Witnessing to Muslims

[koti]

While looking thru these boards I see a lot of anger and hatred towards muslims... I understand why but I would like to say that maybe we should concentrate more on bringing them to Christ then hating them.

If you approach a muslim with the hate that I have seen on here, you are only going to turn them away from christianity. They are taught from birth (or beginning of conversion) that christians are liars, idol worshippers, made a human into a God.

They are not given any understanding of what christians really believe. As we believe muslims only want us dead... they believe we only want them dead.

To reach a muslim and show them Christ you have to be able to make them doubt their beliefs. To doubt Muhammad and their Quran. Not with the typical stuff like how can islam be a loving religion when it says to kill all christians (which by the way... that is not what the Quran actually teaches. Sadly, just as some 'christians' have twisted the bible... so have many 'muslims'). But show where Muhammad was wrong...

They believe the Quran was sent from Allah thru angel Gabriel to Muhammad. Now if the Quran came from God who is all knowing and never ever wrong.. then why is the trinity referred to in the Quran as consisting of God, Jesus, and Mary... not the Holy Spirit.

The christianity trinity has never ever included Mary... so if it came from God to the Quran... How was such a basic christian belief written in there wrong.

Men... never ever approach a female muslim.. if at all possible... have a sister appoach a female. A woman is very likely to ignore a male and may even seem rude to him (culture is why).

Don't attack their religion to them... slowly plant the seed of doubt their own beliefs by asking them innocent questions of their own faith and it's inconsistencies... When you can get them to really start questioning their faith.. then start explaining what christians really believe because they often don't really know.

I really do understand the anger towards muslims... but I feel thats instead of being hatefilled towards them we need to work harder on bringing them to Christ...

Yes even the hardcore, niqabi (face veil) wearing, 5 times a day at the mosque muslims can be converted to christianity.. I know because I was one for 10 years!

[Kist]

First off, Praise the Lord for your salvation.

You raise one good point, which is that we shouldn't hate Muslims, however they uphold a very dangerous doctrine, towards everyone that is not a Muslim. We should hate that doctrine as it is clearly something coming from Satan. We should indeed try to refrain from hate, but it is hard to embrace someone that is trying to destroy us, eachother, and most importantly the Jews(which as you know is God's chosen people).

You do however make some mistakes. You say Muhammed was called according to the Qu'ran by Gabriel that is just one of their theories. There are actually 4 of them

1. Suras 53 and 81 - God, or Allah as he is called in Arabic, personally appeared to Muhammad.
2. Suras 16 and 26 - The call was from the Holy Spirit.
3. Sura 15 - Angels issued the call.
4. Sura 2 - Gabriel was the one who appeared to him.

There are more contradictions likewhat it says about creation. In one place it asserts that Allah created everything in "the twinkling of an eye" (Sura 54:49-50). Elsewhere it says that the time period of the creation was two days (Sura 41:9, 12); four days (Sura 41:10); six days (Suras 7:54, 10:4, and 32:4); in "a day equaling 1,000 years" (Sura 32:5); and also in "50,000 years" (Sura 70:4). That's a total of six different time periods

That in itself should be enough to turn any sound person away from that false religion. Though I could very well understand if you are taught that for years you start believing it.

You say the Qu'ran doesn't speak of killing al christians, but it does say the following
- Sura 5:51 commands Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as friends.
- Sura 9:29 commands Muslims to fight against Jews and Christians until they either submit to Allah or else agree to pay a special tax.
- Sura 2:65-66 and Sura 5:60 contain references to Jews as "apes and swine to be despised and rejected."
Sura 5:33 - "[For those who do not submit to Allah(that is thus including Christians)] their punishment is... execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land."

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and [some of] you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not" (Sura 2:216).

"Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war" (Sura 9:5).

"Fight in the way of Allah... and slay them [the unbelievers] wherever you find them and drive them out... and fight them until... religion is for Allah" (Sura 2:190-193).

Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith as saying, "The sword is the key of heaven and hell. A drop of blood in the cause of Allah - a night spent in arms [war] - is of more avail than two months of fasting and prayer. Whosoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment, his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim."

All of this doesn't sound very peacefull to me. In fact it sounds to me as very hatefull. But you are right when you say we shouldn't hate the Muslims, the bible doesn't teach us love all people but the Muslims you can hate. In fact Jesus tells us over and over again to love all. We should remember the doctrine of these poor people comes from Satan, and as such they are not our enemy, but he is. That however does not mean we should condone everything they do, nor should we allow them to transfer their satanic beliefs to our societies.

The fact that Mary is seen as part of the trinity in Islam is if I remember correctly due to the fact that Muhammed was married to a Catholic woman, who apparently had, like her fellow catholics, an idol in Mary. As Muhammed was illiterate, he also needed other people to write the Qu'ran, he never really got things right on Christianity, and that is where the mistakes on Mary and other such things apparently come from.

Finally you make a good point, everyone can be converted and saved, there is no limit to the powers of our Lord. He saves, he converts, we can only be his tools. In fact, there are alot of testimonies of now former muslims, having had dreams of Jesus who was completely different than Isa from the Qu'ran, which lead to them repenting. We should pray for the conversion, and repentance of Muslims, and indeed should try to reach them.

Note: I took most of this from the main site The Truth About Islam

[readytogo]

While looking thru these boards I see a lot of anger and hatred towards muslims... I understand why but I would like to say that maybe we should concentrate more on bringing them to Christ then hating them.

If you approach a muslim with the hate that I have seen on here, you are only going to turn them away from christianity. They are taught from birth (or beginning of conversion) that christians are liars, idol worshippers, made a human into a God.

They are not given any understanding of what christians really believe. As we believe muslims only want us dead... they believe we only want them dead.

To reach a muslim and show them Christ you have to be able to make them doubt their beliefs. To doubt Muhammad and their Quran. Not with the typical stuff like how can islam be a loving religion when it says to kill all christians (which by the way... that is not what the Quran actually teaches. Sadly, just as some 'christians' have twisted the bible... so have many 'muslims'). But show where Muhammad was wrong...

They believe the Quran was sent from Allah thru angel Gabriel to Muhammad. Now if the Quran came from God who is all knowing and never ever wrong.. then why is the trinity referred to in the Quran as consisting of God, Jesus, and Mary... not the Holy Spirit.

The christianity trinity has never ever included Mary... so if it came from God to the Quran... How was such a basic christian belief written in there wrong.

Men... never ever approach a female muslim.. if at all possible... have a sister appoach a female. A woman is very likely to ignore a male and may even seem rude to him (culture is why).

Don't attack their religion to them... slowly plant the seed of doubt their own beliefs by asking them innocent questions of their own faith and it's inconsistencies... When you can get them to really start questioning their faith.. then start explaining what christians really believe because they often don't really know.

I really do understand the anger towards muslims... but I feel thats instead of being hatefilled towards them we need to work harder on bringing them to Christ...

Yes even the hardcore, niqabi (face veil) wearing, 5 times a day at the mosque muslims can be converted to christianity.. I know because I was one for 10 years!

You make some very good points, koti! I have had many Muslim friends over the years. Mostly Syrians, Turks, and Iranians, though a few of other countries. Attacking someone for what they believe is not the way to "win friends and influence people" (anyone, not just Muslims.) However, gently questioning them as to why they believe what they believe is a better tactic. Each human being has the law written upon their hearts. They KNOW the difference between right and wrong because it was the one true God gave it to every human being regardless of where they live.

No matter what their background, most people don't respond to "attacks" from people telling them that they are wrong. It's better if they can come to see that same thing from within themselves.

Also, just as we (Westerners) tend to see all Muslims painted with the same brush, Muslims see us in the same way. They need to know that all of the stereotypes about Christians aren't true before they will feel "safe" and accept what you say.

[koti]

Sunni islam teaches that the Quran was brought to Muhammad by the Angel Gaberial from Allah... There is also a story where Muhammad went to the heavens and talked with Allah. Two different things.

Gaberial appeared to Muhammad according to islam on many occasions... even one time in front of Muhammad's friends.

To say don't take christians as friends does not mean kill them.. .it is just as we as christians are told not to take say a satanist as a friend.. that doesn't mean kill the satanist.. it means don't go party with them... witness to them.

There are verses taken out of context that say kill the christians but what is also said is that you are not to kill those that have a treaty with muslims. Technically there is a treaty between christians, jews, and muslims.

The problem comes in that even muslims do not teach other muslims what the Quran really says.

But in reality... that all means nothing because in the end their doctrine is WRONG! Whatever it is they believe.

Concentrating on their hate for us does not solve the issue of we need to be witnessing to them. Plain and simple.

Now you can disagree with many of the things I have said about islam but do understand that quite often the info you find online contain a mixture of the beliefs from the different sects... sunni, shia, sufi. Even with in the sunni sect on its own there are also 4 different schools of thought with different teachings... I was what many westerners call a wahabi.. one of the strictest (actually falls into the hanbali school of thought). Even within the sect of sunni islam... there are many many many differences in the beliefs of the 4 Madh'habs.

My suggestion when trying to convert a muslim is to find out what sect they belong to and what school of thought they were taught so that you can research what that groups beliefs are... and learn the difference between islam and their culture...

Muhammad was not married to a catholic. The woman he married did come from a family with christians in it (her uncle spoke with Muhammad to give advice) but never any mention of him being Catholic. Besides (going way back to my days as a catholic 20 years ago... so could be wrong) Catholics don't consider Mary as part of the Trinity do they? I know they worship her... but as part of trinity? Besides even if he was married to a catholic... He claims the Quran came from God... how could God be wrong... it is just an argument to show muslims where their belief is wrong.



Now I am not trying to sound like I am saying lets hold their hands and blah blah blah or like I am debating lol... but this is something close to my heart.

I do have a couple of sites with testimonies from former muslims that show what helped them to see the truth.. pm me if you want the links.

I can also provide a link to a site that comes straight from the islamic sunni scholars as to what they believe and why... but am kind of leary of giving that one out only because I would not want to cause any confusion... But I would be more then willing to post a copy of what they said to any question that anyone might wonder about.

[Robert]

While looking thru these boards I see a lot of anger and hatred towards muslims... I understand why but I would like to say that maybe we should concentrate more on bringing them to Christ then hating them.

You are correct, koti, and I have been guilty of making such comments on this board.

Sometimes it takes a brother or sister in Christ to point out when we have sinned against another or have done something that the Lord does not approve of. I apologize for my comments sister, and ask your forgiveness. We do need to show how Christ is working in our lives, and not ensconcing ourselves in self-righteousness.

[mattfivefour]

PM me the links, koti, and if they look good, I will post them here.

BTW, your statements in both of your posts here are, imo, right on target. Thank you. I look forward to more of your input. I am particularly interested in the fact you wore niqab. Was this by personal choice? Or by cultural edict?

[Kist]

Indeed the Catholics do not see Mary as part of the trinity, but if you have lesser understanding of Christian scripture, and you see how much Mary is worshipped(there is actually a really weird doctrine around her, something about her being the queen of heaven), and you don't really understand the trinity such a thing can lead to confusion.

You absolutely raise good points, I agree that we shouldn't focus on the potential hate coming from them, but I do believe that in understanding what drives them we need to understand what their ideology is about. If you want to discuss religious things with them, then I think it is imminent that we know what they believe. Indeed what they believe is wrong, it is so wrong that it is sad that 2billion people follow that false religion.

I can really understand why it is so close to your heart to convert people trapped in Islam, and I think it's a great testimony of how the Lord works. I honestly do, I think most people have atleast that bonding with the group they belonged to before being saved. That is also why I don't believe it to be a coincidence that we are seeing so many Muslims having dreams in which Jesus shows himself, He is planning something, apparently even some very influential religious leaders have had such dreams.

But yeah I agree we should try to reach them, which could be very hard, but in some ways might be more fruitful than trying to reach an outspoken atheist. Afterall a Muslim does have the desire to know God, and knows there is a God, he just isn't serving Him, whilest an atheist in most cases does not want to admit to the existence of God(even scientists say, if you look at evidence without prejudice, there can only be one conclusion, but still they remain atheist). The hard part will be, atleast as I can see from the outside, convince them that they are wrong.

I was just thinking, we all know of the verse speaking of the fact that muslims should Kill anyone that converts, perhaps Satan had that put in to try to prevent his hold on people slipping.

If we look at any seemingly hatred on this board, I think it probably comes from a passion for the fate of Israel, most of such posts seem to come on such topics.

[koti]

BTW, your statements in both of your posts here are, imo, right on target. Thank you. I look forward to more of your input. I am particularly interested in the fact you wore niqab. Was this by personal choice? Or by cultural edict?

It was personal choice... I am american born and raised... I was raised 'christian'... you know the kind where the kids are sent to church every sunday and that is about all...

Will pm the links...the first two will be the former muslim's testimonies and the 3rd one will be the one where there are the sunni rulings..

Robert
Re: Witnessing to Muslims


Sometimes it takes a brother or sister in Christ to point out when we have sinned against another or have done something that the Lord does not approve of. I apologize for my comments sister, and ask your forgiveness. We do need to show how Christ is working in our lives, and not ensconcing ourselves in self-righteousness.

Ah no need to apologize to me... I understand where the feelings come from... but thank you!

Kist
Re: Witnessing to Muslims


I was just thinking, we all know of the verse speaking of the fact that muslims should Kill anyone that converts, perhaps Satan had that put in to try to prevent his hold on people slipping.

If we look at any seemingly hatred on this board, I think it probably comes from a passion for the fate of Israel, most of such posts seem to come on such topics.

Yes... that is exactly why the verse is there. And it is not just that verse...there are hundreds that keep muslims under control...

There is a hadith where Muhammad said he looked into the hellfire and the majority of people there were women... that is why you see so many woman putting up with what they do.

But about Israel... is the Israel today the same Israel talked about in the Bible? Because remember their current government is secular.. it is not Jewish... while some members of the government are Jewish.. the country itself is not really ran by Jewish laws. Now that is just my opinion... and I could be wrong... but that is what I have seen.

[Kist]

Israel might be quite secular, but that doesn't change it's position in the eyes of the Lord. In fact Israel, and it's people have a central role in the fulfillment of alot of the prophecies that are being fulfilled at this time, and will be fulfilled in the (near) future. Is this Israel the same as the biblical Israel? Don't forget the recreation of the state of Israel in ONE day has been prophecised even before the state of Israel was destroyed, thus even if the state of Israel has no similarities with the ancient Israel, it is a biblical state of importance to us Christians. The state of Israel of today is repeatedly mentioned in bible prophecies. The Jewish/Israeli people are still God's chosen people. In Deuteronomy it is told upon the Jewish people:
“For you are a holy people unto the LORD your God: the LORD your God hath chosen you to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because you were more in number than any people; for you were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers…”http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/D...=home&content= This points out, no matter what happens to the Jewish people they are the Lord's people, and the land is rightfuly theirs.

Also what we should remember is that the Jews are blinded for the truth, so we could be saved. In Romans 11 the holy spirit said through the Apostle Paul:
11.11: “through their fall… salvation has come to the Gentiles.”
11.12: “their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles….”
11.15: “their being cast away is the reconciling of the world….”
11.30: The Gentiles “have now obtained mercy through their disobedience….”

The Jews are our oldest brothers, who have suffered through their falling, for our salvation. Now one could ask are the current Israeli/Jewish people the descendents of the Jews of old. Well not too long ago a research was published, proving the strict laws(remember you can only be called a Jew if your mother is Jewish), have resulted in the Jewish people that have been spread all over the world still having more incommon with eachother than with the other people in their country.

[mattfivefour]

Here are a couple of links from koti. I have checked them out and think they are useful and glorify Jesus.

Dr. A. A. Ahmed, Author and Scholar. - My Testimony

A Muslim Journey to Hope

Thanks you for providing them, sis.