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  1. #21
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Yes, this is the tragedy. The Calvinist teachers and preachers, by their doctrine, encourage false hope in the unrepentant. The irony is that the Calvinists claim Arminian doctrine leads to loose living, when it is actually their own that does so. No wonder OSAS has received such a bad name!
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by mbrown1219 View Post
    Not many should be teachers, as they are called to a much higher standard and their position as a "teacher" will be judged more harshly because of leading many astray.

    James Chapter 3 FYI
    I have a book I bought from a Christian bookstore. I think most of it is slanted towards theological garbage. I found answers in it that helped me defeat a current heresy. Should I throw it out because it is garbage or should I keep it because I was smart enough to separate error from truth because I know my Bible more than some people?

    There are a lot of sinful people on the internet but they can do math. If they can do theological math, it is still math. If false teachers only said what was wrong, wouldn't people say, "That is ridiculous"?

    I have another question for you. Should I stop my fighting heresy because I might make a mistake? Should I become theologically impotent and not speak out because I might make a mistake and cause harm?

    King David made big time mistakes. Should we get rid of him because he hurt people?

    Should I let people go to theological hell because I'm afraid to make a mistake?

    Would you be willing to let people be deceived and go to hell because your brother Chuck was afraid to make a mistake?

    Paul traveled to Mar's Hill and saw the inscription to the unknown God. Was he deceived by going there? If a believer has the truth, should he be afraid to look at error? I mean, should I be afraid to witness to the Jehovah's Witnesses because they might deceive me? I have the truth. God has saved me from being deceived by giving me His word hours before I would have been deceived. I trust in Him completely. God has my phone number.

    Chuck

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfivefour View Post
    Yes, this is the tragedy. The Calvinist teachers and preachers, by their doctrine, encourage false hope in the unrepentant. The irony is that the Calvinists claim Arminian doctrine leads to loose living, when it is actually their own that does so. No wonder OSAS has received such a bad name!
    How can we love our brother R.C. Sproul so that he might listen and come closer to what you want him to become?

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Chuck, I am afraid you miss the real point. And it had nothing to do with living or not loving our brother. Nor so I desire to make him into what *I* want him to become. God forbid! It has everything to do with protecting Christians who come to this site from seriously false doctrine. My love for our Lord and for those whom He died to save necessitates my speaking out.

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfivefour View Post
    Chuck, I am afraid you miss the real point. And it had nothing to do with living or not loving our brother. Nor so I desire to make him into what *I* want him to become. God forbid! It has everything to do with protecting Christians who come to this site from seriously false doctrine. My love for our Lord and for those whom He died to save necessitates my speaking out.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Victory 4G LTE using Tapatalk
    My point was not to introduce any harmful doctrines by R.C. Sproul.

    Matthew 18:17 Andif he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglectto hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


    2 Corinthians2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I [forgive] also: for if I forgaveany thing, to whom I forgave [it], for your sakes [forgave I it] in the personof Christ;
    2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for weare not ignorant of his devices.


    Can Satan have an advantage over us for following Matthew 18:17 for not forgiving R.C. Sproul? I believe Satan can.

    In order to do evangelism, you have to like people and be able to talk to people. In order for him or anyone else to repent, he has to have us involved in his life if we are ever going to be used to change him.

    I understand your point.



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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    And I yours.

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    My point was not to introduce any harmful doctrines by R.C. Sproul.
    In endorsing him, one introduces his "harmful doctrines." That's the point.

    Matthew 18:17 Andif he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglectto hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


    2 Corinthians2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I [forgive] also: for if I forgaveany thing, to whom I forgave [it], for your sakes [forgave I it] in the personof Christ;
    2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for weare not ignorant of his devices.


    Can Satan have an advantage over us for following Matthew 18:17 for not forgiving R.C. Sproul? I believe Satan can.
    Again, you are not understanding. We are not "unforgiving" toward Sproul. The mods - and members - of RF are watchful against bad doctrine. We are charged with that from the Word of God. I'm sorry if you don't see that.

    In order to do evangelism, you have to like people and be able to talk to people. In order for him or anyone else to repent, he has to have us involved in his life if we are ever going to be used to change him.

    I understand your point.
    We have no need to evangelize Sproul, quite sure he's saved.

    We are not involved in Sproul's life. If you are, great. Hope he changes his mind about a few things.

    That doesn't change the fact that we are charged to resist and call out wrong doctrine.

    This *argument* is getting silly.
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    If I forget thee, O Yerushalayim, let my right hand be paralyzed. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Yerushalayim above my chief joy. Psalm 137:5-6

    ...ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    I'm not endorsing him exactly. I'm picking and choosing.

    I went to college in a Democratic state and I encountered college professors who like certain atheistic philosophers who are basically giants. I think you know they exist so I don't have to name the names.

    What are my choices? To buy a book from a brother to counter the error or not buy the book to counter the error?

    James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    For me not to do anything, it is sin.

    It is sort of like spiritual economics. On one level you protect the weak but on the other level it hinders people who don't know philosophy so you end up being neutral for the kingdom of God and unless you find a Christian author to help those who don't know, you lose the war. Because of the lack of a bullet, a soldier was lost. Because a soldier was lost, a battle was lost. Because a battle was lost, a war was lost. You didn't replace the lesser Christian with a good Christian so a soul was lost.

    And who are you protecting really? You are protecting someone who will fall away. Why would they fall away? They would fall away because they don't want to read their Bible. They would fall away because they aren't dedicated to Jesus. They would fall away because they will listen to the power of Satan over you. What you are basically saying is that they would get into heaven even though they don't care. That doesn't sound like a solid Christian to me.

    By your plan, you are really protecting the atheistic college professor who will encounter me with their atheistic books by their philosophers. Love ceases to be love when it doesn't protect and by taking away my help, you are basically choosing who will win the spiritual war.

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I agree with rejecting Calvinism and staying Biblical but being Biblical means we're rejecting two things:

    Luke 16:8 Parallel: And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

    King James Bible

    And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

    Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
    Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

    We can still learn from unbiblical people as Jesus directed (Matthew 23:2-3) and the children of this world are wiser than the children of light. When we are instructed to cut off the world like this, we also become unbiblical by rejecting the teaching of Jesus to observe and do.

    I'm not saying to follow his heresy. I'm saying to follow Jesus.
    We can follow Jesus without listening to heretics. As you know the saying goes "a little leaven spoils..."

    We don't allow a little leaven here, not even a speak if we can avoid it.
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I think that at some point in our lives, we've all had heresies or misunderstandings about God.

    I'm not saying it was wrong for Paul to name names.

    As a child, Jesus hung out in the temple. Did those teachers have their theology all together?

    Paul caused a dispute among the Sadducees and the Pharisees. Why? What did they not believe in and what did the other group believe in? Did they sit in Moses' seat? Are we to observe and do when they don't have it all together?
    It's one thing to have wrong theology, it's another to run around and teach bad theology. It seems you are accepting to error. We are not. You will have to accept that here.
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    How can we love our brother R.C. Sproul so that he might listen and come closer to what you want him to become?
    We can pray for him, that seems to be all we can do. In the meantime, his Calvinist teachings are not allowed here.
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Mark 16:15, 20
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    20.And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    VERY few preaching today - everybody wants to teach and impress the masses with there Biblical "knowledge" (a form of pride).
    I understand teaching has it's place in the Church but with so many different "opinions" and different points of view I think the deeper things of scripture should be done in small groups and personal study.

    Preach the essentials of the Gospel to a lost and dying world - the nonessentials seem to be dividing the Body of Christ like nothing else. If one wants to believe the Calvinist way or teach the Calvinist way ... let them , just don't stamp it with Gods seal of approval as if it's ...."Gospel".


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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducati View Post
    Mark 16:15, 20
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    20.And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    VERY few preaching today - everybody wants to teach and impress the masses with there Biblical "knowledge" (a form of pride).
    I understand teaching has it's place in the Church but with so many different "opinions" and different points of view I think the deeper things of scripture should be done in small groups and personal study.

    Preach the essentials of the Gospel to a lost and dying world - the nonessentials seem to be dividing the Body of Christ like nothing else. If one wants to believe the Calvinist way or teach the Calvinist way ... let them , just don't stamp it with Gods seal of approval as if it's ...."Gospel".
    First, we have no control over what people believe, so we do "let them."

    Second, did you know that Calvinists don't separate the Gospel from Calvinism? Here's a quote by Spurgeon. It is quoted and affirmed by Calvinists - including MacArthur, et al.

    "...there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism....Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."
    A Defense of Calvinism

    Calvinism is a inextricably bound up with the salvation issue. That's a core doctrine we cannot sweep under the rug for the sake of *unity*, is it not? What does Paul say about those who "preach another Gospel"?

    It is a loathsome perversion of the true Gospel and a libelous, blasphemous perversion of the character of God. What could possibly be more a more essential, core doctrine than that?
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    If I forget thee, O Yerushalayim, let my right hand be paralyzed. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Yerushalayim above my chief joy. Psalm 137:5-6

    ...ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    You'll have to forgive my ignorance - but your posts are very complicated to understand. It's hard to tell if your pro or con or just neutral.

    Not saying this about you - but some teachers are to smart to actually know the Truth.

    2 Timothy 3:7
    Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.




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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    As regards Charles Spurgeon, Limited Atonement is one of those rare subjects when this wonderful preacher's intellect failed him. He begins with the tenet —absolutely true— that no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him. But then he falls into a sloppy intellectual argument that presumes that, because he in his life was unlovable (by his standards) prior to salvation, God HAD to have chosen him for salvation before he was born because if He had not then seeing the way he lived his life He never would have afterward. A cute and apparently clever argument, to be sure: but it ignores the fact that God knows all the days of our lives before we are born. Hence, He already knew the wretch that Spurgeon would become before He called him (or before he responded to His call.) Spurgeon and all the others (the great Andrew Murray included) hewed to the undoubted truth that God is omnipotent and His will sovereign, but discounted (or, rather, did not consider at all) the fact that God could —through an exercise of His sovereign will— in fact WILL that all men be given the choice to accept or reject His call. This is the ONLY position we can take from Scripture that includes ALL verses on the topic of God's sovereign will, not just those that fit a Calvinist argument (or an Arminian argument, for that matter.)

    Interestingly, in practice and in private, both Spurgeon and Murray believed that one could not posit a God who would purposely create people only for the purpose of making them suffer in Hell for eternity. If you read Spurgeon, you will find him saying:

    "If anyone should ask me what I mean by a Calvinist, I should reply, "He is one who says, Salvation is of the Lord." I cannot find in Scripture any other doctrine than this. It is the essence of the Bible. "He only is my rock and my salvation." Tell me anything contrary to this truth, and it will be a heresy; tell me a heresy, and I shall find its essence here, that it has departed from this great, this fundamental, this rock-truth, "God is my rock and my salvation." What is the heresy of Rome, but the addition of something to the perfect merits of Jesus Christ—the bringing in of the works of the flesh, to assist in our justification? And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here. I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor."
    Clearly this is not an argument for sovereign will to the exclusion of man's choice, nor for predestination: it is an argument for grace. I agree that Spurgeon believed in the doctrine of limited atonement —that Christ died for the sins of all those who are saved— which is practically correct but theoretically incorrect. (It is true that only those who are saved will enjoy the benefits of Christ's salvation; but it is a big step —unsupported by Scripture— to then suggest that this means that His death is only efficacious for those whom God has chosen.) 1 Peter 1:2 says plainly that we are "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father." Foreknowledge is not capricious or even sovereign choosing; it is knowing who will respond and ensuring they do. It is setting them apart and doing whatever is necessary to bring them to the point where they will accept. Those whom God knows will NEVER truly accept Him regardless of what He does are condemned by their own hearts, not by His choice.

    What Spurgeon held to regarding the doctrine of limited atonement does not necessarily mean that he believed God chose only a few to be saved. His sermons prove that, as we shall see. Andrew Murray also, while publicly hewing to the doctrines of the Dutch Reformed church in South Africa, nonetheless wrote to his wife that he could not imagine that God would ever purposely choose someone to go to Hell. If I recall correctly (my library is in storage and I do not have access to it at the moment) he said something along the lines of "my heart (or mind) rebel at that thought. It is contrary to the character of the God I know." Exactly!

    Most who claim that some great men of God were Calvinists are imposing upon these men a concept of Calvinism that they would not recognize. Spurgeon bluntly called such people "Hyper-Calvinists" (his exact word) and rejected their beliefs. To him they erred not in what they included, but what they excluded. Specifically, in his view, the Hyper-Calvinists spoke of God's sovereignty to the exclusion of man's responsibility. That he believed that "all who will may come" is clear from his many sermons and the altar calls he issued. A typical example is this:

    "‘These are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.' Look to him, blind eyes; look to him, dead souls; look to him. Say not that you cannot; He in whose power I speak will work a miracle while yet you hear the command, and blind eyes shall see, and dead hearts shall spring into eternal life by his Spirit’s effectual working."
    Clearly, as you read such "calls" to the lost, you can see that to Spurgeon Total Depravity, Limited Atonement, and Irresistible Grace meant something quite different than it does to the modern Calvinist who is, in fact, a Hyper-Calvinist by Spurgeon's own definition.

    I have always liked Spurgeon's illustration of crossing death's Jordan and entering Heaven: he said something along the lines of "as we approach the portal of that Great City we would see above the door the words 'Whosoever Will May Come'; but having entered and looking back we would see the words 'Chosen From The Foundation Of The World.'" This is the best explanation I have read of the difficult concept of both God's sovereignty and man's free will.

    On this very topic, the 19th century Scots cleric John Duncan (1796-1870) said something that bears repeating. In rejecting the Hyper-Calvinist view that God did it all, and the the Arminian view that God offered and man on his own responded, he said, "The idea that God did half and man did half is utterly false. God doing all and man also doing all is the teaching of the Bible." Prayerful consideration of that statement will reveal its Scriptural truth.

    All told, the theology of Calvinism as taught by Calvinists today has devolved into error, discounting (indeed denying) as it does man's free will. Thus we must firmly and publicly reject the teachings of men such as John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul because they (unintentionally, I believe; but unavoidably by their doctrine) impugn the character of God and cause great difficulty for believer and unbeliever alike. In like fashion we must also reject the theology of modern Arminianism, discounting as it does God's sovereign will. The balanced view of soteriology (the theology of salvation) as codified in what is termed Proportion Theology (which is taught here on Rapture Forums) is the proper "dividing" of Scripture. I encourage all who doubt that to take the time to prayerfully study the subject, trying as best as possible to discard all preconceived ideas, all pre-taught doctrines, and allowing ALL scripture on the subjects of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility to come to bear.

    I pray this helps someone.
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I think that at some point in our lives, we've all had heresies or misunderstandings about God.

    I'm not saying it was wrong for Paul to name names.

    As a child, Jesus hung out in the temple. Did those teachers have their theology all together?

    Paul caused a dispute among the Sadducees and the Pharisees. Why? What did they not believe in and what did the other group believe in? Did they sit in Moses' seat? Are we to observe and do when they don't have it all together?
    The Jewish lawyers were set in their heresies to write Jesus out of their heretical religion. Sproul is a bad apple, one to avoid.
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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducati View Post
    Needing more inside on this.
    I went to the Ligonier website and the only thing I gathered from it was it seems like a Catholic Seminary mixed in with Reformation Calvinism.

    I'm okey with some of the teachings from RC but something's leave me wondering.

    Anyone got more facts ?
    Thanks. :)


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    This teaching gave me some headaches a few years ago; until I investiagated Calvinism. The results of that study are below!

    Calvinist "Works" Teaching

    There is a powerful teaching abounding in Christendom, that all of us are "predestined" to be in one destination or another after death; often loosely termed "heaven or hell". This is based on the teachings of various Groups since the Reformation, which has an approx. date of AD 1530. Some purists state that the exact date is AD 1505 and linked to England's Henry eight with some justification. The result of Henry's resistance to Rome was the Church of England (C of E). Leaving aside the internal political struggle in England, by those trying to restore The Roman Church, many church leaders were not content that the C of E was sufficient radical in its separation from Roman Church's Doctrines.

    As Rome had become increasingly corrupt, and had reached the stage of selling "pardons" before a sin had been committed, and "post-mortem absolution" for a price; and many other perversities, the re-examination of "Doctrines" was logical. Martin Luther had already started the ball rolling by his declaration of "justification by faith in the finished work of Christ Jesus", and had put his life in danger with his affirmation at the Imperial Diet of Worms. He was destined to be burned alive by the RCC, but for the intervention of a rich and powerful German Prince.

    The dissatisfaction of some of the leaders of the C of E and elsewhere with the state of its teachings and doctrines, led to a Europe wide debate on particularly the Doctrine of Justification by Faith ( in Christ). All Protestant thinkers obviously accepted that Rome's definition was/is corrupt, and from that beginning, many variations of doctrine emerged. The notable effect of Rome's dominance for approx. 1,200 years of the definition was/is the intensity of its re-evaluation! The many definitions, and as many men, since to now is bewildering, and many have become internationally known Names.
    There is no doubt that the many Definitions cannot all be correct. However, the Definitions adopted by various Groups have become the founding Articles for the Various Denominations. Many, if not most have become almost as powerfully defended as the corrupt RCC, with enflamed passions of their adherent in discussion and history.
    Before moving into a discussion on the definition of "works", "election" and "Salvation", it is worth mentioning the writers view on the conduct of the participants of such debates. Where bad or threatening language is used, or where personal innuendo or obviously bad attitude is displayed, together with deliberate distortion of what has been said or written; then that person is disqualified from veracity, and has no qualification to be heard or debated! In the writers view, they are clearly not indwelt with the Spirit of Christ, but a counterfeit spirit of His Enemy! They have no place in honest debate! The above mentioned behaviour and attitude have been experienced by many, such is the passion of many participants, both current and in history.
    It is true to say, that no Name on earth has such effect on people and Satan's spirits, as the Name of Jesus! (Christ Jesus is His correct Title after His Resurrection). His Name provokes some to repent, some to swear, and others to wonder. That's not surprising as He was/is the Anointed of God the Father for purpose, and is now seated at the "Right Hand of The Majesty" in heaven!
    Taking "Salvation" first; The Biblical definition is clear. Acts 4:12: (KJV), "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved". This verse in context refers to Acts 4:10-11. The name in point is, Christ Jesus!
    As regards "Election", to avoid repetition the following Links give clarity:
    The Call of God: (Separate study)
    The Elect Calvin onwards; (Separate study)
    As regards "works", Scripture is clear that all works of mankind as regards their Salvation "are as filthy rags" Isa. 64:6. That none are righteous, and that Christ Jesus has on the Cross of Calvary achieved what is the impossibility for men!
    One of the great myths, and therefore confusions used by false teachers such as extreme Calvinists, is that of the definition of "works".
    They say that any work by the individual to seek and find the Truth of Jesus the Christ, is works, and therefore invalidates that person and their seeking efforts! What a travesty of interpretation and intellect! They use Eph. 2:9 (Not of works, lest any man should boast), as their foundation Text, and construe it wrongly.
    In context, the verse clearly states that the "work" refers to Christ's on the Calvary Cross, and that it cannot be added to, or diminished. It is the ultimate "finished work"!
    Why then do some religions say that "works" cannot achieve Salvation? The short answer is because they either inadvertently or deliberately misinterpret Scripture, and confuse the "work" of seeking God/Christ with that of doing "good things", which suits their "Theology"!
    God has made it clear that He WANTS people to work towards Him, to work at Scripture, to work at prayer; and to find Him in Christ Jesus. The following verses from Scripture make the point!
    In Scripture, there are a number of texts that show that God has pleasure in those that seek after Him:
    Zeph. 2:3, Dan. 10:12, Heb. 11:6, Acts 17:27, Jer. 29:13, Rev. 22:17, and more besides. These show that "working" towards knowing God is pleasurable to Him, and not as some say and teach, that it is a "works based activity", which is not allowed in their "rules"!
    An incontrovertible point is made by Jesus Christ Himself when asked what the works of God are; "the works of God are that you believe in Him whom He has sent", (John 6:28-29)!
    The "work" is done by Jesus, the "Offer" is made by the Father to the world's people, we decide with our "freewill"!
    The conclusion of the matter is, as Martin Luther said, "Salvation is by faith in Christ Jesus"; which was the cry of Habakkuk ("the just shall live by faith"), in approx. BC 500, during a time of apostasy in Israel's history. Then as now, Satan has the Truth in denial, and as our Lord stated, "Satan is the prince of this world" but only for a short time!
    The major "signal" for Christ-Ones to watch for, are the events affecting Israel! With many of men’s religions teaching that “the church is the new Israel”, Replacement Theology (Separate study) it is a "work" in itself to keep differentiating the Truth from the constant lie in this context alone!
    The many and complex formulae concocted by men between Luther and now, and incorporated into the many "religions" of men can be safely ignored where they do not concur with the Holy Spirit. The Christ-One, (Christian True) can be at peace in the knowledge of the True definition of Salvation, from the Bible the Word of God!
    rubyx1 likes this.

  18. #38
    Ducati's Avatar
    Ducati is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: RC Sproul / Ligonier Ministries

    My brain hurts. :/

    Lol


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    IamPJ and jonshaff like this.
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