A problem with Ezekiel 38-39

[mattfivefour]

OK. Now you guys just made me very hungry!

[beameup]

I'll keep my eye on Turkey (not the Thanksgiving kind ).
If/when the Moslems (Arabs) suffer another defeat as in Ps. 83,
then I would look for Turkey to play a pivotal role in Ez. 38-39
as the Moslems attempt to "save face" for their false god Allah
by once again attacking Israel with a massive ground attack
from the NORTH through Turkey.

[Suzanne]

I agree with everyone who thinks that Israel's new gas field will be one of the reasons that Russia gets pulled into Ezekiel 38 & 39.

I believe one of the reasons for the remaining Islamic countries (left after Psalm 83) to be part of Eze: 38 & 39 is four thousands years old--the hatred that Ishmael had for Issac. Another reason is Jerusalem. Even though I've never been to Israel, Jerusalem calls to me. Of course, I'm a Christian, and that's why I feel linked to it.

[Truth Files]

I would suggest that the scope of Ezekiel's vision is a focus upon the Middle East

The Lord is using the ancient post flood locators like the" land" of Magog and his brothers which is still in the north central Middle East today .... this land just has different occupiers today [adherents of Islam] .... there have been many different rulers of the same [Upper Tigris/Euphrates River basin], but the mixed populations are still the same there today

This same area was the core of the ancient Assyrian Empire [Nineveh ..... this tel is across the Tigris from Mosol, Iraq]

Micah 5:5-6 gives a clue to the same region with regard to the coming little horn of Daniel's visions [same as the first beast of Revelation] .... the "Assyrian" who will be defeated at Armageddon

Ezekiel's vision has two parts: the invasion and occupation of Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed ..... and the resulting battle of Armageddon 42 months later

[Chris]

I would suggest that the scope of Ezekiel's vision is a focus upon the Middle East

The Lord is using the ancient post flood locators like the" land" of Magog and his brothers which is still in the north central Middle East today .... this land just has different occupiers today [adherents of Islam] .... there have been many different rulers of the same [Upper Tigris/Euphrates River basin], but the mixed populations are still the same there today

This same area was the core of the ancient Assyrian Empire [Nineveh ..... this tel is across the Tigris from Mosol, Iraq]

Micah 5:5-6 gives a clue to the same region with regard to the coming little horn of Daniel's visions [same as the first beast of Revelation] .... the "Assyrian" who will be defeated at Armageddon

Ezekiel's vision has two parts: the invasion and occupation of Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed ..... and the resulting battle of Armageddon 42 months later

Micah 5:5-6 will be fulfilled during the MK according to Dr. John Walvoord. Also, I haven't been able to find any verses that refer to the AC as an "Assyrian" as most verses referencing an "Assyrian" are fulfilled prophecy.

[Truth Files]

The full context of Micah 5 indicates actions of the Lord at the vangard of a believing remnant of Israel just prior to His coming millennial kingdom

This passage of scripture should be read in conjunction with Isaiah 63:1; Joel 2:20; 3:1-21; Ezekiel 39:1-29; Zechariah 14:3-13; Revelation 19:11-21

These are all future prophecies not yet fulfilled .... Israel has never had a victory as described

The battle recorded at the end of the Lord's millennial kingdom [Revelation 20:7-9] is far different and certainly not the one described in the above passages of scripture

[mattfivefour]

Leaving aside the question of "the Assyrian" for now and avoiding the various debates over the order and specific process of end times events, I would like to dispel a common eschatalogical myth. There is no final battle such as many describe. At the end of the Great Tribulation, God tells us in His Word, that the Antichrist gathers all the nations of the world to make war against Christ and his army of saints. BUT ... does it say they then actually fight? No. It says merely that "20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh."(Revelation 19:20-21) Every one of those who accompany the false prophet and the beast are not slain by a physical sword but by "the sword from Christ mouth" which is the pure, unadulterated gospel. There is none who can stand when God speaks.

Then, one thousand years later, after Satan is loosed for one last refining of man, the Word says this: "7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:7-10)

Do you see a "battle" there, either?

What I see is that Satan tries one last attack on God's people and God simply devours them with fire from Heaven. No war. No battle. No fighting.

The only actual battle or true war referenced in Revelation is the one where the Antichrist moves against Israel (Revelation 16 through 19 and the resulting outcome.)

Satan would have us all think that there will be a tremendous battle between Satan and Jesus Christ. In fact, TWO tremendous battles. This makes him sound powerful. But he is a liar. Always has been. Always will be. The plain fact is Satan is ALREADY defeated. There is no more battle to come. He was defeated once and for all at Calvary. There is nothing in Satan's power that in any way can challenge God. He tried it once and was thrown out of Heaven and, at Calvary, his power over man destroyed once and for all in those who come to Christ.

So disabuse yourself of the notion that God must fight a battle to defeat Satan. He already did. And it was no contest. God won. Forever. There was no doubt ... and He demonstrated his supreme and unalterable victory and made an open show of Satan and of all of his forces in their eternal defeat. (Colossians 2:15; Psalm 68:18)

[Robert]

Leaving aside the question of "the Assyrian" for now and avoiding the various debates over the order and specific process of end times events, I would like to dispel a common eschatalogical myth. There is no final battle such as many describe. At the end of the Great Tribulation, God tells us in His Word, that the Antichrist gathers all the nations of the world to make war against Christ and his army of saints. BUT ... does it say they then actually fight? No. It says merely that "20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh."(Revelation 19:20-21) Every one of those who accompany the false prophet and the beast are not slain by a physical sword but by "the sword from Christ mouth" which is the pure, unadulterated gospel. There is none who can stand when God speaks.

Then, one thousand years later, after Satan is loosed for one last refining of man, the Word says this: "7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:7-10)

Do you see a "battle" there, either?

What I see is that Satan tries one last attack on God's people and God simply devours them with fire from Heaven. No war. No battle. No fighting.

The only actual battle or true war referenced in Revelation is the one where the Antichrist moves against Israel (Revelation 16 through 19 and the resulting outcome.)

Satan would have us all think that there will be a tremendous battle between Satan and Jesus Christ. In fact, TWO tremendous battles. This makes him sound powerful. But he is a liar. Always has been. Always will be. The plain fact is Satan is ALREADY defeated. There is no more battle to come. He was defeated once and for all at Calvary. There is nothing in Satan's power that in any way can challenge God. He tried it once and was thrown out of Heaven and, at Calvary, his power over man destroyed once and for all in those who come to Christ.

So disabuse yourself of the notion that God must fight a battle to defeat Satan. He already did. And it was no contest. God won. Forever. There was no doubt ... and He demonstrated his supreme and unalterable victory and made an open show of Satan and of all of his forces in their eternal defeat. (Colossians 2:15; Psalm 68:18)

Agreed. Against an omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent being, how could a created individual with LIMITED powers even HOPE to put up a fight? If you want to talk about utterly pathetic one-sided "fights", this is the epitome of the genre.

Satan is as much a threat against God Almighty and his plans as a learning-disabled fruit fly!!

[Meg]

So disabuse yourself of the notion that God must fight a battle to defeat Satan. He already did. And it was no contest. God won. Forever. There was no doubt ... and He demonstrated his supreme and unalterable victory and made an open show of Satan and of all of his forces in their eternal defeat. (Colossians 2:15; Psalm 68:18)

[canada_1981]

Ezekiel 38-39, two of my favorite chapters in the Bible. I have never really looked at Germany as being a threat to Israel in those chapters. Germany is still under major rules and regulations as to what they can, or can't have as far as military equipment due to one of the most infamous dictatorships in history. John Hagee, a very famous pastor from San Antonio, has said in a booked called; "Israel Countdown" that he sees the oil market being a huge reason why Israel is attacked, with Russia coming for the minerals the Dead Sea holds. Generally, these nations are well under way in their attack against Israel. It is sometime around the middle of their attack and slaughter of Israel, that God's extreme wrath will be felt. An earthquake will kill millions of invading forces, fire and ice from the heavens will rain down on them, hail and lightning would damage any invading Bombers and Fighter Jets, and bring them to a fireball like crash on the ground. The pilots wouldn't be able to eject. The hail would destroy their parachutes. Five out of every 6 invading forces will die on the battlefield they have wrongly come against. That's 83%! Mankind is in line for the greatest battle the world will ever see, and with it so close, and so many signs showing it, God is hated more than ever, and so are the Jews. Why? Because apparently God doesn't exist. Sad.

[Sean Osborne]

There is no reason to set aside the question of "the Assyrian," especially with the Holy Bible set directly in front of oneself, and it's pages opened to read, and with the prayerful guidance of the Holy Spirit. If one does these things then there is no mystery to any of this Scripture or the events it vividly describes or the earthly time periods of their occurrence.

To begin with the "Assyrians" came from northern Iraq, from Asshur.

Understanding the Biblical references to "the Assyrian" is directly and eschatologically connected to obtaining a complete understanding of Genesis 10:8-11, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, Psalm 83 (particularly verse 8), Revelation 9:11, Revelation 17:8... and to knowing that the prophetic templates of the world's first dictator (Nimrod); the fore-runner of the Antichrist (i.e. Seleucid-Macedonian King Antiochus IV Epiphanes) and the final world dictator, the coming Antichrist (a/k/a "the Assyrian) are all intimately linked.

Knowing these Biblical truths will inform one of who and what the Antichrist was, is not and yet will be.

Clearly, the prophetic referring to Antichrist as "the Assyrian" is a euphemism.

And none of this has anything to do with the personage of Gog or of the events in Ezekiel 38/39, excepting only that the prophetic events of Ezekiel 38/39 set the stage for the arrival of the Antichrist that will be during Daniel's 70th Week.

[Robert]

Sean, I take the term "the Assyrian" to describe the AC's inner character rather than where he would originate from. Am I correct in that?

[Sean Osborne]

Sean, I take the term "the Assyrian" to describe the AC's inner character rather than where he would originate from. Am I correct in that?

Robert,

Yes, absolutely. The ancient Assyrians were notoriously brutal towards those they conquered in battle. It's definitely a character reference, a euphemism for the Antichrist's initial human nature. The Assyrians today are the oldest Christian ethnic group on the planet.

The coming Antichrist's inner character was also described by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as "that man of sin" upon his being revealed to the world.

Paul then immediately doubled his characterization of him to include "the son of perdition."

That is a direct reference to the demon Abaddon/Apollyon who will possess his body completely after a mortal head and shoulder wound (assassination attempt or combat wound?) occurs.

And notice "the son of perdition" is not revealed to the world as "that man of sin" is revealed. "The son of perdition" moniker is just something which occurs to "that man of sin" once he is possessed.

"The son of perdition" in the Greek language Paul wrote in was "huios apōleia" and means "son of the destroyer" or "son of utter destruction" which just just another way of referencing the names Abaddon (Destruction) and Apollyon (Destroyer) who will possess and reanimate his body.

[canada_1981]

I have read a couple times here, that people have wrote; "We will just have to wait and see who attacks Israel." Really? The Bible describes this war as being after the rapture. I really don't want to be around to see who attacks Israel. Considering countries world wide will be hit in retaliation for refusing to stand up for Israel. Ever noticed Saudi Arabia is never listed as an attacking nation? They have always sided with the west, as it is in their best interests. I can see them being one of the nations that gives a very lame protest to the war waged on Israel. The Bible does say that there will be a very lame protest in response to the war launched on Israel. It's always been my opinion that these invading forces are on their way out when God gets extremely angry, and attacks with many supernatural powers and natural disasters.

[Sean Osborne]

The Bible describes this war as being after the rapture.

canada_1981,

Please provide the Scripture text where the the prophetic Word of God says the War of Gog/Magog occurs after the Harpazo of the Bride of Christ?

If you were to say the Harpazo may well be "concurrent with" the general time of Ezekiel 38/39, I would agree based upon the past tense found in Ezekiel 39:29 with respect to the end of the Church age and the Lord's having "poured out" his Spirit upon Israel.

However, I remain quite interested on what Scripture you would cite to support your statement.

The Table of Nations in Genesis 10 tells us with high precision who the attacking nations will be.

Ever noticed Saudi Arabia is never listed as an attacking nation?

Both Sheba and Dedan (the whole of the Arabian Peninsula) side with the West. This paradigm shift will be due to the result of the wars of Isaiah 17, Psalm 83, Joshua 13:1-7 and Jeremiah 49:34-39. The Arab's of that time will no longer be Islamic, but will have acknowledged YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the one true God.

[rapturewisdom]

Ezekiel 38-39 is been set up as we speak, in MHO i think the Church well be here and let me explain why,
maybe The Lord well use this Old prophecy for one more great awaking.

[Robert]

Ezekiel 38-39 is been set up as we speak, in MHO i think the Church well be here and let me explain why,
maybe The Lord well use this Old prophecy for one more great awaking.

But scripture never speaks of any awakenings before the rapture. In fact, it speaks of a "great falling away".

[Sean Osborne]

There are millions of souls being saved all over planet earth as we speak. At the same time there is great apostasy occuring in mainline churches around the world.

I believe Ezekiel 38/39 will be set up by the results of the Psalm 83/Isaiah 17 war (to include Joshua 13:1-7 and Jeremiah 49:34-39 as well).

The result of Ezekiel 38/39 will set up the Antichrist's rise to power as a peacemaker and his "covenant among many" which reveals him to those who believe the Word of God.

Somewhere in the midst of the years which encompass these events the Bride of Christ will be caught up.

[Kenny64]

I'm sorry. sometimes when I dash something off it comes out like I think. (Yes, I do think in words like that since that is how I was raised.) But I usually try to rephrase into common terms.

I guess I am a dinosaur from a bygone age when literacy was the norm and polysyllabism was not considered a genetic defect.

However surely you must admit that the phrase to which you refer says exactly what I mean and in the fewest number of words.

(OK, sorry. I shall try to be conversational in future. )

It is nice to see you are humble. Matthew 11:29 Proverbs 15:1

[trandraskell]

Leaving aside the question of "the Assyrian" for now and avoiding the various debates over the order and specific process of end times events, I would like to dispel a common eschatalogical myth. There is no final battle such as many describe. At the end of the Great Tribulation, God tells us in His Word, that the Antichrist gathers all the nations of the world to make war against Christ and his army of saints. BUT ... does it say they then actually fight? No. It says merely that "20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse[/U], and all the birds were filled with their flesh."(Revelation 19:20-21) Every one of those who accompany the false prophet and the beast are not slain by a physical sword but by "the sword from Christ mouth" which is the pure, unadulterated gospel. There is none who can stand when God speaks.

Then, one thousand years later, after Satan is loosed for one last refining of man, the Word says this: "7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Do you see a "battle" there, either?

What I see is that Satan tries one last attack on God's people and God simply devours them with fire from Heaven. No war. No battle. No fighting.

The only actual battle or true war referenced in Revelation is the one where the Antichrist moves against Israel Satan would have us all think that there will be a tremendous battle between Satan and Jesus Christ. In fact, TWO tremendous battles. This makes him sound powerful. But he is a liar. Always has been. Always will be. The plain fact is Satan is ALREADY defeated. There is no more battle to come. He was defeated once and for all at Calvary. There is nothing in Satan's power that in any way can challenge God. He tried it once and was thrown out of Heaven and, at Calvary, his power over man destroyed once and for all in those who come to Christ.

So disabuse yourself of the notion that God must fight a battle to defeat Satan. He already did. And it was no contest. God won. Forever. There was no doubt ... and He demonstrated his supreme and unalterable victory and made an open show of Satan and of all of his forces in their eternal defeat.

great points mattfivefour