Evangelizing to atheists

[Meg]

The question each of us should daily ask ourselves is "can they say that about me?" And if your honest answer is "yes" then we should be daily begging God to change us to the point where people can see the Christ we proclaim.

THAT is what being a witness is, first and foremost. THAT is the purpose of sanctification. Contrary to popular belief, we are not being sanctified to make us fit for Heaven. We are fit for Heaven the second we receive Christ since it is He alone who made us fit by His perfect sacrifice. We are being sanctified so that our lives give proof to our message. We have to be daily WILLING to lay down what we perceive to be our right to our own lives for the privilege of living in obedient service to the One who has bought us and is thus our Master.

Matt, you are just a treasure. The part of your post I bolded just answered one of the most crushing questions I have been trying to understand, trying to argue, trying to defend and to live out in my own life for years.

People, take Matt's words to heart, deep in your heart, then shout them from the rooftops. Matt is right, all too right. If we are going to reach anybody, our lives MUST match our testimony...

[elliestar11]

Thanks so much for the replies, you guys!

So! Some... interesting things happened at school today. The science teacher announced that he had just ordered the dead animals and that we should be getting them sometime next week. At this, Mary immediately perked up and asked what animal it was. We're going to be dissecting rabbits. Frogs are one thing, but rabbits are cuddly and cute. I can't stand the idea of cutting one open! I even had a pet rabbit once, named Bernie, when I was very little, but I don't remember much of it. I was trying to remember everything I could about Bernie, when Mary said in that lilting, quiet voice of hers, "Ah, rabbits. I had a pet rabbit once. When it died, I got to cut it open and look at its guts. Good times."
The PETA boy turned around and said with shock, "You... I can't believe you would do that! Animals deserve our respect! You should have given it a proper burial and felt grief, like a normal human would, instead of using it for your own twisted amusement!"
She dismissed him with a wave of her hand, but I noticed the barest hint of a smirk at the boy's borderline hysterics. "It's not like I killed the rabbit. It was dead of natural causes. And once it's dead, it's dead. I think it died of old age. Yes, that's what it was. Old age." I noticed that her voice got very solemn at this point, and she looked away.
The PETA boy narrowed his eyes suspiciously. "Yeah. Old age. Right." and turned back to his desk.

At the end of class, we had a lot of extra time to just hang out and chat with classmates. I asked Mary, "Did you really enjoy dissecting the rabbit?"
She gave me a look that said That's the dumbest question I've ever heard. "Sure, I did," she began. "It was a pet that I had cared for for many years. I think living things are fascinating. I look at them and I can't help but wonder how they work inside. When it was finally dead, I got my chance. Curiosity got the better of me, I guess, and..." Her sentence trailed off as she grinned from ear to ear.
"And your parents are okay with this?" I asked. "I mean, most parents wouldn't let their kids touch dead animals, let alone cut them open."
"Oh, of course. My dad is a mortician. He works with dead bodies on a regular basis. My mom... well, my mom doesn't live with us, but my dad knows all about my interests. If I don't carry on the family business, he says, I should be a veterinarian, because I like animals."

So, apparently Mary likes animals, but also likes cutting them open. That's an unusual hobby for a teenager. I'm not saying that Mary's the next Dahmer, but something about her seems unhealthy. Sick. Saturated with death. Of course I think the media plays a role, but then again, there could be other influences. I am ing for her, as always.

[arapahoepark]

She seems sick? How so?

I don't mean to say this you probably know her better than I, but It was interesting, perhaps not joyous, to dissect sharks and pigs though.

I haven't been following all that much...is she the atheist?

[Robert]

I noted from what you said Ellie that "Mary" said her mom doesn't live with her and her dad; that speaks quite a bit in my mind.

[ShilohRose]

I can understand Mary's curiosity about what makes a rabbit tick, but I don't really understand how she could dissect her own rabbit even if it had died of old age. I agree that there is something sick about that. My daughter loves animals and loves learning about them; however, I can't imagine her being able to dissect her dog after it died.

I have to wonder, though, how much of what she says is for affect and how much of it she really means.

[elliestar11]

She seems sick? How so?

I don't mean to say this you probably know her better than I, but It was interesting, perhaps not joyous, to dissect sharks and pigs though.

I haven't been following all that much...is she the atheist?

Yes, Mary is the atheist. That's not her real name, I gave her a pseudonym.

I have another friend who's an atheist, but he moved to another state a long time ago and we just keep in touch through email now. He's pretty reasonable though, and we tend to stay away from religious and political topics. And he also would never cut up his own pets. Or be a nihilist.

Maybe my fear of her is just a projection of my own fear, but sometimes, even though she acts so happy and nonchalant to people around her, it almost seems like she's putting on an act, like she's actually hollow inside, and there is nothing supporting her skin underneath. And she's scarily thin, too. Maybe she has symptoms of an eating disorder, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. (Besides, with how she asks for everyone's leftovers at the lunch table even after she's cleaned her own plate, I think she eats just fine.) And I know that kids find their first dissection in high school intriguing, but she seems absolutely obsessed with the process of cutting open animals. Honestly, when she talked about her pet rabbit, she looked a little manic, like she was about to lose all control. But the REALLY weird thing is that after her more creepy moments, she acts like it never happened and is back to her polite, charming, calm self a moment later. Hard to believe it's the same girl who would cut up her own pet...

[elliestar11]

I noted from what you said Ellie that "Mary" said her mom doesn't live with her and her dad; that speaks quite a bit in my mind.

What do you mean, Robert? I know that there are a lot of unfortunate marriage situations and divorces in this day and age, and that it can have a negative effect on children.

[elliestar11]

I can understand Mary's curiosity about what makes a rabbit tick, but I don't really understand how she could dissect her own rabbit even if it had died of old age. I agree that there is something sick about that. My daughter loves animals and loves learning about them; however, I can't imagine her being able to dissect her dog after it died.

I have to wonder, though, how much of what she says is for affect and how much of it she really means.

Do you think she's just messing with everyone's minds to watch their reactions?

[arapahoepark]

Yes, Mary is the atheist. That's not her real name, I gave her a pseudonym.

I have another friend who's an atheist, but he moved to another state a long time ago and we just keep in touch through email now. He's pretty reasonable though, and we tend to stay away from religious and political topics. And he also would never cut up his own pets. Or be a nihilist.

Maybe my fear of her is just a projection of my own fear, but sometimes, even though she acts so happy and nonchalant to people around her, it almost seems like she's putting on an act, like she's actually hollow inside, and there is nothing supporting her skin underneath. And she's scarily thin, too. Maybe she has symptoms of an eating disorder, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. (Besides, with how she asks for everyone's leftovers at the lunch table even after she's cleaned her own plate, I think she eats just fine.) And I know that kids find their first dissection in high school intriguing, but she seems absolutely obsessed with the process of cutting open animals. Honestly, when she talked about her pet rabbit, she looked a little manic, like she was about to lose all control. But the REALLY weird thing is that after her more creepy moments, she acts like it never happened and is back to her polite, charming, calm self a moment later. Hard to believe it's the same girl who would cut up her own pet...

Well I will be praying for her and for you too ellie!

[ShilohRose]

Do you think she's just messing with everyone's minds to watch their reactions?

I don't know that she is playing mind games, but she could be doing that for the attention, even if it is negative attention.

Whether she is playiing mind games or not, she needs Jesus. I'll be praying for her to come to know Him, and for you to be a witness to her, and that the Lord will give you discernment about what is going on with her and wisdom to know what to say and do.

[Meg]

Thanks so much for the replies, you guys!

So! Some... interesting things happened at school today. The science teacher announced that he had just ordered the dead animals and that we should be getting them sometime next week. At this, Mary immediately perked up and asked what animal it was. We're going to be dissecting rabbits. Frogs are one thing, but rabbits are cuddly and cute. I can't stand the idea of cutting one open! I even had a pet rabbit once, named Bernie, when I was very little, but I don't remember much of it. I was trying to remember everything I could about Bernie, when Mary said in that lilting, quiet voice of hers, "Ah, rabbits. I had a pet rabbit once. When it died, I got to cut it open and look at its guts. Good times."
The PETA boy turned around and said with shock, "You... I can't believe you would do that! Animals deserve our respect! You should have given it a proper burial and felt grief, like a normal human would, instead of using it for your own twisted amusement!"
She dismissed him with a wave of her hand, but I noticed the barest hint of a smirk at the boy's borderline hysterics. "It's not like I killed the rabbit. It was dead of natural causes. And once it's dead, it's dead. I think it died of old age. Yes, that's what it was. Old age." I noticed that her voice got very solemn at this point, and she looked away.
The PETA boy narrowed his eyes suspiciously. "Yeah. Old age. Right." and turned back to his desk.

At the end of class, we had a lot of extra time to just hang out and chat with classmates. I asked Mary, "Did you really enjoy dissecting the rabbit?"
She gave me a look that said That's the dumbest question I've ever heard. "Sure, I did," she began. "It was a pet that I had cared for for many years. I think living things are fascinating. I look at them and I can't help but wonder how they work inside. When it was finally dead, I got my chance. Curiosity got the better of me, I guess, and..." Her sentence trailed off as she grinned from ear to ear.
"And your parents are okay with this?" I asked. "I mean, most parents wouldn't let their kids touch dead animals, let alone cut them open."
"Oh, of course. My dad is a mortician. He works with dead bodies on a regular basis. My mom... well, my mom doesn't live with us, but my dad knows all about my interests. If I don't carry on the family business, he says, I should be a veterinarian, because I like animals."

So, apparently Mary likes animals, but also likes cutting them open. That's an unusual hobby for a teenager. I'm not saying that Mary's the next Dahmer, but something about her seems unhealthy. Sick. Saturated with death. Of course I think the media plays a role, but then again, there could be other influences. I am ing for her, as always.

Ellie, what you're describing is some very disturbing behavior. We are in a culture that is glorifying evil, and evidently your friend is buying into it. I trust you have more sense than to go to her house...

Some of what you're describing is behavior for shock value, that much is clear, but there is a genuinely psychotic aspect emerging. Pray for her, sure, but also be careful around her. Pray to the Lord for insight and guidance too. It is deeply tragic what is becoming of the young people these days. I wish that was as trite as it might sound, but its not. I have a sister who is a veterinarian, but I promise, she never "practiced" on any of our pets when we were kids! Your friend would do well to learn the difference between healthy ways to attract attention and making people think she's got serious mental problems. If she doesn't cool it, she's going to have a very bad reputation which will follow her long into adulthood, and do her much personal harm...

[king'sbloomingrose]

I just saw this thread...I'll be praying for her.

[elliestar11]

Well, yesterday we dissected the rabbits. I'm sorry I didn't update yesterday, but my computer was down. (It's been having problems lately. I'll have to get it fixed.)

Everyone was at least a little nervous about the dissection. I know I was standing there looking dumb for at least a minute, not sure what to do, until Mary offered her help.

"You don't want to do this, do you?" she asked. She seemed a little calmer than usual.
"Not really," I said.
"Here, give me the blade. I'll cut it open, you just have to draw it."

After the initial incisions were done, drawing it was a breeze (although the rabbits I draw are alive and not flayed on a classroom desk). So we talked until the end of class.

"Why do you like dissecting things?" I asked.
She pondered for a moment. "I like to see how things work. It's such a beautiful and intricate organism. The outside looks like such a neat little package, but it's even more fascinating to see how they're put together."
I felt that this would be a good time to share God's word with her. "You know, I think it's interesting that you comprehend all of the Creator's design. You said it yourself - it looks like it was 'put together', right? To me, that shows how knowledge of a Creator has been written onto all our hearts - even yours, Mary."
Her face seemed to drain of blood as she comprehended her little slip of the tongue. At first it looked like she was going to snap, but then she just stared to the side and said quietly, "There's no design in nature. Evolution isn't guided. Any appearance of design is just a projection of our minds..."
I felt I had to ask one more question. "I know you don't believe in any meaning to life, but what do you seek? Above all else, what do you want?"
"Knowledge," she replied without hesitation. "Truth, observations, scientific facts about the world around us."
"There's a lot of knowledge in the Bible, you know," I suggested. "It's God's word! Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord - and with all the eyewitness testimony and the story of the New Testament, he's got to be Lord!"
"I don't need that book of fairy tales," she sneered. "I'll find knowledge my own way. A more scientific, empirical, rational way. I have to know more. I need to know more. It's the driving force for much of what I do. Other people might see me as obsessive, but for me, it's my passion."

I noticed that she is actually very perceptive of the Creator's Design. Maybe that is the key to reaching her. Thank you to everyone on here, and a big thank you to JESUS for showing me the way!

[arapahoepark]

Well, yesterday we dissected the rabbits. I'm sorry I didn't update yesterday, but my computer was down. (It's been having problems lately. I'll have to get it fixed.)

Everyone was at least a little nervous about the dissection. I know I was standing there looking dumb for at least a minute, not sure what to do, until Mary offered her help.

"You don't want to do this, do you?" she asked. She seemed a little calmer than usual.
"Not really," I said.
"Here, give me the blade. I'll cut it open, you just have to draw it."

After the initial incisions were done, drawing it was a breeze (although the rabbits I draw are alive and not flayed on a classroom desk). So we talked until the end of class.

"Why do you like dissecting things?" I asked.
She pondered for a moment. "I like to see how things work. It's such a beautiful and intricate organism. The outside looks like such a neat little package, but it's even more fascinating to see how they're put together."
I felt that this would be a good time to share God's word with her. "You know, I think it's interesting that you comprehend all of the Creator's design. You said it yourself - it looks like it was 'put together', right? To me, that shows how knowledge of a Creator has been written onto all our hearts - even yours, Mary."
Her face seemed to drain of blood as she comprehended her little slip of the tongue. At first it looked like she was going to snap, but then she just stared to the side and said quietly, "There's no design in nature. Evolution isn't guided. Any appearance of design is just a projection of our minds..."
I felt I had to ask one more question. "I know you don't believe in any meaning to life, but what do you seek? Above all else, what do you want?"
"Knowledge," she replied without hesitation. "Truth, observations, scientific facts about the world around us."
"There's a lot of knowledge in the Bible, you know," I suggested. "It's God's word! Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord - and with all the eyewitness testimony and the story of the New Testament, he's got to be Lord!"
"I don't need that book of fairy tales," she sneered. "I'll find knowledge my own way. A more scientific, empirical, rational way. I have to know more. I need to know more. It's the driving force for much of what I do. Other people might see me as obsessive, but for me, it's my passion."

I noticed that she is actually very perceptive of the Creator's Design. Maybe that is the key to reaching her. Thank you to everyone on here, and a big thank you to JESUS for showing me the way!

You should be writing books, it's rather interesting how you write these little stories (They are fact, not doubting that lol)

Anyway, yes that sounds good. Keep praying of course ellie. But remember presuppositions drive everything....hers is that evolution made all this stuff and therefore has no design per se....our is that there is design that came about by God....
So yeah...but i'll keep praying for ya! I hope your witnessing does wonders

[elliestar11]

You should be writing books, it's rather interesting how you write these little stories (They are fact, not doubting that lol)

Anyway, yes that sounds good. Keep praying of course ellie. But remember presuppositions drive everything....hers is that evolution made all this stuff and therefore has no design per se....our is that there is design that came about by God....
So yeah...but i'll keep praying for ya! I hope your witnessing does wonders

Thank you for the kind words! I like to write in my spare time. One day I hope to have books published.

[arapahoepark]

Thank you for the kind words!

No prob.

I like to write in my spare time. One day I hope to have books published.

Awesome and I hope so!

[Meg]

Ellie, instead of trying to tell Mary whats inside those mysterious covers of the Bible, share the real thing with her. I had a dear friend trying to witness to me when I was in my 20's, but he never actually showed me what's in the Word. I advise avoid the KJV too, use the NASB, the most reliable translation we have. I think she's got the Gospel part straight, so maybe run 1 John Chapter 1 past her and see what she makes of it. Better yet Chapters 1 and 2, they're pretty profound. Thanks for the update.

Beyond that, she's obviously feeling threatened by Christianity in some way. See if you can find out why...

[elliestar11]

Ellie, instead of trying to tell Mary whats inside those mysterious covers of the Bible, share the real thing with her. I had a dear friend trying to witness to me when I was in my 20's, but he never actually showed me what's in the Word. I advise avoid the KJV too, use the NASB, the most reliable translation we have. I think she's got the Gospel part straight, so maybe run 1 John Chapter 1 past her and see what she makes of it. Better yet Chapters 1 and 2, they're pretty profound. Thanks for the update.

Beyond that, she's obviously feeling threatened by Christianity in some way. See if you can find out why...

Another NASB fan? Me too! I keep hearing so much about the KJV, it's nice to hear a different opinion for a change.

I better start studying extra-hard. John is obviously a great choice. But she's also an evolutionist, so maybe I should quote some stuff from Genesis as well.

On the other hand, if she already knows the Gospel, will she really respond just because I'm saying some quotes to her (no matter how important those quotes are)? But then again, the Bible can perform wonders.
ing as usual...

[Meg]

Another NASB fan? Me too! I keep hearing so much about the KJV, it's nice to hear a different opinion for a change.

I better start studying extra-hard. John is obviously a great choice. But she's also an evolutionist, so maybe I should quote some stuff from Genesis as well.

On the other hand, if she already knows the Gospel, will she really respond just because I'm saying some quotes to her (no matter how important those quotes are)? But then again, the Bible can perform wonders.
ing as usual...

Ellie, please allow me to demonstrate why I chose 1 John. If Mary thinks like I suspect she thinks, these verses will get her curious. Its certainly worth a try. However, if you try Genesis on her, you will need a confident grasp of the Old Earth theological viewpoint, as anyone who has taken an interest in scientific theory and how things work will not accept the New Earth view. That being said, here is John's statement, one of the loveliest in Scripture:

1 John 1:1-4

1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us— 3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

Now the word they have translated as "fellowship", means more like "what is shared in common", according to Strongs, so, IMO, what is implied here is that through Jesus Christ, we may enter a relationship of participation with God.
2842. ???????? (koinónia) -- fellowship

1 John 1:5-7

5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

This verse can be offered to help her understand why some who call themselves Christians don't exactly act the part...

1 John 1:8-11

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:9-11 also helps clarify how to tell "the saints from the aint's" to quote one of my favorite Pastors:

9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Then 1 John 2:12-14 is just plain lovely and I truly think will resonate in Mary's heart, raising her curiosity about John at least:

12 I am writing to you, little children,
because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.
I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers,
because you know Him who has been from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
and you have overcome the evil one.

I hope this helps your friend Mary, Ellie. God bless you deeply sister, you are such an inspiration the way you serve our Lord.

[Juliebeth]

I spent 3 months trying to turn atheists around on Facebok. I became obsessed with debating and worked very hard to answer all there questions correctly. I eventually learned that they would just keep asking the questions over and over to no avail. I even had a team set up of 5 people and we would work together debating with them. They all just act like it's a game. I gave up and washed my hands of them. That is just on FB though. In real life I am sure that witnessing would go much better. I got my father who is a hardcore atheists to read a Bible I gave him after 7 years of nagging. Not sure if my experiences added any insight :)