Spread the Gospel

[Mad Matt]

I recentely started attending a Baptist church that me and my wife both love. They share our core beliefs and we are not lost in the masses. The only problem I have is the lack of evangelism. At service they will pray that people will come to our church. Being that our church is on a lonely road in the country...that does not happen often. I often equate it to fishing and hoping the fish will jump into your boat. I have been a Christian since my early teens, but had a brief hiatus (20 years) of not attending a church. Even in my darkest hour Christ has been with me, even through some near-death experiences. I should not be alive, but by the grace of God I live. Am I wrong in my assumptions? The church has gone through some "pains" and is under a new pastor before we started attending. Being a "youngster" (39 yr/old), this concerns me. Am I within my bounderies to start a evangelical team? I realize this is the Great Commision, but I have never been a great evangelist.

[king'sbloomingrose]

Brother, you don't have to be a great evangelist in order to reach others for Christ. All one has to do is to have a willing heart. And when we witness we are only planting seeds, cause the Lord will do the work of convicting a person's heart. I think it would be a great idea to do something like that. I hand out tracts to people we see in public. You could print out a bunch of leaflets telling about the church or gospel tracts and go out and knock on doors and just invited people to come to church.

[arapahoepark]

Brother, you don't have to be a great evangelist in order to reach others for Christ. All one has to do is to have a willing heart. And when we witness we are only planting seeds, cause the Lord will do the work of convicting a person's heart. I think it would be a great idea to do something like that. I hand out tracts to people we see in public. You could print out a bunch of leaflets telling about the church or gospel tracts and go out and knock on doors and just invited people to come to church.

I agree!

I heard from my pastor last sunday even if you are shy just get some tracks and set them on a table or something

[mattfivefour]

To the world Jesus says, "Come." To the church, He says, "Go."

Let us never confuse the two.

We are to take His message and proclaim it everywhere, not sit in pews and hope that people will come in. We are to gather them. Perhaps, brother, the Lord has led you to this church to use your love for Him and your desire to take His gospel to others as a bit of salt to flavor that assembly and make it thirsty for His service, in deed and not just in word.

[anthony57]

matti:

To the world Jesus says, "Come."

You mean to His Sheep, or to those He has given ears to Hear, or those who are burdened and heavy ladened over their sins. Matt 11:

28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

And this is a word of command, of which is accompanied by His power to bring them to Him Jn 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

[mattfivefour]

True, Anthony, dear brother. But I suggest that the answer to your question is whosoever will may come.

" And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17)

Thank god that He "is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9b)

[anthony57]

matt:

True, Anthony, dear brother. But I suggest that the answer to your question is whosoever will may come.

What about those who have no will or desire to come, is Jesus speaking to them ?

Thank god that He "is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9b)

The us-ward is not everyone in the world without exception, the usward are those peter identifies himself with, the beloved of God vs 8a and those of like precious faith 2 pet 1:1, the elect according to the foreknowledge of God 1 pet 1:1-2..you need to study before you pull a verse out of its context and force it to conform to your opinion..

[mattfivefour]

Jesus is speaking to all. But not all will heed. The tragedy is that whosoever will come may do so. But many choose not to. They choose to shut their ears. So if you want to argue over words, then yes those who are not listening, who have no will nor desire to do so, will not come. But that does not mean that the free gift was not offered them. Indeed, Jesus is speaking to all even though not all want to listen. That is the basis for the coming judgment: "I called, you refused."

As to 2 Peter 3:9, respectfully the "us" is referring to us as human beings. It cannot be referring to us as Christians because Peter specifically says that God is patient because He is "not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." Christians have already come to repentance. And because of Christ they cannot perish for He is able to (and WILL) present us faultless before the Father. (Jude 1:24; Romans 14:4) Therefore to say that this verse applies to Christians in the present makes no sense. Now if we say that Paul was referring to them before they were saved and is thanking God that He was indeed long-suffering towards them for the reason that He wants none lost but all to come to repentance, then yes: this is speaking to Christians. But that very context proves that the long-suffering and the willingness for all to come to repentance applies to the unsaved, not the saved.

And just for the record, brother, I spend a lot of time in prayerful study and have done so for almost 40 years. I have never been known to pull a verse out of context to support a personal opinion. I have, on the other hand, been known to change many personal opinions to conform to the teachings of the Word of God. With the greatest respect, my use of 2 Peter 3:9 is not "out of context" but rather reveals the true context. The other meaning would make no sense in the context of a believer's security in Christ.

[king'sbloomingrose]

Luke 5:29-32

And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.

But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Anthony, I think this passage answers your question. If 2 Peter 3:9 is out of context, then why does Jesus say here in Luke, that He did not come to call the righteous to repentance? He just said that those who are whole or washed in His blood don't need to have it happen all over again. He came into the world to save sinners. And that's why He died and rose again - to save sinners. How did you or I get saved in the first place? We were sinners before a Holy God. Think of it this way, if 2 Peter 3:9 only refers to those that are already saved, then there wouldn't be anybody that that verse refers to because we just wouldn't be saved.

[Robert]

Anthony 57:

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality." (Romans 12:10-13, NASB)

Exegesis is not conforming scripture to our beliefs, but conforming our beliefs to what we derive from scripture. In the preceding passage of scripture, we are instructed on how to treat our brethren. Sadly, this is not how you treated Mattfivefour; your comment to him presupposed that he did not study nor pray, let alone have any scriptural knowledge whatsoever.

The truth of the matter is: Mattfivefour, even before becoming a moderator at RF, has demonstrated a knowledge of scripture that was not won by human determination, but given by the Lord through the Holy Spirit. Matt's servant's heart, humility, and willingness to help those in need is apparent to all of us who love him deeply and consider him both a mentor and a brother in Christ. Such comments as the ones you have made about him are extremely hurtful, and do not reflect the Lord in any way whatsoever.

if you feel Mattfivefour has wronged you or erred in any way against you, scripture gives us the means of redress:

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself." (Galatians 6:1-3, NASB, emphasis mine)


Did you demonstrate any of this to Mattfivefour?


Now, as to the verse in question:

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9, NASB, emphasis mine)

In conducting exegesis: when the rest of surrounding scripture gives no clue, we refer to what God has already said concerning the matter:


"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:15-18, NASB, emphasis mine)

Here, it is apparent how God feels: He is not willing that ANY should perish. Were it only a select few as was posted, it would completely contradict what God has already clearly said in scripture. The sentiment of only a select few appears to me as Calvinism, something I have never bought into nor could find any sort of scriptural basis for.

The Calvinist argument is that God has fore-chosen those he would save, regardless of freewill, and disregarded those He would not save under those same auspices. The rationale is that since God could see in advance who would be saved, that it translates into Him deliberately using that knowledge to pick and choose his elect; God exists outside of time, and as a result, can see everything that has happened or will happen:

"But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day." (2 Peter 3:8, NASB)

Calvinists use Romans 8:29 to bolster their argument, claiming that because God had foreknowledge as mentioned in scripture, that the following statement meant that he chose to save them regardless of free will:

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." (Romans 8:29-30, NASB)

The problem is: the verse is not being read correctly; "FOR those he foreknew, he ALSO predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son." In other words: those that he knew would ACCEPT SALVATION he chose to become conformed to Christ's image, NOT "He chose ahead of time who would be conformed to Christ's image!!! Calvinists place the wrong emphasis on the wrong parts of scripture.

God is a sovereign God, and because he is sovereign, he allows free will in man. Were He to choose who would be saved would be the same thing as treating man as a means to an end, and would mean that God is far less than sovereign and Almighty.

A sovereign God is not thwarted or even threatened by free will.

So, humbly brother, I submit that you may wish to reconsider your thoughts on the matter. And I urge you to apologize to Mattfivefour.


YBIC,

-Robert

[Juliebeth]

I am gearing up for a nice summer distributing Bible tracts again! I work on my own but it would be awesome to have a team!

[anthony57]

matt:

Jesus is speaking to all.

No He is not. He specifically addressed a certain group, we should pay attention to His words, notice Matt 11:

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Now were all in labour and heavy laden ? Thats who is speaking to.

[king'sbloomingrose]

matt:



No He is not. He specifically addressed a certain group, we should pay attention to His words, notice Matt 11:

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Now were all in labour and heavy laden ? Thats who is speaking to.

Many people today labor and are heavy laden with sins load. They seek rest from it everywhere but God. Jesus calls them to come to Him because only He can give them rest. Did you read any of the earlier posts that were addressed to you?

[Meg]

Many people today labor and are heavy laden with sins load. They seek rest from it everywhere but God. Jesus calls them to come to Him because only He can give them rest. Did you read any of the earlier posts that were addressed to you?

Amen KBR!!!

[anthony57]

king:

Many people today labor and are heavy laden with sins load.

And many are not. So do you agree that Jesus was calling a specific group of people in the verse and not all without exception ?

[jesuschangesall]

JESUS is speaking to those who are heavy laden by RELIGION....

[mattfivefour]

My advice is to take all scripture together on the subject, not just a verse here or there. In regard to this topic, the totality of scripture indicates that salvation is offered to ALL on the face of the earth. However, according to Jesus in Matthew 7:13-14, comparatively few accept it.

[king'sbloomingrose]

Amen, Matt!

[WazOz]

Forgive my inept knowledge of scriptures, but I have to agree totally with what Robert said about Mattifivefour, also again apolpgies for lacking wisdom and knowledge, it also says many are called and few are chosen, semantics to say Christ was speaking to an elect group, Christ wants to see every single person saved, on the other hand it is up to God who does get saved, we know this: They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; [and] their hearts, that they cannot understand.
My 2c worth

[Hannah]

Forgive my inept knowledge of scriptures, but I have to agree totally with what Robert said about Mattifivefour, also again apolpgies for lacking wisdom and knowledge, it also says many are called and few are chosen, semantics to say Christ was speaking to an elect group, Christ wants to see every single person saved, on the other hand it is up to God who does get saved, we know this: They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; [and] their hearts, that they cannot understand.
My 2c worth

Absolutely spot on WazOz the gospel of salvation is offered to all mankind and Jesus died for ALL sinners not just some.

1PE 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

1JN 4:13 We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

1TI 4:9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

The Bible teaches us that God sent Jesus to be the Saviour of ALL mankind not just some. So salvation is on offer to all who will Believe and YES we know not every one will Believe only Some.

JN 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.