Clues to the Timing of Ezekiel 38/39 other Insights

[Sean Osborne]

I was immersed in serious Ezekiel 38/39 study into the wee hours this morning when new insights began to emerge that I'd not noticed previously.

Firstly, Ezekiel is the only prophet recorded in the Holy Bible to which God directly revealed the details about "Gog,of the land of Magog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy concerning him."

None of the other prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel or Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi wrote so much as a single prophetic word about Gog of Magog. Zippo, Nada, None. The fact that the angel Gabriel said nothing to Daniel about Gog of Magog speaks volumes in my opinion. I would say the purpose of God the Father is inherent in this blatant omission. More on that in just a moment.

Secondly, when the angel Gabriel told Daniel (Ch. 11) about the kings of the south and north, that particular prophecy was fulfilled in the several wars between the Hellenic empires of Ptolemaic Egypt (south of Israel) and the Seleucid Empire of southwest Asia (north of Israel). These wars were fought over a period of 106 years (274-167 BC) and which culminated in the fulfilled prophecies about the precursor antichrist Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

There is no mention of the Antichrist or of Jerusalem or any existing Temple in Ezekiel 38/39. I believe these are indicators that the attempted invasion by Gog's confederation occurs during a period of time when Israel is dwelling securely (after Psalm 83, Isaiah 17 for example) but has not yet rebuilt the Temple. Like a time between right now and the start of Daniel's 70th Week and the revealing of the Antichrist with his 7-year "covenant among many."

Finally, getting back to the Lord's purpose in His prophetic word to Ezekiel. This is a really crucial point for us to consider. This coming great slaughter upon the mountains of Israel in Ezekiel 38/39 is not just to bring Israel back into faithfulness to God, but also, as the Lord declares in verse 16: (NKJV - emphasis added) "And thou hast come up against My people Israel, As a cloud to cover the land, In the latter end of the days it is, And I have brought thee in against My land, IN ORDER THAT THE NATIONS MAY KNOW ME, IN MY BEING SANCTIFIED IN THEE BEFORE THEIR EYES, O Gog."

Do you see that? God declares to Ezekiel - and to all of us living right now - that He will supernaturally reveal Himself to the gentile nations of the world through the overwhelming slaughter of Gog's entire confederated military forces and the fire He sends on the land of Magog.

First question: What purpose would there be to this for all of the gentile nations if it were not prior to the Harpazo?

And what does Ezekiel say occurs after the burial of Gog's confederate armies?

Israel builds the Temple.

Let the discussion begin!

[mattfivefour]

I have nothing concrete, upon first reading, to contribute at this time—only the comment: "Most interesting!" I need to think about this and study some. Looking forward to what our exegetes have to contribute.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

To answer your question, I believe the purpose would to bring as many people to God as possible...God does not want us to suffer eternally, He wants us to be with Him for eternity....

[daygo]

Have been saying this for some time now, so will say I agree.

[Sean Osborne]

To answer your question, I believe the purpose would to bring as many people to God as possible...God does not want us to suffer eternally, He wants us to be with Him for eternity....

EXACTLY MY POINT!

I asked that question to get folks to think on it and realize the obvious reason is as you noted.

The purpose for this invasion is both to graft in more gentiles and to bring the Jew's back to covenant worship of YHWH. The Lord is very "economical" - so to speak.

After this attempt to invade, and in line with the prophetic template found in 1 Kings 5, Israel will build the third Temple of God and begin the proscibed sacrifices and oblations. After this, as in Ezekiel 39:29 (per Romans 11) when God has poured out His Spirit upon the whole house of Israel will Israel recognize the One whem they had pierced and be saved.

As for the Bride of Christ, somewhere in this brief period of time in the event described in Ezekiel 38/39, where God has manifest Himself to the gentile nations, well we all know the "twinkling of an eye' rest.

[dcbrott99]

I agree with you Sean. I too believe that the purpose of this invasion and God's defeat of Gog/Magog is to let the whole world know, without a doubt, that God is real. After that happens I don't believe many (only the completely delusional) will be able to say that there is no God. Also, I do believe that this will be the impetus for the rebuilding of the temple. After all, the only thing really holding them back from building the temple now is fear of reprisal from Muslim's. Once all the muslim's are defeated then what is to stop them from rebuilding the temple? The obvious answer to that question is nothing at all.

[SteveJM]

Thank you Sean, for starting an extremely interesting thread. Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39, written some 2600 years ago are very exciting to study. I've returned to these chapters and will spend a good amount of time there, thanks in part to your thread. To think, that here we are at this great time in history, where we see the stage being set so clearly, for the fulfillment of the war of Gog and Magog. The words you placed in bold are a good place to spend some time and focus on,"IN ORDER."

To get off point for a moment, I believe this prophecy should get our attention as a nation, as we choose our next president. We must, if we are wise, put someone in office, flawed as they may be(and they all are), that is the strongest supporter of Israel. As a nation, we need to firmly be on the right side of this.

There is a lot of pain and grief that is coming, not only for the middle east, but for the world. Most everyone here is going to feel the pain of this, but what excitement to anticipate the great display of the power of God. I'll return to this thread to read the posts, and if I can add anything, I will. One Bible passage that comes to mind is from Genesis 12.

Abram Journeys to Egypt

1 Now the LORD said to Abram,
Go forth from your country,
And from your relatives
And from your father’s house,
To the land which I will show you;
2 And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

It is God's will that, "all the families of the earth will be blessed," and "that the nations may know me."

[daygo]

Thought, Isaiah 17, psalm 83, ezek. 38/9 and rapture anywhere in between.

[Kenny64]

Sean:

And what does Ezekiel say occurs after the burial of Gog's confederate armies?

Ezekiel 39:16-21.
Cleanse the land, a great sacrifice in the land where Israel will eat and drink.
This is done so the heathen will see God's judgement. verse 21.

[LivnForChrist]

very interesting thread indeed.

[SonSeeker]

I agree with your reasoning, Sean. But your question here is raising more questions, at least for me.

First question: What purpose would there be to this for all of the gentile nations if it were not prior to the Harpazo?

In order for Ezekiel 38/39 to occur prior to the Harpazo, then Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 will need to occur prior to Ezekiel 38/39 just as you stated.

There is no mention of the Antichrist or of Jerusalem or any existing Temple in Ezekiel 38/39. I believe these are indicators that the attempted invasion by Gog's confederation occurs during a period of time when Israel is dwelling securely (after Psalm 83, Isaiah 17 for example) but has not yet rebuilt the Temple. Like a time between right now and the start of Daniel's 70th Week and the revealing of the Antichrist with his 7-year "covenant among many."

So, either Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 will need to occur very quickly or the generally understood meaning of "this generation" as beginning in 1948 may be incorrect, and "this generation" may not have begun until 1967.

Am I correct, or is there something I have missed here?

[Sean Osborne]

I agree with your reasoning, Sean. But your question here is raising more questions, at least for me.

In order for Ezekiel 38/39 to occur prior to the Harpazo, then Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 will need to occur prior to Ezekiel 38/39 just as you stated.

So, either Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 will need to occur very quickly or the generally understood meaning of "this generation" as beginning in 1948 may be incorrect, and "this generation" may not have begun until 1967.

Am I correct, or is there something I have missed here?

SonSeeker,

You have missed nothing. I'm of the interpretation that Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 will come to complete fulfillment very soon. That will be an overwhelming IDF victory. After Israel has recovered from them and is dwelling securely and in peace then the Ezekiel 38/39 battle occurs. That's an overwhelming victory for God which He ordained long ago in order to both reveal Himself manifestly to the nations (goyim) and bring Israel back into faithful worship of Him.

[Everlasting Life]

Interesting and cool observations! Stirs some excitement in the heart.

[Sean Osborne]

Interesting and cool observations! Stirs some excitement in the heart.

Indeed, this is some prophetic red meat for a lot of people as I am now finding out.

[Carl]

How better to reintroduce Himself to an unbelieving world then by performing a world shaking miracle? This will further cause men to choose sides.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. Rev 9:4-6 (KJV)


10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:10-11 (KJV)

[SonSeeker]

SonSeeker,

You have missed nothing. I'm of the interpretation that Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 will come to complete fulfillment very soon. That will be an overwhelming IDF victory. After Israel has recovered from them and is dwelling securely and in peace then the Ezekiel 38/39 battle occurs. That's an overwhelming victory for God which He ordained long ago in order to both reveal Himself manifestly to the nations (goyim) and bring Israel back into faithful worship of Him.

Sounds reasonable, Sean. It would seem to me that the Harpazo would most likely occur after Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 are fulfilled, and possibly after Ezekiel 38/39, but not necessarily.

[WKUHilltopper]

Wow! What a thread!


I'm starting to wonder now if Isaiah 17, Psalm 83 is not happening in conjunction to Ezeke 38-39.

In other words, Ezeke 38-39 starts--and the players in Psalm 83 jump in too thinking they'll get a piece of the "victory" pie. Or a vice versa scenario. One thing for sure, it would drive home the incredible awesomeness of God if all these things occurred at once and Israel remained intact.

Which begs the questions--why was I born in this period and what is it I'm supposed to be doing??

[Sean Osborne]

Sounds reasonable, Sean. It would seem to me that the Harpazo would most likely occur after Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 are fulfilled, and possibly after Ezekiel 38/39, but not necessarily.

That's what I used to think.

But then I realized that God told Ezekiel that He had also made the same prophecy concerning Gog of Magog to "the prophets of Israel" in ancient days prior to when Ezekiel lived.

In ancient days from when Ezekiel lived?!

That would have to be a direct reference to the four ancient nevi'im rishonim, the prophets or prophetic books prior to Ezekiel: Yehoshua (Joshua), Shofetim (Judges), Schmu'el (Samuel) and Melakhim (Kings). Isaiah preceded Ezekiel by about 100 years, so that's hardly ancient relative to Ezekiel's time, and Jeremiah was a contemporary prophet to Ezekiel.

Yet Ezekiel was the only prophet we find in the Bible which God actually inspired to specifically convey this prophecy to the nations (haGoyim) and Israel. This means the whole of chapters 38 and 39 are monumental in their importance, both to the gentiles and the Jews. Something this monumental, I think, has to be directly related to the end of the "time of the gentiles" and the time God again places His focus upon Israel. That's the import I see inherent in the Battle of Gog/Magog and its relationship to the Harpazo, particularly with respect to the bottom line conclusion found in Ezekiel 39:29.

[anath]

Sean, thanks for sharing what the Lord has shown you...I'll study this further. Really makes sense to me.

[SonSeeker]

Have been doing some more research on this wonderful topic, and have learned many things. It is occurring to me that Isaiah 17 and Psalm really are irrelevant. In fact, I have learned that Isaiah 17 was fulfilled in 732 BC, and Psalm 83 was fulfilled during the Six-Day War in 1967. This is not to say that these prophecies can't or won't occur again, but we shouldn't necessarily expect them to re-occur. It seems to me we need to pay more attention to Gog of Magog, and less to Damascus and the other neighbors of Israel.

This is what I'm seeing now; if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll get smacked down soon. But that's ok, I'm teachable.