Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal

[WKUHilltopper]

My all-time favorite President of the United States of America, Ronald Wilson Reagan, now with the Lord forevermore...

And as far as I know, the only President who actually witnessed to a Commie Premier.

[WalterNZ]

Hey it seems pretty hard to put all the pieces together.
I believe that although we all want to be as prepared as possible, remember that the rapture will occur like a thief in the night separating the sheep from the goats.


The signs spoken of in Matthew 24 are already occurring. In Christchurch NZ where I live weve had 10000 earthquakes over the last 2 years and the city centre is ruined. Ive experienced all the large quakes here and the force is something else..... Seems like the birth pains to me..

[SonSeeker]

Hey it seems pretty hard to put all the pieces together.
I believe that although we all want to be as prepared as possible, remember that the rapture will occur like a thief in the night separating the sheep from the goats.


The signs spoken of in Matthew 24 are already occurring. In Christchurch NZ where I live weve had 10000 earthquakes over the last 2 years and the city centre is ruined. Ive experienced all the large quakes here and the force is something else..... Seems like the birth pains to me..

Welcome to the Forum WalterNZ.

I believe what we are experiencing now is only the beginning of birth pains. As the birth nears, the pains become stronger and closer together, which means these events will become stronger and closer together. Sure, you've been experiencing many quakes where you live along the Ring of Fire, and there have been far worse quakes around this Ring recently, also. But Jesus also spoke of earthquakes in "diverse places", like places that are not earthquake prone. So we must look at the big picture, the entire world, not just our little corner of it.

As far as it seeming "pretty hard to put all the pieces together", that's why this Forum exists. We are expressing ideas, thoughts, or conclusions, regarding the interpretation of Scripture. We are simply putting our heads together in cyberspace to learn from each other. If we do this prayerfully, we will learn more about the Infinite. Bible scholars have been discussing these same issues for centuries, but the big difference is that now we are truly in "the last days" of the Church Age! This is an incredibly exciting time to be alive; where we have been chosen to witness and be a part of the events about happen.

As you can see, there is much more to Rapture Forums than just Rapture discussion. There are Prayer requests, even the Sporting dugout and Jokes. But in everyone of them, the center focus is on God and on how we relate to Him.

Again, welcome.

[mattfivefour]

Welcome, Walter! Glad to see another New Zealander here to balance off all the Aussies! What part of the country are you in? I had a friend who was born and raised in Ngaruawahia and began his acting career in Hamilton and wound up doing some TV series and films in New Zealand and Australia. Sadly he died a few years ago in Canada.

[micah719]

mattfivefour

Re: Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal
Welcome, Walter! Glad to see another New Zealander here to balance off all the Aussies! What part of the country are you in? I had a friend who was born and raised in Ngaruawahia and began his acting career in Hamilton and wound up doing some TV series and films in New Zealand and Australia. Sadly he died a few years ago in Canada.

Sydney!

Muahahahahaha!

Micah the Hirsute leaps onto his hybrid sheep-roo (aka "Wooly Jumper") and hops to safety.....

[mattfivefour]

Micah, you're losing it! Walter, sorry— I missed your mention of Christchurch in your earlier post!

[billym]

Sean, thanks for starting this thread, very exciting thinking about all of this.

[GlennO]

WalterNZ Welcome Brother

WalterNZ said:

Hey it seems pretty hard to put all the pieces together.
I believe that although we all want to be as prepared as possible, remember that the rapture will occur like a thief in the night separating the sheep from the goats.


The signs spoken of in Matthew 24 are already occurring. In Christchurch NZ where I live we’ve had 10000 earthquakes over the last 2 years and the city centre is ruined. Ive experienced all the large quakes here and the force is something else..... Seems like the birth pains to me..

Walter, of course when an area is hit with significant seismic event it is natural to wonder when will it stop? Earthquakes are unsettling. I live between the San Andreas and the Cascadia fault systems.

I offer this chapter heading with comments from the Believer’s Bible Commentary (BBC) concerning the Olivet Discourse.
XIII. THE KING'S OLIVET DISCOURSE (Chaps. 24, 25)
Chapters 24 and 25 form what is known as the Olivet Discourse, so named because this important pronouncement was given on the Mount of Olives. The discourse is entirely prophetic; it points forward to the Tribulation Period and the Lord's Second Coming. It primarily, though not exclusively, concerns the nation of Israel. Its locale is obviously Palestine; for example, “let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains” (Mat_24:16). Its setting is distinctly Jewish; for example, “Pray that your flight may not be ... on the Sabbath” (Mat_24:20). The reference to the elect (Mat_24:22) should be understood as God's Jewish elect, not the church. The church is not found in either the prophecies or parables of the discourse, as we shall seek to demonstrate. (emphasis mine)
A. Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple (24:1, 2)
The discourse is introduced by the significant statement that Jesus went out and departed from the temple This movement is especially significant in view of the words He had just uttered, “ ... your house is left to you desolate” (Mat_23:38). It reminds us of Ezekiel's description of the glory departing from the temple (Eze_9:3; Eze_10:4; Eze_11:23).

The Great Tribulation (Jacobs Trouble) begins the seventieth (final period) of the prophesy revealed to Daniel by Gabriel. Again, from BBC.

9:24 Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people (Israel) and for your holy city (Jerusalem). The historical fulfillment of the first part of the prophecy shows that the weeks are weeks of years. Thus seventy weeks equal 490 years. We will see that the seventy weeks are divided into seven weeks plus sixty-two weeks, and then, after a time gap, one final week. At the end of these seventy weeks, the following six things will happen:
To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins. While this may refer in a general sense to all Israel's sinful ways, it has special reference to the nation's rejection of the Messiah. At the Second Advent of Christ, a remnant will turn to Him in faith and the nation's transgression and sins will be forgiven.
To make reconciliation for iniquity. The basis for reconciliation was laid at Calvary, but this refers to the time, still future, when the believing portion of the nation of Israel will come into the benefit and enjoyment of the finished work of Christ.
To bring in everlasting righteousness. This, too, points forward to the Second Advent and the Millennium, when the King will reign in righteousness. It is everlasting righteousness in the sense that it will continue on into the eternal state.
To seal up vision and prophecy. The main body of OT prophecy centers on the glorious Return of Christ to earth, and His subsequent kingdom. Therefore, the bulk of prophecies will be fulfilled at the end of the seventy weeks.
And to anoint the Most Holy Place. At the beginning of the thousand-year reign, the temple described in Ezekiel 40-44 will be anointed or consecrated in Jerusalem. The glory will return in the Person of the Lord (Eze_43:1-5).
9:25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. This was the decree of Artaxerxes in 445 B.C. (Neh_2:1-8).
Until Messiah the Prince. This refers not merely to the First Advent of Christ, but more particularly to His death (see v. 26a).
There shall be seven weeks (forty-nine years) and sixty-two weeks (434 years). The sixty-nine weeks are divided into two periods, seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.
The city shall be built again, with plaza and moat, even in troublesome times. Jerusalem would be rebuilt (during the first seven weeks) with public square and protective channel, but not without opposition and turmoil.
9:26 Then after the sixty-two weeks—that is, after the sixty-two week portion of time, which is really at the end of the sixty-ninth week,
The Messiah shall be cut off. Here we have an unmistakable reference to the Savior's death on the cross. A century ago in his book The Coming Prince, Sir Robert Anderson gave detailed calculations of the sixty-nine weeks, using "prophetic years," allowing for leap years, errors in the calendar, the change from B.C. to A.D., etc., and figured that the sixty-nine weeks ended on the very day of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem, five days before his death.
But not for Himself, or literally and have nothing. This may mean that He had received nothing from the nation of Israel, to which He had come. Or it may mean that He died without apparent posterity (Isa_53:8). Or it may be a general statement of His utter poverty; He left nothing but the clothes that He wore.
And the people of the prince who is to come. This prince who is to come is the head of the revived Roman Empire, identified by some as the Antichrist. He will come to power during the Tribulation. His people, of course, are the Romans.
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The Romans, under Titus, destroyed Jerusalem and its magnificent gold-trimmed white marble temple in A.D. 70.
The end of it shall be with a flood. The city was leveled as if by a flood. Not one stone of the temple, for instance, was left on another. Titus forbade his soldiers to put Herod's temple to the torch, but in order to get the gold they disobeyed, thus melting down the gold. To retrieve the melted gold successfully from between the stones they had to pry loose the great stones, thus fulfilling Christ's words in Mat_24:1-2, as well as Daniel's prophecy.
And till the end of the war desolations are determined. From that time on, the history of the city would be one of war and destruction. The end here means the end of the times of the Gentiles.
9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture. It is never mentioned specifically in the OT; it was a secret hidden in God from the foundation of the world but revealed by the apostles and prophets of the NT period. However, the principle of a gap is nicely illustrated by our Lord in the synagogue at Nazareth (Luk_4:18-19). Jesus quoted Isa_61:1, Isa_61:2 a but cut it short at "the acceptable year of the LORD" (His First Advent), and left off the judgment of His Second Advent: "and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isa_61:2 b). In between was to occur the whole Church Age.
Then he (the Roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many (the unbelieving majority of the nation of Israel) for one week (the seven-year Tribulation Period). It may be a friendship treaty, a non-aggression treaty, or a guarantee of military assistance against any nation attacking Israel.
But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. The Roman prince will turn hostile toward Israel, forbidding further sacrifices and offerings to Jehovah.
And on the wing of abominations. We learn from Mat_24:15 that he will set up an abominable idolatrous image in the temple and presumably he will command that it be worshiped. Some think that wing here refers to a wing of the temple.
Shall be one who makes desolate. He will persecute and destroy those who refuse to worship the image.
Even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. Terrible persecution of the Jews will continue for the last half of the seventieth week, a period known as the Great Tribulation. Then the Roman prince, "the one who makes desolate," will himself be destroyed, as decreed by God, by being cast into the lake of fire (Rev_19:20).

Walter,The events of the seventieth week will be unprecedented in human history. Such that Jesus said at Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's (Israel) sake those days shall be shortened.

We will be long by that time. In fact we will be busy with our "individual performance evaluation" before our Redeemer, followed by the wedding supper.

Christ's Bride has a promise: 1Th 5:9-11(9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(10) Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
(11) Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

As Christ's Bride, will not spend one second Under the Wrath of God! We need only to look to Christ's First Advent precisely prophesied as demonstrated by Sir Robert Anderson's comprehensive investigation proving to the DAY Messiah's presentation to the nation Israel.(173,880 days exactly)


We should not minimize any aspect of judgments occurring upon the earth. He is Just and True. God is on the throne and I am confident in the extreme, that the Father is able to coordinate the commencement of the Great Tribulation With our evacuation with the because Jesus is given the word from the Father that the construction is satisfactory and to go get the Bride!

The Birth Pangs may be seen afar off, but we ought to not obsess over seismic events, famine, and false christs appearing.

This parable gives direction, Luk 19:12-15
(12) He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
(13) And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
(14) But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
(15) And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

[Everlasting Life]

Having a leader like Pooty-Poot

[Jumpmaster]

Here's my take (and a brother's, who studied this too).

Keep in mind that the chapter's are not talking about going down to Israel but the mountains of Israel (Ezekiel 38:8, 39:4)

The land of unwalled villages already exists!

The Gog/Magog context does not mention peace, it does mention "dwelling safely" and being at rest. Israel is weary of war, and is seeking peace, yet not at the expense of their national security. The Hebrew word for safely is "betach", it has a variation in meaning, while it can mean confident and secure, it can also mean false confidence or false security, even carelessness. The context reveals that the enemies of Israel are seen preparing for war, even recognized by the merchants of Tarshish, Sheba, and Dedan (Western powers, Saudia Arabia, and the Gulf Emirates). As the conflict appears to be realized, these nations ask the Gog/Magog confederation have you come to take a spoil and a prey. This indicates that at the time of this invasion that Israel and the Western powers refuse to confront the danger, even though the preparations for war are evident and their enemies grow in confidence and boldness. This is the precise scenario we find today, Israel though a mighty military power, is dwelling carelessly as the wolves prepare to pounce.

The term "unwalled villages" makes reference to the current settlements including those in Galilee that currently Hezbollah has been training to seize, settlements in the north are vulnerable to such an operation, have no security posts or barriers. The settlers however are heavily armed. The context does not mention cities, such as Tel Aviv or Haifa, it mentions these scattered settlements throughout northern Israel. The context also mentions that after seizing these, they will move to the desire of their eyes, the people dwelling carelessly in the midst of the land, which is the heart of Israel, Jerusalem. This is their prime target. When making reference to sending fire on the homelands of the invaders, the Lord God also mentions sending fire upon them that dwell carelessly in the Isles, this is a reference to the Gentile powers or the West, the term given is that they "dwell carelessly", in this context the same Hebrew word "betach" is used. While I am not a recognized scholar, I can tell you there is nothing preventing this Battle from coming to fruition, the problem that exists is wrongful interpretation of not only the context, but the Hebrew meaning within the context.


After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. (Ezekiel 38:8 )

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, (Ezekiel 38:11)

(Gog): thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. (Ezekiel 39:4)

This area (mountains of Israel) is formally Judea/Samaria or as the secular press calls it, the West Bank.

Check out the Security Fence that encompasses the left side of the mountains of Israel:
Map of the Israeli security Fence - Updated Status and Evolution

Gog/MaGog and the muslims hoards, coming from the north, would come down through Turkey, Lebanon, Syria and would come into a land of unwalled villages, as they are separated by sercurity fence or walls but not surrounded by them.

This is oho...

Jumpmaster

[Sean Osborne]

The Gog/Magog context does not mention peace, it does mention "dwelling safely" and being at rest.

Jumpmaster,

Not exactly. NKJV Ezekiel 38:11 says:

You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people (shaqat), who dwell safely (betach), all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’—

The full context is of peace and safety (shakat and betach) for "all of them" in a land of unwalled villages, having neither bars nor gates.

This is not the situation in Israel today, but it will be the situtation after the fulfillment of several key Pre-70th Week prophecies: Isaiah 17, Joshua 13:1-7 and Psalm 83.

Gog/MaGog and the muslims hoards

There is nothing in Ezekiel 38/39 which indicates "the muslims hordes." The identified nations which are sunni or shi'a muslim majority today (Persia, Puwt and Kuwsh - Iran, Libya and Sudan) are a second tier to the invasion leaders Magog, Rosh, Meshech and Tubal. Same goes for Turkey, it is not on the same level as Magog, Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, but is mentioned discretely and separately.

Syria, Lebanon and Jordan will have long ceased being Israel's enemies, as will Sheba and Dedan (the whole of the Arabian Peninsula - Arabia Felix and Arabia Deserta). This is why in that pre-70th Week time Israel will be living in peace and safety.

[RandallB]

The Lord tells us what will cause Israel to be dwelling in safety or confidence.

Eze 28:26 And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD their God.

It will be after the Lord judges the surrounding nations that hate the Lord and Israel. This happens in the Ps 83 - Is 17 - Zep 2 Middle East war.

[Sean Osborne]

The Lord tells us what will cause Israel to be dwelling in safety or confidence.

Ezekiel 28:26 "And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD their God."

It will be after the Lord judges the surrounding nations that hate the Lord and Israel. This happens in the Ps 83 - Is 17 - Zep 2 Middle East war.

Yes, precisely. Ezekiel 28:26 is the confirming Word of God in direct reference to the older prophecies of Joshua 13, Isaiah 17 and Asaph's Psalm 83 and others. This verse is actually a repetition of the context found in verse 24:

“And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”

Buh-bye Hezbollah, Hamas, Jihad Islami, Fatah and the lot of them that hate God and Israel. Buh-bye.

[GlennO]

Sean -

I'm on-board regarding the sequencing of the yet-to-be fulfilled prophesies you noted above.

It is exciting to see the border of the big jigsaw puzzle completed and the final pieces falling in place to reveal the big picture in Hi-Def.

Our Redeemer has prepared place for his Bride under the supervision of the Father (in accordance with Jewish custom). When the Father is satisfied with the work He will tell our Savior "Go get her Son!"

Then time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled the Church age will be will be past.

Gabriel's prophesy to Daniel concerning the 70th week will be center stage!

Praise God for allowing us to live in such a momentous time!!

[FaithInChrist]

Sean -

I'm on-board regarding the sequencing of the yet-to-be fulfilled prophesies you noted above.

It is exciting to see the border of the big jigsaw puzzle completed and the final pieces falling in place to reveal the big picture in Hi-Def.

Our Redeemer has prepared place for his Bride under the supervision of the Father (in accordance with Jewish custom). When the Father is satisfied with the work He will tell our Savior "Go get her Son!"

Then time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled the Church age will be will be past.

Gabriel's prophesy to Daniel concerning the 70th week will be center stage!

Praise God for allowing us to live in such a momentous time!!

Wow, amazing! Gives me goosebumps just anticipating!