Question about a Mary title

[ChristianMomma]

I have no clue if this is a proper place to ask about a Mary title but here it goes!

I have an issue with the title, "Mother of God" because I believe it to be incredibly misleading. I am sure you are all well aware with why they call her that, it has just been troubling me lately and I wanted to flush it out a little bit more.

I have been told time and again that the reason is because we cannot seperate Jesus' humanity and His divinty and that is the reason why they get to call Mary the "Mother of God"

This is what Catholics always seem to say:

1. Mary is the mother of Jesus
2. Jesus is God
3. Mary is the mother of God (since we cannot separate His divinity from His humanity)

Well, using the same formula could I not then say:

1. Mary is the mother of Jesus
2. It was through Mary that Jesus' humanity was created (Mary's seed)
3. Jesus was created (since we cannot separate His divinity from His humanity)

What do you think, am I off my rocker? Is there a solution here or am I just not thinking right?

[Robert]

Well, the thing is that scripture clearly tells us that Jesus existed even before the world did, if you refer to John 1:1. In fact, when confronting the Jews, Jesus told them "before Abraham was, I AM." So if Jesus was created, then how could he be God?

The key to remember here is that Jesus took on human form by being born as a baby via Mary. Previous to that, Jesus existed as part of the Godhead which existed long before mankind was created, let alone Mary was born. So, Mary may have given birth to God incarnate, but she was not the "mother" of God, if that makes any sense.



Paging Mattfivefour....

[Andrei]

Although the Bible never mentions the expression 'mother of God', it is one of the RCC's most important teachings. The reason why catholics believe Mary is the mother of God is because they think that since Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is God, then Mary must be the mother of God.

But you cannot simply apply mathematical transitivity in this case, because Jesus Christ is not your ordinary person.

If Mary were the mother of God, then she (a creature) would be the mother of the Creator, and of everything related to Him. How can a created being, born at a precise time in history, be responsible for the existence of the Creator who has always existed? It is absurd!

What the Bible teaches is that God, who has always existed, took on a human nature by the means of virgin birth. Thus Mary was the mother of Jesus Christ's human nature, but not of His divine nature.

I hope this makes the matter a bit more clear to you, Momma. I was raised catholic, and I used to believe their lies, too. But I feel so great now that I'm finally learning the truth about things!

[mattfivefour]

Mother of God is the Ancient RCC translation of theotokos (from two Greek words meaning "god" and "give birth to".) The Egyptian goddess Isis, who gave birth to the god-child Horus and is usually represented as a holy mother with child, is the source from which the RCC drew. This was all part of the attempts to assimilate the forced converts to Christianity they made among the pagans they conquered. Rather than force them to give up their old gods they simply changed the names of the gods but kept the titles. Thus Isis and Horus became Mary and the baby Jesus—the Madonna and Child. In like fashion all of the ancient deities were renamed as saints—some real, some fictional. It was in this fashion that the corrupted organized church, which evolved into the RCC, was able to absorb the masses and masses of pagans they brought in, without them having actually abandoned their belief in and imprecations to the ancient gods.

We have more recent examples of this in Latin America, where nominal Catholics who are descended from the Mayans can tell you; in Mexico, where nominal Catholics are descendants of the Aztecs, can tell you; and in Louisiana where nominal Catholics who are descendants of the Creoles and their voodoo beliefs can tell you that they the saints they worship by name in public actually represent in truth the ancient gods of their ancestors. In fact, I have read that many of them can tell you the name of the actual god represented by each particular "saint".

Quoting from the carribean-guide.info site:

"Creole religions developed on islands where African slaves were indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism. Generally speaking, this was possible because the Catholic practice of saint worship easily lent itself to cultural interpretation .... Slaves "creolized" the religion by attributing alternate personalities to the saints - the personalities of African gods and goddesses. One of the most important aspects of these religious alterations was their ability to remain undetected. On the outside, shrines were dedicated to Catholic saints. However, this dual-personality meant that these saints acted as little more than white masks for their African deities, and the symbols associated with the gods and goddesses were then associated with the saints. However, it's important to remember that both African religions and Catholicism underwent changes during this process. Religions also differ from island to island as well. The Creole religion created on French-speaking Haiti is called Vodou, while Spanish-speaking Cuba formed Santería. Mysticism and spiritual beliefs common on other islands included Obeah (a belief in witch-doctors and mystic practices) and Espiritismo (a more modern healing and spiritual belief)."

This explains in part why there is such strong superstition among Roman Catholics in these areas and why they are so violent when they are presented with the Truth.

[ChristianMomma]

I probably should have put in my OP that I do not believe that Jesus is created, I merely used that as an example to show why I think that the RCC's teachings have a flaw in it. I do not think that they are right in many aspects, this is just one that for some reason has been on my mind today. The whole justification on the RRC saying that Mary is the "Mother of God" is because they do not believe that you can seperate Jesus' humanity and His divinity. But, if that were the case then you would have to say that Jesus is created too. Does that make any bit of sense?

I am just trying to find a flaw within that logic. :)

Thank you mattfivefour, that was very interesting to read and I will most likely be studying that history further!

Robert and Andrei, you are both so right! The more I study RCC teachings the more sad I am and a lot of the time I am left feeling hopeless as to how to approach someone who has all of those unBiblical beliefs.