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Thread: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

                  
   
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  1. #1
    ChristReigns is offline Just passing through.

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    Default Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    I would like to discuss Baptism of the Holy spirit as I'm a little confused.

    When we accept Jesus as our savior and receive salvation by faith we are born again. We are born again with the holy spirit living inside us. I'v read that Jesus also wanted us to be baptized by the holy spirit as well. But I thought when we came into salvation through faith we already had the holy spirit?

    I know a lot claim that Baptism of the holy spirit is only certain if the person starts speaking in tongues. However an article from sermonindex tells that speaking in tongues is not required in a Baptism of the holy spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by sermonindex
    The Baptism in the Holy Spirit: The Evidence
    The Baptism in the Holy Spirit: The Evidence

    But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you… Acts 1:8

    …the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Rom. 5:5

    In Christianity today, especially Pentecostal churches, there is a lot of talk about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, an experience that Jesus said His followers should seek and expect to experience, and with that talk usually comes the question of the evidence of this Holy Spirit baptism. If you’ve been around the Pentecostal or Charismatic movement you’ve probably heard the answer “speaking in tongues”. This answer comes from Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues..”. All throughout the books of Acts we see believers being filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues (all except twice Acts 4:31, 8:17). So should we consider that to be sufficient enough to label speaking in tongues the “initial physical evidence”, or should we dig a little deeper to see if the Bible tells us of any other evidence that someone has received this gift promised by the Father. First I want us to remember that the book of Acts is a history book, though I dare not compare modern records of church history with Holy Scripture, I think we should take a look at the experiences of other believers who profess to have been baptized in the Holy Spirit:

    D.L. Moody

    In 1871 at one of Mr. Moody’s meetings, he was stirred with a desire for spiritual power by two women who would attend the meetings. He could see that they were praying, and at the close of the service they would say to him:
    “We have been praying for you.”

    “Why don’t you pray for the people?” Mr. Moody would ask.

    “Because you need the power of the Spirit” they would say.

    “I need the power! Why?” said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, “ I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago”, but the two women kept praying for him. There came a great hunger into his soul as he visited New York.

    “I was crying all the time that God would fill me with His Spirit. Well, one day, in the city of New York -- oh, what a day! -- I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name… I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were no different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world -- it would be as the small dust of balance.”


    Paul Washer

    “When I was 22 years old I’d go out street preaching in Austin, TX. I was scared half out of my wits. I’d walk around a lot of times the whole night with my Bible and not be able to share with anybody or preach, like a coward… So I decided that either this whole thing is a hoax, and I knew it wasn’t, but I said where’s the power? Where’s the life? What did those apostles do?… I went out west of Austin and I climbed up on a hill and I went crazy for 3 days. I would grab rocks and throw them at the sky and beg God to come down. Nothing happened! I went home, it went on couple more months, I almost got to the point where I was crazy. And one night I cried out to God, I don’t know how long, but God came, and I thought I was going to die. I laid on my face I don’t know how long, I covered my head, I curled up in the fetal position and just laid there. Then all of a sudden a joy that I had never known in my life, my mouth shot open… It was like everything I had ever read in the book of Psalms came pouring out of my mouth. After that did I struggle with sin? Yep! Did I struggle with fear? Yep! Did I have all the common problems with sanctification? Yep! But did my life change? Yep! I started going out there and preaching. God was real, He’s more real to me than all of you sitting in this room right now.”


    Charles Finney

    “As I turned and was about to take a seat by the fire, I received a mighty baptism of the Holy Ghost. Without any expectation of it, without ever having the thought in my mind that there was any such thing for me, without any recollection that I had ever heard the thing mentioned by any person in the world, the Holy Spirit descended upon me in a manner that seemed to go through me, body and soul. I could feel the impression, like a wave of electricity, going through and through me. Indeed it seemed to come in waves and waves of liquid love, for I could not express it in any other way. It seemed like the very breath of God. I can recollect distinctly that it seemed to fan me, like immense wings”

    “No words can express the wonderful love that was shed abroad in my heart. I wept aloud with joy and love; and I do not know but I should say, I literally bellowed out the unutterable gushings of my heart. These waves came over me, and over me, one after the other, until I recollect I cried out, ‘I shall die if these waves continue to pass over me. I said, ‘Lord, I cannot bear any more; yet I had no fear of death.”


    Duncan Campbell

    “But listen, friends, as I lay there, God the Holy Ghost came upon me. Wave after wave came rolling over me until the love of God swept through me like a mighty river! So much so, that there were moments… now listen, my daughter beside me put her hand on my shoulders and she prayed, ‘Oh God, keep his reason to daddy.’ I was never more sane in my life! But I was so wrought by the Holy Ghost that I cried and I laughed and I prayed.”

    “Someone asked me, ‘Did you speak in tongues?’ Oh, I was asked that again and again. No, my dear people, I’ve never spoken in tongues nor have I ever been in a meeting where tongues have been practiced… No dear people… mind you, when I say that, don’t think that I’m denying the gifts mentioned in the New Testament, precious gifts when God gives them. But all I can say is that it never came to me!”

    “But I say that the baptism of the Holy Ghost came to me… in a mighty cleansing, empowering power!”

    (A professor essentially asks him what difference the experience made in his life and he responds):

    “Well, I think, professor, that the difference must be obvious to you from what has already happened, ‘I said. ‘I went out to preach the same sermons with this difference- that I now saw hundreds converted, hundreds brought savingly to Christ.”


    R.A. Torrey

    “I had been a minister for some years before I came to the place where I saw that I had no right to preach until I was definitely baptized with the Holy Ghost… Then just as far as I could, I shut myself up alone in my study and spent the time continually on my knees asking God to baptize me with the Holy Spirit… I recall the exact spot where I was kneeling in prayer in my study… It was a very quiet moment, one of the most quiet moments I ever knew… Then God simply said to me, not in any audible voice, but in my heart, ‘It’s yours. Now go and preach.”

    “Some time after this experience (I do not recall just how long after), while sitting in my room one day, that very same room… suddenly, as near as I can describe it, though it does not exactly describe it, I was struck from my chair onto the floor and I found myself shouting (I was not brought up to shout and I am not of the shouting temperament, but I shouted like the loudest shouting Methodist), ‘Glory to God, glory to God, glory to God,’ and I could not stop. I tried to stop, but it was just as if some other power than my own was moving my jaws. At last, when I had succeeded in pulling myself together, I went downstairs and told my wife what had just happened. But that was not when I was baptized with the Holy Spirit. I was baptized with the Holy Spirit when I took Him by faith in the naked Word of God…”


    Jonathan Edwards

    “Once as I rode out into the woods for my health, in 1737, having alighted from my horse in a retired place, as my manner commonly had been to walk for divine contemplation and prayer, I had a view that for me was extraordinary, of the glory of the Son of God. As near as I can judge, this continued about an hour, and kept me the greater part of the time in a flood of tears and weeping aloud. I felt an ardency of soul to be what I know not otherwise how to express, emptied and annihilated; to love Him with a holy and pure love; to serve and follow Him; to be perfectly sanctified and made pure with a divine and heavenly purity.”


    Jonathan Edward’s didn’t (to my knowledge) refer to this experience as the baptism in the Holy Spirit, but it does show that he was no stranger to the power and presence of the Holy Ghost. Likewise his ministry also validates the fact that he was “endued with power from on high”.

    So all throughout church history we see men, who have accomplished great things, who were baptized in the Holy Spirit, yet without ever speaking in tongues. At the same time there are many others who have received this baptism that do speak with tongues (David Wilkerson, Zac Poonen, B.H. Clendennen,). So what should we say then? Can speaking in other tongues be the evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit? Or were these men wrong in calling their experience the baptism in the Holy Ghost? What does the Bible say?

    The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 12:4, “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.” and in verse 11 it tells us that the Holy Spirit “gives them to each one, just as He determines.” In the entirety of Chapter 12, Paul is assuring the Corinthian believers that everyone will not have the same gifts of the Spirit, and that just because one is not an “eye” or an “ear” doesn’t mean that they are not part of the body. Now with that said, I fully understand the Pentecostal interpretation of 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14, the belief that Paul is speaking of two different kinds of tongues. But lets be honest and simple in our interpretation of these chapters. In 14:5 Paul says, “I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.” Now is Paul here talking about two different types of tongues in this one verse? He would that all spoke in tongues, obviously because he sees benefit in this gift, as the preceding verse says, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself”. Paul also said that he thanked God that he spoke in tongues more than them all, yet in the church would rather speak with understanding. Paul saw great benefit in this gift and desired that all have it, and that in the church it would be used for the use of edifying the body through interpretation, but he also realized that the Spirit “gives them to each one, just as He determines.” In chapter 12:30 he asks the rhetorical question “do all speak with tongues?” , to which, the answer is obviously, NO. But our Pentecostal brothers always say, “ well not everyone who speaks in tongues has the GIFT of tongues.” (referring to giving a message in tongues that is followed by interpretation), but just because someone hasn’t used the gift in that area of ministry doesn’t mean they don’t have that gift. It is the same gift just with different uses, to edify oneself, and to edify the entire body. I believe an honest simple reading of chapters 12-14 will reveal that to anyone who is open to truth.

    Sadly we are often times blinded by our traditions. The testimonies of the men above would be denied as being the true baptism in the Holy Spirit in the majority of churches today, because of the lack of the gift of tongues, even though they got just what Jesus promised, POWER! The only evidence Jesus ever said would be is power, power to be witnesses, and power to love like He loved. “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” I love the Pentecostal church ( I am a member of an A/G church), I believe the gift of tongues should be in operation in every local body, but I do pray that the emphasis that is put on tongues as the “initial physical evidence” would be placed on the evidence that Jesus gave us:

    But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you… Acts 1:8
    I brought this up because I was watching Jimmy Swaggart and it just seems like his message is if you don't speak in tongues you didn't receive the holy spirit.

    So whats the dealio?

  2. #2
    Jacob Zamora is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Found this link on " GotQuestions.org

    Pray this Helps as I'm sure some of the Brothers and Sisters on this forum will bring more Light as well as Prayer and Study in Gods Word !!! God Bless You !!!

    Question: "Is speaking in tongues evidence for having the Holy Spirit?"

    Answer: There are three occasions in the book of Acts where speaking in tongues accompanied the receiving of the Holy Spirit—Acts 2:4, 10:44-46, and 19:6. However, these three occasions are the only places in the Bible where speaking in tongues is an evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. Throughout the book of Acts, thousands of people believe in Jesus and nothing is said about them speaking in tongues (Acts 2:41, 8:5-25, 16:31-34, 21:20). Nowhere in the New Testament is it taught that speaking in tongues is the only evidence a person has received the Holy Spirit. In fact, the New Testament teaches the opposite. We are told that every believer in Christ has the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13-14), but not every believer speaks in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:29-31).

    So, why was speaking in tongues the evidence of the Holy Spirit in those three passages in Acts? Acts 2 records the apostles being baptized in the Holy Spirit and empowered by Him to proclaim the gospel. The apostles were enabled to speak in other languages (tongues) so they could share the truth with people in their own languages. Acts 10 records the apostle Peter being sent to share the gospel with non-Jewish people. Peter and the other early Christians, being Jews, would have a hard time accepting Gentiles (non-Jewish people) into the church. God enabled the Gentiles to speak in tongues to demonstrate that they had received the same Holy Spirit the apostles had received (Acts 10:47, 11:17).

    Acts 10:44-47 describes this: “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 'Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.'“ Peter later refers back to this occasion as proof that God was indeed saving the Gentiles (Acts 15:7-11).

    Speaking in tongues is nowhere presented as something all Christians should expect when they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior and are therefore baptized in the Holy Spirit. In fact, out of all the conversion accounts in the New Testament, only two record speaking in tongues in that context. Tongues was a miraculous gift that had a specific purpose for a specific time. It was not, and never has been, the only evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit.

    Read more: Is speaking in tongues evidence for having the Holy Spirit?
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  3. #3
    ChristReigns is offline Just passing through.

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Thanks Jacob I agree with that source.

    I don't agree with people teaching that you've only been baptized if your speaking in tongues. I have had multiple experiences like those men I posted above. I can't believe that the holy spirit is not in me, I have felt him. He has transformed me too much to not be present. If my faith that he was in me was not so firm, this teaching about tongues being the only proof of baptism would have greatly discouraged me. I can see how it could possibly discourage others about their salvation. I'm strongly against the churches that preach this.

    Still confused about the difference between being baptized by the Holy Spirit and being saved?

  4. #4
    Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    All that I understand about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is that The Spirit of God comes on a person in more power than the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at Salvation. When the Spirit of God comes upon a person that person is given more ability to do God's will. A person becomes almost an extension of God on the earth.

    2 When thou art departed from me to day, then thou shalt find two men by Rachel's sepulchre in the border of Benjamin at Zelzah; and they will say unto thee, The asses which thou wentest to seek are found: and, lo, thy father hath left the care of the asses, and sorroweth for you, saying, What shall I do for my son?
    3 Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine:
    4 And they will salute thee, and give thee two loaves of bread; which thou shalt receive of their hands.
    5 After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:
    6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
    7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
    8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
    Saul's heart is changed, and he prophesies
    9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.
    1 Sam 10:2-9 (KJV)
    Here Saul has the Spirit of God come upon him prior to his becoming king. He does things that are not his normal life style. A couple of verses later we see that he is actually a shy person and insecure. Here we see that he is a changed person as Samuel says he would be. It didn't last however, we need to be refilled whereas the indwelling is permanent.
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  5. #5
    Jacob Zamora is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    " I don't agree with people teaching that you've only been baptized if your speaking in tongues. I have had multiple experiences like those men I posted above. I can't believe that the holy spirit is not in me, I have felt him. He has transformed me too much to not be present. If my faith that he was in me was not so firm, this teachings about tongues being the only proof of baptism would have greatly discouraged me. I can see how it could possibly discourage others about their salvation. I'm strongly against the churches that preach this.

    Still confused about the difference between being baptized by the Holy Spirit and being saved?"

    I testify and Give Evidence Brother that The Holy Spirit lives in Your Heart and Spirit, based on our Fellowship, and in your presence, I have Seen Gods Fingerprints and The Presence of the Holy Spirit Guide you and Lead you in CHRIST Path of Righteousness as well as Evidence of Spiritual Maturity !!! The Holy Spirit Reigns and will continue to Teach and Guide You as you Draw Close to God and God Draws close to you !!!


    But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit — the Father will send Him in My name — will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you. (John 14:26 HCSB)

    The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie; just as He has taught you, remain in Him. (1 John 2:27 HCSB)
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    Elijah's Mantle is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    I'm strongly against the churches that preach this.

    Still confused about the difference between being baptized by the Holy Spirit and being saved?

    You have to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by faith just like you have to receive salvation by faith.

    read your Bible it is really all in there

    being sealed with the Spirit is not the same as being baptized with the Spirit. Being sealed with the Spirit has nothing to do with what the Holy Spirit does when He’s poured out on all flesh. Being sealed with the Spirit is about being marked by God as being His.

    It’s about being sealed with the promise of our future.
    As Ephesians 1:13,14 says, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation
    in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

    not all Holy spirit filled believers speak in tongues
    and for the most part its perfectly ok they don't

    It is far better to understand how the Holy spirit works from reading your own Bible than to be concerned with speaking in tongues

    to help with your confusion a little more read John 16:14

    and don't be concerned that you don't have speaking in tongues most don't

    I can speak in tongues when I stump my big toe

  7. #7
    Elijah's Mantle is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    excellent scriptures Jacob
    the book of John
    you will gain much and really enjoy John
    it helped me tremendously and all the other books to
    read and grow on letting God be God
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  8. #8
    Jacob Zamora is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by Elijah's Mantle View Post
    excellent scriptures Jacob
    the book of John
    you will gain much and really enjoy John
    it helped me tremendously and all the other books to
    read and grow on letting God be God
    AMEN !!!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    The Baptism in the Holy Spirit at salvation is very subjective for every individual as God sees our unique needs and will provide the flowing that is necessary for us as individuals. We cannot compare with one another as we have different gifts, different backgrounds, and purposes as God sees fit in our lives. We are to enjoy the Holy Spirit as He fellowships with us and gives us power for witnessing to the lost. We are responsible to use God's gifts wisely and not beat others over the head with what will be different for themselves, we all have different walks with God in our salvation and on our journey to the Bema. It's not once size fits all.



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" Come LORD Jesus !
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    Elijah's Mantle is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    I brought this up because I was watching Jimmy Swaggart and it just seems like his message is if you don't speak in tongues you didn't receive the holy spirit.

    So whats the dealio?
    no that is not his message , not at all
    what seems and what is,ChristReigns is if you are born again and have a Bible and can read you need not feel disadvantaged at all.

    And it is not about others , your personal relationship with Jesus Christ as a born again believer is not supposed to be patterned after what others say do or even how they worship

    Jesus and the Holy Spirit is just as interested in you as he is all others . And if you do not care for what someone is seemingly saying that is ok to , just do not slander or say untrue things if you really are not certain. Just be certain of your own statements make sure it is fact . we are not to go about slandering others because they do speak in tongues and you don't.

  11. #11
    Jacob Zamora is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristReigns View Post

    I don't agree with people teaching that you've only been baptized if your speaking in tongues. I have had multiple experiences like those men I posted above. I can't believe that the holy spirit is not in me, I have felt him. He has transformed me too much to not be present. If my faith that he was in me was not so firm, this teaching about tongues being the only proof of baptism would have greatly discouraged me. I can see how it could possibly discourage others about their salvation. I'm strongly against the churches that preach this.
    With Gentleness and Love I don't believe ChristReigns was trying to put anyone down or judge others gifts, sounds like he was concerned about others being discouraged and then gives evidence of His Walk that The Holy Spirit lives inside Him, showing In His Heart that its more for the new believer that he is concerned about, through testimony of how the Holy Spirit Dwells in his heart despite his not speaking in tongues. ChristReigns is asking to learn, and The Holy Spirit will teach and Gently Guide him into understanding and correction, through Scripture we can show and teach all things, not through are own opinions because we could misinterpret what Brothers and sisters are trying to express. Pray that the Holy Spirit will teach us all how to Edify and Encourage and Love one Another, and Gods Wisdom fills our Hearts and Minds to Bind and Sear Gods Holy Word to our Minds Hearts and Souls, All For The Glory Of Jesus Christ.

    In my own walk at times i try to say things and they can come across as sounding a bit Zealous or judgmental, but for me I would never intentionally try to discourage or Speak against The Holy Spirit, God knows our Hearts and are intention and will Gently Guide and lead us to be Made in His Image Day by Day as the Holy Spirit dwells in our Heart. I can say as God is a Witness that ChristReigns is not like that and he Truly is a Child of God and Loves The Lord and Loves The Breathern and is Holy Spirit Filled !!!

    In the same way the Spirit also joins to help in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with unspoken groanings. And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose. For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:26-30 HCSB)

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    ChristReigns is offline Just passing through.

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Thanks for the replies and thanks for the encouragement Jacob!

    I was listening to Jimmy Swaggart last night and he did an alter call, calling for people who have not been baptized in the spirit. His wording made it sound as though if you didn't start speaking in tongues then you didn't get baptized and you can try again tomorrow. He specifically used that example alone and didn't mention anything else. That concerned me because I have heard that teaching before but dismissed it. To hear someone as notable as Jimmy Swaggart say that shocked me a little. Maybe I misinterpreted him, But I don't think I misinterpreted what he said and how he put it.

    And yes I say this because a lot of people don't speak in tongues and like I said earlier, I can see how this type of teaching would discourage them in their walk with Jesus.

    Elijah's Mantle - I told what I heard him say, did you watch the same program with me? I still stand by and don't agree with people teaching your only baptized if you start speaking in tongues, that is all I said. If Brother Swaggart does not teach that and his emphasis solely on speaking in tongues last night did not mean that, then obviously I wouldn't have any disagreements. BUT THAT WAS THE WHOLE REASON I STARTED THE THREAD.

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    Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    I may be wrong, but I have always understood that receiving the Holy Spirit (indwelling) at Salvation is different than the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
    Don't jump at me I'm no conclusion

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    twit is offline Resident

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    I may be wrong, but I have always understood that receiving the Holy Spirit (indwelling) at Salvation is different than the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.


    13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Acts 11.

    From this passage I'm led to believe that these Gentiles recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit. To the Jews, it was a sign that God granted Gentiles repentance unto life. To those Gentiles, they found salvation.

    May I mention, it is not recorded that tongues or seeking the baptism of the Holy Spirit is spoken about. Hope this helps.
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  15. #15
    mattfivefour's Avatar
    mattfivefour is online now Super Moderator

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ... other than being a prerequisite for it. In other words, you cannot receive the Baptism without first being saved. Thus the Baptism with the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with salvation. I will write more and give a full explanation when I have time (which, due to the schedule here, is not likely to be in the next day or two.)
    -------"You are not your own; you are bought with a price." —1 Corinthians 6:19b-20a

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  16. #16
    Elijah's Mantle is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    BUT THAT WAS THE WHOLE REASON I STARTED THE THREAD.
    yes I realized that fully which is precisely why I told you ChristReigns that it is perfectly ok to disagree with some one's teaching speaking or what ever . That is your personal decision And this is what I said as a reply to you regarding your statements
    And if you do not care for what someone is seemingly saying that is ok to , just do not slander or say untrue things if you really are not certain. Just be certain of your own statements make sure it is fact . we are not to go about slandering others because they do speak in tongues and you don't.
    you state
    Maybe I misinterpreted him, But I don't think I misinterpreted what he said and how he put it.
    And yes I say this because a lot of people don't speak in tongues and like I said earlier, I can see how this type of teaching would discourage them in their walk with Jesus.
    so you do not have to listen to the man's broadcast , it is that simple for you

    Ive learned a long time ago ChristReigns that when a person brings their personal dislikes and concerns before the Body of Christ and the brethren to air their dislikes discouragements or what may have you, it is not that they are necessarily seeking to straighten out their own confusion and misunderstanding

    why else ? would you have cause to state ?

    then obviously I wouldn't have any disagreements. BUT THAT WAS THE WHOLE REASON I STARTED THE THREAD.
    so are you seeking supporters for your cause ?
    or
    are you seeking to be Justified as being right to bring your personal disgruntlement's regarding this man here to discuss ?

    Take it to the man himself first ,and he would most likely would tell you that you won't certifiably be the first that has rose up to speak against him

    what is more discouraging to the body of Christ as a whole
    is when a man of God making every effort possible to get the Gospel out to lost soul's is spoken against by one first claiming they need help understanding because they are confused
    that is what you stated
    I would like to discuss Baptism of the Holy spirit as I'm a little confused.
    And then you made it about being against what the man is teaching
    I'm strongly against the churches that preach this.
    It is your personal decision to be strongly against Jimmy Swaggart and what he teaches

    what I did not and will not personally support you in or encourage you in ChristReigns is that you should seek supporter's and encouragement from others here to go on with your own discouraging disagreements regarding this man

    And I have no problem stating my reasons why I will not

    It serves NO ONE
    so your either looking to do a disservice or you are needing to be validated as right in what your doing

    neither of these will I encourage or support you in

    you may receive it from others but not from me

    I would be perpetrating a greater disservice against both to do such

    Read your own Bible for yourself and be content
    I take absolutely no pleasure whatsoever in your divisiveness disguised as wanting to discuss a subject matter to clear up your personal confusion and no I am not confused as to what your real agenda here is at this point .

    you won't get my support in it

    our conversation regarding this is officially closed
    I have no time to waste on folks that seek to divide the body of Christ

  17. #17
    Jacob Zamora is offline Citizen

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to slander no one, to avoid fighting, and to be kind, always showing gentleness to all people. For we too were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved by various passions and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, detesting one another. But when the goodness of God and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us — not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit. He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life. This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone. But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. (Titus 3:1-9 HCSB)

    Since you put away lying, Speak the truth, each one to his neighbor, because we are members of one another. Be angry and do not sin. Don’t let the sun go down on your anger, and don’t give the Devil an opportunity. The thief must no longer steal. Instead, he must do honest work with his own hands, so that he has something to share with anyone in need. No foul language is to come from your mouth, but only what is good for building up someone in need, so that it gives grace to those who hear. And don’t grieve God’s Holy Spirit. You were sealed by Him for the day of redemption. All bitterness, anger and wrath, shouting and slander must be removed from you, along with all malice. And be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving one another, just as God also forgave you in Christ. (Ephesians 4:25-32 HCSB)
    Elijah's Mantle likes this.

  18. #18
    ChristReigns is offline Just passing through.

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    I don't know what your problem is Elijah's mantle. I came here with an honest question seeking the truth. To be Frank the tone if your posts are accusing and belittling. How man times do you need to tell me to go read my bible bro. I dont post a question for someone to tell me to read my bible. Your posts were offensive to me to say the least and that should not happen on these boards.

  19. #19
    mikhen7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Here is what I clearly believe, some of my best brothers and sisters on this forum will disagree, but this disagreement has been around for centuries. I still love them all dearly and know for sure we are of the same family of God:

    1) We are Sealed, indwelled, and Baptized in the Spirit at salvation. (God does not give the Spirit by measure. You either have all of Him or none of Him,
    John 3:30-36 (NKJV)
    30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
    31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.
    32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony.
    33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.
    34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
    35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
    36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

    2) God does give us faith by measure:
    Romans 12:1-5 (NKJV)
    1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
    2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
    3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
    4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,
    5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

    2) We cannot be part of the body of Christ without being baptized in the Spirit:
    1 Corinthians 12:13 (ESV)
    13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.


    1 Corinthians 12:13 (MOFF)
    13 For by one Spirit we have all been baptized into one Body, Jews or Greeks, slaves or freemen; we have all been imbued with one Spirit.


    1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
    13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
    13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


    3) We can be filled with the Spirit may times, as a matter of fact we are commanded to be filled with the Spirit, Eph. 5:18. Even Jesus after being baptized in water and in Spirit was said to be "filled with the Spirit" as He was led into the wilderness, Luke 4:1.

    The controversy to some surrounds a second act of blessing by God, in the Nazarene church they render this as "being Sanctified" and in many Charismatic -Independent, AG and pentecostal churches "being Baptized in the Spirit." The question is, is there such thing as a second blessing? Is it taught in Scripture? The usual teachings on it surround sanctification. But the Bible clearly teaches we are sanctified,1 Cor. 6:11, are being sanctified, Heb. 2:11, 10:14, and will one day be completely sanctified, 1 Th. 5:23. Sanctification is a Spiritual Maturity process that begins at the moment of salvation and continues till the Lord returns or takes us home.

    I tend to agree with Macarthur on the issue. But again, this should not be a divisive issue. What I have seen in many churches, and I attended a Charismatic church for 3 years, is a type of spiritual superiority that fostered a sense of separation where some have felt they were not loved by God or special enough to God to receive this "second Blessing" because they had not yet spoken in tongues or some other spiritual manifestation. I knew some who quit going to church because they did not feel good enough before God and others who faked speaking in tongues just to fit in. That said, abuses are everywhere and can be found in churches of all stripes.

    Macarthur's take:

    Jesus further defines the promise of the Father for them as what you heard of from Me (cf. John 14:16-21; 15:26; 20:22). Our Lord's next words, for John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now, are reminiscent of John the Baptist's statement in John 1:33: "He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'" The promise was to be fulfilled, and the disciples would be baptized with the Holy Spirit, not many days from now—ten to be exact. Jesus promised that after He departed, He would send the Spirit (John 16:7).

    Despite the claims of many, the apostles' and early disciples' experience is not the norm for believers today. They were given unique enabling of the Holy Spirit for their special duties. They also received the general and common baptism with the Holy Spirit in an uncommon way, subsequent to conversion. All believers since the church began are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18) and to walk in the Spirit (Gal. 5:25). Yet these early apostles and believers were told to wait, showing the change that came in the church age. They were in the transitional period associated with the birth of the church. In the present age, baptism by Christ through the agency of the Holy Spirit takes place for all believers at conversion. At that moment, every believer is placed into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13). At that point the Spirit also takes up His permanent residency in the converted person's soul, so there is no such thing as a Christian who does not yet have the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:9; cf. 1 Cor. 6:19-20).


    The baptism with the Holy Spirit is not a special privilege for some believers, nor are believers challenged and exhorted in Scripture to seek it. It is not even their responsibility to prepare for it by praying, pleading, tarrying, or any other means. The passive voice of the verb translated be baptized indicates the baptism by Jesus Christ with the Spirit is entirely a divine activity. It comes, like salvation itself, through grace, not human effort. Titus 3:5-6 says, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior." God sovereignly pours out the Holy Spirit on those He saves.


    The Spirit's presence, leading, and might were absolutely essential if the apostles were to be effective in continuing the Lord's unfinished work. They had already experienced His saving, guiding, teaching, and miracle-working power. Soon they would receive the power they needed for ministry after the Holy Spirit fell on them.


    Power translates dunamis, from which the English word "dynamite" derives. All believers have in them spiritual dynamite for use of gifts, service, fellowship, and witness. They need to experience the release of that power in their lives through not grieving the Spirit by sin (Eph. 4:30), and being continually filled and controlled by the Spirit (Eph. 5:18). The latter takes place as believers yield moment by moment control of their lives to Him, and is the same as yielding their minds to the Word (Col. 3:16). The result of being filled with the Spirit is expressed by Paul's prayer in Ephesians 3:16, 20 "that [God] would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man... Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us..."


    God Bless, If you agree good, if not I still love you in Christ.
    In Christ,

    Daniel 12:3 (New King James Version)

    Those who are wise shall shine
    Like the brightness of the firmament,
    And those who turn many to righteousness
    Like the stars forever and ever.
    www.truthinspires.com

  20. #20
    BuzzardHut's Avatar
    BuzzardHut is offline Bird Mod

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    Default Re: Baptism Of the Holy Spirit

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfivefour View Post
    Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ... other than being a prerequisite for it. In other words, you cannot receive the Baptism without first being saved. Thus the Baptism with the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with salvation. I will write more and give a full explanation when I have time (which, due to the schedule here, is not likely to be in the next day or two.)
    Yes, the Baptism must come after salvation, and usually along with salvation. The Charismatics teach an extra filling is needed and one must be good enough to get it or at least know how to get it, (reminds me of those who teach we must be good enough to be raptured) and is when synthetic events can pop up and cause confusion. Our God is not a God of confusion or contention but satan is and so anything causing confusion or arguments is either from the flesh or from the evil one. there is also the group I refer to as the Charismaniacs who bring in extra-Biblical experiences with the baptism, revival type groups such as the River and the Azuza street revival (third wave) are good examples of that, Swaggart is an old school charismatic but teaches many charsimaniac principles that we must warn about and avoid. It's good to remain balanced and not miss out on the goodness of the Holy Spirit by bringing in extra-biblical manifestations.
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