Eternal Security: Part 5

[Chris]

Eternal Security: Part 5

Eternal Security: Part 5
By Dr. Arnold Frutchenbaum

Here are eleven additional points to consider regarding eternal security:[1]

1) When Yeshua died for the sins of the world, He died for all of the sins of the world, not only until the next sin was committed. The very fact that the work of Jesus was finished -the fact that He does not need to come and die again – shows that those who have received the benefits of His work cannot lose it. Those who have received salvation cannot, therefore, lose it, because it would require the Messiah to do His work all over again (Heb. 10:12-18).

2) In I Peter 1:4-5 we see that believers have been kept through faith, and are kept unto the final consummation. God is doing the keeping. Indeed, if the retaining of salvation were dependent upon the believer, everyone would lose it.

3) Every believer is a new creature or creation (II Cor. 5:17). This fact means that one cannot suddenly now eternally cease to exist.

4) Just as no one can obtain salvation by works, but only through faith, even so, no one is going to keep his salvation by works. Read Ephesians 2:8-9.

5) According to John 6:37-40, the believer is a gift given by God the Father to the Son because of the Son's obedience.

6) In I John 3:9, we read that the seed abides. The seed is the gospel seed that produces eternal life. This eternal life continually abides; it does not at some point become inoperative.

7) Salvation is a free gift (Rom. 11:29). A free gift is not truly free if it can be demanded back. When God gives a gift, it is a free gift of grace; it is not something that He will take back from the one to whom He has given it.

8) Salvation is also a birth, a new birth (Jn. 1:12; 3:3; Jas. 1:18; I Pet. 1:3, 23). The fact that salvation is a birth makes it final and unchangeable. Just as a child's physical birth is final and unchangeable, so that it cannot be put back into the womb to start all over again, even so, believers are born again.

9) A believer is not able to keep himself saved any more than he was able to save himself in the first place (Gal. 3:3). Just as God saves, God is the One who is going to keep.

10) God has paid the highest price for believers: the blood of His Son. That is too high a price to give them up now.

11) Gross sins are punished, but never at the loss of salvation (e.g. I Cor 5:1-5; 11:29-32).

-------------------------------------------

[a] This post is a modified version of Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum's original Messianic Bible Study. The full version may be obtained here.

[ForgivenOne]

Chris, is there a way to make this series a "sticky"? I know when I was saved I had questions regarding eternal security, among many other things, because I was just a 'baby' in Christ at the time. Of course I am still learning and growing, but I think that if these were a sticky, new believers in Christ could find these right away at the top.

[SlavicBaptist]

I used to believe in OSAS but I am now 100% opposed to this doctrine. I believed in it because men taught it, but Bible clearly is against this doctrine.

Salvation is a free gift that God gives to you, however you have the choice to throw it away... God doesn't take it away from you.

Here is a good resource that obliterates this doctrine: Dan Corner | NO Eternal Security | Evangelical Books | Holiness Preaching | Eternal Salvation

And I don't believe that good works are needed for salvation. No, I merely believe that Christians should repent of their sin. OSAS teaches that we shouldn't repent and worry about sin because it's all covered by the cross. Bible CLEARLY teaches that repentance is necessary. Not "good works", no I don't believe in that.

[ForgivenOne]

I have never interpreted OSAS as not having to repent of any sins I might have committed, or might commit in the future. Nor have I ever been told that I don't have to repent. On the contrary, I KNOW that I must repent even the slightest sin.

[SlavicBaptist]

I have never interpreted OSAS as not having to repent of any sins I might have committed, or might commit in the future. Nor have I ever been told that I don't have to repent. On the contrary, I KNOW that I must repent even the slightest sin.

Yes but you believe you can still enter heaven with unrepentant sin, right?

[ForgivenOne]

No sin can enter Heaven which is why Jesus died for us. Because we are human, we sin. We will always sin and God knows this. This is why he sent his son to die for us. I could go to work this afternoon and die in a car accident, and there may be something that I've not repented yet, but because I have turned my life over to Jesus, because I have accepted his gift and have been reborn, I have salvation. There is no other way to get into heaven except through him.

The question you ask comes up quite often. The only answer I have for that is to point out that no one would be able to get into heaven because there could be a sin somewhere that was committed, after they were saved, that they might not have had a chance to repent before they died. God knew that and thus the ultimate sacrifice for us.

[SlavicBaptist]

In case of car accident I agree. However those who live sinful lives and don't repent of their sin because they think they are not under the law due to OSAS belief, they do not go to heaven.

[SlavicBaptist]

The point I'm trying to make is that salvation can be lost. Some people like Jack Kelley say you can be a homosexual and practice it but as long as you're saved you'll go to heaven...

[ForgivenOne]

I can understand your reasons for not believing OSAS. I, however, believe that if you are truly saved, in the true sense the Bible tells us, that a believer would due everything they can to actively avoid what is sinful and would change their ways.

I read Jack's stuff quite often and I haven't read anywhere that he feels you can willfully continue sinning after being saved; but I could have missed something. A link to what you are referring to be helpful.

[SlavicBaptist]

I can't find the link but I've read it somewhere...

OSAS people tend to say whoever leaves Christianity after being saved wasn't truly saved in the first place... That is not Biblical. Jesus clearly said that whoever calls on His name shall be saved. Saying if someone called on Jesus' name in past and was Christian for a long time but then decided to leave the faith (this is happens often), then that person was never saved in the first place... That is just a false doctrine.

[ForgivenOne]

No worries on not finding a link... I was just interested in reading it.

There is a very real difference between denying the Holy Spirit (blaspheming) and falling out of fellowship with God. I believe the OSAS is for those who have fallen out of fellowship with God, not those who deny or blaspheme him. What event happened in the lives of those who turned away.... I don't know and I can't judge them (only God can) but I believe that if they would repent and run back to Him, God would be faithful and just and forgive them.

My husband feels the way you do, he says that because I believe in OSAS that a murderer who claims to be saved could go out and commit another murder and still get into heaven. In my heart I do not believe a murderer, who is truly saved, truly had that life-changing event in their life, could ever contemplate going out and deliberately murdering someone again; but then again, he says I am naive.

[GlennO]

OSAS And Hebrews 10 | GraceThruFaith

Eternal Security | GraceThruFaith

OSAS And Galatians 5 | GraceThruFaith

OSAS And Galatians 6 | GraceThruFaith

[GlennO]

ForgivenOne said:

I have never interpreted OSAS as not having to repent of any sins I might have committed, or might commit in the future. Nor have I ever been told that I don't have to repent. On the contrary, I KNOW that I must repent even the slightest sin.

We approach the Throne of Grace under the shed blood of Christ Jesus PERIOD!

IF we were under the burden of repenting of the slightest sin we would be operating under the of economy WORKS!

[Any Minute]

I used to believe in OSAS but I am now 100% opposed to this doctrine. I believed in it because men taught it, but Bible clearly is against this doctrine.

Salvation is a free gift that God gives to you, however you have the choice to throw it away... God doesn't take it away from you.

Here is a good resource that obliterates this doctrine: Dan Corner | NO Eternal Security | Evangelical Books | Holiness Preaching | Eternal Salvation

And I don't believe that good works are needed for salvation. No, I merely believe that Christians should repent of their sin. OSAS teaches that we shouldn't repent and worry about sin because it's all covered by the cross. Bible CLEARLY teaches that repentance is necessary. Not "good works", no I don't believe in that.

Sorry SlavicBaptist, with just a little research and understanding of God's Word, it's clear that Dan Corner is teaching false doctrine. That site certainly does not obliterate the doctrine of eternal security.

GlennO posted some good links (I hope you read through them, looking up the scripture yourself) and I could post many more on the topic. There are many threads here on RF covering the topic well also. Rather than posts walls of text, do you have specific examples from scripture that you could use to support your belief?

[SlavicBaptist]

Bible clearly teaches salvation can be lost.

Here are hundreds of Bible verses: Scriptural refutation of "once-saved, always saved"

Bible could not be any clearer.

Here what OSAS does to Christians:

Once Saved Always Saved Timebomb - YouTube

[RandallB]

Once the free gift is given it is never taken back. No one in the universe, including ourselves, can take us out of the Son's hand nor the Father's hand once we are placed there.

Repenting of sin is an extremely important RELATIONSHIP issue between the Father and His child (us). It is not a SALVATION issue after we have been Justified.

The prodigal son did leave the father to party hardy and ended up feeding unclean pigs. He essentially wished his father was dead by requesting his inheritance. But his sonship was never revoked. This sonship drew him back to his father.

We are sealed at Justification by the Holy Spirit as a guarantee that He that begins a good work in us will finish it.

Remember, “For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers.” Romans 8:29

Predestined means that it is absolutely going to happen - especially when it will glorify His Son. The path may be painful for the predestinee but that is part of the choices that are made. The more that we allow our flesh to rule the tougher this Santification path will be.

I do believe that allowing our flesh to rule after our Justification will result in a smoky countenance at the Bema Seat. Paul who wrote the book on Eternal Security to the Romans was worried about this for himself.

[Elijah's Mantle]

I have wondered lately why? it is that the folks that believe you can never loose your salvation claim that the ones who believe you can loose it say those who teach the contrary of OSAS are false

Then on the other hand I do not believe God is a abortionist either

I read this little clip from Dr. Barry Chant and thought it was quite interesting and we know even today that most folks who attempt to discern things to suite their own doctrines wind up annoyed

Do you know what really annoys me about God? It’s the way He blesses all the wrong people. You would think that a reasonable God would be more selective. Having laid down rules in Scripture both for belief and behaviour, you would think He would give special advantages to those who abide by them. But what does He do? He blesses people even when they break the rules.

Take Lourdes, for example. Some two million Catholic pilgrims go there every year to pray – many of them seeking healing – and leave crutches and other medical aids behind to prove they have received it. And why do they go to Lourdes? Because in 1858, the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared there to a peasant girl named Bernadette Soubirous. So they ask Mary to help them. Now every good Protestant knows it is unscriptural to pray to Mary. But many Catholics do it anyway and apparently their prayers are answered.

My Protestant evangelical heritage rises up in angry protest. God shouldn’t do that. I mean, it might give the impression the Catholics are right after all! If He was at all concerned about sound doctrine, He wouldn’t do things that encourage them. Wouldn’t it be better if the archangel Gabriel appeared at the healing waters from time to time to warn those earnest pilgrims that they had come to the wrong place? That they ought to take their problems to a church where the Bible is preached properly? But no, God just lets them go ahead, two million of them every year. And then, to rub it in, He actually answers some of their prayers.

Why does He do this? Obviously, when people exercise faith, He has decided to respond to it, no matter who they are or where they are. Even at a shrine to Mary. It’s enough to make Luther have nightmares.

Then there are those wild charismatic gatherings where weird things happen. People foam at the mouth, make animal noises, jerk and shudder, roll around and so on. If I was God, I wouldn’t go near those places. But what does God do? Not only does He look in on them, but He actually blesses some of those people. Here am I, teaching college students how to maintain godly order, and someone comes along and claims they were healed in a place of chaos and disorder. “It must be all right,” they argue with disarming logic, “or I wouldn’t have been healed.” How can you compete with reasoning like that?

Of course, the real problem is that God has always acted this way. From the very beginning He’s chosen the wrong people. Abraham tells a cowardly lie and everyone in Pharaoh’s palace comes down with fever. Yet Abraham becomes the vehicle for God’s blessing on all of humanity! (Genesis 12:1). Poor honest Esau gets the flick and dishonest, scheming Jacob gets the blessing (Genesis 27:1ff). Stout-hearted Saul does his best to be a decent king and it is the adulterer David who winds up with the kingdom. Paul persecutes the early Christians and then becomes the greatest apostle in history!

Actually, when you think about it, it’s probably just as well God is like this. The point is that He has promised to honour faith because it’s faith that honours Him. Even the most righteous person who doesn’t believe closes the door to God’s grace. On the other hand, the feeblest sinner who reaches out in desperate faith opens the door as wide as the arms of God (Hebrews 11:6).

It has little to do with the rightness of wrongness of the context in which the blessing occurs. Of course, where sound doctrine is taught the chances of people’s faith developing well are greatly increased. And the truth must be taught whether it seems to bring ‘results’ or not. But in the ultimate, God’s favour on anyone is not only determined by the accuracy of what they believe – but also by the attitude of their heart towards Him.

The same applies to behaviour. All over the world there are thousands of faithful pastors shepherding their little flocks, preaching their weekly sermons – and reaping only a meagre harvest for their efforts. Then along comes some profligate TV evangelist, who has a fund-raising program that would make the Mafia envious, a mistress on the side and a bathroom with gold taps, and when he preaches, hundreds of people are converted!

The local ministers look on in frustrated amazement. How does he do it? Why does God do it? It’s not fair! Doesn’t God realise what’s going on? Doesn’t He care?

What happens is that every now and again, in spite of himself, the TV preacher actually does preach the gospel and when people believe it they are saved. As they must be. For the gospel is true, no matter who preaches it – it is the power of God for salvation to every one who believes (Romans 1:16). The televangelist may also have genuine communication and ministry gifts from God which, once given, the Lord does not retrieve.

Eventually God will probably pull the rug out from under his feet and there will be a spectacular fall. As someone once said, ‘If we persist in sin, God will not remove the ministry from us; but He will remove us from the ministry’.

Anyway, annoying as it may be, we have to admit it’s just as well God does act the way He does, even though it’s very unfair. Because when you think about it, if God only blessed those whose doctrine and practice was 100% right...

Case dismissed.

salvation ultimately is the power of God no matter who preaches is

so the looming real question is why ? does so many religious oriented people go around claiming that if their doctrine does not jive with another religions doctrine that it has to be a false pastor preaching a false Gospel ???? Ive heard that one lately and was grieved in my heart that is seemingly the best respect some pastors can offer up to others regarding the Gospel of the message of the cross

I sincerely believe it is a heart matter moreover a word matter for most individuals and surely we know that the greatest idol of destruction in the modern church world is the tongue .
shockingly still is how many will take it so far they claim a preached Gospel is false because of doctrinal differences
will there ever be a time the breach is repaired ?

considering the greatest plan ever made for man concerning
reconciliation with God I believe I do believe he watches and listens for people to accept his word and show forth faith toward God and the gospel given in his word rather than debating salvation issues . Just a few things Ive pondered about it lately ,and hope it can relieve others from what might annoy them most

this part rather clarified it most for me

Even the most righteous person who doesn’t believe closes the door to God’s grace. On the other hand, the feeblest sinner who reaches out in desperate faith opens the door as wide as the arms of God (Hebrews 11:6).

[mattfivefour]

Earlier today a dear brother sent me a link to an article by a person who does not believe in OSAS. In the article the writer says, "Now, some might assume this means one can never depart from God. But this is not true. Many passages indicate true Christians can be lost. How? Through UNBELIEF. One must believe the gospel in order to be saved, and one must continue to believe the gospel to continue 'in Christ.' It is as simple as that. Works don't play any part in initial 'believing,' nor do they play a part in your continued 'believing.' It is initially by faith, and it continues to be by faith throughout the Christian life."

My response to this is as follows.

His third sentence ("Many passages... be lost") is serious error. What he says in the full passage is partially true, but the logic of his overall argument is faulty because he stands it on a faulty premise. He states a "true Christian" can be lost and then states that this is so because of "unbelief". Now, perhaps this is splitting hairs (though I do not think so), but to me a true Christian is one who believes in Jesus Christ, in who He is and what He has done (and still does). This precludes unbelief. By simple definition, if one is in unbelief one does not believe; thus one is not a Christian. His argument would appear to be that one can choose to disbelieve and thus will fall from being a Christian and be lost. To me this is an impossibility. Either a person receives a changed heart and a changed life at salvation, or s/he does not. Either the person receives the precious communion of the Holy Spirit dwelling within, or one does not. When once a person has truly tasted of the love, the mercy, the forgiveness of God in Christ, there is no possibility of then rejecting it all. Indeed, God will preserve them through all temptation.

Now, earlier in that same article, he says "The term best liked by Calvinists (when speaking of a believer's security) is 'perseverance of the saints' ... The earliest Christians taught that perseverance was not guarenteed, and that many true Christians would not finish the race, and would be lost." Now, ignoring the fact that he makes a true statement false by adding the word "true" before "Christians" in that last sentence, he is clearly confusing the "perseverance of the saints" with the "preservation of the saints." Admittedly, the two are connected; but they must not be confused. Both are different sides of the same coin; however we must never use them interchangeably. One cannot apply the "perseverance" to God and the "preservation" to the saint. The writer does the latter. There is only one correct way to look at it: God does the preserving, while the saint does the persevering. Because of Christ's finished work, God will preserve the true saint and the saint will persevere because he is in Christ.

The simply fact is—as I view together ALL of the theology I have learned from the Holy Spirit over the years, from God's very nature to God's clear commands—once we truly accept Christ in full knowledge of who He is and experience His great salvation, we are saved for all eternity. My belief is stands solely on the scriptural belief that our salvation is based on Christ's performance, not our own. This has nothing to do with the author of that article's argument that we can choose to become a Christian and then choose to change our minds and no longer be a Christian. No. If we change our minds in the face of what Christ did for us then we never truly knew Him. We had a knowledge OF Him, but we did not KNOW Him.

Of course, in many minds, a belief in the eternal security of the true believer as a result of God's grace will lead only to dis-grace. The argument is that believing a person is secure forever might (some say "will") cause that person to live loose. Frankly, anybody who would desire to "live loose" has never known Christ, has never been changed within, has never been born again. Grace and holiness are NOT separate! Absolutely not in any way! Grace and holiness are inevitably and eternally intertwined. The former will ALWAYS lead to the latter. Those who are surely truly saved will just as surely desire to live holy and pleasing to God, and the Holy Spirit who indwells them (note that He is not "The Spirit" but "The HOLY Spirit") will bring it to pass. Those who lead a life of carnality have never known Christ. Just as a changed heart cannot be unchanged, a holy heart cannot be unholy. And Christ changes the sinners heart, making it a holy heart. Our outward actions may take time—sometimes a long time—to manifest the new heart within; but sooner or later it will happen, in the same way that a fruit tree will bring forth its fruit in due season. A good tree always brings forth fruit after its own kind; likewise a bad tree. By their fruit we shall know them.

I pray this helps someone.

[SlavicBaptist]

Once the free gift is given it is never taken back.

You have the choice to throw it away.

[daygo]

Doesnt it say somewhere that you cannot cruicify christ twice, if so what does that particular verse mean.