No Gog and Magog yet

[bluejay87]

This is certainly a hot topic with all that is going on in the Middle East and with Russia. So many prophecy experts and students like most of us pay alot of attention to this subject.

However for this to happen Israel has to have a false sense of security. Ezk. 38:11 is very clear about this.

"And thou shat say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars or gates".

This is pretty clear what Israel has to be like before this invasion begins. This does not seem likely to happen to me unless Israel feels protected for some reason.

To me, the only way I see this is if they are part of a larger group.
If they sign a peace plan today, there walls will still not be unmanned.

Please let me know your thoughts

[Sean Osborne]

This does not seem likely to happen to me unless Israel feels protected for some reason.

To me, the only way I see this is if they are part of a larger group.
If they sign a peace plan today, there walls will still not be unmanned.

Please let me know your thoughts

bluejay87,

I would suggest you consider the caveat of Israel's security as prophesied by Ezekiel in light of the prophetic events which will occur prior to the War of Gog/Magog - specifically - Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83.

You can consider this in any number of ways, but I'll suggest the two best in my opinion.


1.) There are many threads within this forum that directly address the security that Israel will possess in the aftermath of the fulfillment of Is 17 and Ps 83.

2.) There is also Bill Salus' book, Isralestine, which will provide you with the details of this coming real-world paradigm regarding Ezekiel 38/39.

[Faith]

Sean

I believe Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 will give Israel the temporary peace,and the unwalls for Ez 38 & 39 to happen....

[open door]

The Lord has promised to regather the Children of Israel into the Land. We know this is true, because the Bible tells us. BUT there are more Jews STILL living in New York, Florida, and California, than in Israel.

I don't think we should be looking for any signs of prophecy which belongs to Israel during this dispensation of Grace. Do you?

Howard, please read Ezekiel Chapters 36 & 37. I think that it gives some prophecies concerning Israel in these last days.

[open door]

What do you think I am...a baby at this?

Don't you think that Satan, as well, knows what the scripture says Israel should look like in the last days? Don't you think he has his counterfeits set up? The point of my comment was the great majority of Israel is NOT in the Land.

The other thing is that from what I have read so far, everyone here is clearly dwelling on the "Signs". WHY? This is the Dispensation of Grace. Or did you people not know that?

Well, Howard, I leave you to your own understanding, whatever that is. We take the Bible as the inerrant Word of God, and interpret it with the Holy Spirit's help, from a literal standpoint. God gives everyone free-will, and you are therefore entitled to your opinions. There is overwhelming scripture, "rightly-divided", that supports what we believe here. Perhaps you want to argue and divide, as a group. I don't bite. Again, I leave you to "your own understanding", may God bless you.

[ArmyofHeaven777]

This is certainly a hot topic with all that is going on in the Middle East and with Russia. So many prophecy experts and students like most of us pay alot of attention to this subject.

However for this to happen Israel has to have a false sense of security. Ezk. 38:11 is very clear about this.

"And thou shat say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars or gates".

This is pretty clear what Israel has to be like before this invasion begins. This does not seem likely to happen to me unless Israel feels protected for some reason.

To me, the only way I see this is if they are part of a larger group.
If they sign a peace plan today, there walls will still not be unmanned.

Please let me know your thoughts

Gog/Magog doesn't happen until the end of the tribulation-Ezekiel 39 makes that very clear.

[open door]

Gog/Magog doesn't happen until the end of the tribulation-Ezekiel 39 makes that very clear.

Army, I think we need to take another look at this. Dr. David Jeremiah preached a sermon on this, and sorry to say, I didn't have pencil & paper handy.lol. He noted at least 8 or 9 differences between Ezekiel's War (Chs. 39-39), and the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period. I remember that one is Ezekiel's War only involves certain nations, whereas Armageddon involves all the nations of the world. I'm hoping that I can find his sermon on the internet to get the rest of the differences. Thanks

[Faith]

Just something to 'think' about for I know how confusing this can be....

When will Ez 38 & 39 be fulfilled?

No past historical events match this prophecy, so it still awaits a future fulfillment.

Some think this attack on Israel should be identified with the attack of Gog and Magog at the end of Christ's millennial reign found in Rev. 20:7-9, but his identification has several flaws:

The results of Ezekiel's battle do not coincide with the events that follow the battle in Rev. 20.

Why bury the dead for seven months after the battle (Ez 39:12-13) when the next prophetic event is the resurrection of the unsaved dead? (Rev. 20:11-13)

Why would the people remain on earth after the battle to burn the weapons of war for seven years (Ez 39:9-10) instead of entering immediately into eternity? Rev. 21:1-4

The events after each battle are so different that two separate battles must be assumed.

The effect on the people is different.

In Ez the battle is the catalyst God will use to draw Israel to Himself and to end her captivity.

But the battle in Rev. 20 will occur after Israel has been faithful to her God and has enjoyed His blessings for 1,000 years.

If the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 is not at the end of the Mill, could it be at the beginning of the Mill?

This also seems extremely doubtful.

Everyone who enters the Mill will be a believer (John 3:3),and will have demonstrated his faith by protecting God's Chosen People.

At the beginning of the Mill all weapons of war will be destroyed in Micah 4:1-4.

Thus it seems difficult to see a war ocurring when the unsaved warriors have been eleminated and their weapons destroyed.

It seems best to place Ez's battle in the Tribulation.

Other internal markers indicate that it should be placed in the first three and one-half year years of the seven-year period.

The attack will come when Israel is at peace.

When Israel's covenant with the Antichrist is in effect at the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week (Dan. 9:27a), she will be at peace.

But after the covenant is broken at the middle of the seven-year period, the nation will suffer tremendous persecution.

This will provide the time needed to bury the dead and to burn the weapons of war.

So the battle described by Ezekiel may take place sometime during the first three and one-half years of the seven year period before Christ's second coming.

Possibly the battle will occur just before the midpoint of the seven-year period.

ArmyofHeaven~

Open Door~

Sean~

Bluejay~

[bghtnpd4]

I agree with Sean and OD, and the battle at the end of the Book of Revelation is different from the one in Ezekiel. I would refer people to gracethrufaith.com for more research on the subject.

[ArmyofHeaven777]

I agree with Sean and OD, and the battle at the end of the Book of Revelation is different from the one in Ezekiel. I would refer people to gracethrufaith.com for more research on the subject.

A verse in Ezekiel 39 says "It is done"-unless the 7 year tribulation is supposed to be full of peace and prosperty, "it is done" means "it is done". Jack Kelley's analysis is very flawed.

[bghtnpd4]

I still disagree, as do most of the prominent prophecy teachers...

[mattfivefour]

A verse in Ezekiel 39 says "It is done"-unless the 7 year tribulation is supposed to be full of peace and prosperty, "it is done" means "it is done". Jack Kelley's analysis is very flawed.

Clearly in Ezekiel 39:8 something referred to as "it" is done. But what is the thing to which the pronoun "it" refers?

[ArmyofHeaven777]

Clearly in Ezekiel 39:8 something referred to as "it" is done. But what is the thing to which the pronoun "it" refers?

Revelations 20 is the only other time in the bible that talks about Gog and Magog, that is at the end of the 1000 year mil.

How is this a different Gog and Magog?

[mattfivefour]

Sorry, but how does what you just wrote answer the question? What is the IT referred to in Ezekiel 39:8?

[Sean Osborne]

Gog/Magog doesn't happen until the end of the tribulation-Ezekiel 39 makes that very clear.

No, on the contrary, Ezekiel 39:25-29 makes it very clear that the invasion attempt occurs prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week.

“Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, then they shall know that I am the LORD their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord GOD.”

The abundant past-tense references and the focus from that point forward is once again on Israel and not the Bride(Church). And notice that throughout Ezekiel 38-39 there is not one reference to the Temple or Temple worship or the Daily Sacrifice. Clearly and unambiguously this prophetic war occurs prior to Daniel's 70th Week and the advent of the Antichrist.

[Sean Osborne]

Since no response to Matt's question to Army777 regarding what the "it" in Ezekiel 39:8 has been forthcoming... let's answer it.

Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this [is] the day whereof I have spoken.

Behold, it is bow' , meaning come to pass and it is hayah meaning to be existent, to have occured.

What is it?

It is the day of which the Lord has spoken, and that day was described in Ezekiel 38:17-18

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; [Art] thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days [many] years that I would bring thee against them? And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face."

[mattfivefour]

Absolutely, Sean. I was hoping Army would answer it. And then explain how he reconciles his view of the timing of Gog-Magog with it.

[LdyinChrist]

Thanks Sean and Matt

Great work

The Bible study I attend thinks Ezekiel 38/39 war happens at the end of the ME...I am gathering information...rather new to this study.

Keep inputtin lol I'm all ears

I mean eyes (rolls em)

[Sean Osborne]

Absolutely, Sean. I was hoping Army would answer it. And then explain how he reconciles his view of the timing of Gog-Magog with it.

Matt,


When I saw in the post above that Army777 was not able to distinguish Ezekiel's Gog/Magog from Revelations Gog/Magog but instead concluded that post by asking a further question concerning the difference, it became crystal clear to myself that the correct response to your question would not be forthcoming and that the correct course of action at that point would be to set the standard high by applying The Word in definitive instruction.

This appears to have been the correct course of action as LdyinChrist, and perhaps others we're not aware of who are reading this thread, were waiting for the correct response.

This gets back to an issue I have noticed in recent months. There is a great deal of errant teaching going on within the Body of Christ on this very topic and it needs to be immediately corrected every time it appears. What Army777 was hinting at is a mainstay of the false teaching of the Eastern Leg-Islamic Antichrist nonsense.

[bghtnpd4]

I absolutely agree, Sean...there are even false teachings going around here!!! I about fell out of my chair reading some of them tonight!