Bible Codes & Jack Kelly confirm ELE (earth level extinction) event with a small planetoid SOON!!

[Any Minute]

I don't recollect that Mr. Kelley says that the New Jerusalem will be here on this earth during the Millenial reign. I remember him stating that the New Jerusalem would be above the earth, out of the earth's atmosphere.

You are correct, he doesn't teach that New Jerusalem will be on earth. The Bible doesn't teach that either, that I know of.
Rev. 21:2 ,10 describe it as coming down, or descending but it doesn't say it will make contact with the earth.

The question is does this take place before or after the Millinnium?

[mattfivefour]

From Cooper's Rule of Hermeneutics, Revelation 21:1-2 happens after the Millennium. Further, Christ lives with us in the New Jerusalem (Ezekiel 38:45 and others) when it appears, but during the Millennium He lives in Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4).

[Bobbi]

Following the Rapture, the Church will dwell in the New Jerusalem forever. All we know about what we’ll be doing is that in some way we’ll be assisting the Lord in His millennial reign. The Bible offers no information or detail about life in eternity. As for the saints going back and forth, Jesus went back and forth, and 1 John 3:2 says we’ll be like Him.

Where exactly do you get this information about the Church living in New Jerusalem before the end of the Millennial reign? Also what do you do with Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of god who hand not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their forheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Also Revelation 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. If the saints are in New Jerusalem forever who are these armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean?

Also Why would Christ marry his bride and then leave her for 1000 years to reign on the earth and leave the church in another city. And who exactly would be ruling with Christ for 1000 years if not His bride.

I have never heard anyone before Jack Kelly say that the saints wouldn't be with Christ on earth during the 1000 year reign.

[Any Minute]

Where exactly do you get this information about the Church living in New Jerusalem before the end of the Millennial reign? Also what do you do with Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of god who hand not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their forheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Also Revelation 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. If the saints are in New Jerusalem forever who are these armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean?

Also Why would Christ marry his bride and then leave her for 1000 years to reign on the earth and leave the church in another city. And who exactly would be ruling with Christ for 1000 years if not His bride.

I have never heard anyone before Jack Kelly say that the saints wouldn't be with Christ on earth during the 1000 year reign.

Hi Bobbi,

Are you asking me directly, these questions? What you quoted came directly from this article, Understanding Rev. 20-22 | GraceThruFaith


I didn't post it because I'm in agreement with it, more so because of the OP being a Jack Kelley article and the conversation went that way. I was just posting what Mr. Kelley teaches on the subject.

I'll come back and address your questions as I understand those scriptures if you want, but they're probably better suited for the one who wrote the article. I enjoy reading and have learned a great deal from J.K. , but this isn't one of those articles that I can agree with 100%.

I probably fall in line more with the other 2 articles I posted though I'm not dogmatic about it. I do think there is much speculation and sometimes scripture used out of context when trying to support certain views about the New Jerusalem.

[mikhen7]

Let's not forget that we descend with the Lord at the end of the Tribulation to the earth. Zech. 14:5, "Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You."Jude 1:14-15 (NKJV)
¹⁴ Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, ¹⁵to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

1 Thessalonians 3:13 (NKJV)
¹³ so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

The fact is we will return with the Lord to rule and to reign with Him for 1000 years. We will be living out the value of our service to God now in eternity with Him, starting in the Millennium.

I always try to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture as long as they are in the same context.
God bless!!!

[Any Minute]

Understanding Rev. 20-22 | GraceThruFaith

From the article:
"As for the saints going back and forth, Jesus went back and forth, and 1 John 3:2 says we’ll be like Him."


I personally think some liberty is taken with 1 John 3:2 to support all kinds of speculation.
Some good referencing verses are Romans 8:29 , 1 Corinthians 15:49 , Philippians 3:21

I'm not saying we won't (as many put forth) walk through walls, travel at the speed of thought, move back and forth between New Jerusalem and Earth and all the other things that are commonly read into that passage. I'm just not convinced that is what that verse is saying.



Revelation 19:14 is indeed speaking of those the Lord will bring with Him, those resurrected and raptured before the start of the tribulation.



"Also what do you do with Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of god who hand not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their forheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."



Revelation 20:4 is not speaking of the Church. These are tribulation saints, (the Church has already been raptured at this point) and they will be resurrected after Christ's second coming.


Pre-Trib Research Center -
Below is taken in part from article at link and is how I understand it.


In both 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and in 1 Corinthians 15:52 the resurrection of the dead to their immortal body immediately precedes the instantaneous translation of the living saints into their immortal bodies. Both occur within the twinkling of an eye. However, in Rev. 20:4, the resurrection of the dead at the time of the Tribulation follows the arrival of Christ on the earth. If there is no pre–Tribulation Rapture, then Church Age believers would not be distinguished from Tribulation believers and both would become martyrs during the Tribulation since the Church, in their view, would continue through the full seven years of Daniels seventieth week. The sequence of events at the return of Christ does not mention the translation of the living. The physical resurrection of the Tribulation martyrs occurs only after the return of Christ and His victory of the Armageddon campaign, the casting of the Antichrist and False Prophet into the Lake of Fire, and the incarceration of Satan in the Abyss. This sequence of events does not at all resemble the sequence in 1 Thessalonians 4 or in 1 Corinthians 15. Thus the resurrection and translation of Church Age believers cannot be placed at the end of the Tribulation.

Conclusion
From these passages we learn that a specific order of events occur at Christs return for for the Church. He returns in the clouds; in a nanosecond the dead in Christ receive their resurrection bodies immediately before the living believers are translated into their resurrection bodies and snatched up to be with the Lord in the clouds. From there the Lord will return to the Fathers house where He has prepared temporary dwelling places for His bride. Immediately following this the purification of the bride occurs at the judgment seat of Christ and then Jesus will take the seven sealed scroll and open it to begin the process of defeating His enemies on the earth. This will take seven years, at the conclusion of which He will return with His bride to the earth, defeat the armies of the Antichrist and the Kings of the earth, and then raise the tribulation martyrs from the dead and give them their resurrection bodies. At that time he will then establish His kingdom.

[Bobbi]

Understanding Rev. 20-22 | GraceThruFaith

From the article:
"As for the saints going back and forth, Jesus went back and forth, and 1 John 3:2 says we’ll be like Him."


I personally think some liberty is taken with 1 John 3:2 to support all kinds of speculation.
Some good referencing verses are Romans 8:29 , 1 Corinthians 15:49 , Philippians 3:21

I'm not saying we won't (as many put forth) walk through walls, travel at the speed of thought, move back and forth between New Jerusalem and Earth and all the other things that are commonly read into that passage. I'm just not convinced that is what that verse is saying.



Revelation 19:14 is indeed speaking of those the Lord will bring with Him, those resurrected and raptured before the start of the tribulation.



"Also what do you do with Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of god who hand not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their forheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."



Revelation 20:4 is not speaking of the Church. These are tribulation saints, (the Church has already been raptured at this point) and they will be resurrected after Christ's second coming.


Pre-Trib Research Center -
Below is taken in part from article at link and is how I understand it.


In both 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and in 1 Corinthians 15:52 the resurrection of the dead to their immortal body immediately precedes the instantaneous translation of the living saints into their immortal bodies. Both occur within the twinkling of an eye. However, in Rev. 20:4, the resurrection of the dead at the time of the Tribulation follows the arrival of Christ on the earth. If there is no pre–Tribulation Rapture, then Church Age believers would not be distinguished from Tribulation believers and both would become martyrs during the Tribulation since the Church, in their view, would continue through the full seven years of Daniels seventieth week. The sequence of events at the return of Christ does not mention the translation of the living. The physical resurrection of the Tribulation martyrs occurs only after the return of Christ and His victory of the Armageddon campaign, the casting of the Antichrist and False Prophet into the Lake of Fire, and the incarceration of Satan in the Abyss. This sequence of events does not at all resemble the sequence in 1 Thessalonians 4 or in 1 Corinthians 15. Thus the resurrection and translation of Church Age believers cannot be placed at the end of the Tribulation.

Conclusion
From these passages we learn that a specific order of events occur at Christs return for for the Church. He returns in the clouds; in a nanosecond the dead in Christ receive their resurrection bodies immediately before the living believers are translated into their resurrection bodies and snatched up to be with the Lord in the clouds. From there the Lord will return to the Fathers house where He has prepared temporary dwelling places for His bride. Immediately following this the purification of the bride occurs at the judgment seat of Christ and then Jesus will take the seven sealed scroll and open it to begin the process of defeating His enemies on the earth. This will take seven years, at the conclusion of which He will return with His bride to the earth, defeat the armies of the Antichrist and the Kings of the earth, and then raise the tribulation martyrs from the dead and give them their resurrection bodies. At that time he will then establish His kingdom.

You said "Revelation 20:4 is not speaking of the Church. These are tribulation saints, (the Church has already been raptured at this point) and they will be resurrected after Christ's second coming."

Exactly who is them in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. I understand the second part of the verse to be the tribulation saints, but who are these on the thrones who judgement was given if not the church? Also I am not talking about the beginning of the Trib, but the end. What is the role of the Church? From my understanding the Church will be reigning with Christ during the 1000 years. Jack Kelly says that the Church won't be on earth but in New Jersulam hovering above the earth. So where is the Church during this time?

[Any Minute]

Where exactly do you get this information about the Church living in New Jerusalem before the end of the Millennial reign? Also what do you do with Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of god who hand not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their forheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Also Revelation 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. If the saints are in New Jerusalem forever who are these armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean?

Also Why would Christ marry his bride and then leave her for 1000 years to reign on the earth and leave the church in another city. And who exactly would be ruling with Christ for 1000 years if not His bride.

I have never heard anyone before Jack Kelly say that the saints wouldn't be with Christ on earth during the 1000 year reign.

The way you wrote this post made me think that you were implying that Revelation 20:4 (....those beheaded for their witness...) and Revelation 19:14 (....the armies in heaven..) were the same group of people.

If you were comparing Rev.20:4, those who sat on the thrones, to the armies of Rev. 19:14, then I'm not sure I can help you. I don't know for sure who "they" are (seated on the thrones). There are many articles and commentaries on the topic with varying opinions. I lean towards The Apostles, spoken of in Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:28-30.

Revelation 19 7-8, The Marriage of the Lamb, tells us who(His wife, the Bride, the Church) is clothed in fine linen, clean and white. So that tells us who are the ones spoken of in Revelation 19:14.

You said:
Exactly who is them in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. I understand the second part of the verse to be the tribulation saints, but who are these on the thrones who judgement was given if not the church? Also I am not talking about the beginning of the Trib, but the end. What is the role of the Church? From my understanding the Church will be reigning with Christ during the 1000 years. Jack Kelly says that the Church won't be on earth but in New Jersulam hovering above the earth. So where is the Church during this time? .



It looks like we agree on the second part of that verse, I apologize if I didn't understand what you were getting at the first time. I don't or can't speak with any authority on the subject, especially since we're not told "who" they are, or even how many thrones.
Are they the same as spoken of in Revelation 4:4?
Who are the twenty-four (24) elders in Revelation?

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Jack Kelley when replying to me. I already said I didn't agree with his view and I have posted 3 articles now that I agree with.

I believe the Bride(the Church) will be where ever the Groom(Jesus) is.

[Bobbi]

[QUOTE=ANY MINUTE;841953585]The way you wrote this post made me think that you were implying that Revelation 20:4 (....those beheaded for their witness...) and Revelation 19:14 (....the armies in heaven..) were the same group of people.

If you were comparing Rev.20:4, those who sat on the thrones, to the armies of Rev. 19:14, then I'm not sure I can help you. I don't know for sure who "they" are (seated on the thrones). There are many articles and commentaries on the topic with varying opinions. I lean towards The Apostles, spoken of in Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:28-30.

Revelation 19 7-8, The Marriage of the Lamb, tells us who(His wife, the Bride, the Church) is clothed in fine linen, clean and white. So that tells us who are the ones spoken of in Revelation 19:14.

You said:
Exactly who is them in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. I understand the second part of the verse to be the tribulation saints, but who are these on the thrones who judgement was given if not the church? Also I am not talking about the beginning of the Trib, but the end. What is the role of the Church? From my understanding the Church will be reigning with Christ during the 1000 years. Jack Kelly says that the Church won't be on earth but in New Jersulam hovering above the earth. So where is the Church during this time? .



It looks like we agree on the second part of that verse, I apologize if I didn't understand what you were getting at the first time. I don't or can't speak with any authority on the subject, especially since we're not told "who" they are, or even how many thrones.
Are they the same as spoken of in Revelation 4:4?
Who are the twenty-four (24) elders in Revelation?

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Jack Kelley when replying to me. I already said I didn't agree with his view and I have posted 3 articles now that I agree with.

I believe the Bride(the Church) will be where ever the Groom(Jesus) is.[/QUOTE

I'm not trying to argue with you I was just asking a question. Sorry, not the best at getting my wording right. But my thought is that the church would be with Jesus also so when people were saying the church would be in the New Jersulam hovering over the earth it didn't make sense.

[Any Minute]

[QUOTE=Bobbi;841953587I'm not trying to argue with you I was just asking a question. Sorry, not the best at getting my wording right. But my thought is that the church would be with Jesus also so when people were saying the church would be in the New Jersulam hovering over the earth it didn't make sense.[/QUOTE]


I'm sorry, it's difficult to "read" people on-line. It sounds like we are in agreement.

The reason I posted the 1 John3:2 passage is because I often see that used to help support the view of New Jerusalem coming down at the begining of the Millinnium, and somehow explains how we can forever be inhabitants of there and yet come and go at the speed of thought to earth while Christ reigns here as King for a thousand years.

Like I said, I'm not sold on that view as I don't see it in scripture as of yet.