Where are we towards the Ezekiel chapter 38-39 fullfillment.

[RandallB]

Yes, and those missile-borne agents will cause significant damage to Israeli population centers according to Isaiah 17, particularly verses 4 through 17.
However, in response, Damascus (and the nation of Syria as we know it today) ceases to exist.

for Israel and for Syria and all the ME that they will come to know the Son while they still can.

[dave-o]

nm

[RandallB]

Ezekiel 39:9 Then those who live in the cities of Israel will go out and use the weapons for kindling - the shields, bows and arrows, war clubs and spears - they will burn them for seven years.

The fact that the "Weapons Burning" is limited to 7 years speaks of an interruption in their energy needs. Either "Fleeing To Petra" or Millenial Kingdom would interrupt the "Burning" of Gogs weapons.

Also the fact that the there is no mention of the AC in Ez 38-39. These attacking nations are acting on their own. The rest of the world is standing back wringing their hands & asking politely, "Are you sure Gog, that you want to do this?"

The AC enforces a Treaty with Israel just before the beginning of the Trib. He could not allow that Treaty to be broken before their Temple is built because he has a Burning in his Busom to stand in the Holy of Holies and will not allow anything to mess with that goal.

He will be the one to break that Treaty when the time is right.

I believe that Ez 38-39 is a Pre-Covanent-Enforcement, Pre-Trib event.

Ez 38-39 is the event that convinces the world that they need to get a Treaty with Israel to keep them from taking over the whole world. Maybe Israel gives up their nukes for peace, security and the ablility to build their Temple. The shattered Muslim world of Post-[Ps 83 & Ez 38] would have few objectors to the rebuilding of the Temple.


1239

[Sean Osborne]

The fact that the "Weapons Burning" is limited to 7 years speaks of an interruption in their energy needs. Either "Fleeing To Petra" or Millenial Kingdom would interrupt the "Burning" of Gogs weapons.

RandallB,

A couple of notes regarding hermeneutics in the exegesis of prophetic text.

First, the concluding words of Ezekiel 39:9 (ba'ar 'esh sheba' shaneh) "burn fire seven years" is a prophetic declarative of something that literally will take place in the future. It's the same kind of prophetic declarative as the LORD God made known about the instant death that awaits all of the Gog-led invasion force in verse 5 because "for I have spoken [it], saith the Lord YHWH." The reason why this buring is exactly seven years is not due to anything other than the fact that God YHWH has spoken it, therefore, it will be so. This means that tere is no other agency or activity or event which interupts this future literal fact because the full course of the burning has been declared by God to be exactly seven years.

The AC enforces a Treaty with Israel just before the beginning of the Trib.

According to Daniel 9:27 the Antichrist will "shall confirm (gabar) the covenant (bĕriyth) with many (rab) for one ('echad) week (shabuwa`)." The Hebrew word rab is indicative of a treaty which s global in nature, with a great many nations including and especially Israel. The "shall confirm" (gabar bĕriyth) is indicative something which already exists. Antichrist doe not enforce this treaty, he confirms it to a seven year duration for all parties concerned, but then specifically abbrogates it with respect to Israel according to the following words of Daniel 9:27. It is the confirming of the covenant which reveals Antichrist to the world.

You are correct, this confirming of the covenant occurs some unknown period of time after the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39.

[RandallB]

RandallB,

A couple of notes regarding hermeneutics in the exegesis of prophetic text.

First, the concluding words of Ezekiel 39:9 (ba'ar 'esh sheba' shaneh) "burn fire seven years" is a prophetic declarative of something that literally will take place in the future. It's the same kind of prophetic declarative as the LORD God made known about the instant death that awaits all of the Gog-led invasion force in verse 5 because "for I have spoken [it], saith the Lord YHWH." The reason why this buring is exactly seven years is not due to anything other than the fact that God YHWH has spoken it, therefore, it will be so. This means that tere is no other agency or activity or event which interupts this future literal fact because the full course of the burning has been declared by God to be exactly seven years.

Completely agree that the length of the burning is due to the Lord’s sovereign will.

Having said that I still see that there could be an event in our physical plane that marks the end of the burning.

According to Daniel 9:27 the Antichrist will "shall confirm (gabar) the covenant (bĕriyth) with many (rab) for one ('echad) week (shabuwa`)." The Hebrew word rab is indicative of a treaty which s global in nature, with a great many nations including and especially Israel. The "shall confirm" (gabar bĕriyth) is indicative something which already exists. Antichrist doe not enforce this treaty, he confirms it to a seven year duration for all parties concerned, but then specifically abbrogates it with respect to Israel according to the following words of Daniel 9:27. It is the confirming of the covenant which reveals Antichrist to the world.

You are correct, this confirming of the covenant occurs some unknown period of time after the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39.

Completely agree that the word should be 'confirm'. Confirm is the term that I have always used in the past. For some reason 'enforce' came out this time.

In a weak defense of the term 'enforce', if there is a confirming of a covenant then there has to be an enforcer, however the scripture is silent on that subject except to show us that the AC is becoming the top enforcer of the world about that timeframe.

Thanks for your expert attention to detail Sean!

[Sean Osborne]

Thanks for your expert attention to detail Sean!

Amen Bro, but the "thanks" are not due myself, but to Him. Maranatha.

[Dude]

We have Gog/Magog chief prince of Meshech (Moscow) and Tubal (Tobolsk-Siberia) supplying weapons to Israel's enemies.

There is Persia/Iran the ringleader in this future war. Iran is undermining the nation of Iraq. Persia is united with Ethiopia/
Sudan. Russian pilots are in Ethiopia flying missions against
Eritera and the Sudan has a military alliance with Iran. Phut/Libya the Moslem Brotherhood hates Israel and will take over Libya. Libyan missles have made their way to Hamas in Gaza.

Gomer is Germany. The Turks in Germany are vocalizing an anti-Israeli stance. Some German politicans have stated they don't mind seeing Iran use nuclear sites for peaceful purposes, yet we know the Iranian leader Ahmadinejad plans to make nuclear bombs.

Togarmah is Turkey and Armenia. Turkey is becoming more anti-Israel everyday and Armenia is setting up a radar station with Russia to monitor any Israeli activity against Iran's nuclear sites.

The hook (Ezekiel 38:4) bringing the Russians into the Middle-East is the gas and oil fields Israel has recently discovered.

We have listed here all the non-Arab nations which do not border Israel. The Arab nations bordering Israel will no doubt have to be defeated before the Ezekiel War takes place.

Right now its the USA vs. Russia's interests in Syria and the Russians have an idea that Obama will do nothing as he promises to scale back USA defenses if re-elected.

Israel has to eliminate the threats from its Arab neighbors Before striking Iranian nuclear sites. Its interesting seeing how these Bible prophecies are lining up.

I don't see why Ezekiel 38+39 couldn't happen any day, possibly in the next 6 months to a year....or longer. My mind can think of alot of scenarios.

1.Seems like all the players are in place.

2.The word safely, used in 38:8+11, can also be translated as confidently. Also, it seems like where you read it in verse 11, it could be refering to the fact that in this modern era, country's/cities don't protect themselves like ages ago, when walls,bars, and gates were your security. So maybe its a reference to time more than actual present safety. And they are confident, at least in a certain sense having thier military, and who knows what kind of advanced weapons.

3. The hook: seems like more than one thing could draw Magog into the land. The wording in 38:9-10 is interesting. Almost as if Magog went to attack Israel for a different reason, when the thought occurred to them that they could have it all.

The hook: What if Israel does attack Irans Nuke Plants. They have to don't they? If Iran gets Nukes, ouch. No way they let that happen. No way sanctions stop it, right? Then Russia/Iran Retaliates, or does Israel take out Iran's Airforce.

Anyways, it could be a trigger that gets things steamrolling out of control. Just one thought.


4. The United States: I wonder about verse 39:6 Could the "Fire among them who dwell carelessly in the isles", be the US? Maybe some nukes are exploded in the US? It would definitly take us out of the picture. Probably cripple China.

Also, I can't help but think the US is facing Gods Judgement.


5. If the US, Russia, and the Muslim nations are destroyed, and China is crippled, doesn't that set the stage for the world leader, and all. And Israel will be in control, and have more land etc, maybe?

Who knows. Maybe the rapture happens during this Falls feasts.


Anyways, those are some of my thoughts.

[Dude]

In reguards to the United States being judged: I came across a Rabbi on TV a few nights ago, talking about Isaiah 9:10, and relating it to 9/11. It blew me away. He has a book called the 8 Harbingers, or something like that. You can Google it. Maybe you've already heard about it.

Interestlingly enough, that morning I had been digging into that portion of Isaiah, so I knew exactly what he was talking about from Isreals standpoint, but had no Idea that these same judgements were fullfilled during 9/11. I'm not going to explain it all, but it is a must, must see. I youtubed it the next day, theres a bunch of em where he is explaining these chilling things that happened, as if God was speaking directly to us, as he did Israel, warning us through these series of events. And we have done, and said the exact same things that Israel did so long ago before God finally did Judge them.


One really interesting thing that I never realised, is that our Country, was dedicated to God, in a 2 hr prayer session, on the ignaural day of George Washington, at the little chaple on the corner of ground zero. And that that chaple, owned all of ground zero. Which means God was warning us by allowing the very cornerstone, the original capital of our country to be attacked. His protection was lifted.


Did we repent? No we did exactly as the Jews. 7 years later God hit our Economy, the biggest stock market crash ever. Did we repent. No. In fact, that very city, this year decided to and bless, and join the likes of Sodom and Gomorrah.

So who knows. I'm watching. I could see it. Revelation 18, sounds erriely similar to a city like NY being nuked. Or, that could be a future Babylon, in the 70th week. Or, it could be both. Prophesies being fufilled in 2 different ways are common.

Anyways, peace

[Sean Osborne]

I don't see why Ezekiel 38+39 couldn't happen any day, possibly in the next 6 months to a year....or longer. My mind can think of alot of scenarios.

Dude,

The problem is that the Lord's prophetic word is not fulfilled through any of the various scenario's the human mind can concoct. On the contrary, His prophetic word is a living word that is fulfilled at the appointed time and in the exquisite detail of every letter and phrase within the prophetic text itself. Human pride needs to be reminded of this every now and then, and getting back into His word is the ONLY remedy to such an affliction.

If you start there, reading and studying the word itself in exquisite detail with the prayerful assistance of the Holy Spirit, then without question you will find the glaring errors each and every one of the scenarios you're entertaining contains and you will re-assess your scenario's accordingly.

I will use your first two points to illustrate what I am saying.

1.Seems like all the players are in place.

"Seems like" and "are" in place are likely months to years apart.

In an example of real-world geo-political and military matters, history shows us that Rome first appeared on the Middle Eastern scene in a prophetically big way when the Roman consul in Ptolemaic Egypt turned the forerunner Antichrist around on his heels by drawing a line in the sand around the spot on which he stood in the Nile Delta, and forced him with nothing more than the power of his words to flee northwards to commit the forerunner act of the coming "Abomination of Desolation." Seems like Rome had arrived on the scene in 168 BC, but the historical fact would be that Rome's Legions would not completely fulfill the prophecy of Gabriel (Daniel 9:27) for another 242 years into the future in 73 AD.

2.The word safely, used in 38:8+11, can also be translated as confidently. Also, it seems like where you read it in verse 11, it could be refering to the fact that in this modern era, country's/cities don't protect themselves like ages ago, when walls,bars, and gates were your security. So maybe its a reference to time more than actual present safety. And they are confident, at least in a certain sense having thier military, and who knows what kind of advanced weapons.

The State of Israel is currently surrounded by both barbed and concertina wire, walls, minefields and sophisticated, state-of-the-art defenses of every kind, some of them are still under construction as this is being written (go visit Sinai for a first-hand look). Israel is ON GUARD against islamic terrorism every day of the week and especially on the Sabbath and High Holy Days. Does all of Israel dwell in safety and security as God prophetically has declared to Ezekiel? Absoluetly not by a longshot. The fact is that there are major prophetic fulfillments yet to occur to make the Israel of Ezekiel 38/39 a reality.

[RandallB]

....

The State of Israel is currently surrounded by both barbed and concertina wire, walls, minefields and sophisticated, state-of-the-art defenses of every kind, some of them are still under construction as this is being written (go visit Sinai for a first-hand look). Israel is ON GUARD against islamic terrorism every day of the week and especially on the Sabbath and High Holy Days. Does all of Israel dwell in safety and security as God prophetically has declared to Ezekiel? Absoluetly not by a longshot. The fact is that there are major prophetic fulfillments yet to occur to make the Israel of Ezekiel 38/39 a reality.

Absolutely Agree!!!

[Dude]

Dude,

The problem is that the Lord's prophetic word is not fulfilled through any of the various scenario's the human mind can concoct. On the contrary, His prophetic word is a living word that is fulfilled at the appointed time and in the exquisite detail of every letter and phrase within the prophetic text itself. Human pride needs to be reminded of this every now and then, and getting back into His word is the ONLY remedy to such an affliction.

If you start there, reading and studying the word itself in exquisite detail with the prayerful assistance of the Holy Spirit, then without question you will find the glaring errors each and every one of the scenarios you're entertaining contains and you will re-assess your scenario's accordingly.

I will use your first two points to illustrate what I am saying.




"Seems like" and "are" in place are likely months to years apart.

In an example of real-world geo-political and military matters, history shows us that Rome first appeared on the Middle Eastern scene in a prophetically big way when the Roman consul in Ptolemaic Egypt turned the forerunner Antichrist around on his heels by drawing a line in the sand around the spot on which he stood in the Nile Delta, and forced him with nothing more than the power of his words to flee northwards to commit the forerunner act of the coming "Abomination of Desolation." Seems like Rome had arrived on the scene in 168 BC, but the historical fact would be that Rome's Legions would not completely fulfill the prophecy of Gabriel (Daniel 9:27) for another 242 years into the future in 73 AD.




The State of Israel is currently surrounded by both barbed and concertina wire, walls, minefields and sophisticated, state-of-the-art defenses of every kind, some of them are still under construction as this is being written (go visit Sinai for a first-hand look). Israel is ON GUARD against islamic terrorism every day of the week and especially on the Sabbath and High Holy Days. Does all of Israel dwell in safety and security as God prophetically has declared to Ezekiel? Absoluetly not by a longshot. The fact is that there are major prophetic fulfillments yet to occur to make the Israel of Ezekiel 38/39 a reality.

Hi, thanks for your response.

I used the word "seems", because we don't really know for certain, exactly, where all these tribes settled. Yes, we have a general idea, but there is question among historians, and biblical scholars. My personal opinion, based on "uncertain data" by historians, is that all the players are in place.

Your second point, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Are you are talking about the discussion of whether the abomination of desolations was fufilled by Antiochus Eppiphanes, or later when the Roman Standards were worshiped, and the temple destroyed? Personally, I don't think Daniel 9:27 will be fufilled till Anti Christ does it.


My point about the word "Safety", was that it could be translated, "Confidently". It shows up in my bible reference column as that, and I looked it up in the Hebrew dictionary. And I agree with you. They are not dwelling "Safely" at this time. And yeah, ,if you read it that way, we're not even close. And really, I'm tryin think of how that could ever be. Think about it. Will there ever be a day, when Israel has no security system, no walls, fences, barbed wire, radar?

Thats what you are saying right? That the correct interpretation of this scripture, is that there will be a day, when there will be no barbed and concertina wire, walls, minefields and sophisticated, state-of-the-art defenses of any kind?


You could be right.


Or, if you read Ezekiel 38:11, exactly as it it written, It says, "And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages" My point was, that when this was written, Israel was a land of Villages, each one having its own seperate walls, gates, bars. At night they locked the Gates of the villages and put watchmen on the walls, and when an enemy approached they closed the Gates, and Barred them. Israel was a land of walled villages.

Today, there aren't those same kind of Walls with Gates, and Bars around all the villages in Israel. The point was that it can be read differently, as if the detail God was giving, was that this battle, would take place in an age where men built cities differently. As opposed to a time when Israel needed no security.

Truth is, I don't necessarily believe this is the interpretation. I'm watching.

[mattfivefour]

I think the day Israel is dwelling in safety is the day the Antichrist makes the Daniel 9:27 treaty which causes Israel to believe its safety is secured for 7 years..

[Sean Osborne]

I think the day Israel is dwelling in safety is the day the Antichrist makes the Daniel 9:27 treaty which causes Israel to believe its safety is secured for 7 years..

How can this be?

Ezekiel and the prophets before him were plainly told by the Lord that Gog and his armies will come when Israel is safe and secure "in the latter days" (Ezekiel 38:14-17), yet the prophecy of Ezekiel 38/39 has no part in Gabriel's description of the 70th Week to Daniel.

Every eschatological indication is that Ezekiel 38/39 is a precursor event to the 70th Week, a major WMD war, which serves as a catalyst for the rise of the Antichrist and his confirming what many eschatologists believe will be a global "covenant among many." (Ezekiel 39:29)

Gog and the Antichrist are not contemporaries of each other; Gog preceeds Antichrist; he lives, invades and dies in Israel prior to the revealing of the Antichrist.

[Dude]

How can this be?

Ezekiel and the prophets before him were plainly told by the Lord that Gog and his armies will come when Israel is safe and secure "in the latter days" (Ezekiel 38:14-17), yet the prophecy of Ezekiel 38/39 has no part in Gabriel's description of the 70th Week to Daniel.

Every eschatological indication is that Ezekiel 38/39 is a precursor event to the 70th Week, a major WMD war, which serves as a catalyst for the rise of the Antichrist and his confirming what many eschatologists believe will be a global "covenant among many." (Ezekiel 39:29)

Gog and the Antichrist are not contemporaries of each other; Gog preceeds Antichrist; he lives, invades and dies in Israel prior to the revealing of the Antichrist.

Hi, I agree with you that Ezek 38-39, and Daniel 9:27 are 2 seperate events. You mentioned other Prophets before Ezekiel, that were plainly told by God about Gog and this invasion. If you can, can you give me a list of those scriptures, so I can read and pray about them. That'd be awesome.

And I have been thinking, reading, praying more about our discussion, and I thought of a couple other points.

In reference to the word safety, Ezekiel 28:26, contains this same Hebrew word twice. Its translated "Safely" , then "Confidence".

Also, I've been thinking about what I said earlier about the Walls Bars, and Gates. I was picturing Ezekiel: exiled in Babylon, Jeresulam and the Temple destroyed, prophesing this to the people, and how they might have heard it. And I know that means nothing, so don't get me wrong here, but If I were a Jew, exiled in Bablyon, and I heard this verse Ezekiel 38:11, my first thought would be, "No way, our whole landfull of villages without Walls, Bars ,or Gates? And we will have confidence?


With these things said, I really want to stress, that I don't necessarily believe what I am saying. We are discussing this. I have always believed as you do, that they had to be "Safely" in the land, and I can't say that that I've changed my mind. On the flip side, I'm not ready to say that, no way this can happen till Israel has Safety. There are fulfilled Prophesies, that if I read them before they were fulfilled, I might have never seen, whatever. Hindsite is 20/20. And again, don't get me wrong, God knows exactly what is going to happen. I believe that.

Peace, Dude

[Sean Osborne]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]Hi, I agree with you that Ezek 38-39, and Daniel 9:27 are 2 seperate events. You mentioned other Prophets before Ezekiel, that were plainly told by God about Gog and this invasion. If you can, can you give me a list of those scriptures, so I can read and pray about them. That'd be awesome.

Dude,

Chapter 38 verse 17 is all that the Lord tells Ezekiel to prophesy about concerning the coming of Gog against Israel in the latter days and that more ancient prophets had also spoken this prophecy; to wit there is no other prophetic text like it in either the OT or the NT.

"Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?"

What this means is that far more ancient prophets than Ezekiel did orally speak prophecy of Gog of Magog coming against Israel in the latter days. They spoke it; they did not transcribe it into text as we have in Ezekiel 38/39.

The Scripture proof of this kind of ancient spoken but unwritten prophecy which comes to an exact fulfillment is found in 1 Kings 16 where Jehu the prophet, the son of Hanani, spoke a prophecy against Baasha, who ruled the northern kingdom of Israel and his entire house, because of his sin and his causing of the northern 10 tribes of Israel to sin. Baasha dies and is buried, yet the prophecy remains unfulfilled... until verses 8 through 13 which record the execution of the fulfillment decades later.

This is the type of ancient prophecy we find referenced in Ezekiel 38:17 - it was spoken by the ancient prophets, but not written down by anyone but Ezekiel.

[acceptedinthebeloved]

I think the day Israel is dwelling in safety is the day the Antichrist makes the Daniel 9:27 treaty which causes Israel to believe its safety is secured for 7 years..

I tend to agree (pretty much) with this view.

For one thing, the wording, say, in Ezekiel 38:16, 19, 20, 22, 23, Ezekiel 39:6, 7, 8, 13, 21, 22 esp, where it (lastly) says, "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward" (which is strangely similar to the wording in Haggai 2:19-23 [see context], and may be why Grant Jeffrey [I think it was] believed that the Gog-Magog War would take place on some future Kislev 24 [ninth Hebrew month], see Haggai 2:18 which precedes the reference I just noted... etc. [Many believe Jesus was conceived on this date also]). And when Ezekiel 39:7 says, "and the heathen [nations] shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel," I think this is important to note.

Also, if my speculation is correct on this (and I agree with the scholars who say that Gog-Magog occurs somewhere in the middle of the trib), it also seems very similar to the wording (and "typology") in Genesis 45:1-11, where two years into Joseph's famine, he reveals his identity to his brethren (who had thrown him into the pit and sold him into slavery). The wording (something like 3x) in Ezekiel 39:23, 24, 29, talks about how the Lord had hid His face from Israel, but now (at the time of Gog-Magog) He "neither will hide My face any more from them"... and then goes on to say, "for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel..." (See Joel 2:27-32, etc.) This also is what I believe does not occur until some time during their tribulation period. It makes perfect sense to me that, possibly, about two years into the trib, (and maybe ENDING on a Kislev 24) the Gog-Magog War takes place. Apprx. 280 days later (the length of a pregnancy) is the feast of Tabernacles (which would then be close[r] to the mid-trib point [see John 7 for some insights], though not quite exactly). The language of Haggai 2:18, 19-23 is similar to the language in Ezekiel 38-39 (portions of).

It seems to make sense that their "dwelling safely" is a result of the Daniel 9:27 covenant being confirmed, and that this war is among the wars noted in Matthew 24:4-8 (which correlate with the seals of Rev 6, which we know take place DURING the trib: the "beginning of birth pangs" [during first half of trib]... See also Ezekiel 38:18-23... the language seems similar there as well.)

That's how I currently understand it.


ETA: Deut 4:30 says, "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice..."
(also Deut 31:29, see context of whole chapter... I find it interesting that "Moses's song" [Deut 31:22, 30] is also mentioned in Rev 15:3 "And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints [nations/Gentiles]"... just a thought. Not saying that's the context of Gog-Magog there, mind you... but verse Rev 15:4 does say, "for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest"... which language is also similar to parts of Ezekiel 39:21, 27c, etc.)

[RandallB]

......
In reference to the word safety, Ezekiel 28:26, contains this same Hebrew word twice. Its translated "Safely" , then "Confidence".
.........

I feel that Eze 28 does contain keys to understanding the sequence as well as other issues of Eze 38-39.

Eze 28 states that it will be the Lord that executes judgments on the surrounding nations that are hating on Israel. It is these judgments of the Lord that will allow Israel to dwell in the safety/confidence that is required for Eze 38. Israel will overcome them and will expand into their territories. At this point the walls, gates, and bars that are currently protecting Israel will fall into disuse.

During the ensuing months/years that Israel is growing in the wealth that tempts Gog (also a pre-req for Eze 38), some of these walls & gates may be torn down but I do not see it as a requirement that they are all torn down. Israel will not be “Living behind Walls & Gates” at this point which is what I take the spirit of the prophecy to be.

Even though their hateful Muslim neighbors will be eliminated, I do believe this will be a time of false confidence since Gog does attack. This may be what causes Israel to accept the confirming of the covenant even after the incredible display of the Lord’s provision in Eze 39 in order to double down on their confidence of peace.

The world will be desperate to Contain this unbeatable force that seems to be Israel.

[Dude]

I tend to agree (pretty much) with this view.

For one thing, the wording, say, in Ezekiel 38:16, 19, 20, 22, 23, Ezekiel 39:6, 7, 8, 13, 21, 22 esp, where it (lastly) says, "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward" (which is strangely similar to the wording in Haggai 2:19-23 [see context], and may be why Grant Jeffrey [I think it was] believed that the Gog-Magog War would take place on some future Kislev 24 [ninth Hebrew month], see Haggai 2:18 which precedes the reference I just noted... etc. [Many believe Jesus was conceived on this date also]). And when Ezekiel 39:7 says, "and the heathen [nations] shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel," I think this is important to note.

Also, if my speculation is correct on this (and I agree with the scholars who say that Gog-Magog occurs somewhere in the middle of the trib), it also seems very similar to the wording (and "typology") in Genesis 45:1-11, where two years into Joseph's famine, he reveals his identity to his brethren (who had thrown him into the pit and sold him into slavery). The wording (something like 3x) in Ezekiel 39:23, 24, 29, talks about how the Lord had hid His face from Israel, but now (at the time of Gog-Magog) He "neither will hide My face any more from them"... and then goes on to say, "for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel..." (See Joel 2:27-32, etc.) This also is what I believe does not occur until some time during their tribulation period. It makes perfect sense to me that, possibly, about two years into the trib, (and maybe ENDING on a Kislev 24) the Gog-Magog War takes place. Apprx. 280 days later (the length of a pregnancy) is the feast of Tabernacles (which would then be close[r] to the mid-trib point [see John 7 for some insights], though not quite exactly). The language of Haggai 2:18, 19-23 is similar to the language in Ezekiel 38-39 (portions of).

It seems to make sense that their "dwelling safely" is a result of the Daniel 9:27 covenant being confirmed, and that this war is among the wars noted in Matthew 24:4-8 (which correlate with the seals of Rev 6, which we know take place DURING the trib: the "beginning of birth pangs" [during first half of trib]... See also Ezekiel 38:18-23... the language seems similar there as well.)

That's how I currently understand it.


ETA: Deut 4:30 says, "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice..."
(also Deut 31:29, see context of whole chapter... I find it interesting that "Moses's song" [Deut 31:22, 30] is also mentioned in Rev 15:3 "And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints [nations/Gentiles]"... just a thought. Not saying that's the context of Gog-Magog there, mind you... but verse Rev 15:4 does say, "for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest"... which language is also similar to parts of Ezekiel 39:21, 27c, etc.)

If the Magog battle is mid-70th week, then how would you explain Israel burning the weapons for 7 yrs?

[Dude]

I feel that Eze 28 does contain keys to understanding the sequence as well as other issues of Eze 38-39.

Eze 28 states that it will be the Lord that executes judgments on the surrounding nations that are hating on Israel. It is these judgments of the Lord that will allow Israel to dwell in the safety/confidence that is required for Eze 38. Israel will overcome them and will expand into their territories. At this point the walls, gates, and bars that are currently protecting Israel will fall into disuse.

During the ensuing months/years that Israel is growing in the wealth that tempts Gog (also a pre-req for Eze 38), some of these walls & gates may be torn down but I do not see it as a requirement that they are all torn down. Israel will not be “Living behind Walls & Gates” at this point which is what I take the spirit of the prophecy to be.

Even though their hateful Muslim neighbors will be eliminated, I do believe this will be a time of false confidence since Gog does attack. This may be what causes Israel to accept the confirming of the covenant even after the incredible display of the Lord’s provision in Eze 39 in order to double down on their confidence of peace.

The world will be desperate to Contain this unbeatable force that seems to be Israel.

I like what you are saying here, except that the wording "and they shall know that I am the Lord their God". That makes me think that this is post/Magog, cuz Ezek 38+39 say the same thing.

[acceptedinthebeloved]

If the Magog battle is mid-70th week, then how would you explain Israel burning the weapons for 7 yrs?

That's a good question, which I have considered... and I don't really have a good answer for it.

One thought that is a possibility, though, (not an entirely satisfactory answer, I admit) is that maybe they won't "burn them for 7 years" immediately after the war is over (in the midst of the trib), but later (some prophecies are separated by time, like that [Is 61:1-2, for example, partially fulfilled in Luke 4:18-21; Acts 2:16-21 will also be fully fulfilled at a later time]), so, maybe in the first years of the Millennial Kingdom.

Here are a couple of passages which seem to indicate that such actions may indeed be taking place in the MK:

Isaiah 2:1-5 -

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Micah 4:1-4 -

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it.




I came across the article by Grant Jeffrey (below) that I had been trying to remember. Here's what he says (about a possible Kislev 24 Gog-Magog War--Haggai 2:18-22, 22 esp and how it compares with Ezekiel 38:18-23, 21 esp)... and I agree (plus, I can't help noticing how it "fits" the scenerio perfectly [of which, I have left out a great many other extremely intriguing details] ).

Parts of Haggai 2:22 and Ezekiel 38:21 (in the Hebrew) are worded (almost) exactly the same (just a slightly different order)!:

Although Scripture does not indicate the year in which this future invasion and defeat of Russia will occur, the prophet Haggai gives us a strong indication of what the actual day may be. Haggai reveals that on the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month (Chisleu) of the Jewish calendar, the day before Hanukkah, God will deliver Israel as He did twice before on this day: (1) the defeat of the Syrian army and recapture of the Temple in 165 b.c. and (2) the British capture of Jerusalem from the Turks in 1917 during the closing battles of WWI.

The prophet Haggai declares: "The Word of the Lord came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth day of the month [Chisleu], saying, Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; and I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother" (Haggai 2:20*22).

This description by Haggai, and the exact language of his prophecy, is uncannily like the language of Ezekiel 38 and 39 that describes Russia's defeat. The interesting point is that Haggai names the exact day of the year on which this will occur. Since so many other prophecies have been so precisely fulfilled to the day, there is a strong probability that this prophetic event will also occur on its appointed anniversary date of the biblical calendar. "Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken" (Ezekiel 39:8). God's appointment with Russia is set; it will not be postponed.

"Russia's Day of Destruction in Israel"

From Grant R. Jeffrey's Armageddon - Appointment With Destiny

Grant R. Jeffrey Ministries



And as I've mentioned before, some have noted that perhaps many (who are in the trib) will mistake the Gog-Magog War for Armageddon, think that the trib is over (when really they're still in the midst of it), and so fall for the AC's mid-trib antics (wrongly thinking it is evidence of Christ's Second Coming), and therefore may willingly embrace the mark of the beast (and worship of him) and thus seal their doom. It IS slated to be a time of great deception... hence the warnings Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:23-25, for example).

Just some thoughts. Thanks for the thought-provoking question, Dude (nice username! )
I'll keep thinking on that...

Oh, and welcome!




ETA: I had intended to add the following Scripture to this post (but forgot). This passage also refers to the same Kislev 24 date (at the time Jesus walked the earth):

John 10:22-24 -

22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.



(Ezekiel 39:22, 28, 29 esp)

[compare also, John 10:38 and Ezekiel 39:22, etc]
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