Clues to the Timing of Ezekiel 38/39 other Insights

[mattfivefour]

It's got nothing with anybody "smacking " you down, John. We are all here to share the truth in love.

[SonSeeker]

It's got nothing with anybody "smacking " you down, John. We are all here to share the truth in love.

Oh of course I know that, Adrian. I wasn't being serious, that's why I ended with a smily.

Honestly, I want to hear from those much more learned than I on this subject.

[Sean Osborne]

I have learned that Isaiah 17 was fulfilled in 732 BC, and Psalm 83 was fulfilled during the Six-Day War in 1967. This is not to say that these prophecies can't or won't occur again, but we shouldn't necessarily expect them to re-occur.

SonSeeker,

I think if you look closer you will see that all aspects of the Isaiah 17 prophecy were not exactly fulfilled in the Assyrian onslaught of Damascus-Aram in 732 BC.

Rule One of God-given prophecy is that the prophecy is fulfilled in every exacting detail. Since this did not occur in 732 BC, then an exact, and future, fulfillment has yet to occur. Isaiah 17 still has a future fulfillment; one that most eschatologists believe is very imminent.

Psalm 83 did not have an exact fulfillment per Asaph's prophecy in the Six Day War of June 1967. Psalm 83 began the process of final and complete fulfillment in the 7-month period between November 1947 and May 1948 when the specific objectives outlined in verses 2 through 5...

For behold, Your enemies make a tumult;
And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
They have taken crafty counsel against Your people,
And consulted together against Your sheltered ones.
They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation,
That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.”
For they have consulted together with one consent;
They form a confederacy against You

...were made manifest by the Arab League Military High Committee meeting in Damascus, Syria where representatives of all the peoples named by Asaph were present. This process of Psalm 83 fulfillment has continued in every Arab-Israeli war since then and it continues "as we speak" with a future fulfillment tied directly to that of Isaiah 17, Joshua 13:1-7 and a host of other directly related prophecies.

I agree that the final fulfillment of these prophecies, while of great importance with respect to the Lord's plan for Israel, do not have much impact on the Church, it is within the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39 that the crucial aspect for the end of the Church Age Dispensation is made manifest.

[glc11]

Have been doing some more research on this wonderful topic, and have learned many things. It is occurring to me that Isaiah 17 and Psalm really are irrelevant. In fact, I have learned that Isaiah 17 was fulfilled in 732 BC, and Psalm 83 was fulfilled during the Six-Day War in 1967. This is not to say that these prophecies can't or won't occur again, but we shouldn't necessarily expect them to re-occur. It seems to me we need to pay more attention to Gog of Magog, and less to Damascus and the other neighbors of Israel.

This is what I'm seeing now; if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll get smacked down soon. But that's ok, I'm teachable.

I have been really enjoying this thread as well! So good and it got me to pull out my ESV study Bible to see what the notes had to say about Psalm 83.

I am curious to hear what others have to say about the last post above (I am teachable too ). Just this past week, I was listening to Christian radio and there was a program on where people call in with questions and pastors provide answers. A caller phoned in because he was positive that Isaiah 17 has been fulfilled in 732 BC . The pastor hosting the program stated he did not think what is covered in Isaiah 17 has been fulfilled and is an avid watcher of what is going on in Syria as well (they talk about current news each day at the start of the program), and he thinks the fulfillment of the Isaiah 17 prophecy is going to be very soon. I am not sure if the caller was convinced or not, but now just a few days later, I am seeing this stated again (on this thread), so very curious what others think. I just Googled this topic and do see other articles saying Isaiah 17 has already passed. I never had heard that before, and have always heard it was yet to come.

[SonSeeker]

Welcome to the Forum glc11.


Sean said:

I think if you look closer you will see that all aspects of the Isaiah 17 prophecy were not exactly fulfilled in the Assyrian onslaught of Damascus-Aram in 732 BC.

I'm still in the Prophecy 101 class, but will do further digging.

I hope no one thinks I'm suggesting we will go directly into Ezekiel 38/39 and skip Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83.

[oceanminded]

Great topic. "Ezekiel Option" by Joel Rozenberg is a novel that does a good job laying out possible scenarios that lead up to this prophetic event. I believe Russia is a sleeping Giant about to awake. A friend of mine who is an active pilot of 20 years in the U.S. Navy was telling me over the Holidays how Russia is deeply involved with Iran. He believes the KGB played an integral part in bringing down that U.S. drone over Iran. There are many roads that could lead us to the events described of in Ezekiel 38-39. It's exciting to see those events unfolding before our very own eyes.

[Carl]

This thread means a lot to me too. After reading numerous threads on Isaiah 17, Psalm 83, and Ezekiel 38/39 I realize that I have a lot to learn. These posts tell me that I need to know history as well as Bible prophesy. I'm picking up emphasis on things that I knew in a different context. Like the test of a prophet is that his prediction is 100% accurate.

What it boils down to is that I don't know the Bible as well as I thought I did. So I am still in Bible 101 too!

Thank you all that strives to make this forum more valuable!

[SonSeeker]

SonSeeker,

I think if you look closer you will see that all aspects of the Isaiah 17 prophecy were not exactly fulfilled in the Assyrian onslaught of Damascus-Aram in 732 BC.

Rule One of God-given prophecy is that the prophecy is fulfilled in every exacting detail. Since this did not occur in 732 BC, then an exact, and future, fulfillment has yet to occur. Isaiah 17 still has a future fulfillment; one that most eschatologists believe is very imminent.

Psalm 83 did not have an exact fulfillment per Asaph's prophecy in the Six Day War of June 1967. Psalm 83 began the process of final and complete fulfillment in the 7-month period between November 1947 and May 1948 when the specific objectives outlined in verses 2 through 5...





...were made manifest by the Arab League Military High Committee meeting in Damascus, Syria where representatives of all the peoples named by Asaph were present. This process of Psalm 83 fulfillment has continued in every Arab-Israeli war since then and it continues "as we speak" with a future fulfillment tied directly to that of Isaiah 17, Joshua 13:1-7 and a host of other directly related prophecies.

I agree that the final fulfillment of these prophecies, while of great importance with respect to the Lord's plan for Israel, do not have much impact on the Church, it is within the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39 that the crucial aspect for the end of the Church Age Dispensation is made manifest.

After praying, studying, and consulting about half a dozen different commentaries, I think I've finally figured out what you're referring to, Sean.

Although the Assyrians conquered Damascus in 732 BC, Damascus did not cease to be a city, nor did it become a "heap of ruins". It is still considered to be the oldest, continuously inhabited city in the world.

Do I get an 'A', professor?

Thanks for the nudge, Sean. It caused me to dig deeper than I ever thought I could, and also taught me just how little I know about the subject matter.

[Faulty]

Do you see that? God declares to Ezekiel - and to all of us living right now - that He will supernaturally reveal Himself to the gentile nations of the world through the overwhelming slaughter of Gog's entire confederated military forces and the fire He sends on the land of Magog.

First question: What purpose would there be to this for all of the gentile nations if it were not prior to the Harpazo?

And what does Ezekiel say occurs after the burial of Gog's confederate armies?

So, now the rapture is an event with signs preceeding it?

The purpose is so that "IN ORDER THAT THE NATIONS MAY KNOW ME, IN MY BEING SANCTIFIED IN THEE BEFORE THEIR EYES". The ESV says it like this, "You will come up against my people Israel, like a cloud covering the land. In the latter days I will bring you against my land, that the nations may know me, when through you, O Gog, I vindicate my holiness before their eyes." Ezek 38:16

It's a judgment on the nations, declaring there is a God in Israel. I don't understand how this makes it a sign that the battle must occur before the rapture at all, as salvation to those who God opens their eyes is still available even after both events.

Seems to me the only rapture "sign" we have is one that we cannot track, "a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in", Romans 11:25.

[Sean Osborne]

So, now the rapture is an event with signs preceeding it?

Faulty,

Absolutely not. Please read the thread discussion a little more carefully. This is an exercise in Bible eschatology. Consider the purposes as the Lord has clearly stated them and with respect to what is declared in the past tense by the Lord in Ezekiel 39:29.

[ftwspursfan]

OK, indulge me a little as I think out loud. My pastor did a study on Judges about a year ago and he continually referred back to the latter part of Joshua to show how Israel had turned away from the Lord. The Lord through Joshua commanded them to drive out the Canaanites throughout the land, but they did not obey and they intermarried with the Canaanites. It lead to all the problems Israel had throughout the Old Testament; yet the Lord never turned His back on them.

Do you think the Ps 83/Isa 17 war could be Israel finally fulfilling that command of the Lord? Can we look to Joshua to see what an expanded Israel will look like? How much time might be in between Ps 83 and Ezek 38/39? I've always thought that they might be pretty close together because Russia is going to be extremely mad at what Israel has done. Yet, the 'unwalled villages' has always stumped me because it suggests that there might be a decent period of time between the two wars.

My biggest problem is that I want the rapture to happen tonight or tomorrow. I'm ready to be 'caught up', but I also know there is work to be done while we're still here. Choosing between seeing my kids graduate high school, get married and make me a grandfather vs the rapture is no contest. I want to go Home!!

It pains me to see so many people blow off the Lord and see churches so water down scripture that you cannot tell the difference between their 'talks' and positive-thinking Godless speakers.

[GlennO]

I too am very happy with Sean's work! I'm down with rightly dividing the word of Truth!

As part of my navigation I wanted to nail down the notion that some thought Isaiah 17 was fulfilled. I'm satisfied Berean.

In 734 BC the areas around Damascus were overrun by the Assyrians and the city was laid to siege before it was taken in 732 BC. Despite this military defeat, peaceful dissemination of Aramean commerce and culture proved more important to the spread of the Aramean language than did political and military means. The Aramean culture attained its height in the ninth and eighth centuries BC. Aramean merchants were most responsible for spreading their language and culture. Once restricted to being the mercantile language of a people living in present-day Syria, by about 500 BC, Aramaic had become the universal language of commerce, culture, and government throughout the entire Fertile Crescent.
It became the language of Jesus and his people. By the sixth century AD, the Aramaic language was still of such influence that it gave birth in northern Mesopotamia to Syriac, which has survived to become the liturgic language of several Eastern churches. In fact Aramaic dialects are still spoken in some parts of the Near East, in particular among the Christian communities in northern Iraq, and in a small mountain village just outside of Damascus.
Nor was the dissemination of Aramaic confined to the Semitic areas. Under the Persian Emperor Darius the Great (521 - 486 BC), it was made the official, interprovincial language of the Persian government.The Arameans


Damascus is often claimed to be the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world, and evidence of settlement in the wider Barada basin dating back to 9000 BC exists. However within the area of Damascus there is no evidence for large-scale settlement until the second millennium BC. Burns, Ross (New edition 2007). Damascus: A History. Routledge. p. 2. ISBN 978-0415413176.

Isa 17:1 An oracle concerning Damascus. Behold, Damascus will cease to be a city and will become a heap of ruins.
Isa 17:2 The cities of Aroer are deserted; they will be for flocks, which will lie down, and none will make them afraid.
Isa 17:3 The fortress will disappear from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus; and the remnant of Syria will be like the glory of the children of Israel, declares the LORD of hosts.


I'm pretty comfortable the worst for Damascus is yet to come....

[SonSeeker]

It took some serious digging to discover the truth of Damascus as it relates to Isaiah 17, Glenn. My new bible which includes the NLT Study Bible as well as the Life Application Study Bible both agree that Isaiah 17 was fulfilled in 732 BC. There were also a number of commentaries that I consulted and many of them (including the short fat book) agree. It was GraceThruFaith that finally revealed the information I was looking for.

[Sean Osborne]

It took some serious digging to discover the truth of Damascus as it relates to Isaiah 17, Glenn. My new bible which includes the NLT Study Bible as well as the Life Application Study Bible both agree that Isaiah 17 was fulfilled in 732 BC. There were also a number of commentaries that I consulted and many of them (including the short fat book) agree. It was GraceThruFaith that finally revealed the information I was looking for.

SonSeeker,

2 Kings 16 is God's Holy Word on what occurred in Damascus in the Assyrian conquest of 723 BC. At that time Damascus clearly did not "cease from being a city" and become "a ruinous heap."

Therefore, Isaiah 17 cannot possibly have been fulfilled at that time. Any study Bible or exegesis which teaches such nonsense is a blatantly false teaching regarding the Word of God.

[Elijah's Mantle]

FINALLY

I had read the scripture you posted sean a few weeks ago and for the life of me could not stop wondering what in the world 2nd Kings could do for Ezekiel


Lo and behold we dont always see till we see

studying it out is gripping
I found Ive not been able to put it down

[Elijah's Mantle]

not only that but through the prophet Isaiah he was counseled and when this evil king did otherwise it was to his own ruin

[Elijah's Mantle]

2nd Kings 16:5
Then Rezin King of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel come up to Jerusalem to war and they besieged Ahaz
but could not overcome him

[Elijah's Mantle]

This process of Psalm 83 fulfillment has continued in every Arab-Israeli war since then and it continues "as we speak" with a future fulfillment tied directly to that of Isaiah 17, Joshua 13:1-7 and a host of other directly related prophecies.

tied directly is a real good way to say it

look how come , from scripture

God has quite a lot to say as well as show the people
even yes the modern church
And as uncanny as ever to many peoples utter shock and surprise
look how well the simple little book of Ruth
ties to Revelation read the book it gets absolutely amazing
especially this one
cause Its about to begin its fulfillment

look what he says
their bows also shall dash the yound men to pieces
when you read on you automatically cant help but take notice its as if your reading Revelation 16 from Isaiah
well its as so with the phrophecy being spoken by Isaiah
when you read Psalms
Its all there wrote as if were living in a time spoken of before already
thats whats not reckognized
it was not then either
otherwise the people would have known and fled

[Elijah's Mantle]

I have this absolutely burning question
been trying to avoid
to no avail


I cant help but see and realize many of the Northern parts folks seem to say is Russia or fits to Russia ITS SYRIA
modern SYRIA IRAQ and IRAN

Ive wondered lately if the A/C will come out of Syria
I dont know but its clear as daylight from scripture folks have placed Russia mostly
but LOOK
Its written of SYRIA

what you reckon ?

Sorry but I see the actual invasion route is no different than the past ones ands look even now and consider past invasion routes taken by Babylon Assyrians Greece etcetera ...

much of what is read pertains t o precise what Daniel wrote and said and people look at Russia when in fact they need look at Syria

does any one else recognize this from scripture ?

As early as 32 you read of Nort Syria Damascus Arpad and others and Hamath

[billym]

Outstanding thread.