For You Men And The Ladies Who Love You

[Meg]

This is an incredibly important teaching series.

[arapahoepark]

Isn't this oneness pentecostal TD Jakes?

[Meg]

[Meg]

Isn't this oneness pentecostal TD Jakes?

As a matter of fact, yes it is. And before you go talking trash about the man, please give his incredibly important sermon series a listen.

[Hannah]

T D Jakes is a Onessness Pentecostal who advocates Universalism.

The guy has a long list of heresies that he has been recorded teaching; just go to Youtube.

However Jakes and other like him have a habit of wrapping their lies in the Truth or have some kind of good feel relationship teaching to give them some credibility.

Personally as a Lady who wants her husband to know the Truth I would prefer mine reads the Bible.

[Meg]

T D Jakes is a Onessness Pentecostal who advocates Universalism.

The guy has a long list of heresies that he has been recorded teaching; just go to Youtube.

However Jakes and other like him have a habit of wrapping their lies in the Truth or have some kind of good feel relationship teaching to give them some credibility.

Personally as a Lady who wants her husband to know the Truth I would prefer mine reads the Bible.

Please post your proof. I have watched him for 6 years, own 3 or 4 of his books, and am watching him again this week. He has done nothing wrong. This series is for men, about men, and of inestimable value to us women who need to understand our men. Thats why I posted it. If he's so wrong, is ANYONE doing what he's doing, at least as well or better? Please do share.

[Robert]

Okay, let's be fair here:

"“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?” The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?” Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel. “For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath? “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”" ( John 7:19-24, NASB, emphasis mine)

Discernment isn't avoiding everything, but telling the difference between truth and error. I heard this man preach in this series and could not find any fault with what he preached. If he is in error, then I would like to challenge the folks reading this topic to view ALL the videos before issuing an opinion on the series and show where he is in error.

And on that note, I would also like to challenge folks to scrutinize their own "favorite" preachers; if we are to condemn one according to a standard, then we must condemn all. None of us have it "all together".

Wrong isn't wrong just for those we don't like....

[Hannah]

2TI 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

As for TD Jakes you need to do that work yourself. I won't be part of a slinging match.

TD Jakes is not Jesus Christ. He is a man and if you think he is beyond being scrutinised what can I do or say.

You need to check out what TD Jakes teaches about Jesus and other Bible doctrines for yourself. Because you will not be convinced by me. Since you already state you think he is wonderful.

You're not wanting me to SHARE but goading me into a fight. I won't bite and get into a debate over this or anything else on this board. I've had enough argument/debate and I won't get into one here. I do have the websites with articles, they are really easy to find and there are Youtubes as well so you can hear Mr Jakes for yourself. However I can sense you are not interested in my proof.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

It doesn't serve any purpose to our Christian faith nor does it glorify God to get each other upset.

You see TD Jakes as wonderful that is your opinion and you have a right to your opinion. I respect that and that is why I will not bite and argue with you.

[Meg]

Robert and I watched the whole 10 part series. We've been watching this material all week, and after tonight's installment (roughly part 6 in the You Tube series) I decided this was important enough to share. Jakes insights on how men think and also some about how women think and why communication breaks down, helped us both enormously. Beyond our young relationship, his insights helped us understand Robert's Dad and gave us ideas on how to help him with his own depression, and I will never view a fallen male minister quite the same way again. Part 6 is especially important, if your man clammed up, and you don't understand why, or if a man in your life is in trouble and the haunting question is "How COULD he have..." This series is so important! I hope it helps many many men and the women who love them... That is why I stuck my neck out and posted this.

[Hannah]

Okay, let's be fair here:

"“Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?” The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?” Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel. “For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath? “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”" ( John 7:19-24, NASB, emphasis mine)

Discernment isn't avoiding everything, but telling the difference between truth and error. I heard this man preach in this series and could not find any fault with what he preached. If he is in error, then I would like to challenge the folks reading this topic to view ALL the videos before issuing an opinion on the series and show where he is in error.

And on that note, I would also like to challenge folks to scrutinize their own "favorite" preachers; if we are to condemn one according to a standard, then we must condemn all. None of us have it "all together".

Wrong isn't wrong just for those we don't like....

I wasn't going to come back but I did have to answer this.

I think those who know me here would say I am not one who just has petty likes and dislikes of various preachers.

I also want to point out I do not dislike the man TD Jakes. I do not agree with His teachings. These videos are not the Sum total of ALL that TD Jakes preachers.

I don't care to end up arguing or debating here. My comments were not made against the man because I don't like him or his preaching style but because I know from my own research what he teaches and preaches outside the topic of Male Emotional Feelings.

If you want to learn more of what TD Jakes preaches especially about the Trinity (or should I say the Oneness of God) and how he views Jesus then there are plenty of articles in threads for TD Jakes in the RF sub-forum for Apostasy.

Quote Originally Posted by Hannah

T D Jakes is a Onessness Pentecostal who advocates Universalism.

The guy has a long list of heresies that he has been recorded teaching; just go to Youtube.

However Jakes and other like him have a habit of wrapping their lies in the Truth or have some kind of good feel relationship teaching to give them some credibility.

Personally as a Lady who wants her husband to know the Truth I would prefer mine reads the Bible.

I don't recall making any comment JaKes was bad simply because of these videos?

[king'sbloomingrose]

.

[mattfivefour]

There are a lot of negative comments tossed around about T.D. Jakes in the Christian world. As there is about a lot of preachers. Including Dave Wilkerson, who likely did as much for the Kingdom as any man has. I have heard attacks on the Wesleys, and Knox, Luther, Tynbdale, Scofield (wow! there is a name that will provike sharp and bitter reaction!), and a number of the other early evangelical preachers. More recently there were major attacks against Spurgeon and against many others.

I tend to look at a man's CLEAR doctrines for myself. Much of what I find as "proof" of apostasy in attacks on various preachers is hair-splitting. I am not saying that is the case with Jakes. However, in his case I have read some things that would indicate he IS Oneness (which is major error); but then I have heard other things from his lips that would indicate he is NOT Oneness. Ultimately, I guess, for me this is unimportant. I do not go to his church nor do I sit under his doctrinal teaching. And I WILL warn others what to watch out for with him, in the event that what is said about him is true. But, based on my experience, for everything that someone can point to as evidence of error I can point to something else that contradicts that. And, in most cases, people are not going from what they personally have heard and experienced but from what others say and argue for (or against).

The apologetics Index listing for Jakes is typical of the criticisms I have read: "Jakes' doctrinal diversity appears to include classic Oneness Pentecostal Heresies ..." Note the word "appears". Not that his doctrine includes heresies ... but that it "appears" to include heresies. I agree that Jakes MAY be a Sabellian (Modalist), believing that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three manifestations of the One God, not three separate persons who make up the One God. I have yet to be convinced that the difference between the two views, when all is said and done, will turn out to be of eternal difference to us. It is the subject of great theological argument (and just how man angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?) and provokes sharp judgmental prophesying of eternal doom on both sides. But for me if a man believes that God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit and as Jakes own site proclaims...

There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ is true God and true man, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He died on the cross, the complete and final sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. Further, He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven, where, at the right hand of the Majesty on High, He is now our High Priest and Advocate.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and during this age, to convict men of sin, regenerate the believing sinner, indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.

...then I am not going to run screaming down the road in horror when he speaks.

People tend to jump every time Jakes is quoted; but never say a word about John MacArthur (whom I love) who is a staunch five-point Calvinist and consequently preaches that God chooses some to be saved and some to go to hell, regardless of what they themselves might want. Charles Stanley and RC Sproul preach the same. That form of Calvinism is also grievous error and maligns God. But do we bar them from being quoted here or having some of their selected works posted? No. We take the good and leave out the bad. Very, very few men believe perfectly in all areas of doctrine.

As I understand it, the purpose of posting this series by Jakes was to give some helpful information to men about wives (and vice versa). Since it has nothing to do with salvation or the foundations of our faith, I am not overly concerned it is here. In fact it may be useful to some. I know people who have had their marriages immensely helped by the understanding of each other that has come from these messages. (I even know a Christian couple for whom the secular book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" was used of God to provide them with some insight into the emotional differences between men and women. And frankly I would rather people got the message from TD Jakes who believes in salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross alone than from the secular John Gray who wrote the "Men are from Mars etc" book and who follows the teachings of the Yogi who founded Transcendental Meditation.)

So the point has been made in this thread. Jakes MAY be a preacher of Oneness heresies. He possibly may NOT. But this is about men and women understanding each other. I know there is a school of thought out there that says if you have wrong doctrine nothing you say can be trusted and everything you say can be used of Satan to mislead people. In that case, we are ALL in a lot of trouble. Outside of the writers of the New Testament, I know of no men whose doctrine is right on every point. (Even Peter, for that matter, strayed from true doctrine that God Himself had given him in a vision and had to be rebuked by Paul.) Let's take this series for what it is: some information about men and women and their differences.

And if in future someone posts one of Jakes' teachings on fundamental doctrinal points and he is preaching error on those points I will be the FIRST to jump on it and delete it.

God bless.

Matt

[Robert]

There are a lot of negative comments tossed around about T.D. Jakes in the Christian world. As there is about a lot of preachers. Including Dave Wilkerson, who likely did as much for the Kingdom as any man has. I have heard attacks on the Wesleys, and Knox, Luther, Tynbdale, Scofield (wow! there is a name that will provike sharp and bitter reaction!), and a number of the other early evangelical preachers. More recently there were major attacks against Spurgeon and against many others.

I tend to look at a man's CLEAR doctrines for myself. Much of what I find as "proof" of apostasy in attacks on various preachers is hair-splitting. I am not saying that is the case with Jakes. However, in his case I have read some things that would indicate he IS Oneness (which is major error); but then I have heard other things from his lips that would indicate he is NOT Oneness. Ultimately, I guess, for me this is unimportant. I do not go to his church nor do I sit under his doctrinal teaching. And I WILL warn others what to watch out for with him, in the event that what is said about him is true. But, based on my experience, for everything that someone can point to as evidence of error I can point to something else that contradicts that. And, in most cases, people are not going from what they personally have heard and experienced but from what others say and argue for (or against).

The apologetics Index listing for Jakes is typical of the criticisms I have read: "Jakes' doctrinal diversity appears to include classic Oneness Pentecostal Heresies ..." Note the word "appears". Not that his doctrine includes heresies ... but that it "appears" to include heresies. I agree that Jakes MAY be a Sabellian (Modalist), believing that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three manifestations of the One God, not three separate persons who make up the One God. I have yet to be convinced that the difference between the two views, when all is said and done, will turn out to be of eternal difference to us. It is the subject of great theological argument (and just how man angels CAN dance on the head of a pin?) and provokes sharp judgmental prophesying of eternal doom on both sides. But for me if a man believes that God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit and as Jakes own site proclaims...

...then I am not going to run screaming down the road in horror when he speaks.

People tend to jump every time Jakes is quoted; but never say a word about John MacArthur (whom I love) who is a staunch five-point Calvinist and consequently preaches that God chooses some to be saved and some to go to hell, regardless of what they themselves might want. Charles Stanley and RC Sproul preach the same. That form of Calvinism is also grievous error and maligns God. But do we bar them from being quoted here or having some of their selected works posted? No. We take the good and leave out the bad. Very, very few men believe perfectly in all areas of doctrine.

As I understand it, the purpose of posting this series by Jakes was to give some helpful information to men about wives (and vice versa). Since it has nothing to do with salvation or the foundations of our faith, I am not overly concerned it is here. In fact it may be useful to some. I know people who have had their marriages immensely helped by the understanding of each other that has come from these messages. (I even know a Christian couple for whom the secular book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" was used of God to provide them with some insight into the emotional differences between men and women. And frankly I would rather people got the message from TD Jakes who believes in salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross alone than from the secular John Gray who wrote the "Men are from Mars etc" book and who follows the teachings of the Yogi who founded Transcendental Meditation.)

So the point has been made in this thread. Jakes MAY be a preacher of Oneness heresies. He possibly may NOT. But this is about men and women understanding each other. I know there is a school of thought out there that says if you have wrong doctrine nothing you say can be trusted and everything you say can be used of Satan to mislead people. In that case, we are ALL in a lot of trouble. Outside of the writers of the New Testament, I know of no men whose doctrine is right on every point. (Even Peter, for that matter, strayed from true doctrine that God Himself had given him in a vision and had to be rebuked by Paul.) Let's take this series for what it is: some information about men and women and their differences.

And if in future someone posts one of Jakes' teachings on fundamental doctrinal points and he is preaching error on those points I will be the FIRST to jump on it and delete it.

God bless.

Matt

Thanks Matt!!

BTW Hannah: did you get a chance to listen to the sermon that was posted?

[Meg]

Matt, thank you for your wise and kind words. I have one thing to add; no one can be the Bible for others. It is our responsibility to read the Word for ourselves, to grasp and understand God's express will for our lives. Teaching such as the material I posted gets us back on track when things aren't working out the way we think they should and we don't know why. My husband is heavy into Star Trek. I was pretty sure it wasn't wrong, but I had a lot of trouble understanding how fiction fits into the Christian lifestyle, and my trust towards my husband was breaking down.

I think it is well to get our doctrine from Scripture, understanding that there are NO work-arounds to get us out of some point in God's will, but there are plenty of misunderstandings in day-to-day life. Doctrine is to me, an intellectual exercise of little value. Relationships, on the other hand are critical. It was my relationship with my first teacher that led me to Christ. It was my relationship with Jesus Christ that set me free. It is my relationship with my husband that will last into Eternity. It is my relationships with others upon which I will build my witnessing testimony.

Finally, if people can understand themselves and each other, the combination of deceptions and misunderstandings that tear people and families to pieces can be overcome with simple practical truth, then these will be healed and freed. That is what Jakes does well. If you need doctrine to hold you together, look elsewhere, but be careful about judging the Lord's servant. God may well see them very differently...

[Hannah]

Thanks Matt!!

BTW Hannah: did you get a chance to listen to the sermon that was posted?

Meg I said I respected your need to listen to people like Jakes.

I am hurt because both you and Robert seem to think I have to listen to someone that through my research and discernment decided he has questionable theology and therefore why would I listen to other material from that person. I would not expect you to listen to a teacher or preacher you did not agree with his theology or doctrine. That is an unreasonable request.

BTW I have listened again to this man's teaching in the past 24 hours and I have come to the same conclusion. Not these relationship tapes. I have listened from Potter House other teaching given by this man.

So it is OK for Matt and Robert and Meg to decide that you think TD Jakes fine. I would appreciate it if I got the same respect to be given to right to make up my OWN MIND on this man. You have all said I am able to make up my mind but I am feeling pressured by the three of you to say that TD Jakes is not questionable (there is more than the Trinity). If you like TD Jakes and enjoy him good for you. As I said to you Meg before I have the Bible and if you don't mind I will stick with my Bible.

I don't care if you listen Benny Hinn as I said before if you are in Christ and have agreed on the fact we are all Saved only through repentance and Christ then you are a Saved Believer. A brother and sister in Christ.

So let me spell it out to you again I am hurt and upset that I have been accused of being Petty. My fault for not being ready to put forward proof in the first place because I didn't want to fully derail this thread and bring it to the level it has become.

I apologise for having come in and said what I did because it has obviously upset MEG.

[king'sbloomingrose]

How good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity!

It is like precious oil poured on the head, running down on the beard, running down on Aaron’s beard, down on the collar of his robe.
It is as if the dew of Hermon were falling on Mount Zion.
For there the LORD bestows his blessing, even life forevermore.

Psalm 133