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  1. #41
    RandallB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfivefour View Post
    If I understand Dr. Ice correctly he believes it is Pre-Trib but Post-Rapture.
    Yep, Me too.

    If Ezek 39:29 's pouring out of the Lord's Spirit upon the whole nation of Israel were to happen during the Church's dispensation then ALL of Israel will be part of the Bride.

    This MUST be dealing with a different dispensation.
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  2. #42
    YeuEmMaiMai is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    that article does not change my pov as it is hard to reconcile the following with any part of the Tribulation:

    1. Israel living in peace and safety during any part of the tribulation as

    a. The judgements start
    b. The anticrist is in control and as such there is no peace.
    c. Pople are going to be at war, killing each other for their beliefs (we are seeing this with Islam), food, etc.

    2. Ezekiel 38 has to happen before the tribulation as the defeat of all of the nations around here would allow for Israel to live in peace and safety.

    3. As mentioned before, I also belive that God uses this event to SHOW the WORLD that HE is indeed God and this will cause many conversions....

    Edit: Clarification and the obvious spelling errors.
    Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; June-7th-2013 at 04:36 AM.
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  3. #43
    Sean Osborne is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    The discussion is getting into the realm of which prophecy expositor holds what view, of which prophecy, and when it occurs in the sequence of last days events. There may be half a dozen or more opinions being expressed if one bothers to go out and read what has been written by them, and that's all that they are IMHO... just opinions except for a precious few who have gotten it right from the only Source of Truth there is when it comes to His prophetic word.

    It is this dichotomy of differing eschatological views and opinions that I find completely maddening because there is only ONE interpretation to any prophecy through the Holy Spirit. Period, end of story.

    That means that some of these expositors are rightly dividing the prophetic Word of God through the Holy Spirit's guidance, and the others are quite simply and plainly teaching what they teach in error, from their own human reasoning and being uninspired by the Holy Spirit.

    I go with what the Spirit convicts me is the truth of a prophetic matter. In the matter of the sequence: my conviction is that Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38/39 all occur in this order as pre-70th Week fulfillments. I have had this conviction since 1972 and it has never changed and will never change because Father, Son and Holy Spirit are forever unchanging.

    The relationship of the Harpazo to all of this is irrelevant IMHO. The Harpazo is a signless, timeless event until after-the-fact. The Harpazo is not connected to any time except for an unknown nanosecond at some point prior to the advent of the 70th Week that God the Father alone already or soon will determine. The Harpazo, therefore, could happen anytime between now and a point in time that extends to the verse immediately prior to Ezekiel 39:29 (at which time the Lord's pouring out His Spirit upon Israel has already occurred simply because it is spoken of by God in the past tense).
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  4. #44
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    If you actually go back to the OP you will find I mention that Gog/Magog could happen as as far out as 3 1/2 years. I also have held it is something that occurs after the rapture but pre trib. I think it is quite healthy to have discussions like these as long as they are civil. The fact is the Rapture is imminent and could happen at any time. But things are really ramping up over in the ME right now. God is good and soon all of us will be standing before the blessed and glorious Lord. Great posts by all. When God says its time we will be gone in a twinkie, I mean a twinkle! :)
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    Question Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhen7 View Post
    If you actually go back to the OP you will find I mention that Gog/Magog could happen as as far out as 3 1/2 years. I also have held it is something that occurs after the rapture but pre trib. I think it is quite healthy to have discussions like these as long as they are civil. The fact is the Rapture is imminent and could happen at any time. But things are really ramping up over in the ME right now. God is good and soon all of us will be standing before the blessed and glorious Lord. Great posts by all. When God says its time we will be gone in a twinkie, I mean a twinkle! :)
    I agree, and Have started to notice that god has told the main characters throughout the entire bible when their time is up, why not at the rapture. It is at an important period of time for the world.

  6. #46
    Sean Osborne is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by daygo View Post
    I agree, and Have started to notice that god has told the main characters throughout the entire bible when their time is up, why not at the rapture. It is at an important period of time for the world.
    I believe the God the Father maintains strict secrecy because Satan isn't stupid.

    Just as Satan has interfered with and attempted to thwart every aspect of God's plan throughout creation, God keeps the Harpazo event well beyond Satan's ability to act against it.

    God will say the Word, and BAM! ... just like that the Harapzo will happen in a nanosecond.

    That's when Satan will know his time is very limited from that point forward. Michael and his angels will do their thing to him in Heaven and we know the rest.
    Last edited by Sean Osborne; June-6th-2013 at 01:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Let me say that I enjoy Sean's research and study. The way my personality is, I would be a tad softer in my responses. However, may I parse this as Sean being fiercely loyal and accountable to God and His word rather than just being coarse and impolite. I for one, appreciate the vast study as we wait to see what unfolds.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Folks,
    I am not ignorant of things that have transpired on the board with people, but we need to move forward in disputes and the tone of language towards each other. We can't move forward if we are living in the past. None of us is perfect and we all have our faults. Let us work TOGETHER to bring Glory to the Lord as we discuss topics. We are all diamonds in the rough to the Lord. Some of us need to be polished longer than others for their true quality to shine. Let us hold hands and walk together against the enemy in these last days.

    I hope this helps.

    God bless you all.

  9. #49
    Sean Osborne is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Scipio View Post
    Let me say that I enjoy Sean's research and study. The way my personality is, I would be a tad softer in my responses. However, may I parse this as Sean being fiercely loyal and accountable to God and His word rather than just being coarse and impolite. I for one, appreciate the vast study as we wait to see what unfolds.
    Scipio,

    Your parsing is absolute perfection, my fierce loyalty and accountability is through the Spirit to the Father by the Grace of Jesus Christ. I am what the Lord's hands have made, Praise God. That's all there is to say. Thank you very much for your understanding this and saying so!

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Would like to collect the Scriptural Issues that demonstrate that Ps 83 et al are Pre-Ezek 38 (or not).

    Ps 83 -- War or Prayer or Foreseeing
    A) Ps 83 is a prayer by a Seer that was prayed when Israel was in a Covenant Relationship with the Lord. It does lack a response from the Lord contained inside the Ps itself. However, the Lord definitely answered the prayer via Zep 2, Zech 9, Jer 49, Oba 1, Amos 1, Is 11, Ezek 25, et al. These prophecies of destruction on Edom, Ammon, Moab, Philistia, Tyre, and Amalek have not been totally fulfilled in the past so therefore they must be still in our future.

    ‘Betach’
    B) Israel MUST be living in ‘Betach’ before Ezek 38. Ezek 28 tells that Israel will live in ‘Betach’ after the Lord judges those surrounding nations that hate Israel (the Ps 83 nations).

    Possess East of Dead Sea
    C) Ezek 39 describes defeated enemies being buried in Ammon/Moab which are declared to be Israel’s territory. This seems to be due to Zep 2:9/Is 11/Ps 83 where it is declared that Israel will possess that land.

    ZERO Ps 83 in Ezek 38
    D) ZERO of the nations described in Ps 83 are involved with Ezek 38 war. It defies imagination that they would remain out of the action when the Islamic nations of Ezek 38 attack unless they have been judged and taken out first.

    AC would stifle Ps 83 et al 1st half Trib
    E) The purpose of Ps 83 nations is to wipe Israel off the map. This is exactly what the AC would thwart while ENFORCING the covenant with Israel during the 1st half of the Trib.

    ZERO ability to possess land 2nd half Trib
    F) Israel will be too busy fleeing the AC in the 2nd half to deal with any of the Ps 83 issues or possess any land such as Zep 2:9 & Jer 49:2 dictate. Zep 2:9 & Isaiah 11:13-14 also talk about Israel plundering Edom, Moab, and Ammonites. Again ZERO ability to do this 2nd half Trib. Those unfulfilled prophecies MUST be fulfilled – Pre-AC .

    Increasing Ring of Judgments
    G) The pattern of judging those inner ring of nations (Ps 83 et al), then the next ring of nations (Ezek 38 ), then finally the entire world of nations (Trib) really follows the Lord’s long suffering nature. He will begin judging with undisputable actions on a few nations and will expand the judgments as the world stubbornly refuses to acknowledge Him.

    Arguments from silence:
    H) There is absolutely ZERO mention of the Ruler of the World, AC, or a Temple in any of the Ps 83 et al verses. There is also absolutely ZERO mention of any Seal/Bowl judgments falling on the rest of the world while the Ps 83 et al & Ezek 38 battles are going on. The Trib judgments are laid out and they fall on all the nations. In fact the nations are seen standing back and asking "Really???" in response to the Ezek 38 attack.

    Islam's minions
    I) The pattern of the Ps 83 et al nations attacking Israel first and being judged also really fits with the tactics of Islam in that Iran/Turkey will send in their minions first at Israel before they will risk their own necks.

    Does anyone have additional scriptural issues FOR or AGAINST Ps 83 et al being Pre-Ezek 38?


    Psalm 83 et al
    Psalm 83:1-4 — compare with Ezekiel 35:12-13; Zephaniah 2:8
    Psalm 83:5-8 — compare with Isaiah 17:2; Jeremiah 49:1-8, 12-13, 17-18, 20-22; Amos 1:6-8, 11-14; 2:1-3; Obadiah 1:6-9; Zephaniah 2:4-5, 9-10
    Psalm 83:9-12 — compare with Isaiah 17:3; Ezekiel 36:1-5
    Psalm 83:12-15 — compare with Isaiah 17:12-13; Jeremiah 49:2, 19; Joel 1:19-20; Amos 1:14-15; Obadiah 1:18; Zechariah 9:14-17; Zephaniah 2:2-3;
    Psalm 83:16-18 — compare with Isaiah 17:7-8, 14; Ezekiel 36:6-7; Jeremiah 49:23; Zechariah 9:1; Zephaniah 2:11
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  11. #51
    Lujack Skylark is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Ezekiel 38:1-Ezekiel 39:9 must be pre-tribulation if we look at the scriptures in order. (1) The Rapture 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (2) Peace and safety cry = sudden destruction 1 Thessalonians 5:3 Ezekiel 38:17-23 (3) The tribulation starts & The anti-Christ later blasphemies God in the Jewish temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 thru 2 Thessalonians 2:4 each step 1-3 in order)

    All the Ezekiel 38-39 chapter nations are now either linked by an economic alliance or a military alliance. Just last year Iranian (ancient Persia) officials said to the Libyans they would like to help Libya rebuild their nation. (All the Ezekiel 38:5 nations are interlinked)

    Iranian ships dock at the Port of Sudan (ancient Ethiopia) The Turks and Armenians have joined the economic Shanghai Corporation linking Russia and the southern Moslem republics of former Russia together completing the links.

    The Rapture comes first. The Isaiah 17:1-14 & Psalms 83:1-18 prophecies take place before Ezekiel 38-39 war which is after the rapture and pre-tribulation. The anti-Christ false peace plan is presented after the Moslem and Russian armies are destroyed.

    This is the way I see the events unfolding in prophecy as some have already mentioned.
    Last edited by Lujack Skylark; June-8th-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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  12. #52
    Sean Osborne is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    For Psalm 83 - under the category of "temporal framing."

    The named conspirator peoples/nations identified by the prophet Asaph did not exist in that specific configuration circa 1000 BC, nor have they existed in that specific configuration until the 20th century for the specific purpose as stated by Asaph and publicly announced by the Arab High Committee that convened in Damascus in 1947-48. This is an undeniable fact.

    I have received a burden which I must express regarding Psalm 83. I will express this burden as a trio of razor sharp questions because there is no rational reason to beat around the bush on this issue because from my Spiritual perspective Psalm 83 has been a matter-of-fact and therefore prophecy in the process of literal fulfillment for the past 65 years.

    1.) Under what authority does any modern day prophecy expositor categorically deny that Asaph was a chozeh (prophet) inspired and moved by the Holy Spirit to pray this prophetic imprecatory prayer to the Father?

    2,) How else does a man truly prophecy but by the inspiration and movement of the Holy Spirit?

    3.) Is it not blasphemous to deny the work of the Holy Spirit? (Matthew 12:22-32; Mark 3:22-30 ... i.e. the willful degradation of things related to God or things which should rightfully be attributed to Him.)

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Lujack Skylark View Post
    Ezekiel 38:1-Ezekiel 39:9 must be pre-tribulation if we look at the scriptures in order. (1) The Rapture 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (2) Peace and safety cry = sudden destruction 1 Thessalonians 5:3 Ezekiel 38:17-23 (3) The tribulation starts & The anti-Christ later blasphemies God in the Jewish temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 thru 2 Thessalonians 2:4 each step 1-3 in order)

    All the Ezekiel 38-39 chapter nations are now either linked by an economic alliance or a military alliance. Just last year Iranian (ancient Persia) officials said to the Libyans they would like to help Libya rebuild their nation. (All the Ezekiel 38:5 nations are interlinked)

    Iranian ships dock at the Port of Sudan (ancient Ethiopia) The Turks and Armenians have joined the economic Shanghai Corporation linking Russia and the southern Moslem republics of former Russia together completing the links.

    The Rapture comes first. The Isaiah 17:1-14 & Psalms 83:1-18 prophecies take place before Ezekiel 38-39 war which is after the rapture and pre-tribulation. The anti-Christ false peace plan is presented after the Moslem and Russian armies are destroyed.

    This is the way I see the events unfolding in prophecy as some have already mentioned.
    I completely agree with the sequence.

    A) Psalm 83, Zep 2, Zach 9, Isaiah 11, et al
    Few months to a year or so interlude to achieve 'Betach', possess land, and grow wealthy
    B) Ezek 38/39
    Few weeks to a year or so interlude for AC to rise to power and enforce treaty
    C) AC enforces treaty

    Zep 2 says that the Lord's Wrath is involved so the Bride must be raptured before the judgments fall in #A.
    Ya, It'll leave a mark.



    Pre-Flood; Pre-Furnace; Pre-Fierce Anger (orgēn)

    How is that 'Times Of The Gentiles' working out for you, World?

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    RandallB, exc summation...so, we are to expect rapture prior to the Israel defeat of its' nearby enemies? Gosh, that is weeks/months.
    Wow.
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Scipio View Post
    RandallB, exc summation...so, we are to expect rapture prior to the Israel defeat of its' nearby enemies? Gosh, that is weeks/months.
    Wow.
    Blessings my brother.......do you feel as though the Rapture could occur that soon?
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Re-thinking it, I believe that the Is 17:1> and Ps 83 will precede the rapture. Because greater wrath will come right after these events and, I think that we can point to 'history written in advance' to hopefully gather more potential believers into the Book of Life.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by ElShaddai View Post
    Blessings my brother.......do you feel as though the Rapture could occur that soon?
    The rapture is imminent.



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    Lujack Skylark is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Sean:I go with what the Spirit convicts me is the truth of a prophetic matter. In the matter of the sequence: my conviction is that Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38/39 all occur in this order as pre-70th Week fulfillments. I have had this conviction since 1972 and it has never changed and will never change because Father, Son and Holy Spirit are forever unchanging.

    QUOTE: Now since the Obama administration is supplying Egypt, Jordan and the Syrian Jihadist with weapons and Assad says he will send Syrian Palestinians into the Golan Heights to fight Israel, doesn't it seem like Isaiah 17:1-14 & Psalms 83:1-18 are likely to soon take place or is Assad bluffing? PM Benjamin Netanyahu has said in the past should Assad attack Israelis in the Golan Heights Assad's regime would come to an end.

    Obama has practically armed all Psalms 83:1-18 people who oppose Israel. Egypt, Jordan and Fatah and now the Syrian Jihadist rebels. The destruction of the Arab city of Damascus will likely immediately trigger the Psalms 83:1-18 war yet Assad today in the Jerusalem Post says he plans on uniting all Syrian factions against Israel appearing either way these wars are coming soon if Assad is telling the truth.

    I still view the Ezekiel 38:1-Ezekiel 39:9 conflict as coming later since Israel needs time to profit off its oil and natural gas natural resources to create the large spoil (Ezekiel 38:13) and Israel needs a little time after crushing the Sunni Arabs armies to live safely. (Ezekiel 38:11)

    God blessed Abraham at age 100 with the promise seed Isaac. Abraham was promised he would become a father of a great nation.

    Now Russia has been a curse to all nations beginning with its revolution in 1917. It seems like Russia might exist 1917-2017 for 100 years until its evil system is finally destroyed in the Ezekiel prophecy. It seems like with current events Russia could fall in 2017 at the same year Obama hopefully leaves the White House.

    What do you think about Russia's power being totally destroyed in 2017 Sean?

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    Thumbs up Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Just speculating, suppose that Obama leaves whitehouse then becomes president of the e.u in 2018, which a little previously isaiah 17 and psalm 83 is fulfilled, rapture happens, then ezek. 38/39 happens, then the 70th week of daniel starts around 2021, just thinking aloud thats all.

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    Default Re: Ezekiel 38 and 39

    Quote Originally Posted by daygo View Post
    Just speculating, suppose that Obama leaves whitehouse then becomes president of the e.u in 2018, which a little previously isaiah 17 and psalm 83 is fulfilled, rapture happens, then ezek. 38/39 happens, then the 70th week of daniel starts around 2021, just thinking aloud thats all.
    Nah; you give Obama too much credit; it's the people who lift up Obama, not Obama himself, the real Antichrist will be a great man of influence and power, Obama is just a paper tiger puppet of Valerie Jarret.

    The real antichrist won't need a teleprompter or a brainwashed media covering up and glossing over his mistakes. he will rise up with great charisma to be accepted by all; not a puppet propped up by one partisan party.



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