Damon Thompson

[Robert]

Don't waste your time Micah. You are way to sensitive and accusing to have a civil discussion with. I made one statement about being careful about calling people devils and wolves and you responded with these types of statements:

"trying to intimidate and isolate me by threats and insults and insinuations...but leave out the bully tactics please. "

I have no desire to argue with you. If you displayed the fruits of the Spirit I would be glad to present what I feel to be the truth to you but that seems to be greatly lacking in your approach.

You cannot say that Micah does not display the fruits of the spirit simply because he has a disagreement with you. And frankly, it is our job to point out apostasy when and where we see it. If in your eyes that makes one lack "the fruit of the spirit", then count me in as well as Mattfivefour, Chris, Sean Osborne, Meg, mikhen7, Carl, MikeD, and pretty much the majority of the board. We are to be Bereans, not trusting the spirits but testing them to see if they are from God, and searching the scriptures daily.

Let's face it: you came here to recruit people, not to fellowship. And you're upset that no one here is buying.

I am not going to put up with you making accusations against the brethren here; therefore I am departing this thread and placing you on my ignore list.

[Chris]

What is OSAS?

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved.
OSnAS = Once Saved NOT Always Saved.

the thief on the cross was hurling insults on Jesus and then repented when He saw the love of God and realized that he deserved death but Jesus was righteous. He did not make a scared death bed confession but rather put His faith in Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus was entering into His Kingdom.

Certainly sanctification is a process but that does not negate the fact that we must be instantly born again and become a new creation with all old things passing away to be a true child of God. Sanctification is being transformed into the very image of Christ and we are all in that process, hopefully. We need living faith to access real grace to truly save (deliver, make whole) us. We need that grace to start the process and be justified and we need that grace to continue the process and be sanctified.

Remember that Abraham was not justified by faith alone but by what he did. Real faith produces real actions plain and simple.

It doesn't matter if you're in the closet, on top of the house, on the Cross, or on the death bed when you make a decision for Christ. It is the genuineness of it that matters. You either mean it or you don't. People are saved at that moment. The Holy Spirit is sealed inside us guaranteeing us salvation on the day of redemption. Sanctification is an ongoing process where we do works out of appreciation for what Jesus has done for us, not as works to help us get saved or stay saved. The Bible says to not judge others by their outward appearances. Only Jesus can see what is in the heart. Blanket statements do not uphold doctrines. I quoted Martin Luther who is the father of the so called justification by faith alone movement. Would anyone like to comment on the fact that he did not believe what is taught today? I totally and completely adhere to justification by faith alone but faith needs to be defined biblically as I did earlier.

We are saved by what we believe, not how we behave. Although I do agree with you that when someone gets saved they will usually show fruit but it's not our place to be "fruit inspectors" as the Bible tells us not to judge by outward appearances. Everyone progresses differently in their walk.

[Chris]

Folks need to read this article and especially note the "Union and Fellowship" section. :-)

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OSAS, The Whole Story | GraceThruFaith

OSAS, The Whole Story
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

If you follow our “Ask a Bible Teacher” feature, you know how many comments I’ve received lately that question the Doctrine of Eternal Security (aka Once Saved Always Saved or OSAS). Based on their content I’ve concluded that many people neither understand OSAS nor have they considered the alternative.

Let’s Begin At The Beginning

It’s time to set the record straight once and for all. What does it take to be saved? I think the best answer to that question is the one the Lord gave in John 6:28-29.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Here was a perfect opportunity to list all the things we have to do to meet God’s requirements. Jesus could have rattled off the 10 commandments. He could have repeated the Sermon on the Mount. He could have listed any number of admonitions and restrictions necessary to achieve and maintain God’s expectations of us. But what did He say? “Believe in the one He has sent.” Period. It was a repeat of John 3:16, confirming that belief in the Son is the one and only requirement for salvation.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A few verses later in John 6 He said that this wasn’t just His idea, as if that wouldn’t be enough, but that His Father was in complete agreement. And not only would our belief suffice to provide us with eternal life, but that it was God’s will that Jesus lose none of those who believe. You and I have been known to disobey God’s will, but has Jesus ever done so? And isn’t He the one who’s been charged with the responsibility for keeping us? Let’s read it.

“For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:38-40)

Just in case we missed this promise, Jesus made it again even more clearly in John 10:28-30. “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Father and the Son have both accepted responsibility for our security. Once we’re in Their hands, no one can get us away.

I have purposely only used words straight from the Lord’s own mouth to make this case because I can already hear the choruses of “Yes Buts” mounting as those who refuse to take them at face value get ready to trot out their favorite verses denying Eternal Security, misinterpreted though they are.

The one characteristic of God’s that gives us the most comfort is knowing that He can’t lie or change His mind or contradict Himself. He can’t say something in one place and then say something entirely different in another. He’s consistent. If He says that we’re saved solely because of our belief in Him, and that He’s accepted responsibility for keeping us so, then we can count on that. As we’ll see, anything in the Bible that seems to contradict these simple, straightforward statements has to be talking about something else.

But first, since He puts so much emphasis on belief, let’s take a closer look at that word. What does He mean when He says “believe”? It must be more than just a casual thing because reliable statistics show, for example, that 85% of those who come forward to “receive the Lord” at a crusade or other evangelistic outreach never form any connection with a church or Bible Study or in any other way demonstrate a relationship with the Lord afterward.

And Jesus spoke of the seed that fell on rocky places. He said, “This is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.” (Matt. 13:20-21) If these people were saved and then fell away, all His promises above have been broken. There must be more. So what does it mean to believe?

The Greek word for believe is “pistis.” According the Strong’s Concordance, it’s a “conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervor born of faith and joined with it.” In connection with the Lord Jesus, it means “a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God.”

The Apostle Paul gave us valuable insight into the nature of this belief. He wrote, If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

This isn’t just some intellectual thing that carries us away on the words of a captivating speaker, only to leave us flat a short time later. It’s a conviction that’s formed deep in our heart, the realization that Jesus is not just a man. He’s the Lord Himself, and He took upon Himself the penalty due us for our sins, which is death. And to prove that God counted His death as sufficient, He raised Jesus from the dead to be seated beside Him in the Heavenly realms. (Ephes. 1:20) Since God can’t dwell in the presence of sin, and since the wages of sin is death, every one of our sins has to have been paid for. If even one remained unpaid, Jesus would still be in the grave. We have to believe that Jesus rose from the grave in order to believe that we will.

It’s that kind of belief that gets you saved and keeps you that way, because it sets in motion a chain of events that’s irreversible. There are four links in this chain. You supply two and the Lord supplies two. You hear and believe, and the Lord marks and guarantees.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

The word translated “deposit” is a legal term. Today we would say Earnest Money. It’s a down payment that constitutes a legal obligation to follow through with the purchase. If you’ve ever bought any Real Estate, you’re familiar with the term. If not, here’s another example. It’s like we’ve been put on “lay away.” The price has been paid and we’ve been taken off the display shelf until the one who has purchased us returns to claim us. In the mean time we cannot be bought by anyone else, because we legally belong to the one who has paid the deposit. “You are not your own,” we’re told. “You were bought with a price.” (1 Cor. 6:19-20)

All of this happened at our first moment of belief, before we could do anything to either earn or lose our position. The man on the cross beside Jesus is the prototype for this transaction. Having done something bad enough to get himself executed, he was promised a place in Paradise solely because he believed in his heart that Jesus was the Lord of a coming Kingdom.

Paul made it even clearer when he repeated this incredible promise in 2 Cor. 1:21-22. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

This time He removed all doubt as to just Who it is that keeps us saved. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. What could be clearer?

Union And Fellowship

If the Doctrine of Eternal Security is so clear then why all the disagreement about it? I’ve found two reasons. The first is the two-sided nature of our relationship with the Lord. One side is called Union and is Eternal and Unconditional, based only on our belief. Ephesians 1:13-14 describes our Union with God, sealed and guaranteed. Once we’re born again, we can’t become unborn. It’s good forever. The Holy Spirit is sealed within us from our first moment of belief until the day of redemption.

The other side is called Fellowship and it’s a bit more complicated. Fellowship is that state of continual closeness to God that enables Him to bless us in our daily lives, by making things happen for us and protecting us from attack. It’s like He’s teamed up with us to give us a supernatural advantage. Fellowship is defined by 1 John 1:8-9 as being both Earthly and conditional upon our behavior. Even as believers, as long as we’re here on Earth we’ll continue to sin. Since God can’t abide in the presence of sin, our unconfessed sins interrupt our Earthly relationship with Him and may deprive us of blessings we might have otherwise received. We’re still saved in the eternal sense, but out of Fellowship here on Earth.

When we’re out of Fellowship, we’re legitimate targets for our enemy’s mischief, just like Job was. His sin was self-righteousness and because he wouldn’t confess it, God had to let Satan afflict him in order to bring him to his senses. For a New Testament illustration, look at the parable of the Prodigal Son. (Luke 15:11-32) Like the younger son, we’ll still belong to our Father’s family, but won’t receive any of its blessings while we’re out of Fellowship. And like both Job and the Prodigal, when we return to our Father and confess our sins, we’re immediately purified from all unrighteousness and restored to Fellowship.

One reason that many Christians live such defeated lives is that having only learned about the Union part of being a believer, they only know that God has forgiven their sins and that they’ll go to be with Him when they die or are Raptured. They don’t realize that they still need to confess every time they sin to stay in Fellowship. And so, being deprived of God’s providence, they may become discouraged and even stop praying and attending church. Other believers, who don’t understand the dual relationship either, look at the mess they’re in and think they must have lost their salvation. Like Job’s friends, they look in God’s Word for confirmation, and by taking verses out of context, believe they have found the proof.

Union and Fellowship are not just New Testament ideas. In the Old Testament, even when Israel was being obedient in thought and action, doing their best to please God, the priests still had to sacrifice a lamb on the altar every morning and every evening for the sins of the people. 1 John 1:9 is the New Testament equivalent of those daily sacrifices for sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. It was written for believers who are already saved, but are in danger of being out of Fellowship because of their sins.

The Gift And the Prize

The other reason people get confused is that there are two types of benefits in Eternity. The first is the free Gift called Salvation that’s given to all who ask in faith irrespective of merit and guarantees our admission into the Kingdom. Ephesians 2:8-9 is the model, saying that salvation is a Gift from God.

The second consists of Heavenly rewards we can earn for the things we do as believers here on Earth. Philippians 3:13-14 are good verses for explaining this. Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. In addition to the Gift, there’s a Prize.

A gift is something given out of love, irrespective of merit, and is never taken back. A prize, on the other hand, is something we qualify for and earn. And if we’re not careful we can lose it. (Rev. 3:11) Paul had already received the Gift of salvation, it was behind him. Now he was focused on winning the Prize as well.

In 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 he explained the difference in greater detail. Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

No Olympic athlete was satisfied just to have qualified to participate in the games. Everyone wanted to win the victor’s crown. Likewise, we shouldn’t be satisfied just to have received the Gift of salvation. We must now live our lives as believers in such a way as to win the Prize as well.

The Bible calls some of these prizes crowns, and while the athlete’s crown soon wilted away (it was a wreath of ivy) the crowns believers can win last forever. They’re worth making some sacrifices for. That’s why Paul said, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (1 Cor. 9:27) The crowns are identified as the Everlasting Crown (Victory) in 1 Cor 9:25, Crown of the Soul Winner in Phil 4:1 and 1 Thes 2:19, Crown of Righteousness in 2 Tim 4:8, Crown of Life in Jas 1:12 and Rev 2:10, and the Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5:4.

The difference between the Gift and the Prize is also seen in 1 Cor. 3:12-15. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

At the judgment of believers, the quality of our work on earth will be tested by fire. Only work that survives the test will bring us a reward. But notice that even if all our work is destroyed in the fire, we’ll still have our salvation. Why? Because it’s a free Gift, given out of love, irrespective of merit.

The Lord mentioned other rewards as well. In Matt. 6:19-21 He advised us, “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

There are things we can do as believers while here on Earth that will cause deposits to be made to our heavenly account. Some believe that this passage refers to the way we use the money we’re given. Do we use it to enrich ourselves, stacking up possessions that far exceed our needs? Or do we use it to further the work of the Kingdom? Here’s a hint. Our tithe is what we owe to God. It’s what we do with the money we have left that really counts. And with the measure we use, it will be measured to us. (Luke 6:38)

To summarize, in the New Testament there are verses like Ephesians 1:13-14 that talk about Union. There are verses like 1 John 1: 8-9 that talk about Fellowship. There are verses like Ephesians 2:8-9 that talk about the Gift and there are verses like 1 Cor 9:24-27 that talk about the Prize.

Those that stress belief, explain the permanent nature of our bond with God, and are directed toward eternity are Union verses. Those that involve grace and faith are Gift verses. Those that require work and are directed at the quality of our lives on Earth are Fellowship verses, and those that require work and involve eternal rewards are Prize verses.

When you view Scripture from this perspective, all of the apparent contradictions disappear and you no longer have to wonder why God seems to be saying one thing here and something different there. The issue becomes one of correctly identifying the focal point of the particular passage you’re looking at. Determine the context by reading verses around it, and assign it to one of the four categories.

Give Us An Example

Hebrews 6:4-6 is a passage often cited in opposition to Eternal Security. The entire letter is to Jewish believers who are being enticed back into keeping the Law, so the context is New Covenant vs. Old. And in verse 9 the writer hints that he’s been talking about things that accompany salvation. That tells us that verses 4-6 are not related to salvation but things that accompany it. More importantly the idea that a believer could do something to irretrievably lose his salvation is in direct contradiction to the very clear promise that the Holy Spirit is sealed within us from the very first moment of belief until the day of redemption.

So what could these believers be in danger of falling away from due to their sins? Fellowship. And what could prevent them from being restored? The practice of Old Covenant remedies for sin rather than invoking 1 John 1:9. They’d be relegating the death of the Lord to the same status as that of the twice-daily lamb. The Law was only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. Once the Reality appeared, the shadow was no longer effective. And what would be their penalty? Living a defeated life, bearing no fruit, all their works burned in the judgment of 1 Cor. 3. But still saved? Yes. Hebrews 6:4-6 is a Fellowship passage.

Suppose There Is No Security?

In closing, let’s look at the alternative. What are we faced with? If Hebrews 6:4-6 for example applies to our salvation then if we ever sin after being saved we’ll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us. The New Covenant would be worse than the Old, not better. They were condemned for their actions. According to Matt. 5 we’d be condemned for our thoughts. They couldn’t murder. We couldn’t even be angry. They couldn’t commit adultery. We couldn’t even have a lustful thought. Think of it. No anger, ever. No lust, ever. No envy, ever. No idolatry, ever. No favoritism or discrimination, ever. No impure thoughts or deeds of any kind, ever. Is this the Good News, the incomparable riches of His Grace? Did God become man and die the most painful death ever devised only to put His children into an even more untenable position than before? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law? I can’t believe so.

Some take a more moderate view of this saying that God would never take back the gift of salvation, but that we can return it. To justify this position they have to put words in the Lord’s mouth. When He says in John 10:28, “No one can snatch them out of my hand,” they have to insert the phrase “but us” after “no one”. Same with Romans 8:38-39.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. They have to insert the phrase “but us” after “in all creation”.

None of this defense of Eternal Security is intended to condone sin. As an indication of our gratitude for the gift of salvation, believers are continually admonished in Scripture to live our lives in a manner pleasing to God. Not to earn or keep it, but to thank the Lord for giving it to us. And to help us do that, the Holy Spirit has come to dwell in us to guide and direct us, and to pray for us. Since the Spirit of God lives in us we are no longer controlled by the sin nature and can choose to please God by the way we live. And even though we do this out of gratitude for the Gift He’s already given, which is Union with Him, He blesses us both here on Earth (Fellowship) and in Eternity (the Prize). Selah 10-07-06

[Chris]

I am neither and have never been in anybodies camp for that matter. Every scripture is true and they all fit together perfectly. Can a person lose their salvation? Salvation is a simple word meaning set free, made whole, healed etc. It is not notch on our belts. We are either saved or we are not. the Bible teaches that we were saved, are being saved and shall be saved. All of those are dealing with being set free from the power of sin and death and have nothing to do with making a one time confession that guarantees Heaven. Therefore, I am sure you would label me and not once saved always saved. Today is the day of salvation just like today is the sabbath day (Hebrews 4). Yesterday is not the day of salvation and tomorrow is not either.

On the the other hand immature doctrines exist on both sides of the argument. I certainly don't believe that someone loses their "salvation" because they sin or blow it one day. We are engrafted into the vine and if there is at least some fruit we will be pruned. If there is none we will be removed plain and simple just like the rest of the scriptures concerning this subject.

to me it is sad that we have to constantly focus on this stuff. I can tell you for certain that I have been a lot of places and I have never seen anyone who has any power in their lives believing in what you would call once saved always saved. If we would go into all the world and give up our lives for the Kingdom, live a life of fasting and prayer and pursue Christ with all our heart mind soul and strength then He would fill us with His power and understanding and we would not need to argue.

Got to hit the hay. I may come back another time

OSnAS is a false teaching as pointed out in the above article. I'd suggest that you read the article I posted above your last comments as it explains all the salvation issues in once short and concise article. We do not promote OSnAS doctrine here. We only support biblical doctrine and that is clearly OSAS. The thief on the Cross is proof of OSAS. If a person says they believe in OSnAS then I would honestly say they don't even understand the issue of salvation.

This article is the best one I've encountered that explains the salvation issue and in an easy to read article. People get the grace through faith and faith without works verses all tangled up. And as a result all kinds of false teachings sprout up as a result.

Also, it is against the rules of the forum to promote doctrines other than biblical ones. OSnAS is not allowed here. Please review the rules at the top of the forum before posting again. :-)

[micah719]

If you displayed the fruits of the Spirit I would be glad to present what I feel to be the truth to you but that seems to be greatly lacking in your approach.

Not interested in your subjective feelings, only what The Lord says in The Bible. There is also a gift of the Holy Spirit called discernment. As to fruit display, get the beam out and practice a little of what you're preaching. This following passage is, well.....

I appreciate your response and your lack of questioning my motives. It shows a level of maturity that is not seen often among critics. Perhaps you could have left out the comments about my online ID but I can understand your recommendation. I could say the same thing about the picture of you suited up connected to your post. Perhaps you wanted people to see your age and dignity so they would respect you more or perhaps you just threw a picture of yourself on here without a second thought as I did my long time ID. You also have moderator under your name. I doubt you have thought about that but it gives you status and can be intimidating to some. Maybe you should use a separate ID just to moderate so no one will think you are prideful or trying to intimidate when you are participating in discussions. I try not to read into stuff like that too much and to be honest don't really care about all that.

Then why mention it.

Still under the grinder here, which is not entirely unexpected. Once that hydra-head is subdued, hopefully I'll get to make that post. Please slow down on the material before the thread derails completely.

[micah719]

Judas Iscariot was sent out with the other 11 to heal the sick, cast out demons and preach the Gospel. He obviously had power given to him or else the disciples would have suspected him and not needed to ask who the traitor was at the last Passover meal before the crucifixion. This is one example to show that the Lord uses lost people to accomplish his purposes....indeed, He doesn't contradict those that present their works (done by power), just their relationship. He said "I never knew you". That means they never were saved, or else He would have said "I once knew you". As to insisting believers display power as evidence of salvation, I thought the evidence was love. That Love cannot exist without Truth seems to be forgotten by those that confuse phileo with agape. How about Elisha? The man of God died sick, obviously no power there, or he wasn't in on the secret on how to confess himself to a healing, or maybe he wasn't saved. Hardly. And David, sending one of his best warriors to die so he could steal his wife, and ending up losing 4 sons and a having a bunch of trouble. How about Jeremiah then, not much power evidence there, getting dragged to Egypt and murdered by the idolatrous crowd after a lifetime of "failed ministry" (no conversions, no healings, just trouble). The point is, anyone expecting a fruit tree to bear fruit immediately and constantly is a fool. Last word on power.....here's the Philadelphian church, notice their woeful powerlessness and what The Lord compliments them on and the reward they get:

Rev 3:7-13
7 And to the angel (messenger) of the assembly (church) in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the Holy One, the True One, He Who has the key of David, Who opens and no one shall shut, Who shuts and no one shall open:
8 I know your [record of] works and what you are doing. See! I have set before you a door wide open which no one is able to shut; I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept My Word and guarded My message and have not renounced or denied My name.
9 Take note! I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and learn and acknowledge that I have loved you.
10 Because you have guarded and kept My word of patient endurance [have held fast the lesson of My patience with the expectant endurance that I give you], I also will keep you [safe] from the hour of trial (testing) which is coming on the whole world to try those who dwell upon the earth.
11 I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one may rob you and deprive you of your crown.
12 He who overcomes (is victorious), I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of My God; he shall never be put out of it or go out of it, and I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which descends from My God out of heaven, and My own new name.
13 He who can hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies (churches).

So, your OSnAS tries to shut the door, and your power-doctrine steals the crown from those that persevere in faith without looking for experiences. We can't save ourselves, and we can't keep ourselves saved (see Galatians). The Lord is true to His promises. He knew the day I repented to salvation that I would sin again, and horribly, yet He saved me and is working to sanctify me. It's all His work, and whatever crown He may give me is going to land at His feet straight away. He is truly awesome, that's the only thing I'll ever boast in. If I'm wrong and He throws me into hell, I'll praise Him anyway, and it's what I deserve anyway. If it were up to me to maintain salvation I'd screw it up quick smart, or delude myself into thinking I could do it, and inside live a life of constant fear. I'm a sheep, He is the Shepherd, I hear His voice and it doesn't sound like yours. In Him I am secure, under your scheme I'm under constant pressure to do what I couldn't do before. This kind of fear is what I had the first time I sinned after repentance, and it is the devil sowing condemnation so as to trick me into relying on anything other than God. Hope you let go that OSnAS, and experience freedom in Truth, the lightness of The Lord's yoke, and admit your complete powerlessness in everything so that His strength can be made perfect in your weakness. Blessed are they who believe that have not seen....the showbiz purveyors can take a hike, I've seen more phony miracles than real ones in this world. As predicted.

Now I've lost most of my sleep again....ah well.

[srjrfan]

I understand that I'm new here, but I would like to address some things that I saw in these post about Damon Thompson.

First, in the first reply, Damon was guilty by association. Dont you think that is what is wrong with Chirstianity today? We judge one person by who they are associated with. My best friends from childhood do not go to church, drink and party all the time. When I go home I like to hang with them, not to do what they do, but I love these guys and hope that I will rub off on them, and it gives me a chance to witness to them. So because I hang out with them, does that make me a drunk? To the original poster, listen to his teachings, if you dont like them, dont listen to them, but do not judge the man.

One poster put....."And if the ministries have truly brought you to Christ, then that is wonderful." Why would you doubt this persons salvation if you dont even know them? Because of where he was saved? I know people that were saved on a dirt road, in bath rooms, where he got saved is irrelevant.

Another poster - "On those points, please don't mention Mr Thompson as a brother of mine;" Even David didnt go against Saul EVEN when Saul wasnt really annointed anymore. And Saul was trying to kill David.

Another - "As to the Ramp itself, have you not read the current statement on their constantly revamped website that says, ""The Ramp’s intent is to summon the youth of the nations to the reality of Jesus Christ and to equip them to impose His Kingdom"?....Impose was underlined, Do you even know what impose means? There are few different meanings, but I like this one - : to arrange (as pages) in the proper order. Shouldnt it be that we should be grateful that souls are being won? That the devils youth group is getting smaller?

I hope I dont mis-qoute here, but one person alluded that the theif on the cross was a perfect example of eternal security.....Really? The theifs on the cross represent free will, not eternal security. One theif accepted Jesus, the other one didnt. One theif will be with us in Heaven, one wont.

People will be known by their fruits (not works). If in fact Damon is false, God will take care of him, not man. So unless if someone is being told by God Himself and I would think He would tell someone that can actually do something about it, and even if they do fall, I refer back to David and Saul, we need to watch what we say about other people.

In Christ,
Darrell
Romans 12:2