Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect
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    Default Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    Does anyone here have advice on the best and simplest way to correct someone who holds to an Amillennial or preterist view?

    My daughter is dating a gentleman who comes from a Baptist background, used to believe pre-trib but has come to the conclusion that The Tribulation has already occured. I'm still trying to get out of him what he actually believes because so far it sounds like a mixed bag of theology. In our short conversations so far, he seems to hold to a form of replacement theology or the Church is spiritual Israel. My first step after prayer has been to listen to him and try to answer questions the best I can. Although I've personally come to the conclusion that R/T is wrong, trying to show others the error is more difficult.

    He seems to be well versed, studies scripture daily but so far is having trouble understanding that the Church and Israel are not the same. I believe he is a saved, born again believer but his theology concerns me. My daughter who has only been saved a few years holds to a dispensational pre-trib view but she has been challenged with defending the stance with someone who is well versed but incorrect imo. She has asked for our help and he was eager to speak with me about doctrine so I'm looking for advice from brothers and sisters who have dealt with simular situations.

    Where is the best place to start from? My first thought is to start with The Cross and salvation to make sure he has a firm grasp on that (I think he does) but his view on water baptism concerned me a little. What would be the next best place to show that Amillennialism is incorrect?

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    Default Re: Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    I would suggest by showing pre-Trib, pre-Mil IS correct. If you lay out the Scripture, ALL of it, in context, it is clear.

    Never try to show the lie of the lie; always show the truth of the truth.
    -------"You are not your own; you are bought with a price." 1 Corinthians 6:19b-20a

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    Default Re: Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfivefour View Post
    I would suggest by showing pre-Trib, pre-Mil IS correct. If you lay out the Scripture, ALL of it, in context, it is clear.

    Never try to show the lie of the lie; always show the truth of the truth.
    Yes, I think I see what your saying. Instead of going point by point trying to correct every inconsistancy, let the consistant truth stand on it's own. Just stating it is the correct position hasn't worked but I plan on spending more time with him and going through scripture with him.
    I just spoke with him, he's visiting today, and we have agreed to talk and share via e-mail. It's going to be a challenge but one the Lord
    must think we're ready for because I believe He has placed us in this situation for a reason.

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    Default Re: Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    There are plenty of articles from which to draw the truth on our main website: The Rapture of the Church
    -------"You are not your own; you are bought with a price." 1 Corinthians 6:19b-20a

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    Default Re: Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    Quote Originally Posted by ANY MINUTE View Post
    Does anyone here have advice on the best and simplest way to correct someone who holds to an Amillennial or preterist view?

    My daughter is dating a gentleman who comes from a Baptist background, used to believe pre-trib but has come to the conclusion that The Tribulation has already occured. I'm still trying to get out of him what he actually believes because so far it sounds like a mixed bag of theology. In our short conversations so far, he seems to hold to a form of replacement theology or the Church is spiritual Israel. My first step after prayer has been to listen to him and try to answer questions the best I can. Although I've personally come to the conclusion that R/T is wrong, trying to show others the error is more difficult.

    He seems to be well versed, studies scripture daily but so far is having trouble understanding that the Church and Israel are not the same. I believe he is a saved, born again believer but his theology concerns me. My daughter who has only been saved a few years holds to a dispensational pre-trib view but she has been challenged with defending the stance with someone who is well versed but incorrect imo. She has asked for our help and he was eager to speak with me about doctrine so I'm looking for advice from brothers and sisters who have dealt with simular situations.

    Where is the best place to start from? My first thought is to start with The Cross and salvation to make sure he has a firm grasp on that (I think he does) but his view on water baptism concerned me a little. What would be the next best place to show that Amillennialism is incorrect?
    With this person (especially since they seem to be fairly-well studied), I might start with how all of the 73 NT references to the word "Israel" mean "Israel" (and not "the Church"). They will try to insist that Galatians 6:16 "the Israel of God" means "the Church" (and therefore, the way they see it, the other times it is used it refers to "the Church" as well).

    Once he can get a good grasp on how "Israel" is "Israel" and "the Church" is "the Church," in Scripture, it seems you'll have a much easier time filling in the rest of the blanks... if or when you get that far. So that is where I'd start.



    Here's a pretty good article on that:

    "How is the Term Israel Used in the New Testament?"

    The Israel of God, the term "Israel" in the New Testament

    From the article:

    Galatians 6:16 - Paul’s reference to the “Israel of God” is the only reference used by all Covenant Theologians to prove that the Church is called Israel. This verse will be discussed in detail below
    The above list is the total times that “Israel” is mentioned in the New Testament and it is obvious even to Covenant Theologians that the vast majority of the times it refers to national ethnic Israel. In fact, only three passages are used by Covenant Theologians to try to prove their Church-equals-Israel equation. On two of these, Romans 9:6 and 11:26, they are not unanimous, for even some Covenant Theologians see these verses as speaking of national ethnic Israel. The only one verse on which all Covenant Theologians are unanimous is Galatians 6:16. This is the one and only verse that even comes close to saying what Covenant Theologians want it to say. Therefore, it will be given its own separate treatment.
    ... the conclusion is that the Church is never called, and is not, a “spiritual Israel” or a “new Israel.” The term “Israel” is either used of the nation or the people as a whole, or of the believing remnant [of Israel] within. It is never used of the Church in general or of Gentile believers in particular.

    Hope this helps a little.
    ftwspursfan and Any Minute like this.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    Thanks acceptedinthebeloved, I think that is the type of direction I'm looking for. That is a very good article and I will spend more time going through it today.

    I have many of the articles printed off from the main page already. He's familiar with the pre-trib position and he said he's not dogmatic in his rejection of it. To me, that leaves room for teaching and learning about the errors of his position.
    I'm going to leave the rapture timing alone for now and concentrate on showing the differences between the Church and Israel because that is where his confusion stems from.

    Our conversations were all over the place yesterday on many Bible topics and I focused on what we do agree on, so now I will try to narrow down and focus on individual positions that are held in error.

    He is a very interesting and intelligent young man, has a great passion for living for the Lord, is ex-millitary and college educated with a math major. Funny thing is, as we visited some of my family yesterday to help with some building projects (he was in awe of farm life ), he correctly noticed how their J.W. beliefs are wrong but doesn't realize that his own replacement theology is not much different than theirs.

    Thanks again Matt and AITB, feel free to give any other suggestions. If anyone feels moved to for him, his name is Brian.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Need help with showing an Amillennial view is incorrect

    Middletown Bible church - Know about our Lord Jesus Christ, Salvation, Sin, Truth and More

    Wow acceptedinthebeloved, what a link! I just went to the home page and discovered a wealth of information. Just what I was looking for and all in one place!
    I would almost consider moving to CT. to attend a church that taught like that. Of course having access to it all online is probably even better.

    I've got my Bible open on the desk and I'm gonna dig in to that site for awhile.

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