins which nothing can blot out, except the blood of the Lamb of God.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE BRIGHTNESS OF OUR JOY, the strength of our assurance, or the warmth of our love. Otherwise, when for a little time this love seems to have grown cold, this assurance to have

vanished, this joy to have failed us - either as the result of our own faithlessness, or for the trial of our faith - immediately, having lost our feelings, we think that we have lost our strength, and we allow ourselves to fall into an abyss of sorrow, even into cowardly idleness, or perhaps sinful complaints. Ah! rather let us remember that if the feelings with their sweetness, are absent, the faith with its strength remains with us. To be able always to be "abounding in the work of the Lord" (1Cor. 15:58) let us look steadily, not at our ever changeful hearts, but at Jesus, who is always the same.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE HEIGHTS OF HOLINESS to which we attained. If no one may believe himself a child of God so long as he still finds stains in his heart, and stumblings in his life, who could taste the joy of salvation? But this joy is not bought with a price. Holiness is the fruit, not the root of our redemption. It is the work of Jesus Christ for us which reconciles us unto God; it is the work of the Holy Spirit in us which renews us in His likeness. The shortcomings of a faith which is true, but not yet fully established, and bearing but little fruit, in no way lessens the fullness of the perfect work of the Savior, nor the certainty of His unchanging promise, guaranteeing life eternal unto whomsoever trusts in Him. And so to rest in the Redeemer is the true way to obey Him; and it is only when enjoying the peace of forgiveness that the soul is strong for the conflict.
If there are any who abuse this blessed truth by giving themselves over unscrupulously to spiritual idleness, imagining that they can let the faith which they think they have take the place of the holiness which they have not, they should remember this solemn warning of the Apostle Paul: "They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and the lusts" (Gal. 5:24); and that of the Apostle John: "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1John 2:4); and that of the Lord Jesus Himself, "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire" (Matt. 7:19).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR DEFEATS OR VICTORIES. If we look at our defeats we shall be cast down; if we look at our victories we shall be puffed up. And neither will help us to fight the good fight of faith (1Tim. 6:12). Like all our blessings, the victory, with the faith which wins it, it the gift of God through our Lord Jesus Christ (1Cor. 15:57), and to Him is all the glory.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR DOUBTS. The more we look at them the larger they appear, until they can swallow up all our faith, our strength, and our joy. But if we look away from them to our Lord Jesus, Who is the Truth (John 14:6), the doubts will scatter in the light of His presence like clouds before the sun.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR FAITH. The last device of the adversary, when he cannot make us look elsewhere, is to turn our eyes from the Savior to our faith, and thus to discourage us if it is weak, to fill us with pride if it is strong: and either way to weaken us. For power does not come from the faith, but from the Savior by faith. It is not looking at our look, it is "looking unto Jesus,"

UNTO JESUS
AND IT IS FROM HIM AND IN HIM that we learn to know (not only without danger, but for the well-being of our souls) what it is good for us to know about the world and about ourselves, our sorrows and our dangers, our resources and our victories: seeing everything in its true light, because it is He Who shows them to us, and that only at the time and in the proportion in which this knowledge will produce in us the fruits of humility and wisdom, gratitude and courage, watchfulness and prayer. All that it is desirable for us to know, the Lord Jesus will teach us; all that we do not learn from Him, it is better for us not to know.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
AS LONG AS WE REMAIN ON THE EARTH - unto Jesus from moment to moment, without allowing ourselves to be distracted by memories of a past which we should leave behind us, nor by occupation with a future of which we know nothing

UNTO JESUS NOW
IF WE HAVE NEVER LOOKED UNTO HIM --

UNTO JESUS AFRESH,
IF WE HAVE CEASED DOING SO --

UNTO JESUS ONLY,

UNTO JESUS STILL,

UNTO JESUS ALWAYS --
WITH A GAZE MORE AND MORE CONSTANT, more and more confident, "changed into the same image from glory to glory" (2Cor. 3:18). Thus we await the hour when He will call us to pass from earth to Heaven, and from time to eternity --
The promised hour,
the blessed hour
when at last "we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1John 3:2).


"Looking Unto Jesus" was brought to our attention by Margaret Park. She had a copy of it in booklet form last printed in 1960 by Back to the Bible Publishers. For a recent printing write to them at Box 82808, Lincoln, NE. 68501.

and may I add...THE GOSPEL is NOT ONLY A MESSAGE,RATHER A PERSON,A GLORIOUS ONE,THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.....
so ALL the SECTS,CULTS,and FALSE PROPHET are just that FALSE and THE ADVENTIST are FALSE PROPHETS....

SHALOM

[Robert]

Pride goes before the Fall.........the only thought that fallen man can ADD or SUBTRACT from JESUS FINISHED WORK is a CLEAR demonstration that their are following ANOTHER JESUS,ANOTHER GOSPEL,ANOTHER SPIRIT....and you know where that takes you....

I have posted in the past this leaflet by Theodore Monod,I may post it again now,it is quite refreshing:

Looking Unto Jesus

by Theodore Monod translated from the French by Helen Willis

". . . looking unto Jesus . . ."
Hebrews 12:2

Only these three words,
but in these three words
is the whole secret of life.


LOOKING UNTO JESUS
IN THE SCRIPTURES, to learn there what He is, what He has done, what He gives, what He desires; to find in His character our pattern, in His teachings our instruction, in His precepts our law, in His promises our support, in His person and in His work a full satisfaction provided for every need of our souls.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
CRUCIFIED, to find in His shed blood our ransom, our pardon, our peace.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
RISEN, to find in Him the righteousness which alone makes us righteous, and permits us, all unworthy as we are, to draw near with boldness, in His name, to Him who is His Father and our Father, His God and our God.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
GLORIFIED, to find in Him our Heavenly Advocate completing by His intercession the work inspired by His lovingkindness for our salvation (1John 2:1); Who even now is appearing for us before the face of God (Heb. 9:24), the kingly Priest, the spotless Victim, continually bearing the iniquity of our holy things (Ex. 28:38).

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
REVEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, to find in constant communion with Him the cleansing of our sin-stained hearts, the illumination of our darkened spirits, the transformation of our rebel wills; enabled by Him to triumph over all attacks of the world and of the evil one, resisting their violence by Jesus our Strength, and overcoming their subtlety by Jesus our Wisdom; upheld by the sympathy of Jesus, Who was spared no temptation . . . .Who yielded to none.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
WHO GIVES REPENTANCE as well as forgiveness of sins (Acts 5:31), because He gives us the grace to recognize, to deplore, to confess, and to forsake our transgressions.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
TO RECEIVE FROM HIM the task and the cross for each day, with the grace which is sufficient to carry the cross and to accomplish the task; the grace that enables us to be patient with His patience, active with His activity, loving with His love; never asking "What am I able for?" but rather: "What is He not able for?" and waiting for His strength which is make perfect in our weakness (2Cor. 12:9).

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
TO GO FORTH FROM OURSELVES and to forget ourselves; so that our darkness may flee away before the brightness of His face; so that our joys may be holy, and our sorrow restrained; that He may

cast us down, and that He may raise us up; that He may afflict us, and that He may comfort us; that He may despoil us, and that He may enrich us; that He may teach us to pray, and that He may answer our prayers; that while leaving us in the world, He may separate us from it, our life being hidden with Him in God, and our behavior bearing witness to Him before men.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
WHO, HAVING RETURNED TO THE FATHER'S HOUSE, is engaged in preparing a place there for us; so that this joyful prospect may make us live in hope, and prepare us to die in peace, when the day shall come for us to meet this last enemy, whom He has overcome for us, whom we shall overcome through Him - so that what was once the king of terrors is today the harbinger of eternal happiness.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
WHOSE CERTAIN RETURN, at an uncertain time, is from age to age the expectation and the hope of the faithful Church, who is encouraged in her patience, watchfulness, and joy by the thought that the Savior is at hand (Phil. 4: 4-5; 1Thes. 5:23).

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
THE AUTHOR AND THE FINISHER OF OUR FAITH: that is to say, He Who is its pattern and its source, even as He is its object; and Who from the first step even to the last marches at the head of the believers; so that by Him our faith may be inspired, encouraged, sustained, and led on to its supreme consummation.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
AND AT NOTHING ELSE, as our text expresses it in one untranslatable word (aphoroontes), which at the same time directs us to fix our gaze upon Him, and to turn it away from everything else.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OURSELVES, our thoughts, our reasonings, our imaginings, our inclinations, our wishes, our plans;

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE WORLD, its customs, its example, its rules, its judgments;

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT SATAN, though he seek to terrify us by his fury, or to entice us by his flatteries. Oh! from how many useless questions we would save ourselves, from how many disturbing scruples, from how much loss of time, dangerous dallyings with evil, waste of energy, empty dreams, bitter disappointments, sorrowful struggles, and distressing falls, by looking steadily unto Jesus, and by following Him wherever He may lead us. Then we shall be too much occupied with not losing sight of the path which He marks out for us, to waste even a glance on those in which He does not think it suitable to lead us.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR CREEDS, no matter how evangelical they may be. The faith which saves, which sanctifies, and which comforts, is not giving assent to the doctrine of salvation; it is being united to the person of the Savior. "It is not enough," said Adolphe Monod, "to know about Jesus Christ, it is necessary to have Jesus Christ." To this one may add that no one truly knows Him, if he does not first possess Him. According to the profound saying of the beloved disciple, it is in the Life there is Light, and it is in Jesus there is Life (John 1:4).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR MEDITATIONS AND OUR PRAYERS, our pious conversations and our profitable reading, the holy meetings that we attend, nor even to our taking part in the supper of the Lord.

Let us faithfully use all these means of grace, but without confusing them with grace itself; and without turning our gaze away from Him Who alone makes them effectual, when, by their means, He reveals Himself to us.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO OUR POSITION IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, to the family to which we belong, to our baptism, to the education which we have received, to the doctrine which we profess, to the opinion which others have formed of our piety, or to the opinion which we have formed of it ourselves. Some of those who have prophesied in the Name of the Lord Jesus will one day hear Him say: "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:22-23); but He will confess before His Father and before His angels even the most humble of those who have looked unto Him.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO OUR BRETHREN, not even to the best among them and the most beloved. In following a man we run the risk of losing our way; in following Jesus we are sure of never losing our way. Besides, in putting a man between Jesus and ourselves, it will come to pass that insensibly the man will increase and Jesus will decrease; soon we no longer know how to find Jesus when we cannot find the man, and if he fails us, all fails. On the contrary, if Jesus is kept between us and our closest friend, our attachment to the person will be at the same time less enthralling and more deep; less passionate and more tender; less necessary and more useful; an instrument of rich blessing in the hands of God when He is pleased to make use of him; and whose absence will be a further blessing, when it may please God to dispense with him, to draw us even nearer to the only Friend who can be separated from us by "neither death nor life" (Rom. 8:38-39).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT HIS ENEMIES OR AT OUR OWN. In place of

hating them and fearing them, we shall then know how to love them and to overcome them.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE OBSTACLES which meet us in our path. As soon as we stop to consider them, they amaze us, they confuse us, they overwhelm us, incapable as we are of understanding either the reason why they are permitted, or the means by which we may overcome them. The apostle began to sink as soon as he turned to look at the waves tossed by the storm; it was while he was looking at Jesus that he walked on the waters as on a rock. The more difficult our task, the more terrifying our temptation, the more essential it is that we look only at Jesus.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR TROUBLES, to count up their number, to reckon their weight, to find perhaps a certain strange satisfaction in tasting their bitterness. apart from Jesus trouble does not sanctify, it hardens or it crushes. It produces not patience, but rebellion; not sympathy, but selfishness; not hope (Rom. 5:3) but despair. It is only under the shadow of the cross that we can appreciate the true weight of our own cross, and accept it each day from His hand, to carry it with love, with gratitude, with joy; and find in it for ourselves and for others a source of blessings.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE DEAREST, THE MOST LEGITIMATE OF OUR EARTHLY JOYS, lest we be so engrossed in them that they deprive us of the sight of the very One Who gives them to us. If we are looking at Him first of all, then it is from Him we receive these good things, made a thousand times more precious because we possess them as gifts from His loving hand, which we entrust to His keeping, to enjoy them in communion with Him, and to use them for His glory.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE INSTRUMENTS, whatever they may be which He employs to form the path which He has appointed for us. Looking beyond man, beyond circumstances, beyond the thousand causes so rightly called secondary, let us ascend as far as the first cause - His will: let us ascend even to the source of this very will - His love. Then our gratitude, without being less lively towards those who do us good, will not stop at them; then in the testing day, under the most unexpected blow, the most inexplicable, the most overwhelming, we can say with the Psalmist: "I was dumb, I opened not my mouth; because thou didst it" (Ps. 39:9). And in the silence of our dumb sorrow the heavenly voice will gently reply: "What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter" (John 13:7).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE INTERESTS OF OUR CAUSE, Of OUR PARTY, OF OUR CHURCH - still less at our personal interests. The single object of our life is the glory of God; if we do not make it the supreme goal of our efforts, we must deprive ourselves of His help, for His grace is only at the service of His glory. If, on the contrary, it is His glory that we seek above all, we can always count on His grace.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE SINCERITY OF OUR INTENTIONS, AND AT THE STRENGTH OF OUR RESOLUTIONS. Alas! how often the most excellent intentions have only prepared the way for the most humiliating falls. Let us stay ourselves, not on our intentions, but on His love; not on our resolutions, but on His promise.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR STRENGTH. Our strength is good only to glorify ourselves; to glorify God one must have the strength of God.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR WEAKNESS. By lamenting our weakness have we ever become more strong? Let us look to Jesus, and His strength will communicate itself to our hearts, His praise will break forth from our lips.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR SINS, neither at the source from which they come (Matt. 15:19) nor the chastisement which they deserve. Let us look at ourselves, only to recognize how much need we have of looking to Him; and looking to Him, certainly not as if we were sinless; but on the contrary, because we are sinners, measuring the very greatness of the offense by the greatness of the sacrifice which has atoned for it, and of the grace which pardons it. "For one look that we turn on ourselves," said an eminent servant of God (McCheyne) "let us turn ten upon Jesus." "If it is very sure," said Vinet, "that one will not lose sight of his wretched state by looking at Jesus Christ crucified - because this wretched state is, as it were, graven upon the cross - it is also very sure that in looking at one's wretchedness one can lose sight of Jesus Christ; because the cross is not naturally graven upon the image of one's wretchedness." And he adds, "Look at yourselves, but only in the presence of the cross, only through Jesus Christ." Looking at the sin only gives death; looking at Jesus gives life. That which healed the Israelite in the wilderness was not considering his wounds, but raising his eyes to the serpent of brass (Num. 21:9).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT - DO WE NEED TO SAY IT? - AT OUR PRETENSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Ill above all who are ill is he who believes himself in health; blind above the blind he who thinks that he sees (John 9:41). If it is dangerous to look long at our wretchedness which is, alas! too real; it is much more dangerous to rest complacently on imaginary merits.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE LAW. The law gives commands, and gives no strength to carry them out; the law always condemns, and never pardons. If we put ourselves back under the law, we take ourselves away from grace. In so far as we make our obedience the means of our salvation, we lose our peace, our joy, our strength; for we have forgotten that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom. 10:4). As soon as the law has constrained us to seek in Him our only Savior, then also to Him only belongs the right to command our obedience; an obedience which includes nothing less than our whole heart, and our most secret thoughts, but which has ceased from being an iron yoke, and an insupportable burden, to become an easy yoke and a light burden (Matt. 11:30). It is an obedience which He makes as delightful as it is binding, an obedience which He inspires, at the same time as He requires it, and which in very truth, is less a consequence of our salvation than it is a part of this very salvation - and, like all the rest, a free gift.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT WHAT WE ARE DOING FOR HIM. Too much occupied with our work, we can forget our Master - it is possible to have the hands full and the heart empty. When occupied with our Master, we cannot forget our work; if the heart is filled with His love, how can the hands fail to be active in His service?

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO THE APPARENT SUCCESS OF OUR EFFORTS. The apparent success is not the measure of the real success; and besides, God has not told us to succeed, but to work; it is of our work that He requires an account, and not of our success - why then concern ourselves with it? It is for us to scatter the seed, for God to gather the fruit; if not today, then it will be tomorrow; if He does not employ us to gather it, then He will employ others. Even when success is granted to us, it is always dangerous to fix our attention on it: on the one hand we are tempted to take some of the

credit of it to ourselves; on the other hand we thus accustom ourselves to abate our zeal when we cease to perceive its result, that is to say, at the very time when we should redouble our energy. To look at the success is to walk by sight; to look at Jesus, and to persevere in following Him and serving Him, inspite of all discouragements, is to walk by faith.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT TO THE SPIRITUAL GIFTS which we have already received, or which we are now receiving from Him. As to yesterday's grace, it has passed with yesterday's work; we can no longer make use of it, we should no longer linger over it. As to today's grace given for today's work, it is entrusted to us, not to be looked at, but to be used. We are not to gloat over it as a treasure, counting up our riches, but to spend it immediately, and remain poor, "Looking unto Jesus."

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE AMOUNT OF SORROW that our sins make us experience, or the amount of humiliation which they produce in us. If only we are humiliated by them enough to make us no longer complacent with ourselves; if only we are troubled by them enough to make us look to Jesus, so that He may deliver us from them, that is all that He asks from us; and it is also this look which more than anything else will make our tears spring and our pride fall. And when it is given to us as to Peter to weep bitterly (Luke 22:62), oh! then may our tear-dimmed eyes remain more than ever directed unto Jesus; for even our repentance will become a snare to us, if we think to blot out in some measure by our tears those sins which nothing can blot out, except the blood of the Lamb of God.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE BRIGHTNESS OF OUR JOY, the strength of our assurance, or the warmth of our love. Otherwise, when for a little time this love seems to have grown cold, this assurance to have

vanished, this joy to have failed us - either as the result of our own faithlessness, or for the trial of our faith - immediately, having lost our feelings, we think that we have lost our strength, and we allow ourselves to fall into an abyss of sorrow, even into cowardly idleness, or perhaps sinful complaints. Ah! rather let us remember that if the feelings with their sweetness, are absent, the faith with its strength remains with us. To be able always to be "abounding in the work of the Lord" (1Cor. 15:58) let us look steadily, not at our ever changeful hearts, but at Jesus, who is always the same.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT THE HEIGHTS OF HOLINESS to which we attained. If no one may believe himself a child of God so long as he still finds stains in his heart, and stumblings in his life, who could taste the joy of salvation? But this joy is not bought with a price. Holiness is the fruit, not the root of our redemption. It is the work of Jesus Christ for us which reconciles us unto God; it is the work of the Holy Spirit in us which renews us in His likeness. The shortcomings of a faith which is true, but not yet fully established, and bearing but little fruit, in no way lessens the fullness of the perfect work of the Savior, nor the certainty of His unchanging promise, guaranteeing life eternal unto whomsoever trusts in Him. And so to rest in the Redeemer is the true way to obey Him; and it is only when enjoying the peace of forgiveness that the soul is strong for the conflict.
If there are any who abuse this blessed truth by giving themselves over unscrupulously to spiritual idleness, imagining that they can let the faith which they think they have take the place of the holiness which they have not, they should remember this solemn warning of the Apostle Paul: "They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and the lusts" (Gal. 5:24); and that of the Apostle John: "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1John 2:4); and that of the Lord Jesus Himself, "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire" (Matt. 7:19).

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR DEFEATS OR VICTORIES. If we look at our defeats we shall be cast down; if we look at our victories we shall be puffed up. And neither will help us to fight the good fight of faith (1Tim. 6:12). Like all our blessings, the victory, with the faith which wins it, it the gift of God through our Lord Jesus Christ (1Cor. 15:57), and to Him is all the glory.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR DOUBTS. The more we look at them the larger they appear, until they can swallow up all our faith, our strength, and our joy. But if we look away from them to our Lord Jesus, Who is the Truth (John 14:6), the doubts will scatter in the light of His presence like clouds before the sun.

UNTO JESUS
AND NOT AT OUR FAITH. The last device of the adversary, when he cannot make us look elsewhere, is to turn our eyes from the Savior to our faith, and thus to discourage us if it is weak, to fill us with pride if it is strong: and either way to weaken us. For power does not come from the faith, but from the Savior by faith. It is not looking at our look, it is "looking unto Jesus,"

UNTO JESUS
AND IT IS FROM HIM AND IN HIM that we learn to know (not only without danger, but for the well-being of our souls) what it is good for us to know about the world and about ourselves, our sorrows and our dangers, our resources and our victories: seeing everything in its true light, because it is He Who shows them to us, and that only at the time and in the proportion in which this knowledge will produce in us the fruits of humility and wisdom, gratitude and courage, watchfulness and prayer. All that it is desirable for us to know, the Lord Jesus will teach us; all that we do not learn from Him, it is better for us not to know.

LOOKING UNTO JESUS
AS LONG AS WE REMAIN ON THE EARTH - unto Jesus from moment to moment, without allowing ourselves to be distracted by memories of a past which we should leave behind us, nor by occupation with a future of which we know nothing

UNTO JESUS NOW
IF WE HAVE NEVER LOOKED UNTO HIM --

UNTO JESUS AFRESH,
IF WE HAVE CEASED DOING SO --

UNTO JESUS ONLY,

UNTO JESUS STILL,

UNTO JESUS ALWAYS --
WITH A GAZE MORE AND MORE CONSTANT, more and more confident, "changed into the same image from glory to glory" (2Cor. 3:18). Thus we await the hour when He will call us to pass from earth to Heaven, and from time to eternity --
The promised hour,
the blessed hour
when at last "we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1John 3:2).


"Looking Unto Jesus" was brought to our attention by Margaret Park. She had a copy of it in booklet form last printed in 1960 by Back to the Bible Publishers. For a recent printing write to them at Box 82808, Lincoln, NE. 68501.

and may I add...THE GOSPEL is NOT ONLY A MESSAGE,RATHER A PERSON,A GLORIOUS ONE,THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.....
so ALL the SECTS,CULTS,and FALSE PROPHET are just that FALSE and THE ADVENTIST are FALSE PROPHETS....

SHALOM

Well spoken, jesuschangesall!

[Hannah]

I am a Seventh Day Adventist Christian, and I want to testify that as a church and people we believe in the death of Jesus as our only hope and salvation, in the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and that only by being a born again Christian that any of us can be saved. Of course, there are hypocrits in every church, my church has its share, and legalism is also a ditch Satan has for any of us (thinking we might be saved by what we do), but anyone who says that SDA Christians believe that they are saved by their works, has not done their research well. We totally agree that it is only by the work, life, death and resurrection of Jesus that we can be saved. However, we also believe that the 10 commandment law of God was given to all people for all time. That it was never ok to murder, commit adultery, steal, profane God's name, or forget to remember God's Sabbath. Most Christians believe in 9 of the 10 commandments, but sadly, neglect for the sake of their own convenience, to remember the 4th commandment, of God's holy day - which was given as a blessing to all mankind, to rest and fellowship with their fellow man and their Jesus. In this age of stress and stress-related diseases, we as a SDA people are so thankful for the blessing of the 24 hour period of the Sabbath, when we set all secular work aside, prepare before, and welcome a joyful time with Jesus and fellow believers, taking walks and hikes in nature.
We do believe in the rapture, but according to ALL Scripture, it will be audible, visible, and literal, 1 Thess 4:15-18, Rev. 1:7 Every eye will see him.
We believe in the fellowship of all believers, that there are true Christians in every church. We also believe the the Sola Scriptura, that the Bible and the Bible alone is the authority by which all doctrine, prophets, etc. must be tested. We are in love with Jesus and the Word of God. Sadly, I have to say, that most Christians I have met of other faiths, and some of my faith, have never read the Word of God in its entirety. So how can you know what you believe if you don't read God's letter to you? In Matt. 24, Jesus said that there is a deception coming upon this world that will, if it were possible, deceive the very elect. I am convicted that if we as God's children ( I included Christians of all faiths) are not daily in the Word of God, we will be deceived by the devil before Jesus comes. The Bible says (look it up in the concordance) that Satan himself will appear as an angel of light. Let us study and drink deeply of the Word of God and the Water of Life. Jesus said in John that the Scriptures testify of Him. I believe that it is the voice of God to your soul. Read and hear the voice of God, or get it on CD. Also the books of Matthew, John and Acts portrayed on DVD by the Visual Bible are an incredible blessing.
With Christian love, in Christ,
Elma Heldzinger

Unfortunately not all Seventh Day Adventists have the same stance on Jesus, salvation and the authority of the Bible. Actually you are the first I have come across that does. I'm glad to hear you agree that one needs to repent and only the Blood of Jesus can provide forgiveness for our sins.

The Word of God is the key for all scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching,correction and training in righteousness. Amen

Meanwhile on another forum there are several Seventh Day Adventists there denying the deity of Jesus and teaching that the wicked cease to exist when they are thrown into the Lake of Eternal Fire. We haven't gotten past these two yet. Jesus not being God is a biggy and taking up all our time at the moment.

I go to an Anglican Church in Sydney Australia and we are by no means liberal as some of our counterparts which are referred to in some places as the Episcopal church. So I understand that there are differences in the same denomination.

Most of what you said I would agree with as a Born Again Believer, however who do you think Jesus really is?

Basically there are two things I will ask you if you don't mind? Please feel free not to answer but I would like to know if you can answer these 2 vital questions.

1) Do you believe in the Trinity?

2) Do you believe Jesus is God come in flesh?

Because there is where we would be different if your answer is NO to either or both of these.

You see your understanding of WHO Jesus is will mean you have a different interpretation of the scriptures than the Born Again Believer (of a mainstream old school conservative Protestant faith).

[mattfivefour]

Unfortunately not all Seventh Day Adventists have the same stance on Jesus, salvation and the authority of the Bible. Actually you are the first I have come across that does. I'm glad to hear you agree that one needs to repent and only the Blood of Jesus can provide forgiveness for our sins.

The Word of God is the key for all scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching,correction and training in righteousness. Amen

Meanwhile on another forum there are several Seventh Day Adventists there denying the deity of Jesus and teaching that the wicked cease to exist when they are thrown into the Lake of Eternal Fire. We haven't gotten past these two yet. Jesus not being God is a biggy and taking up all our time at the moment.

I go to an Anglican Church in Sydney Australia and we are by no means liberal as some of our counterparts which are referred to in some places as the Episcopal church. So I understand that there are differences in the same denomination.

Most of what you said I would agree with as a Born Again Believer, however who do you think Jesus really is?

Basically there are two things I will ask you if you don't mind? Please feel free not to answer but I would like to know if you can answer these 2 vital questions.

1) Do you believe in the Trinity?

2) Do you believe Jesus is God come in flesh?

Because there is where we would be different if your answer is NO to either or both of these.

You see your understanding of WHO Jesus is will mean you have a different interpretation of the scriptures than the Born Again Believer (of a mainstream old school conservative Protestant faith).

Those questions are not just important, but crucial.

When Romans tells us that you are saved if you "confess with your mouth" and "believe in your heart" (Romans 10:9), it is telling us more than "confess" (as we understand the word today) Jesus. But the word "confess" means much more than "to say" or even "to say publicly". In the original Greek in which Paul wrote, the verb which it translates is from the compound root ὁμολογέω (homologeo, pronounced homm-oll-log-EH-oh) which is made up of two words meaning "to speak" and "the same" (or "together"). It literally means "to speak the same thing", or "to speak the same thing together". The same thing as whom? And about what? From the context it is clear that it is to say the same thing as God about Jesus Christ. That is why I said it is crucial to know exactly what God says about Jesus in Scripture ... because that is the only place God speaks.

In short, God says Jesus is His only begotten Son, that He is Himself God, and that He is the ONLY way of salvation. To be able to agree with God—to speak in perfect agreement with Him— that you KNOW that this is absolutely true, with all of your heart, is the meaning of "confess" as Paul wrote it. Further we can glean more information from this verse—indeed this word—if we note the grammar.

The verb ὁμολογέω in Romans 10:9 appears in the form ὁμολογήσῃς (homologeses, pronounced homm-oll-log-GAY-sayss). This means it is the second person singular, aorist tense, active voice, subjunctive mood. So the Holy Spirit here is talking to one person. (God always speaks to us individually, even in a group. Our relationship with Him is personal.) He is speaking actively, so this is something we have to do. The subordinate clause in which it appears is a conditional clause (it is introduced by the word ἐὰν which means "if") which means that we have a choice. It is a subjunctive, which means that it is in the mood of possibility. In other words it is something that will happen if the condition is m,but at the time of writing it is yet a possibility. But the fact that it is in subjunctive combined with the peculiar Greek tense we call aorist means that it is a punctiliar action, not a durative one. In other words, it is not something that is done repeatedly, but rather something that is done at one very specific point in time. This revel;a to us that the moment we truly believe in our heart to the degree that we use our mouth to openly agree with God about who Jesus is and what He did ... we are saved. Salvation is not a process, but rather a once for all action that takes place instantly.

THAT is why it is so important to believe EXACTLY how God describes His Son in His Word, rather than the doctrines of man.

I pray this helps someone.

Matt

[Hannah]

Mattfivefour,

Yes a different interpretation is not an acceptable interpretation. I was just pointing out that you can only be the same if you agree on the same. Otherwise it is a different gospel.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

I have spent some time on Seventh Day Adventist websites checking out their statement of beliefs and teachings. It is only right to do so after we have been accused of not taking the initiative to find out exactly what the Seventh Day Adventist Church does adhere to in their own doctrines.

Wikipedia is not the most reliable source, anyone can get on there and write what they think or like. SO I have taken the time to do my reserach on official Seventh Day Adventist websites where they have their doctrines and beliefs available for those who want to find read them.

To be fair to our newest member they do believe in the Trinity and they do say Jesus is God.

HOWEVER, there is no mention of the word to repent or repentance. They do teach turning from sin to obedience as a Saved Believer but not repentance (not even under baptism). Take a look at their fundamental beliefs from their own website below.

Adventist.org: The Official Site of the Seventh-Day Adventist World Church


My other concern is that they teach that the wicked cease to exist after being judged so they don't live for ever in the Eternal Lake of Fire. Contrary to what was taught to us by Jesus (Matt 25:44-46) and clearly described in Revelation (Rev 14:9-12), also by Paul (2Thess 1:5-10).

So there are some clear differences I have a problem with and so find I could not agree with the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

I just want to point out as well that although these modern day statement of Beliefs by the Seventh Day Adventist now state they believe in the Trinity and Jesus as God it was not always so. Their own history records that two of the founders of the Church clearly did not believe in the Trinity.

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch...%20History.pdf

This is how we get the variations in denominations of all kinds today. There are often changes in what a denomination believes and some will go on with the old and some will take on the new.



I am happy to embrace anyone as brother or sister in Christ who has repented and received Christ's death for the forgiveness of their sins, who understands the diety of Christ that enabled him to be the perfect sacrifice and only way to be reconcilied with God. Maybe they are not fully aware of all the criteria because they are babies in Christ, it took me a few years to understand it at this level. Then many more to get across most of the other fundamental teachings of the Bible. However if they claim to be a mature Christian they will be able to clearly express the basis on which they think they are Saved when asked.

So fundamentally our idea of salvation through Christ is NOT the same and hence it is a different Gospel as Mattfivefour clearly outlined in his post on the matter.

You may think that I am nitpicking but God has made it clear through the Bible there has to be repentance.

MK 1:14 After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"


LK 5:31 Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

AC 5:29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! 30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

AC 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."

HEB 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.

Yes we are forgiven for our sins by the Blood of Jesus shed for us on the Cross. However when I became a Christian through Protestant Evangelicals on my University Campus many years ago they stressed that one must Repent and Receive the forgiveness of Sins through Christ's death.

2PE 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Without repentance we cannot receive forgiveness. So I have to conclude that there is a fundamental error in the Seventh Day Adventists theology on salvation as I have not been able to find anywhere in their doctrines or statements of belief the teaching of repentance.

Hence it is not the same Gospel as that of the Protestant Church. As I have mentioned denominations have changed over the years and some Protestant churches ahve let go of what they used to believe. So to avoid confusion what we do believe it as follows:-


See the first post in the following thread:- Rapture Ready

Also the following link also explains the need for repentance.

What is repentance and is it necessary for salvation?

So Chickiebabe,

The Seventah Day Adventists don't believe the same as I do or other mainstream conservative Protestants who are "Born Again Believers". It takes more than just believing in what Jesus did for you or having faith in Christ, it requires repentance. Even the Demons believe God's Truth, that doesn't make them Saved.

[Christo]

...that's some pretty messed up thinking! Very sad to think this is what they follow.



Thats a good one Buzzard Hut...I'll have to remember that line!!!

Cliche's will not win the day. Jesus is clear: "By their fruits shall you know them. And here He is talking about Scribes and Pharisees and false prophets, and by extension to us. The apostle Paul confirms that the true New Birth is productive. It is a powerless, ignorant and uncommitted Christian world that has opened the floodgates to Atheism, Evolution and Islam in the Western World.
"...being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God." Phillipians 1:11 NKJV

If you "born Agains" (so-called) can say that you are preaching the Gospel in all the World, that you operate the largest private School system in the World (outside of Catholocism) them I might begin to be isnterested in what you have. Otherwise, all this vituoperation against the SDA Church is just so much hot air.

[Christo]

I’ve been searching the bible for answers and I’ve had a few questions on my mind lately.
1. “Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7 KJV)
I know we are covered by grace, but what are we being judged on?

2. “Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Revelation 12:7 NIV)
If the devil has no role in the plan for salvation, what is the dragon?

[COLOR="royalblue"]1. We are saved by grace through faith. But we are judged by our response to God's grace. John the Revelator puts it thus: And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Rev 20:12, 13 NKJV


2. The Bible is clear that the dragon is Satan.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; Rev 20:2 NKJV

Devil means "Accuser" and Satan "Adversary" Remember Job 1 and 2 where Satan visited Heaven and how he subsequently, tried to destroy Job's faith by physically attacking him. Ultimately Satan will be punsished as responsible for the evil that is so extant on Planet Earth.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Rev 12:10 KJV

Read the whole chaptert.

[mattfivefour]

Cliche's will not win the day. Jesus is clear: "By their fruits shall you know them. And here He is talking about Scribes and Pharisees and false prophets, and by extension to us. The apostle Paul confirms that the true New Birth is productive. It is a powerless, ignorant and uncommitted Christian world that has opened the floodgates to Atheism, Evolution and Islam in the Western World.
"...being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God." Phillipians 1:11 NKJV

Christos, I agree with you in this. It is a desire to be obedient to God and to please Him in all things, a deep longing to be as close as possible to Him that marks true conversion. A person whom God has saved is a new creation. Old things are passed away, all things have become new in their life. It does not mean they are sinless or perfect; it means that they desperately want to be obedient. The Bible is clear that when one is contrite and broken in heart, the Holy Spirit can work in them. And it is the Holy Spirit ALONE who can make a Christian a Christian ... in fact as well as in theory, in condition as well as in position.

If you "born Agains" (so-called) ...

So-called? Why so-called? The Bible clearly says that true Christians have indeed been given a "new birth" and thus they are indeed "born again", being born from above. And if a man claims salvation, it can only be through his faith in the all-sufficient, once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus at Calvary. Our being born again is not something we decide we are, but what God tells us we are upon the simple exercise of that faith.

... can say that you are preaching the Gospel in all the World, that you operate the largest private School system in the World (outside of Catholocism) them I might begin to be isnterested in what you have.

I am not sure what the largest private school system int he world has to do with anything. In fact I have never heard anyone say that, though I am sure somebody surely has ... likely referring to Sunday School. But that really has nothing to do with being a true Christian.

I can tell you that in my life I am preaching the gospel in my world—that world immediately around me in which I live—and I support missionaries and ministries that take the gospel to the many various parts of the world where I can not go ... as do all true Christians, I would suggest, including the people that I know on this site. But what does that have to do with your being interested in what we "have" ... unless what you are saying is "show me your fruit and prove to me you are a Christian." That is fair enough. James says that it is our works that show we have saving faith. But you need to see our lives to know that, not just sit and judge at a distance people whom you do not know.

I have no sense that I am a wonderful person. I have no sense of any personal holiness. I have no sense that I am doing any great thing for the Lord. But I do know that I am saved. I do know that He has changed me from whom I was. And so do all those who know me now and who knew me before. When I share with new people whom I meet what I was like before I accepted God's only way of salvation through faith alone in Jesus Christ, most refuse to believe me. Others give me the benefit of the doubt but say "I can't see you ever being like that." But, you see, as they look at me now they must see Christ in me. I say "must" because I cannot account for it any other way. Certainly I do not think of myself as being Christ-like. I am far too aware of my flaws to ever consider myself within a trillion miles of the edge of the border of the hem of Christ-likeness. Yet I know that the Holy Spirit indeed is working in me and I am not what I once was.

My concern in what you have written is that you are sitting judging. And judging without knowing. God's Word clearly tells us that while we are indeed to judge many things, we are not to judge one another's hearts. Rather we are told to judge ourselves. And when we do, I can guarantee you that we stand before the Presence of God beating our chests like the wretched publican, crying "Be merciful to me a sinner"; rather than looking at others and saying "God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; and I pay tithes of all that I get."

Being a Christian is not a matter of doing ... but of being. Our focus should be on being in Christ, not on doing things for Him. And I can assure you just as confidently as I assured you above of the true fruit of honest self-examination that, when we concentrate on being in Christ, our lives will manifest His nature and the very acts of Jesus Christ will be accomplished through us on this earth.

Otherwise, all this vituoperation against the SDA Church is just so much hot air.

There is no overly harsh and violent denunciation of the SDA here. There is simply a comparison of SDA teaching with the totality of scripture with the result that SDA teaching comes up both as unscriptural and, in at least one point, anti-scriptural. KNowing this, it is our duty as given by God's Word and as prompted by the love of God within our hearts to warn others of these things.

Now it may be that the occasional poster, due to a surplus of zeal, prompted more by the letter than the Spirit, may make overly critical or harsh statements. But their motive—warning others of danger—are right. I wish all men (and women) used the wisdom and the gentleness that Christ desired us to have (Matthew 10:16). Indeed the Holy Spirit reinforces this passage in James 3:13—"Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." But all are not at that point yet. We are all at varying paths on the road to sanctification. All are saved and all have eternal life, for that is guaranteed solely by true faith in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. But the perfecting of the saints here on this earth, God's work in changing us outwardly into the expression of His pure nature which he has planted as a seed within ... in other words, his bringing forth the fruit from that seed in us, the fruit which will give evidence that we are more and more useful vessels and instruments of His purposes in this present world ... is a process.

I pray the zeal for God that I seem to discern behind your comments be aimed as much at yourself as you have aimed it at others here. When it is, there will be no self-righteousness in judging the "Christianity" of others but rather a wretched regard for yourself and a gentle bearing up—through prayer and comfort—of the burdens born to one degree or another by all of your brothers and sisters in this flesh.

May God work out perfect His will in your life.

Matt

[Hannah]

Cliche's will not win the day. Jesus is clear: "By their fruits shall you know them. And here He is talking about Scribes and Pharisees and false prophets, and by extension to us. The apostle Paul confirms that the true New Birth is productive. It is a powerless, ignorant and uncommitted Christian world that has opened the floodgates to Atheism, Evolution and Islam in the Western World.
"...being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God." Phillipians 1:11 NKJV

If you "born Agains" (so-called) can say that you are preaching the Gospel in all the World, that you operate the largest private School system in the World (outside of Catholocism) them I might begin to be isnterested in what you have. Otherwise, all this vituoperation against the SDA Church is just so much hot air.

I can see you are angry. Certainly not everything said here was kind.

However, I have looked at your websites. Took time to see what you believe. Unfortunately I have found a number of crucial differences. The Seventh Day Adventist doctrine does sadly lack what I see as crucial teachings of the Bible that make a difference when sharing the gospel message.

In the end only the Lord truly knows who is His and who are not. Wether you think we are Saved or Not doesn't matter because God knows our hearts.

Seems you have a thing about private schools? Not sure what that has to do with denominations being valid or not.

Anyway sorry you are upset.

The Bible tells us that those who sincerely seek the Lord will find Him.

Jerm 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

[Christo]

Your'e so right and some of the changes are very dangerous. I met an Adventist recently in a Christian Chat room who said that she was told John 1:1 was misinterpreted and that it does NOT mean that Jesus is God... I don't know if She was taught this at her Adventist church or what.

The Adventst Church believe that Jesus was fully God, underived and unborrowed. You probably are confused with the JW's who beliefs and teaches optherwise. John 1:1 means just what it says.

[Christo]

I can see you are angry. Certainly not everything said here was kind.

However, I have looked at your websites. Took time to see what you believe. Unfortunately I have found a number of crucial differences. The Seventh Day Adventist doctrine does sadly lack what I see as crucial teachings of the Bible that make a difference when sharing the gospel message.

In the end only the Lord truly knows who is His and who are not. Wether you think we are Saved or Not doesn't matter because God knows our hearts.

Seems you have a thing about private schools? Not sure what that has to do with denominations being valid or not.

Anyway sorry you are upset.

The Bible tells us that those who sincerely seek the Lord will find Him.

No I am not upset or angry. And if I was unkind, please forgive. Both are negative emotions and prolonged exposure to such can make you sick. You can find many things being said about many people on the Internet. Not many are positive or good. Private Schools? As in Church Schools. My apologies for not explaining it better. Find me a public School that teaches Creationism (i.e. that the World and the Universe are the Works of His hands. The first Book of John, verse 3 confirms: Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. Joh 1:3 NIV


You should share with me, please, what crucial differnces you have found between SDA teachings and the Bible. Who knows? You might just persuade me!

You are so right. Only the Lord truly knows who are His. This is confirmed in fact in the Judgment.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." 2Co 5:10 NIV

It is not so much what we say, but what we do that will determine our eternal destiny.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom 2:12, 13 NIV

James confirms this: "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." Jas 1:22 NIV

[Hannah]

No I am not upset or angry. And if I was unkind, please forgive. Both are negative emotions and prolonged exposure to such can make you sick. You can find many things being said about many people on the Internet. Not many are positive or good. Private Schools? As in Church Schools. My apologies for not explaining it better. Find me a public School that teaches Creationism (i.e. that the World and the Universe are the Works of His hands. The first Book of John, verse 3 confirms: Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. Joh 1:3 NIV


You should share with me, please, what crucial differnces you have found between SDA teachings and the Bible. Who knows? You might just persuade me!

You are so right. Only the Lord truly knows who are His. This is confirmed in fact in the Judgment.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." 2Co 5:10 NIV

It is not so much what we say, but what we do that will determine our eternal destiny.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Rom 2:12, 13 NIV

James confirms this: "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." Jas 1:22 NIV

First might I say we are on the brink of the Tribulation and so we will not see the Secular (non-Christian) world and especially Scientists turn around to embrace Creationism.

My parents are Serbian Orthodox and since the Socialist Government of the former Yugoslavia has folded our churches have reopened and the first thing the Serbian Orthodox Priests did were to petition the Serbian government to introduce Creastionism in schools. I was a bit shocked actually. Not that the Serbian Orthodox Church has it altogether because even though their doctrines etc.. are very good and Bible based it isn't what they teach from the pulpit. That is another thread.

Just thought you would be interested to hear that one nation out there has Creationism as part of it's school cirriculum. I live in Australia but have family back there and keep informed of what is going on in the Old country.

Meanwhile. I was hoping Chickiebabe would come back as she asked us here to look at your doctrines. However I can say I learned something from going through your websits to see what your Church says it believes. Now I came across several the one I mainly read through was the UK one with 28 or 29 articles lists that the SDA believe in.

Now SDA have been seen as fundamentally Protestant here in Australia. Until now I really haven't bothered going into your doctrines. The few SDA families I have know over the years are a tight knit community and don't have time for outsiders. The few I knew at work were very conscience of eating certain foods (hard to cater for them if we had training sessions or meetings) and the couple of friends I got to know never went out with you on Saturday and refused to go out on a Sunday just in case they were making other Chrsitians who had Sunday as their day of rest, work. So unless you had them over to your place they didn't go out with you anywhere. Very strict in what they adhered to in their lives. Lost touch with them since we stopped working together.

I have found a few fundamental differences. I'll start with just one.

Now I whent through a number of SDA websites and I have found no teaching of Repentance. No mention of it in the steps to salvation or under any teaching about Baptism.

Now the frustrating thing is I have also done a bit of a search to find various Anglican websites here in Australia that I can list off the teaching on salvation that includes repentance. I get so much stuff back and after going through a few pages of the search results haven't found a website or page which clearly shows what they teach. I go to an Anglican church here and it is through them I have come across the teaching. Here is another link on the topic which gives an explaination of what I mean by repentance so you can get where I am coming from because people have different views on what it means to repent.

What is repentance and is it necessary for salvation?

Now we know that God has constantly called for Israel to repent and John the Baptist did so as well.

Here is what the scriptures say about those who do not repent.

RO 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

So repentance is obviously required.

Remember I'm not talking about just feeling sorry for being a Sinner. Please go to the Link as it clearly describes what repentance is there.

Now I didn't see any mention of this teaching in your doctrines or on your websites. If I missed it then I apologise.

I'll leave it there.